Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I am the OW and I am a mess

114 replies

whatthehelldoidonow · 01/07/2010 14:36

Ok I am going to be as brief as possible but there is quite a back story here and I am sorry for name changing but I post regularly and I'm fairly recognisable and being outed is one additional problem I could do without.

I don't really know why I am posting anyway I I just feel such a mess and I realise I am going to get a tough time - i think that is probably what I need. at the very least I need to get it off my chest.

So ten years ago I fell in love with my boss. He is ten years older than me and when we met had a young family. The connection between us was very strong and for months I tried to kid myself we were just friends. We weren't. I know there is no justification for my behaviour so I wont try.

We had a 'relationship' for 18mths. I tried to stop it on several occassions but was never strong enough - no contact only ever lasted a couple of weeks. Eventually I left my job and moved to another town ceasing all contact. I got married had a baby and life was good.

After a couple of years without contact we met at an industry event and I am not proud to say we slept together, thereafter we had sporadic contact as "friends" although the reality is it wa very much an emotional affair. During this time I had a DC, left my husband who had cheated on me (good old karma biting me on the arse!) and my DC died.

I returned to work at the end of last year and inevitably bumped into him (although we are now in different companies) All the old feelings were there and whilst we once again tried to do the "just friends" thing our relationship resumed. He has been enormously supportive and has made me happy - at least in the short term. In the long term I feel crap: I am disgusted at my behaviour and know I am going to get hurt and end up miserable (lets face it I already am).

So now here I am in a mess from which I don't seem to be strong enough to remove myself.

I know I need to walk away but I love him (it sounds so pathetic doesn't it?!) I literally can't think straight. the rest of my life is suffering and yet I feel utterly miserable about the prospect of not having him in my life.

What do I do????

OP posts:
WhenwillIfeelnormal · 02/07/2010 11:27

Hmmm..I think the 6 week secondment is a good move, but given that this has been rumbling on for years, I don't think that an absence of that duration in itself will fix this.

In all affairs, attached parties need to justify to themselves why they are doing this. Very often, the justification they provide to the affair partner is not the same as the one they are telling themselves and even then, there is often a dissonance between what they are telling themselves and the truth. The affair partner is therefore often 2 whole steps away from the truth.

So, he was telling you that he was staying because he loved his DC and they were a family and implying that he had settled for "good enough" in his marriage. He was also telling you that he loved you.

He might have been telling himself that he loved his wife, had some feelings for you and that this was a fairly low-risk affair, especially when you were married and had just as much to lose as he. You have proven over the years that you're never going to rock the boat for him or cause hassle or difficulty. So for him, this represented a low-risk opportunity to have a relatively undemanding affair. He would also have been comforting himself with the fact that he made no promises to you and so can't be "blamed" by you.

The truth on the other hand might be very different. His connection to his wife is very strong and he simply cannot imagine life without her. He loves her and would stay with her, whether there were children still at home or not. But he is a selfish man who feels entitled to a distraction every few years and since he is ultimately lazy, resuming things with you doesn't require much effort, since chances are, he will meet up with you every few years. When he does, you feel familiar and warm and he says "why not?" He gets all the good feelings of being adored again, different sex for a while and no demands.

The massive clue to this man's true feelings for you is that this last time, he should have realised that you were in a terribly vulnerable place, looking for a distraction yourself from your grief. If he had genuine feelings for you, he should have stepped away. Instead, he chose like you did, to resume an affair that is not going anywhere and is actually bringing you more misery on top of your grief.

He doesn't love you enough to let you go.

This man is also deluding himself that since he has been "honest" about your future together and has never disparaged his wife, he is still a decent sort. I agree with the poster who said that you in turn have deluded yourself that if you don't hear about his marriage and his wife, you can pretend in part that they don't exist. But you have perhaps been deluding yourself that this was an honourable thing to do - not discussing his wife and marriage.

His wife and children need to be humanised for you. You really need to step in that woman's shoes and imagine how it might feel. She has been robbed of her choices for years through this deception. She has been suffering unimaginable hurts by her husband sharing his intimacy. Every hour spent with you is an hour taken away from that family.

Now unless he is a serial philanderer in between bouts with you, that woman will have noticed a change in him whenever it is back on with you. She might not be able to put her finger on what it is this time, but there will be an air of familiarity to how he is behaving. If she asks out of concern, he might tell her he is stressed at work. But she is suffering - and don't ever delude yourself that she isn't, or hasn't, over the years.

Take the advice about how to detach from this man and ask him to honour it too. Tell him you hope he makes it up to his wife and finally treats her with some dignity and respect. Since he is at heart a moral coward though, I doubt he'd ever tell her the truth about her life for the past 10 years. That is her misfortune, but I hope that karma will catch up with him in the end.

Use the 6 weeks to detach and then get that counselling. It is vital that you are honest this time with the counsellor. Get to the bottom of why you have been drawn into deceit over such a long period of time. Resolve never to be that person again.

pluperfect · 02/07/2010 11:47

"this last time, he should have realised that you were in a terribly vulnerable place, looking for a distraction yourself from your grief. If he had genuine feelings for you, he should have stepped away. Instead, he chose like you did, to resume an affair that is not going anywhere and is actually bringing you more misery on top of your grief."

Yes, yes, excellent point, whenwillIfeelnormal!

whatthehelldoidonow, is this making him look less attractive?

By the way, you have definitely made a good step in telling other people about this all, as it shows you want to see him differently. Otherwise, you would be continuing to hide his story, out of fear that people would realise what he was like... and that you would realise what he was like!

IsGraceAvailable · 02/07/2010 12:04

Yes, yes, whatthe. Your wiser self must be breaking through the fog a little bit. Welcome it and congratulate yourself!

You realise, I think, how unpleasantly he used your grief? Worked your vulnerability to keep you malleable.

AnyFucker · 02/07/2010 14:32

OP, I have re-read your thread today and I feel a bit tearful for you.

I really hope you are OK, and can see a brighter future ahead for you.

All the best x

whatthehelldoidonow · 02/07/2010 14:39

It probably is unimportant but to just wanted to clarify a few things.

I don't think he did "fall" for me easily. We were (I genuinely believed) friends for a considerable time before I realised there was more to it and subsequently fell in love with him which in turn occurred before anything physical developed. Looking back he says he always found me attractive but fell in love as our friendship developed and we realised how much we had in common. He says he loved me before he had even kissed me. The time frame for this was 12+ mths.

WhenwillI I didn't intend to give the impression that he had told me he settled for his wife when they married. That is not what he said and I assume they were happy when they married and it was something that he wanted. He has however told me, explicitly, that he is now "settling" for what he has.

Also the first 18mt phase of our affair I was single (although I was dating to an extent but certainly no one serious and noone was given the impression that I was monogomous)

Incidentally I have never given him any indication that I want more than what I get from him.

Anyway thanks again for giving me such honest advice. I didn't expect anything other than a total flaming and I appreciate that you've all actually tried to help me.

OP posts:
whatthehelldoidonow · 02/07/2010 14:41

Thanks Anyfucker. I always appreciate your honest advice on threads and think (this huge mess aside!) we probably have a bit in common. I reckon in another life we'd probably get on.

Anyway (weirdly) it means a lot that you don't think I am beyond redemtion

I'll figure this out I am sure.

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 02/07/2010 14:48

Hey, nobody is beyond redemption

You do sound like a good person who has got herself in an almighty mess.

AnyFucker · 02/07/2010 14:49

Am wondering now if I "know" you under your other name...

Not that it matters, tbh

MorrisZapp · 02/07/2010 15:28

I respect your thoughtful posts WWIFN, but as always I disagree with your main point - that the wife should be the OW's problem or concern.

This issue as I see it is between the OP and the man she's having a relationship with.

At present, the relationship isn't good enough as it is lacking the commitment OP wants, but if he left his wife maybe it could be.

My parents both had affairs and have now been happily married for decades to 'new' partners who they weren't initially married to.

I dunno. I just think that the word 'wife' doesn't automatically mean 'wonderful person whose innate goodness strangers must recognise, and who must never be left by her partner'.

OP I wish you the very best, although I can't see a happy solution here. I think you might just have to face life without this man if he will not leave his wife, and the chances aren't great going on past evidence are they.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 02/07/2010 16:04

Yes and we will always disagree with eachother about this MZ and perhaps comes from our differing views about a duty of care to strangers and society generally.

But just to clarify, I do not equate "wife" or "spouse" with "wonderful person who must never be left" - I equate it with "human being who should never be deceived" - there is a difference.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 02/07/2010 16:33

Oh and OP, I didn't misunderstand about the "settling" bit. Of course he is saying he feels that way now, because it contributes to his delusion that he is an honourable man, falling on his sword for the sake of his children - and his desire not to hurt their mother. It screams of "poor me" and puts him in victim mode. What he won't acknowledge though is that he has been impoverishing his family's lives for years.

I'd bet he didn't think he was "settling" before he met up with you again, if he even does now, for that matter. But from your point of view, there's nowhere to go with that statement, is there?

Believe me, people as selfish as him are not honourable, tortured souls who do the right thing. They stay with their wives for one reason only - they love her more than they have ever loved an affair partner. The moment they love someone else more, they vote with their feet, with very little concern for the spouse and DCs left behind.

secunda · 02/07/2010 16:38

"They stay with their wives for one reason only - they love her more than they have ever loved an affair partner"

Not just this I think. There is also not wanting to upset the children, not wanting to lose half their assets and not wanting all the hassle of a divorce. After all, there are a lot of women on here who aren't that happy with their marriage but keep with it for the above reasons. But it's pretty powerful stuff, as powerful as love (whatever that means). Anyway, if he says he's not going to leave then he's not, so it's pointless to speculate on his motives or how much he loves his wife

Magalyxyz · 02/07/2010 16:41

I'm really sorry that you lost your child. I don't think you'd be in this situation if you felt stronger. You know it's not good for you. You don't deserve more pain. I hope you can walk away from him.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 02/07/2010 16:54

It does matter secunda, because it won't help the OP (or any affair partner for that matter) if they remain locked in some fantasy that this was a decent man who was only staying for the children - and sacrificed "true love" on the altar of parenthood. This gives an inherently selfish person way too much credit. OW and OM stand a much better chance of moving on with their lives if they accept a bitter truth - s/he doesn't love me enough.

If this man did love enough, he would be telling himself that his now teenaged children would adjust in time, that since OP is in a well-paid job, they'd be okay for money.

One of the reasons I am emphasising this is because I can see a time when this bloke is finally found out by his wife, who kicks him out. At which point he might turn to our OP, telling her that it was his choice to leave.

Eurostar · 02/07/2010 21:56

Wish you strength to escape from this whatthehell. It's like breaking any addiction, you can do it and in the longterm hopefully the gains will be much better but in the short term your pain will hit hard.

WWIFN - as MZ, I agree with about 90% of what you say but sometimes I think you let your personal experience encroach too much.

"They stay with their wives for one reason only - they love her more than they have ever loved an affair partner"

Agree with Secunda on this one. There are men I worked with (suppose you'd mostly class them as "alpha" types) who are very clear that they stay with their wives because it suits them to be married, they cite their children, their assets, their lifestyle, their profile in the community as reasons to stay married while continuing affairs. There are many people out there who are led by utility rather than love. Some enjoy controlling their partner.

secunda · 02/07/2010 22:00

But it's not a fantasy. Staying out of self-interest and for financial reasons is even less honourable than staying out of love, surely!

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 02/07/2010 23:44

I have also worked with alpha males like the ones you cite. And they are hardly likely to admit that actually, they really love their wives. Because that would make them look like saps in front of their equally wankerish cronies.....

The "fantasy" I referred to Secunda is that this man is a really good Dad who puts his children before true love. This seems "honourable" to the OW and it's much easier to convince herself that while she cannot compete with children, she could compete with the wife. Since I think that's invariably not true, I don't think that this helps her move on.

Having said all of that, I do think some selfish people of both sexes stay married because of the financial benefits - or to avoid the financial penalities of divorce. If OW/OM won the lottery, they would be off like a shot, as one female poster on here was once brave enough to admit.

librium · 02/07/2010 23:52

"They stay with their wives for one reason only - they love her more than they have ever loved an affair partner"

I cannot let this pass.
This is not true .In fact it is so very wide of the mark.
The staying with wife is a lifestyle and kids package.

Many men stay in marriages with wives they love considerably less(sometimes not at all) than their lover for the sake of their children/overall package.

MZ I agree 100%

secunda · 03/07/2010 00:03

Yeah, WWIFN you just keep twisting it round to prove that men always love their wives the most. You can't say that's always the case.

For myself, if I wasn't 100% happy with DP, and there was someone else I adored, there would be a lot of factors holding me back from leaving, like the stability and happiness of the kids, stress, money etc. You can't separate them out. It's a lot to risk for something that might just end up going the same way as your marriage i.e. fading to 'meh'. You might as well stick with the OK situation you had in the first place and keep all the above things. Thinking that love always conquers all is a bit naive.

librium · 03/07/2010 01:52

secunda those are wise words indeed.

I think that is exactly what hinders in love lovers from striking out to be together- the idea it might degenerate into the same old meh they are currently in.

I CANNOT relate to this idea that married men having affairs ultimately love their wives more than their lovers.

Some might.
I have never met any.
It's not even logical.
Why have an affair with all its risks with someone you love LESS that your wife/husband? (works both ways)

Tortington · 03/07/2010 01:54

hes clearly a shit. and your not doing so well on that front yourself. he has a wife and a family - back off lady. get your house in order, find a fella who wants to be with you and not your cunt and have a nice life.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 03/07/2010 02:38

Really Librium? You've never met a man who had an affair who loved his affair partner less? And you don't think it's even logical?

As if all affairs involve love in the first place! Now that really is a delusion - that men always love the affair partner in the first place

kickassangel · 03/07/2010 02:48

if you really have such a strong connection, he'd leave his family for you. if not, he's deluding you & you're deluding you.

i think you've had to deal with some v painful things in life, for which, full sympathy (genuinely). however, that doesn't mean that you should allow others, or yourself, to ruin the rest of your life.

leave, don't look back. if he loves you, he'll come running. otherwise, he isn't your to have.

IsGraceAvailable · 03/07/2010 07:08

I've also known long-term couples who are married to other people. They invariably say they love their spouse & their affair partner in different ways. I wouldn't settle for it, and nor would most people I think. But they do. Not saying it's right or wrong, and I do realise their DHs / DWs might have an opinion! Just that it's unrealistic to assume every couple is the same, or even that all couples have the same values.

Whatthe, the above doesn't apply to you, does it? You're not in a 'steady' affair, you really are getting the leftovers from somebosy else's marriage. And you're suffering for it. I think you absolutely have to make something happen, or you'll still be suffering in 25 years' time

librium · 03/07/2010 11:48

no I dont think ALL affairs , or all marriages involve love in the first place

Swipe left for the next trending thread