Rejected by my MIL

[Janstar]

Hi everyone

This is my first posting on mumsnet, I just so need someone to talk to and some feedback. My DH and I have been through so much in the last few months.

I have two daughters from a previous relationship, and back in Sept my eldest confessed that her father and his partner had been running an internet business with porno sites and video sales - all from the house where they live and my daughters had been visiting alternate weekends. We had to stop the visits, and only have meetings in restaurants with my DH to chaperone, but my ex applied to the court for more contact. As you could expect his statement was full of lies to try and paint me in a bad light.

My husband had been made redundant the same week we found all this out. We had grand plans to do up our house and use the redundancy money to start a new life with our own business. But the legal costs over these months ate all the money away and my DH is back at work now. (Thank goodness he was wanted!).

To discover that my daughter had known all this for two years before telling us was horrible. She did not want to cause trouble but she was only 11 when she found out. What a strain on her!

Neither daughters want to see their father any more, but we have been put through months of worry and expense, and have been interviewed by various officials as if we were on trial ourselves. The case is still progressing but looks well for us at this stage.

In January I broke my leg on the ice and could not walk for three months, and my poor daughters had so much to do to help me. My DH and I have a little boy of 2 and so there is a lot to do. My eldest daughter fell ill with physical symptoms the doctor diagnosed as stess in the end, and missed a lot of school. Then one day she had a big fight with her school friends and came home and swallowed the contents of the medicine cabinet. I spent three days in hospital with her, she is fully recovered but still depressed. I cannot persuade her to accept a course of therapy, although two psychotherapists have recommended it, but have told me that to force her would do more harm than good.

I sent my MIL an email a few weeks ago explaining what we were trying to contend with, and asking for some support. I did not receive a reply. When I saw her at last, she attacked me fiercly, saying that my email had been a load of s**t, that it was the most self-pitying drivel she had ever read, and that she did not understand what I wanted her to do.

I said, 'be like a mother, give advice, give support.' She told me that she is not my mother, and that at 42 I shouldn't need one. That I should shut up and get on with it, and grow up. She also accused my DH of being selfish and only caring about himself, which I could not believe. He is a wonderful son. He always phones her every week for a chat, pops in, treats her to meals out and lovely gifts on her birthday and other occasions, and sent her on a lovely holiday for her 60th birthday last year. I don't know another son who is so generous and caring. He is just as wonderful as a husband.

I did not mean to sound complaining to her, but I wanted to tell her my situation, in the hope that we could have conversations that are real and some kind of a mother/daughter relationship. My own mother was an alcoholic who died many years ago, and when I married my husband I was thrilled that now I might actually have a mother to share things with. I have tried really hard to build a good friendship with her, making a fuss of her on mother's day, cooking nice meals for her and my FIL, inviting them to join us on holidays and days out, but she has never really made any effort to talk to me in a way that reveals anything about her inner self.

I feel that she is so stoical that she cannot bear it if I am my usual open self, to her it seems self-centred. But as she spoke to me it was as if the floodgates opened and a stream of pure venom came out of her mouth. It hurt so much to find out that she felt that way. She was totally dismissive of us and our problems, as if she did not care a jot what we were going through. She implied that it was our fault that my daughter had taken the overdose.

She has never been like this with us before although there have been many times where I have felt unfriendly vibes. My husband is stunned, he doesn't even want to try talking to her. I'm afraid that there is something behind her behaviour that is hurting her so badly that she couldn't control her normally impeccable temper.

I don't know what, if anything, to do or say or think. I am worried for her and for my husband. I am also feeling bereft of the mother I hoped for, as if two mothers have now rejected me. I so needed a mother just now.

I am sorry to be so long and boring.

Janster I'm glad to hear that the courts took you ex's behaviour and influence seriously.

Hopefully you DD will be able to make a full recovery. How is she doing BTW? Is your DH even going to tell your MIL what happened?

Take Care xxxx

I am pleased for you and your family Janster. Hope your daughter makes a full recovery and becomes a strong, positive woman like her mother!

Has anyone any bright ideas on how to handle this?

Since the last time I posted on this thread I have not seen or spoken to my in-laws. Curiously, they sent us a card on our anniversary last week, signed, love mum and dad. I am at a loss to understand how they can wish us well, after all that has been said.

Anyway, the problem now is that my dh's favourite cousin is getting married soon, and his parents will be at the wedding. Obviously he will want to be there and wish his cousin well, but how will he handle his parents? It would be only natural for his family to seat them together since they (as far as I know) are unaware that there is a problem. How can my dh sit with them without either ignoring them completely or starting a row. Both options not really what you would want since it risks messing up his cousin's day. He feels it will be hard to talk to them as if nothing has happened.

I am not going because I would not be able to cope with being in the same room as them with this all unresolved. I'm not prepared to endure my MIL's barbed remarks all day without being allowed to defend myself. But I don't see why dh should miss out as he is very fond of this cousin. I will stop typing now as there is a danger I will rant on and on. Any ideas gratefully received.

Janstar - have just read this and can empathise with you - dh and his bro talk to each other but not to their father or sister - have no bright ideas on how to deal with wedding but just wanted to wish you and your family well

As it's his favourite cousin, who presumably he has a good close (-ish?) relationship with, could he just tell the cousin that things are a bit sticky with his parents at the moment so he'd rather sit with someone else? As long as he does it ASAP, before seating plans etc are finalised, that shouldn't be a problem and if anyone else asks why they're not sitting together he could suggest they ask his mother...have you actually declined the invitation for yourself yet, btw?

I know weddings can be the worst possible events for families who are not getting on but will be thrown together. My brother's daughter got married last week, we have another brother who neither of us is particularly comfortable with and he just wasn't invited (we're not in touch much so he won't even have known about it - he is utterly wrapped up in himself and probably doesn't even know his niece is old enough to get married!) which was such a relief, if he had been it would have been difficult.

(As it was we sat with a couple who were neighbours of my DB and SIL when the bride was a baby, and I and younger brother had been to stay then, and they remembered him playing outside so asked if he was at the wedding - I just said no and thankfully they didn't ask why not, though I suspect they wanted to, remembering a sweet playful 9 year old and not knowing the self-centred obnoxious 38 year old!)

Janstar, hadn't read this thread properly before, what a horrible time you have been having the last couple of months - I hope your DDs are feeling much more settled and happy with life now the awful business with their dad has been sorted out. You are being such a good mother to them and they will never need to feel lost and abandoned as you have.

There seem to be a lot of women like your MIL who will not be happy with who their sons marry (there have been a good few mentioned on here) - it's sad that they can't see what they are missing by it. I hope your DH will be able to enjoy his cousin's wedding but it's a shame you can't all go.

janstar
glad to see you back, we have been worrying about you (see teenage thread)

janh, neither of us have yet replied to the invite but the wedding is drawing very near and I feel guilty that we have not sorted ourselves out. I remember with our own wedding how we had to pay for lots of meals for people who just could not be a*d to let us know they were not coming and I don't want to be a pain like that.

But I really don't think I can go whatever happens. I am rubbish at telling lies, even white ones and if I see my in-laws doing their expect job of putting on the right front it will do my head in and I will not be able to resist saying something to them. And it would be unfair to ruin someone else's special day if there is even a chance of that.

But I do feel very cross that I have been put in this position just because they so firmly believe something untrue about me.

I think my dh has every right to be there without them spoiling the day, but if he goes I will spend the whole day worrying about what is being said, and he will be in a rotten position, wanting to be loyal to me but not wanting to get involved in an argument at an inappropriate time and place, and I know he will find it hard to pretend to chat normally with his parents, in fact he won't be able to manage it.

I also suggested he ask to be seated somewhere else, but his cousin's fiancee's mother is organising the seating and he has never even met her. He feels awkard about having to explain what would seem like a petty squabble just to be seated elsewhere, but unless he explains the whole thing that is what it will seem like. Arrrrgh!

Janstar I would go around to in-laws and confront them once and for all.
This situation cant carry on and you need to know where you stand.
Dont argue, just ask them what their feelings are for you straight to your face.Then you can tell them how you feel about the situation.
This should at least make everyone involved know where they stand.If nothing is resolved so be it, there is not much you can do.But at least try just once.

As for the wedding, if I was in your position I would GO. At the end of the day this is a snub to your dh's cousin and his bride and also to your dh who would want you there on his arm. You are after all his wife.He has supported you, return the favour by going with him.Dont exclude yourself or allow yourself to be excluded by any more family.This will only justify the in-laws.

At the end of the day you have done nothing wrong IMO and I would hold your head up high.

Janstar - I have had an awful weekend and a really good friend said something to me yesterday - I have been crying nonetheless but here goes:-

You are a beautiful, bright, intelligent woman. You are caring, funny, generous and kind.
You think first about others and lastly about yourself.
You give a huge amount but only take just what is necessary.
You try to hold your pain inside and not let it seep into everyday lilfe.
You laugh to hide the tears and the pain.
You walk away rather than upset or injure and yet you still feel unworthy.

(She had written all of this down, the next bit she hadn't)

She told me that she loved me, that I need to walk into a room with my head held high because I deserved to and had no reason not to, to believe in myself and to understand that it others don't that it is not the end of the world and striving to get them to change their minds was a waste of my time and energy.

She finished by saying give them one chance - tell them how you feel, what makes you upset and angry, tell them the ball is in their court and they can decide if I am worthy of their love and support but know that everyone else thinks I am and therefore if they decide that I am not I can still carry on and life will not be too terrible to cope with.

I hope this is understood and think that maybe you should apply it to yourself too.

Go round there tell them what you think, what they have said that hurts, that they don't know enough to judge you and at the end of the day they have no right to judge you. You are a big girl and their son is a big boy who has made a choice with which he is perfectly happy. (Take DH and have him standing by your sode holdign your hand).

Then just walk away - don't use that energy and time worrying about this you have too much other stuff in your life to worry about that is far more important.

Go to the wedding - hold your head up high, be polite and kind - be the person that you really are and sod them if they can't see it, you know it, your husband knows it and anyone who is worth their salt knows it.

Sorry for the long waffle.

Boe, that was just beautiful, thank you.

Doormat, thanks for your vote of confidence. In the end though I did not go because I was afraid I would lose my temper and spoil the wedding and to me that is just not an option.

dh went to the wedding which was yesterday. There was a big row between him and his parents.

His father said he would like a word with him, so he went over. Then FIL asked him if he was ready to apologise to his mother. dh said no. MIL apparently then said that it was because I had told him not to (see what I'm up against!). dh said no, he was speaking for himself. MIL started going on about the email I sent that had appeared to start all this off originally but dh said no, he was disgusted that they had accused me of being part of my ex's porn business and that they had said he should not have spent the money on going to court to protect my dds.

MIL said that she had had a cancer scare and that dh did not care. He replied that he had been extremely worried when she was ill but that she had not told him there was a cancer scare so what was he supposed to do?

(IMO she was so scathing about my asking for help when we needed support that she made it impossible for herself to ask when she needed it.)

My dh says that when he tried to get them to talk about what they had said about the porn and the girls they turned and walked away from him (obviously could not find a defence). He lost it a bit at that stage and went after them shouting abuse and had to be held back by his cousin (the bridegroom).

When he explained to his cousin what had happened his cousin told him he was the most sensible man he knew and that if he was that upset he must have a very good reason. All the uncles and aunts were stunned since they have never seen my dh lose his temper before. dh is a very mild-mannered man.

Apparently dh said one or two of the aunts and uncles had asked him before the row what was wrong with his father since he had upset a few people recently.

Anyway, cousin asked dh to stay but he said no, he was going home before anything else was said to ruin his wedding. He came home and cried his eyes out - and he is not a crying sort of man. he says he feels like his life is falling apart.

I told him I am so proud of him for standing by us and that I love him more for it. Now he is sleeping it off - poor love is going to have a bad head when he wakes up.

I have told him that next time I will go with him - I have as much right to be there as anyone else. But the chance of arguments is much smaller now, since there is nothing else to say.

Janstar how awful for your dh.
An apology when someone is in the wrong costs nothing and I feel that the PIL are just so rude.
I can understand how your dh feels, my parents have disowned me and my family over a silly argument. I am the type of person who tells people straight (I dont like it but that is the way I am)and my parents did not like it.
At least your dh has backed you up to the hilt.You must be very proud of him and also very sad for him.
Go and sort it out or at least try for the sake of your dh, I know it is very hard but just try to build bridges.

I am hoping that some of the aunts and uncles might have helped PIL to see sense after my dh had left last night.

I feel I'd like to write a letter since they have come to lots of conclusions about my character and have not actually spoken to me about it so I have never been given the opportunity to defend myself. Also I am keen to warn them not to spread their malicious opinions to other members of the family or I will sue them for slander.

Write them a letter, it will be good therapy for you to write your feelings down on the matter.
You can only try, if you get nowhere at least you know you have tried and also where you stand.

Message withdrawn

Janstar, I am sorry your DH had such an awful time yesterday. What a lovely person he sounds. Hope the uncles and aunts can help straighten out the loony ILs. And hope he feels calm today.

Twinkie, I don't have any regrets about the kindness I have shown them in the past. We have had numerous parties before to which they have always been invited, had them here for Christmas, many many meals, have taken them out, taken them on holiday, bought lovely presents for occasions etc, all paid for by dh. We have rushed there if ever we felt they needed help, were ill or whatever, each of us phoned and emailed them every week for a chat, and visited lots.

After all that the very first time I asked for help I was called 'whining and self-pitying' and my dh was called 'selfish'. What hope do I have of ever convincing them that I am a nice person? It just isn't going to happen. I think they decided when they first met me that I am a certain kind of person and they were never going to like me, they were always determined to find a way to prove their dislike was justified.

And I guess my husband is selfish because he hasn't ditched me on their say-so and gone home with his tail between his legs.

I really don't think a party or anything else is going to change their minds. And I am not going to put my family through the stress of it.

PIL turned up here on Friday night without warning. When I opened the front door they said they had come to see ds. I was flustered and called my dh to the door to deal with them.

They came in with a big box for ds and sweets for the girls. They had missed ds's birthday. He was very excited and opened the present (a big red bus toy) so that was that.

They stayed an hour but refused to sit down or have a drink. They still expect my dh to apologise to them but he refused. When we asked them to explain why they thought I had knowledge of my ex's porn business and why they thought it wrong of dh to support my daughters through the court case, they changed the subject.

All the time my MIL was talking across me and when I spoke she ignored me and started cooing at ds or interrupting to speak to dh as if I wasn't there. I told her she would have to include me in the conversation, she was not coming into my house and talking across me like that.

At one point when we asked her why she had not tried to talk to us in the first place she said if she had come round she would have dragged me round the room by my hair! I laughed and suggested she try, which surprised her a bit, as I think everyone else is afraid of her. Anger management problem or what?

I warned them that they had better keep their nasty little opinions to themselves as if I discovered they had been spreading these lies about me I would sue them. FIL muttered something about not minding spending money on that and when dh demanded to know if he still thought I had been involved with the porn he said it wouldn't surprise him, at which point dh told them both to get out of the house. FIL then apologised but without conviction.

Basically they said they want a relationship with dh and ds, but the rest of us can go to hell (my dds are not my dh's biological daughters).

After they left we found another big bag of presents for ds which I have taken away (I don't think he saw them). We have decided that if they want to give ds presents we will only accept them if dds are treated equally. We are also adamant that they will have to talk to us as a unit, including me and the girls, and resolve all the issues that have come up before there can be any question of resuming contact.

Unfortunately we don't hold out much hope of this happening. Every time we questioned them about why they had said this, or that, they either denied they had ever said many of the things, or ignored the question. In fact they stood there and lied their faces off. I am so glad my dh was present when they originally said all this stuff or he would be starting to think I had made it all up, the way they carried on.

I told my dh that I can't help feeling that after all this they are simply not very nice people and I don't want my ds to have contact with them.

Am I right? Are there circumstances when grandparents shouldn't be given contact?

Janstar, IMO you're completely right. These people have problems, big time, and while you can't change that, you do have control over the way you react to them and what contact you and your children have with them. Your DH is supportive of you and agrees presumably? If so, I'd say yes, your instinct is right. Are there any positives that come from contact with them? If not, leave it. And you're completely right: they accept you all as a family unit or not at all. They cannot be allowed to pick and choose which of you to be involved with. Poor you, they sound hideous.

Janstar ... I thought my PILs were bad ... poor you ... hugs {{{}}}
I think you did/said the right things definitely but I have no idea what rights if any grandparents have ...
Thinking of you ...

I think in law, grandparents have no rights particularly.

In practise? I think I would try and assess how much stress and strain their continued contact would have with ds. Even at 2 he's going to pick up on tension in the family very easily and will soon work out that these people are disliked intensely by mummy and daddy, which could be terribly upsetting for him. It might be best for all members of the family if contact is cut right back in these circumstances.

Obviously, your dh has to decide himself if he still wants to keep contact with them (it would be horrible to put even more in a position where he feels torn between you all). You sound like you have a really wonderful and supportive dh - it must be a terrible strain for him in particular.

I do think it's time to focus on your little family unit and to hell with the PIL...

Oh Janstar, that's horrible! I'm all for cutting off contact with them (at least you and the kids having nothing to do with them). You don't have to answer this if it's too nosey a question, but... after the wedding, did anything happen with his extended family? I was hoping they'd be a source of support for all of you.

Thinking of you.

I think you have been extremely patient Janstar, and you have done the right thing. This summer we banned dh's mother from having any contact with our children, after years of putting up with her, and tbh it is a great relief. Dh says he feels liberated by it. There comes a point where enough is enough, you start to think if you want people like this around your children, and worry what effect they can have on them.

Janstar, this is an awful situation and you have my sympathy too. It sounds like you did well not to get into a screaming match/physical fight with them.

I also don't think you'd be wrong to break off contact with them, but I'm not sure there isn't room for some kind of compromise.

Does your dh really want to cut off contact too? or is he just willing to go along with what you want? I know it sounds like an obvious question, but I really think you need to be 100% agreed or resentment will start to build up somewhere.

IME rows like this bring out the worst in all concerned and they may never get over their resentment of you, but it may not affect their grand-parenting abilities in any way. If it does, then your ds will see that when he's old enough.

But it does sound like you are in an impossible position. Do what you feel is right.

Thank you all for your support. To answer your question, JJ, we have not had any contact with the extended family since the wedding, but that is normal - dh's extended family don't tend to phone much, they just meet up once or twice a year and have a big party.

My dh agrees with everything I have said. It's not that we want to sever ties with them, but that they are making it impossible for us not to. I don't know what they want from me, short of admitting to something I didn't do and apologising for it.

Now that a couple of days have gone by I am feeling better and even a bit glad that they came over. At least it gave me a chance to tell them what I think - even if it doesn't get through to them it made me feel better.

And dh sat down with the girls last night and told them that he is not going to allow them to be treated as ds's inferior. I think that did them the world of good and they are in very good moods today. They have been through so much s**t with their father, I am not going to allow anyone else to treat them like dirt.