Rejected by my MIL

[Janstar]

Hi everyone

This is my first posting on mumsnet, I just so need someone to talk to and some feedback. My DH and I have been through so much in the last few months.

I have two daughters from a previous relationship, and back in Sept my eldest confessed that her father and his partner had been running an internet business with porno sites and video sales - all from the house where they live and my daughters had been visiting alternate weekends. We had to stop the visits, and only have meetings in restaurants with my DH to chaperone, but my ex applied to the court for more contact. As you could expect his statement was full of lies to try and paint me in a bad light.

My husband had been made redundant the same week we found all this out. We had grand plans to do up our house and use the redundancy money to start a new life with our own business. But the legal costs over these months ate all the money away and my DH is back at work now. (Thank goodness he was wanted!).

To discover that my daughter had known all this for two years before telling us was horrible. She did not want to cause trouble but she was only 11 when she found out. What a strain on her!

Neither daughters want to see their father any more, but we have been put through months of worry and expense, and have been interviewed by various officials as if we were on trial ourselves. The case is still progressing but looks well for us at this stage.

In January I broke my leg on the ice and could not walk for three months, and my poor daughters had so much to do to help me. My DH and I have a little boy of 2 and so there is a lot to do. My eldest daughter fell ill with physical symptoms the doctor diagnosed as stess in the end, and missed a lot of school. Then one day she had a big fight with her school friends and came home and swallowed the contents of the medicine cabinet. I spent three days in hospital with her, she is fully recovered but still depressed. I cannot persuade her to accept a course of therapy, although two psychotherapists have recommended it, but have told me that to force her would do more harm than good.

I sent my MIL an email a few weeks ago explaining what we were trying to contend with, and asking for some support. I did not receive a reply. When I saw her at last, she attacked me fiercly, saying that my email had been a load of s**t, that it was the most self-pitying drivel she had ever read, and that she did not understand what I wanted her to do.

I said, 'be like a mother, give advice, give support.' She told me that she is not my mother, and that at 42 I shouldn't need one. That I should shut up and get on with it, and grow up. She also accused my DH of being selfish and only caring about himself, which I could not believe. He is a wonderful son. He always phones her every week for a chat, pops in, treats her to meals out and lovely gifts on her birthday and other occasions, and sent her on a lovely holiday for her 60th birthday last year. I don't know another son who is so generous and caring. He is just as wonderful as a husband.

I did not mean to sound complaining to her, but I wanted to tell her my situation, in the hope that we could have conversations that are real and some kind of a mother/daughter relationship. My own mother was an alcoholic who died many years ago, and when I married my husband I was thrilled that now I might actually have a mother to share things with. I have tried really hard to build a good friendship with her, making a fuss of her on mother's day, cooking nice meals for her and my FIL, inviting them to join us on holidays and days out, but she has never really made any effort to talk to me in a way that reveals anything about her inner self.

I feel that she is so stoical that she cannot bear it if I am my usual open self, to her it seems self-centred. But as she spoke to me it was as if the floodgates opened and a stream of pure venom came out of her mouth. It hurt so much to find out that she felt that way. She was totally dismissive of us and our problems, as if she did not care a jot what we were going through. She implied that it was our fault that my daughter had taken the overdose.

She has never been like this with us before although there have been many times where I have felt unfriendly vibes. My husband is stunned, he doesn't even want to try talking to her. I'm afraid that there is something behind her behaviour that is hurting her so badly that she couldn't control her normally impeccable temper.

I don't know what, if anything, to do or say or think. I am worried for her and for my husband. I am also feeling bereft of the mother I hoped for, as if two mothers have now rejected me. I so needed a mother just now.

I am sorry to be so long and boring.

!!! I think for the time being you should just step aside from her. You have been through a hellish time and the last thing you need is to be worrying about someone who is going to abuse you. Look after your own family now, your husband and kids who are actually there for you. You dont need to be taking on board another soul draining situation. It must be hard for you wanting a mother, but she is obviously not going to fill this role. Look at the things you have got and the love that you can take from that to help you through this nightmare! Maybe she just feels really upset about everything and doesnt know how to handle it. If that is the case she will come round and start to open up a bit more, maybe even apologise. If that doesnt happen build on other relationships they can be just a rewarding. Your husband will have to start building bridges too, its not all down to you to sort that relationship out. I really feel for you and cant imagine what you have been going through,good luck !!

Hi Janstar, I'm sorry you are having such a hard time of things, families can be a source of so much stress.I really can't think of any reason she would be so nasty towards you, unless as you say there is something going on in her life that you are unaware of. Maybe she is stressed about something (no excuse for treating you like this i know, but maybe an explanation)
I have never been in a situation like this before, but if it was me I would let things die down for a while before attempting to talk to her, if she is dealing with something of her own, pushing it might make the situation worse.
But I would try to talk to her eventually, or get your husband to talk to her. I would just explain that the things she said to you were hurtful and unecessary, and that she really upset you with her comments.
Unfortunately I would also accept that this woman is never going to be the mother figure you would have liked, it would seem that she doesn't want this type of relationship with you. Which is sad but it is obviously something she is not prepared or able to do.
I really hope things get better for you soon, but I would rely on friends and your husband for love and support, these people will not let you down and upset you like this.
All the best
Thinking of you

I can't explain to you how wonderful it feels just to have some words of support. I am crying.

Ahhh don't cry Janstar!
Do something nice for yourself (if you can!) Pamper yourself for a while, and cheer yourself up! A big bar of chocolate always does it for me! You'll feel better soon
all the best
Vici xx

Dont know about you but i let one thing after another pile up without crying, thinking i never will be able to. Then when i do, it all comes out!!! I usually feel a bit better after, kind of relieved, like i can start again! Hope your not too unhappy, your on your way to feeling a bit better if you can start sharing your troubles! Take Care

Hi janstar, I'm so sorry to hear the times you are going through.

How old is your daughter, am I right in thinking she is in her early teens? I took an overdose when I was 15 and whilst me mother was a tower of strength my father reacted almost exactly like your MIL, accusing me of attention seeking, emotional blackmail and then turning round and saying that everything I was feeling I was making up.

I cut him out of my life for several years until a) he started to see me as a real person and b) I was strong enough to deal with the crap that still occasionaly comes out of his mouth. But it took until my 4th overdose to realise that trying to keep him in my life was wrong.

You and your family do not need to have her in your lives. It would be nice if she were and were supportive, but some one who reacts like that will just suck out the strength you need to help each other through. Don't give her a second thought, I know its hard, but you really have to be tough. As someone who has plumbed the depths of depression it was the unconditional love of my mum that kept me going and it was my fathers treatment of me that showed her, finally, the man she was married to. They divorced when I was 17.

If your daughter is not ready to talk, professionally or otherwise, then you will just have to accept it and make sure that she knows the option is there. I really feel for her and hope that she can start picking up the pieces. I reaslied that the times I had attempted suicide each one was a murdering of myself and I had to start again, finding out who I was because a on those days I had spiritually died. But it is possible!!! I wouldn't dream of ever hurting myself again, I kinda like me now!! With all that has gone on with her dad and stuff she must so want to run away from her life, change her life. Just be different.

I'm gonna stop ranting now!!! But my thoughts are with you, and keep that MIL away until you have the strength to deal with her, if you want to deal with her. She isn't your priority right now!

Thanks so much all of you. Thank you Pie for the insight for my daughter's feelings. Any more on that subject would be greatly appreciated. Sometimes it seems all I can do is be here for her, but I was doing that before and it didn't stop her from feeling desperate.

Oh Janster, It is so sad that you have taken the trouble to really open up to your MIL and she has reacted so negatively! I'm afraid I don't have any advice, but plenty of cyber tea and biscuits and very real sympathy!

I am the sort of person who would, as ForestFly suggests, completely shut her out and focus on my family unit, but of course, your personality may not find that an acceptable route. Whatever you do, I hope you find the strength you need and that your dd feels able to seek any help that would help her - but maybe, resolving the access issue wither her father may take away some of her problems..?

All the best.

Janstar - sorry to hear you're having such a tough time. Would you find it helpful to talk to a counsellor or therapist to help you through it - to play a bit of a mother role - and perhaps to show your daughter that it helps, it might encourage her to consider it.

I'd take a step back from the MIL thing and concentrate on your lovely husband and children. At times like these I do think emergency surgery is in order - amputation in your MIL's case and quarentine in your ex husband's!

What I'm trying to say is cut as much of the madness out of your life as possible and help your family focus on the good things.

With the depression thing, is your daughter on any medication? This could help her in the short term until she feels she can start to look at her stress and depression. Talking can be very very hard. You probably have a good idea about why she is depressed - she probably feels responsible for the situation, that things are her fault and that she isn't in control of anything in her life. And of course being depressed means she's causing you more worry, which makes her feel guilty - and on, and on. I suggest you try to reassure her that it is natural, perhaps even right, certainly OK to feel depressed after going through what she's been through, that she's doing amazingly well, that she's great and you love her.

Hi Janstar. I agree - forget about your MIL and concentrate on your own family. It's probably pointless and a waste of time and energy trying to work out what is going on with her. I'd leave the relationship with her but let your DH build his own bridges if he wants to. I'm sorry about your mum too but it doesn't look like MIL wants the substitute job...

I hope you don't mind me saying this, but whilst I appreciate that your ex and his partner were/are running a dodgy (illegal? You don't say, so I'm not sure) porn business (and I don't approve), was it affecting your daughters? Surely they didn't see anything and I'm assuming from what you say that your daughters weren't involved in any way? In which case I don't see that you should have cut contact necessarily, although I'm aware that I may have missed something here and maybe I don't have all the facts? Why don't they want to see their father? How long is it since they've seen him? When will the court case resolve this? Please don't answer these questions if you don't want to though. Anyway, it all sounds horrible and my sympathy.

I'm sorry your daughter tried to take an overdose. Do you think she really wanted to kill herself? Sorry to come across as amateur psychiatrist, it's just that a school friend did this at 14 and she really didn't want to die - she mainly just wanted some attention. I'm not saying it wasn't serious, it was but it was deliberately timed to ensure she got some attention but didn't die, i.e she was found. In her case it was an impulsive reaction to teenage angst and she didn't ever (to my knowledge) do it again. I do realise that this may not be the case with your daughter and as pie says, it may need to be taken extremely seriously.

I'm just wondering what you can do to improve life. Have you considered counselling? I know you say you need a mother but could a therapist/trusted counsellor help instead? It sounds as if you have had a lot on your plate in the last while and maybe having someone to offload to without guilt would be helpful? As pie says, let your daughter know you're there but you can't make her see someone if she doesn't want to. I don't know what else you can do except let her know she is loved.

Janstar. I too am so sorry. It sounds like you've been through hell recently.
I agree with all that say give MIL a wide bearth. I know that you want her to accept you and you want the closeness you were deprived of with your own mother but at the moment you are vulnerable and need care and protection not more hurt.

Re teenage daughter. What a nightmare. My mother took an overdose on several occasions when I was a teenager. It was very tough. Don't blame yourself. She obviously has some very tough things to deal with as well as being a teenager which in itself is a bed of emotional turmoil and everything is often exaggerated. I agree with www that it sounds like she is probably just looking for attention. Suicide attempts that are possibly reversible like that I think often are. I think all you can do is be there for her and shower her with love and concern but don't keep bringing it up. And you are right not to force her to see a psychotherapist. It may help if you could talk to your other daughter and get her to look out for her too ?

You all sound like you've been through so much. Big hugs to you. Totally agree with all advice here to look after lovely dh and the girls and sod the MIL. Families can be so high maintenance at times.

Janstar, just wanted to add my sympathies.Hope things are better.It sounds like you have enough to cope with at the moment without worrying about MIL (but someone did say maybe she has a problem?). It could be that she has never been one to open up to people and finds it hard to show her real feelings. What was she like to your dh as a little boy-was it a loving, touchy family and could he maybe give you an insight into her reasons/feelings? What about your FIL-how does he react or is he stuck in the middle? Sorry, lots of questions....Your daughter's situation could be IMO either teenage angst, looking for attention or maybe it's her way of telling you she knows more than she's said about your ex's situation. Is there a family friend/auntie that she would talk to? I know I had one, who told me things about stuff that my mum was a bit embarrassd to say and as far as I know, she never really told my mum what I'd said, but just hinted at it so mum could have a chat with me! If she took an OD, then is she on a list (usually from the health visitor) to keep an eye on her? I hope you've had support in this aspect too, don't ever feel you didn't do enough etc..Where are you based-perhaps there are some mumsnetters near enough to you to maybe meet up (without mentioning our names, of course!) I send you LOL and if you want to chat some more, maybe on the phone, please answer and I'll give you my number. Take care and LOL to all!

Thanks to all of you for your comments. It is profoundly obvious after reading them all that I should forget about MIL and concentrate on my own little family. I guess it should have been obvious to me from the start but my own mother brought me up to pander to her tantrums and that is my natural reaction to this kind of situation. I am a fool for emotional challenges and I would like to stop, 'cos they wear me out and rob my family of the energy I should give to them. Thank goodness for some impartial advice.

Perhaps I am hoping for too much when I wish so hard for a mother. It is hard to explain to anyone who has a good mother how far-reaching the effects of a lack of one go. It isn't really the love and affection a mother gives. I long ago realised that I could not re-create a childhood for myself. The worst difficulty I find is that my mother did not teach me the mothering skills I now need. If she had been there for me when I was a child I would have learnt from her example and I would be much better at handling family crises now. I guess that is why, at 42, I still so keenly feel the lack of one. I am lucky that I do have some wonderful friends whom I consider to be excellent mothers. (Strangely enough, they have all lacked good mothers themselves!) But unfortunately all of them live a reasonable distance away and are not regular emailers. My husband is great, but as you can imagine with a mother like his, his communication skills are still 'under construction'. Also he is out of the house 12 hours a day during the week and I don't want to tire him out more with my tears when he gets home. (I realise I have to sometimes though.)

To answer questions asked: My daughter is almost 14. The overdose was meant to be discovered, I am sure. I have used counselling and psychotherapy in the past and it helped me get over my own long-standing depression which I am now free from. My DD knows all this but remains unconvinced. My sis would make a wonderful counsellor substitute but lives too far away (same old story). We are almost certain that she did this because of arguments with her friends at school, but suspect she must have already been stressed out over all the other problems, and so a combination of things knocked her out in the end. We live in the St Albans / Watford area.

As for their dad, we are back in court in a couple of weeks, if we cannot agree before then. This is too long a story for me to relate here, but our main concern is not really what he is doing (although it is hardcore), but his general belief that the children do not need to be shielded from it.

FIL is an okay guy, bit of a jack the lad, but he doesn't like getting involved in arguments. Funny enough I can understand his ways far more since MIL's outburst!

Janstar - so sorry to read of your problems. I am sorry I do not have anything else to add to the advice you have had so far.
One question though. Is the business your ex running legal? Does the court know about it?

Yes, it's all legal as far as the authorities can tell. I was told by the police that if it had been printed it would have been illegal but that the law cannot keep up with modern technology, that's why we have so much excrement on the internet.

Surely if the fact printed material would be illegal, the stuff on the computer is illegal as well. The fact that there have been many cases of people having their computers seized by the police and the images checked makes me wonder about the advice you were given. Seems incredible that he is allowed to get away with this.

Ordinary hardcore porn isn't illegal on the internet, I don't think it matters how explicit it is as long as there are not children or animals involved. They have to preface with warnings etc. These cases of images on computers leading to prosecutions are normally involving minors. Simply downloading an image of a minor in a sexual pose can lead to a criminal sentence, even if the image is downloaded unknowingly. But creating websites with pictures of explicit sex is perfectly legal. He then uses these sites to advertise his videos, which contain the harder stuff.

Can I just say that you are doing exactly the right thing stopping your DDs from being around their dad if he exposes trhem to porn. My DH's parents had lots of really nasty stuff lying around which he saw from around age 5, it realy messed him up. Good luck and i hope things resolve themselves soon.

Janstar - I can't imagine all the pain and disappointment you must be feeling at the moment.

Perhaps you could give your daughter some quality one to one time, or spend some time with just you and your two daughters doing something you all enjoy. However, during this time I wouldn't bring up the subject of their dad, or her OD attempt just yet. Let them know that you are there for them, and that no matter what you love them (although I'm sure you do tell them this - just keep telling them and reassuring them again and again.) If you feel that your daughters don't feel like opening up to you at the moment, perhaps you could arrange for their best friends to come over reguarly. I know as a teenager I could NEVER talk to my parents about anything - but my mates I could tell them everything. They were my support through all my difficulties.

Secondly, I would just like to point out, those people who have lovely supportive mothers are extremely lucky. Much as I love my mother, and she is a lovely person I just couldn't tell her anything as she has strong fixed views how things should be. Luckily I have my friends, and my wonderful DH who I know I can talk about anything too. What is important is having someone you can talk frankly and honestly too, and have a shoulder to cry on. I think if that person happens to be your mum it's a priveledge. Your MIL is not this type of person and prob never will be. Like the others have said below, I would leave it for now.

Sorry for rambling - Janstar your post touched me, and I sincerely hope things will work out in this difficult time for you.

More thanks for all the constructive remarks and sympathy, it is most appreciated. Have just spent the day shopping with DDs. DD1 much happier after a fun school trip to Germany. Today she got her ears pierced and fainted in the shop but afterwards felt triumphant (like you do when you overcome a difficulty). Since she is adamant that she hates doctors and will not talk, I decided that maybe she could find catharsis in a hobby. I am lucky enough to have a little room for all my hobbies and DIY, well stocked with materials and tools for woodworking, painting, sewing, cardmaking and lots more. I asked her if maybe a bit of crafting might help her to order her thoughts, it works for me. She was v positive about this idea so I am going to have a tidy up and get her started.

As for the MIL, my DH received a text from the FIL on Friday saying 'we have to talk, come over Saturday night or Sunday'. We discussed and decided that we did not like the way they expected him to drop everything and run over there as if he had something to be sorry for. So he texted back that he was too busy. He will talk to them when he is ready. Instead we spent the weekend all together doing some chores and having some fun. Everything much better now.

Janstar

Just found your post and wanted to say how sorry I am you're having suach a tough time.
However your husband sounds fab and I know you must thank your lucky stars every day that he's in your life. Your MIL soiunds the least of your problems. I can't belived she wouldn't want to support you and be there for you. How sad that she'll end up on missing out on so much - all the things you've offered her in the past. I'm shocked at the reaction she gave you, what a shame, but she's the loser not you. you have a wonderful family that will come through all of this much stronger and closer than you were before.
Good luck with the ex, but I don't think you'll need my luck - you're going to just fine. Big hug anyway{{{}}}

Glad to hear that your DD is responding to you and open to suggestions Janstar, thats a really positive sign. It sounds like you are giving her just the right amount of support and space, she is lucky to have you.

What do you think FIL wanted to 'talk' about?

Not sure what to think about that, Pie. Perhaps MIL wanted to talk to DH but was too proud to call. Or afraid I would answer I am a little concerned that something might be seriously wrong and that is why she lost it the other day. i.e. serious illness in herself or a relative. Stuff like that can make you overreact if someone bothers you with less important matters.

Or maybe FIL was going to try his hand at peacemaking. Most likely he fancied a few beers and wanted DH to go with him. That would be entirely in character.

An update on the situation....

My DH met his father yesterday for drinks and a chat. It seems my MIL believes it impossible that I did not know about my ex's pornographic businesses. I guess that means she thinks I was once involved. This would explain why she was so spiteful towards me. She obviously has me down for some kind of money-grabbing tart who married her son for a meal ticket and to better myself socially. Five years of knowing me has failed to inspire any fondness or loyalty, seemingly.

They also think my DH is crazy to have spent so much money on legal fees to protect my girls. We cannot figure out what alternative they think we had.

My DH is wholeheartedly with me on this, but it is hurting him dreadfully that his mother has put him in this position. He also feels completely let down by their dismissal of me and the girls, whom he considers to be his own. I have never seen him so stressed and upset. He says he feels as if his life is falling apart. All I can do is be here for him.

I don't want really to have any more to do with my in-laws now that they have so thoroughly assassinated my character, but I feel obliged not to give up for my DH's sake. However he can't see how it will mend, since we don't think we are going to be able to convince them of the truth.

Just in case anyone is interested...we had our court case with my ex last week. The court has granted him indirect contact with DD2 by 4 letters a year only. That is all. No meetings, no email etc and no contact with DD1. He was denied parental responsibility and despite wangling legal aid for himself was ordered to pay our costs, in principle. Which means we will probably never see a penny but that he will have to explain his finances.

He has cost us several thousand pounds, in fact all our savings. He has caused months of worry and stress. He has ruined my daughter's mental health and caused a fatal rift between ourselves and my PIL. And I am sure he went away feeling hard done by. Grrr.

However, we have scored a moral victory and this thing is cleared up so we can get on with our lives. And it feels absolutely marvellous to have been backed by the courts. If only my MIL could have seen it.