Am I being unreasonable?

[Skara]

D(**n)H was away last weekend on a boys jolly. That has meant I've looked after ds and dd (3 and 1) and the house and garden etc for 12 days on the trot without any help from him. When he was arranging it he was very quick to promise that to make up for it I'd get a lie in both days this weekend but now he's being all narky about it, making comments like 'well you'll be alright with your TWO lie ins' which I think is blooming unfair given that he was off last weekend in luxury surroundings while I got up at 5.30am with the children. Thoughts, anyone who is still up at this ridiculous hour? Am I entitled to my turn at having a relaxing weekend and if so, do I just ignore his carping or how do I handle it?

Thomcat, I think you've hit the nail on the head. It's me he's doing these things to, not the children. I think when I look back when they are in their late teens and some of this has blown over, I might shudder to think of what I nearly deprived them of just because I didn't want to do all the house work, cooking, etc. The irony is that if I left him, I'd still have it all to do and he would get away with doing even less!

I think leaving is not always an option in my sort of situation. If he was abusing me in a physical or overtly mental way, then staying wouldn't be an option. It would still be nice to find a solution to the problem. I suppose it's a bit like having a delinquent child. Leaving them is not an option either, but you still need a solution to their behavioural problems.

I have to confess that I'm not necessarily a disciple of the "I wouldn't put up with it" school. As it happens, I do 100% of the cooking, food shopping, laundry etc etc at home and have also contributed equally to the household coffers and done an equally stressful job. There are a multitude of reasons behind it but basically, it's what works for us as a family.

My hubby is a fantastic father and certainly does his fair share of childcare and is more than happy to let me have a lie in and so on. I'm not really interested in who does what on a chore by chore basis, I'm far keener on ensuring that we have the maximum quality time together as a family and that given the constraints, we are all reasonably happy with our responsibilities. That's not to say that I don't feel desperately sorry for some of the women here who are so clearly unhappy with their situation.

very interesting points here. In my idealistic days I would also have said "no way, I'm out of here" if the relationship was very one-sided, however since the birth of DS things have changed. I think that my perspective has changed dramatically. Previously I thought that I needed a reason to stay in a relationship, now I realise with the advent of DS that I really need a reason to go.
The result of realising this has been that I've made more of an effort with DP, I've stayed to talk when previously I would have stormed out the door, and I must say I've been quite surprised/impressed with the dividends that it has to pay. My relationship is much stronger as a result and I am much happier.
I don?t think that we have the right to say ?leave him, I wouldn?t put up with this? unless we HAVE put up with it and come through the other side. DP was quite lazy and uninvolved with DS for a long time and I really felt taken advantage of ? things have changed now and it?s much more equal, but I still don?t know that I would have gone if things had not changed. I owe more to DS than that, and I do believe that children need both parents and I don?t have the right to deny it to him unless there is clearly no alternative. I know there are situations when there is no alternative, but at the moment, unequal sharing of household tasks does not qualify as a reason to leave (although it does qualify as a reason to be totally peeved and a situation that should not continue although what the solution is I don?t know).

Why oh why oh why do these nice threads and DISCUSSIONS always seem to turn nasty and schoolyardy? Harrumph.

I couldn't wait to get to the end of all the posts to add my own meanderings but then got that oh for f**ks sake feeling again. Far too many spikey debating society clashes for my liking.

I definatley do more than my DP, but when I feel I'm doing more than I'm happy with I have a word and we reset the scales. At the moment I'm having a 'being him' week and not putting anything away and not going food shopping etc! It's all good humored I'm just letting him see what it would be like if I was as lazy as he can be, how uncomfortable it is living in a messy house with no food in the cupboard! I'm quite enjoying it at the moment and see the appeal in being lazy for a bit!!!! Just a little experiment on my part!
I can put up with 70/30 but wouldn't put up with 80/20 but he wouldn't expect me to and it wouldn't get that bad. At the end of the day he's a bit lazy, not a monster who treats me like shit and controls my life. He's a great dad and a great friend and bottom line is being a single parent scares me, I don't want that for DD, me, or him. A bit of housework not getting done, not enough lie ins is no reason, personally for me, to leave me young daughter without a father.
God I hope no-one finds offence in anything I've said, I'm not refering to anyones post here, just a little comment about what I would put up with and a comment about keeping a family together.

Oliveoil if you just don't get involved in the shoolyardy bits thre are some interesting issues on here and I'd like to know what you think about stuff, come back!!!!!

Is it safe to come out?

Well here gos: My dh is an absolute star, well trained by his mum and me, does all the cooking and takes turns in the lie ins. He also gets on my nerves quite frequently as he is a moaning b***d but then you can't have everything. Peaks and troughs as my mum would say.

Must go as I have been given a shopping list by dh BY TEXT if you please, to go to Tescos when it is v busy at lunchtime, thanks dh.

pph, if you are still reading this thread, i want to say that i hate it when things get very heated on mumsnet as they did between us last night, and i'm sorry for my part in escalating the temperature. i think we will have to agree to differ on this one.

the "voyeur" comment galvanised me with anger, and as a result i didn't bother to make my points in a more balanced and conciliatory way.

i know you have made kind and helpful comments to many mumsnetters since you have been posting, including to me on more than one occasion.

i usually enjoy reading your posts and hope we can exchange our views more amicably on other subjects in future.

i meant to post this earlier but pesky work has kept me away from mumsnet this morning!

www - you made some interesting points in response to some of my comments. sorry, i feel too drained by this thread to respond. unfortunately, it probably won't be too long before this subject comes up again. maybe we can this discuss this again then.

droile - thanks for your comments i'm sorry your situation hasn't improved. fwiw, as jasper said last night, if you do decide to go, you give every impression of someone who would be able to cope admirably. hope it doesn't come to that and that you manage to find a modus vivendi which works better for you. all the best.

re the "not putting up with it" aspect. I would consider it a great lack of respect to me if my DH did not pull his weight

re the "not putting up with it" aspect. I would consider it a great lack of respect to me if my DH did not pull his weight

Carriemac, relationships are all different. The respect my DH has for me (and for that matter my own self-respect) has absolutely nothing to do with what percentage of household chores we each happen to carry out. For us, it just isn't that big a deal in the scheme of things.

Carriemac - would you consider you doing say 70% of day to day chores a lack of respect by your DH/DP and would you leave him beacuse of it?
People have said they wouldn't put up with it, I'm trying to understand what they wouldn't put up with and what they'd do about it.

Hi Bk, don't worry, I wasn't expecting a response, I was just trying to disagree with you in the nicest possible way - I hate rows on mumsnet too and I don't want to argue with you or anyone else. I do think this whole subject is interesting and the questions you asked in your post on Sunday at 7.54pm are interesting and worth asking. Ikwym about not feeling up to responding/arguing too - I've been sneaking in here and not posting today since I don't want to argue with anyone or contribute further particularly either! here, have a smiley

Bossykate, I agree with WWW, your questions on Sunday were really interesting and deserve pursuing:

'what do you think accounts for this imbalance? how did it arise? is it to do with relative earning power or with culturally defined roles? or just that men and women have different skills and/or priorities?'

I've spent many a long hour with friends pondering this one. Some seem to think priorities play a big part, but that's no excuse IMO. Laziness plays a big part too, but in my case with all the aggro he gets about it, it would be easier and less time consuming for my DH to just do the things he avoids - he'd certainly have a nicer life.

I think there's something deeper and more psychologically complicated at the root of it. A lack of respect has been mentioned and I think that's a lot to do with it. But WHY? Where does the lack of respect come from?

I know that books have been attempted on this issue, but none have really covered it adequately for me. There is a good book in this for anyone who can be bothered to write it. Ironically, some of those who have written about it have been slated as whingeing harridans by other women!

I dont think respect is to do with the % of household chores, I think not acknowleging the amount of work u do (SAHM or not)and sharing the burden ie by lie ins and time off to yourself etc shows a lack of respect. i seem to be rambling but i really think we should cherish and respect each partners contribution to a marriage. For example if your DH gets up to the kids at the weekend he should do so as quietly as you would, feed them properly and keep the place tidy, just as u would, otherwise what is the point?

Ok, I seem to seen as a bit smug. So here's my reasoning. To be honest, if my dh did some of the things described here, it would be far worse for me than if he was having an affair. I believe some of these actions are extremely hostile - passive aggression, but aggressive nonetheless. They DO bespeak a lack of respect to me. They strongly imply that he is better than she and more deserving of such pleasant things as more free time, more sleep etc etc. Nobody would be saying that it would be wrong to deprive a child of its father if he'd been shagging around or hitting you. I personally would find his behaving like my enemy in my home as bad or even worse. So yes, if he really resisted all my efforts at negotiation and wouldn't go to counselling and didn't change, I would leave the relationship. It would be intolerable to me and I would be too angry and resentful to feel any room for love. If my partner said he would behave one way - knowing how important it was to me, but then totally changed - I would feel utterly betrayed. And just like a woman whose husband had betrayed her by seeing another woman I would think very seriously about ending the relationship. I KNOW it isn't good for children to live in angry, resentful relationships, and that's what mine would be in these circumstances. I'm not everyone. My choice wouldn't be everyones. But that's what I mean by not putting up with it. And on a less dramatic note, I certainly wouldn't facilitate it. Ie if he never got up with OUR child, I certainly wouldn't tiptoe round the house. It would be full blast Today programme and ds encouraged to do his best squealing from 6.30 onwards.

Aloha, I completely agree with you. I am one of the 'I wouldn't put up with it' squad. Going back to one of the earlier posts, some poor mumsnetter said her partner called her a selfish b*h which I thought sounded awful. If dp ever called me names under any circumstances I would leave with ds. With regards to the household chores, I find it quite important that dp pulls his weight, especially as we both work and would feel that he was completely disrespectful if he didn't help out.

Before I had ds, I was in a relationship for 3 years with a complete idiot. He messed me around, cheated on me and was emotionally and phsyically abusive. At the time I was a wreck but 8 years down the line I have grown to know that I would never put up with anything below what I expect again with a man. Yes, its harder to say what I would and wouldn't put up with after having a child with dp. But if I felt disprespected with my dp now, it would eat away at me and wreck who I am and then how could our relationship be happy?

Don't get me wrong; I'm not knocking anybody here who chooses to stay with their partners despite feeling unhappy about their situation. It is obviously a very personal decision and totally your own business. I am simply saying that perhaps we are all able to put up with different levels of 'unhappiness' in our relationships and some couples find it easier to plod along together.

Nice to see you back, droile and thanks everyone for getting stuck in here- it's really made me think as I have definitely been guilty of "I wouldn't put up with it" comments that haven't been as tactful and well-considered as I'd like.

Having said that, great post, aloha. It sums up exactly how I personally would feel about some of the situations described here. In fact I'd almost rather my partner had an affair than routinely expected me to do all the washing up because my unhappiness and misery would be comparable- honestly.

I was also considering your posts, bells, and I think I definitely have something to learn about not getting too petty about who does what in our house! However, and I hope this isn't too personal- please tell me to get lost if it is- I did wonder what you thought about the messages your kids might be getting? Isn't there a danger that they might watch their lovely, competent, hard working, caring mummy do all the housework and their lovely, competent, hard working, caring daddy do none and conclude that only women can cook and clean? That they needn't expect help from men in this endeavour, perhaps because men are incapable of such work? I must admit I'm very passionate about my boys not getting this message- I really want them to be able to fend for themselves and so don't want them to think it's ok not to pull their weight around the house. I think the best way of getting the message through is to ensure they drink it in by watching daddy at the housework, cooking etc. I think I might be even more passionate if I had a daughter, though.

It'd be interesting to hear what Tom and other blokes think of all this, I think.

Having experienced the pain of finding out that my DH did have an affair I can assure you that I would much rather have had someone who was useless around the house, had a lie in every day and left his dirty socks lying about it ..... but we are all different and will put up with different things.

I think the important thing that mothers of sons can learn from all this is to 'house train' them thoroughly - I absolutely loathe the image of the indulgent mum smiling as her son (or daughter for that matter) brings a pile of washing home from uni & thinks it perfectly acceptable for someone else to do their washing & ironing. And let's face it, loads of mothers are prepared to do this. WHY?

Has anyone read Jenni Murray's new book about mothers relationships with sons, the intensity of it all, I only read the review but it sounds like very interesting reading?

Aloha, I also think your post was good and I have often thought an affair would be more tolerable. The problem we always seem to come back to, though, is that these things are a problem to ME, not to my children (unless they cause alterations in my behaviour or in the atmosphere of the home). At the moment, it seems to be a straight choice between my happiness and theirs, and they win. If things become so strained that we all have to live in a bad atmosphere then yes, I agree with you, it would be better for them if I left. But as things are not yet at that point constantly, it's my reaction to his behaviour that will predict the ultimate outcome.

Scummymummy, I am also concerned about the messages the kids are getting about who does the housework, etc. Like Batters, DH works very long hours and I work 3 days/wk, so it's difficult for them to see a different picture.

Scummy, believe me, it's really quite easy to give a daughter the message that housework isn't women's work

Sorry Lindy, our posts crossed, I didn't mean to be flippant about the affair. I've experienced that in a previous relationship and although it was hurtful, it didn't seem to be anything to do with me personally at all, IYSWIM.

I'd like to read Jenni Murray's book too. I only caught a snippet of a review and thought it seemed to be saying that we shouldn't come down so hard on men. I think they should be walloped even harder, but I agree that we shouldn't pre-judge or condemn boys just because they will one day become men and do sack all around the house.

Lindy - they like to feel needed and valid, I guess (indulgent mothers). Possibly more so when kids have left home and bring washing back to do. I know my mother 'complains' when all her kids are at home, but she loves it, gives her a purpose which she feels she lacks at other times.