Thinking of leaving H due to 'emotional affair'

[loves2walk]

I have posted here twice before about my suspicions that my H was having an affair. Since we moved to a different city almost 2 years ago our relationship has changed and we've been through a very stressful few months. I have no evidence that he did have an affair but there was an admission of a mutual attraction between H and the suspected OW one night (which he told me about himself). They then continued to spend time together out of work (but often with other work people) getting very drunk etc.and going to football together occasionally on a saturday. I was really threatened by this but my concerns were dismissed by H and so I put up with things that worried me when I should have dealt with it by discussing boundaries etc. and being assertive.

However, I feel he has now 'come back to me' and wants to be let back in. I think their 'affair' is over.

BUT he is still texting her and emailing in a friendly, bantor sort of way and just today he lied to me about something to do with her. I can access his blackberry so see messages between them though he doesn't know this. This 'lie', while over a relatively innocent thing, is bothering me so much today as I think it is evidence that they have secrets from me.

I have spoken with a Relate counsellor who understood my desperate need for 'evidence' but said (as people here have) that I don't need evidence if I feel he is having an emotional affair that is enough.

I'm now seriously thinking of leaving him. This is a massive deal though as my home town is a long way away, a flight away, and DSs would have to change schools and start afreash when DS1 already did that 2 years ago. So I would be moving a 9yr old who had moved schools/town at 7yrs already. That feels cruel to me and I'm worried will cause real distress to him. I don't want to stay here as I was completely new here 2 yrs ago and even though I have built up some really good friends through the DSs school, they are friends of our little family unit of 4 - not my personal friends IYSWIM. And no family support here at all.

Also without evidence, I will be seen as the one breaking up the marriage, surely and that really bothers me. That I will have to tell family and friends the whole sorry story and hope they can understand why the emotional affair was enough reason to take such a major step of breaking up a family.

I feel in so deep with this dilemma but I cannot imagine how I can forgive my H the ongoing deceit and 'let him back in'. I could have maybe forgiven infidelity if I was given a chance to, but I'm not even being allowed the luxury of deciding that.

oh i see, so sorry, i just don't know which way to advise i', afraid.

Dear OP. Sorry you are going through this.

I am also going through a hard time having discovered an emotional affair by my H.

We have both read Not Just Friends, had a Relate session together, and with our own counselors, and spent quite a bit of time apart to cool down from my initial anger.

I found about a week after the initial discovery that he had phoned OW while I was at work, and went ballistic. Explained that for him and her to have a secret conversation was to exclude me, and was very destructive to out marriage and any progress.

It was only after I told him clearly not to contact the OW ever again, and sent her a text myself, and got him to do the same, (I asked to see it) that we have been able to really talk at all. He also knows that I now daily check his phone and emails.

Has your H agreed to never contact her again? And has he agreed to let you see all his call/email info?

Regaining the trust is the very first step. without it, nothing good can happen.

It might be easier for you to let it out in the counsellor's room. Only you can know, of course. I'd prefer it to be in the safe environment, but don't think I'd be able to keep my mouth shut until then!

When I discovered my H had phoned the OW at work, I let him have both barrels straight away.
I don't know how you can stop yourself!

It might help him see how wrong he is, to see how upset you are?

Some men are so emotionally retarded.

They can't stop contact as she works for him and they have daily contact over so many work things.

So are you able to forgive and move on together helicop? Are you still living together and sleeping in same bed? I just can't imagine how all the practicalities of family /couple life go on with this all out in the open.

I can keep my mouth shut Grace because my H's moods are very dark, not violent but menacing and I'm not good at getting it all out verbally, probably because of how his moods make me feel.

We are due to drive to my parents, to the city that I would move to should me and H separate, in July in school hols for 2 weeks. So I'm wondering if I should keep it all under my hat till then and pack the car with the intention of staying at my parents. Maybe spend the next few weeks getting schools ready and taking legal advice and sorting bank accounts out. This is all crazy and I definately need to open that wine now. I'm speaking to a friend at 9 over the phone after all kids in bed so that might help. I have literally noone near me that I can confide in so this helps so much

The practicalities are difficult.

At first I couldn't even be in a room with him, and so he went to his mums for a few days, then I went away for a break on my own. I found it much easier to communicate whilst apart by email.

We have had to make up reasons to cancel quite a few family events because I can;t face playing happy families.

We are containing it and only telling a few very close and trusted friends what's going on, because it feels like the more people who know, the bigger the drama.

Now we are both under the same roof, but he's on the sofa. I want more progress and an action plan in Relate yet. For me, being on the sofa is a stark reminder to him that big positive things have got to happen.

But the whole thing is forcing us to delve into what's happened to our dynamics over the years. Quite hard to hear. And it has made me feel like he's been the one with the active social life, (hence opportunity for emotional affair) while I've been at home. And I have already started re-energising my social life, with a few drinks in the diary.

One thing that depresses me enormously though is that I always wanted a 3rd child, and he didn't. I find that dream very hard to let go of.

Good luck.

Thats sad about wanting another child. Is that something that you can discuss in the relate sessions?

It all sounds really tough, trying to keep going in the same house while having counselling. Do you continue to talk about the things raised in counselling between sessions? And are you able to make decisions about your children without conflict and game playing?

I've just spend the last 3 hours on the phone to my 2 best friends. Good job they are very patient! They are both supporters of my H, I suppose, in that they both like him and know how much I love him. But they both recognise that he is 'difficult' and that I've been way too accepting over this friendship over the past year. They have both advised taking it easy over the next few days/weeks and not making hasty decisions. But they think the counselling will help bring things out in the open or reveal even more lies and then I'll know for sure.

They do not think I should decide what to do yet because they both said I am very vulnerable being in a place without family or friends. So I'm going to keep my head down until the term is over. I might go to my parents on my own with kids at end of july, no H so I can have some space to think, and explore whether we should move back there. But not make any decisions till we're there.

It all sounded good on the phone but it's a long time to wait to get some peace - 6 weeks. I am exhausted and facing the usual 6am wake up call from my little guy. TV and caffeine tomorrow.

It is nearly impossible to switch off from though - I'm wondering if other people find this - that it sort of co-exists alongside every other thought you have.

loves2, can you summarise your best friends' marriages in blunt terms?

I don't know - odd question.

One friend is divorced from H. He is an alcoholic and is unreliable and bit of a nightmare really. She is now single parent of 5 kids and dating again.

Other is child of very messily divorced parents. She is married to very nice guy and says a really boring family life is what she's aiming for for her kids after her terrible time.

Neither are saying I should stay with H, or leave him, just that I should take it slowly and keep the routine going for kids until the holidays

Thank you

It wasn't such an odd question, given that you wrote "I've just spend the last 3 hours on the phone to my 2 best friends. Good job they are very patient! They are both supporters of my H, I suppose, in that they both like him and know how much I love him. But they both recognise that he is 'difficult'"

From what you've said, they're both habituated to a cataclysmic environment and have ... could we say, low expectations?

I think you could really do with seeing a Relate counsellor on our own.

• your own - I'm not coming with you!

'habituated to a cataclysmic environment' god that sounds dramatic!

really, I would say they could see this coming since I first told them about OW and they're not now saying 'told you so' which they could easily do, but saying 'take it easy on yourself, this is truly awful'

Its not that easy to give up on someone that you not only love but believe the best off. I can't believe he's done this, if he has. Well I know he has now but I still can't get my head round it. How can 1 person crap on another in this way? We've spent over 11 years loving each other and have produced 2 wonderful boys, I can't believe he's thrown that away.

I knew I should have turned off and gone to bed, now I'm about to start ranting.

that was funny - do come too, it could be fun!

good to get a laugh in before going to bed. I'm off now on that note...

Thinking of you today. Your friends are right in many ways. Even if you end up rowing about it all today avoid making any decisions. You are somewhat shocked I think. You can take as much time as you need to decide what you want to do. It is so hard. Please take care of yourself. Get boys and you into some fresh air for a bit and eat. If at all possible give the wine a break fir two reasons; easy to fall into needing it every night and unlikely to result in calm at home for your lads. I know, I have been there. Consider yourself virtually hugged. X

Thanks menopause, my best friend calls me hun and has sent me such lovely texts today. But got to focus on the practicalities or I won't get through this.

I am so shocked I think that I don't quite believe it's true. Even after months now of suspicion. But I've spent my waking hours during the night thinking of alternatives of his meeting her for a drink. Maybe the guys were there and they already had their drinks? I just can't shake myself out of this - I suppose I'm fearful that soon as I really really believe it I will go to pieces start crying uncontrollably or smash up all our wedding china. Am having wierd thoughts of doing horrible things to OW as well. I so want her to suffer.

But can't go there. So have got spare room ready for me to go into tonight. Am going to take boys to cinema with pad of paper and sneek to doorway for some light during the film so can write down what want to say tonight to H. I don't know if anyone can appreciate how someone can twist reality and justify abnormal behaviours like my H and I don't trust him to turn this all back on me.

Infact I thought I should not say to him the evidence I have, just say that I have it so the pretence is up. He will be furious about this and that will become the smokescreen that prevents further discussion but I don't care. He doesn't need to know that infact I only have evidence of a friendship,so maybe he'll actually own up to the whole thing. Does that make sense?

Can someone help me out here and tell me is that sensible? He'll try and make me tell him what I know but I'll say that as he isn't telling me what HE knows, I don't have to tell him what I know or how I know it, but that it is enough evidence to say we're having a separation and staying in different rooms.

I can't believe i really typed that. How am I going to keep this together to get through the day? My babysitter is away this weekend and I have no family at all. I just want my mum to come and make it alright again. God I'm 42 and in such a mess

Wish I hadn't gone at the wine last night and that and lack of sleep is making me really shaky. I only had half bottle but was too much, you're right menopause, I need some fresh air and food.

Somehow got to keep it together for day. OK to get kids through teeth brushing and into clothes. Maybe it will help that I really can't go to pieces as they're too young to look after themselves. That at least gives me structure to the day. I'm dreading 4pm though.

Would it help Loves if you wrote here, what you believe is "contrary evidence" to what your H has been telling you?

For example, was the "lie" you referred to, his insistence that they spoke of nothing other than work and football - and the "need to talk?" and "Having a meeting - goodnight" texts seem to suggest otherwise? And now, the evidence of a drink outside of work?

One of the things that might be worth focusing on is how wrong he was to continue a friendship with someone to whom he had admitted an attraction to. This is where the first double standard comes in, I think. He would never have tolerated that in reverse.

And if that same person appeared to be falling in love with you, by your own admission, he would have expected you to terminate the friendship at all costs - not persuade them to stay in your employ. He had a choice at this point, because he knew when you went out after his big event in March that this friendship was causing you pain, but he rejected the one thing that would have helped the situation i.e. encouraging her moving to a new role. At the very least, if she was in love with him, she would have read this as a "sign" that he didn't want to lose her. And when he made that choice, it further increased your pain and your doubt.

For someone in denial, often the very best thing that works is to reverse everything. It has often worked for me when I've tried to get my H to understand why he did certain things - and what he would make of me if I did or said those things. When you've been married a long time, it is pretty impossible to pretend that you would find something acceptable when you both know that's not true, so I would consistently return to the double-standard - and use that old assertiveness trick of becoming a scratched record about it, until you get some answers and admissions.

Thanks WWIFN and good suggestion.

The contrary evidence - what comes to mind is telling me he was meeting 2 guys for drinks, then her text saying 'white wine please' and receipt for 1 beer and 1 wine for 5 mins later. Also texts about end of evening and him hopping into a taxi, her asking him why he'd gone when she thought he was getting another drink, him saying he 'was pushed' into taxi and her replying she 'wasn't pushing him'. He then lied by ommision about this and pretended he'd arrived home at midnight when the texts were for after then.

He text her after we'd been for a run on bank holiday - nothing work related just bout the run. So personal stuff which shows me he has let her in to 'us'.

When I list the evidence it is so slight to be meaningless. But I know it does mean something. If he has lied about silly little things like this to protect his friendship, I imagine he has lied about all the bigger stuff.

I don't want this to be evidence of betrayal, I'm not looking to 'sack' him but equally I don't want to go on being lied to so somewhere within all this I have to decide when I have enough evidence to present it to him. Should I say nothing and keep checking blackberry? I don't think I'm thinking straight.

As a general rule, I would say the lack of trust and what is already indisputable is enough for you to end your marriage, Loves. But I don't think you have actually reached your "enough" moment yet and so in your shoes, I would keep checking the BB and continue with the counselling. Might also be worth at the earliest opportunity, booking an extra session with the counsellor (even on the phone) and telling her your most recent findings.

What always strikes me about your H is that he constantly waits for you to bring these issues up, when he knows full well how unhappy you are. But then people with secrets to hide will do anything to avoid starting a difficult conversation and will in fact look for ways to evade and escape. The PTA meeting springs to mind - and this weekend's trip. I also see links with the avoidance of your family, too.

I can't decide what to do. He's just phoned to see if I want him to get a taxi from airport and is being all concerned about why I'm being quiet.

I'm going to go to pieces and back down I can just feel it. But I can't pretend all is well and swallow this growing agony inside me. i don't know if i have reached the enough moment - I certainly want to keep seeing his BB because i still find all htis unbelievable.

I can't bear what all this is doing to the boys already. They're fighting with each other and I'm like a zombie, either ignoring them and shrieking. babysitter still not back from her weekend away. I want to leave them home with someone while i go to airport to get H and tell him all stuff in my head somewhere safe like starbucks. So by the time we get home, he knows.

Let him get a taxi. My advice would be to keep your tinder dry. Do exactly as you said earlier: gather together as much information as you can about where you would stand re living, financial support, costs of drawing up a divorce petition, where you stand in terms of maintenance (how much he would have to give you) and have a good think about where you would like to live with the DCs.

Give yourself a couple of weeks to do these things.

Find and photocopy any relevant bank/savings statements and tuck passports away in a safe place. Pack a bag ready to leave with essentials. Get your head straight even though you might feel ridiculous doing these things.

They give you back a sense of control and Self.

Keep looking at his BB and do not let him know that you know his password.

Keep cool.

Then when all your soldiers are lined up as above, book a babysitter and arrange to go to a pub/bar that is neutral. At that point tell him very calmly your concerns - note, your concerns ie that you are concerned that your marriage is in serious jeopardy because you now know he has been economical with the truth about his lady-friend. Leave it at that. He knows the rest (if he is being the bloody idiot you think he is) anyway.

Then move onto the practicalities: let him know that you have consulted a solicitor and checked out what you will be entitled to upon a possible split. You have thought carefully about where you would like to move to and you are considering xxxx.

Tell him you are happy to give him 24 hours to make some decisions of his own. Then get in your PREORDERED cab and go home.

Oh, also, MEAN it all and do these things SERIOUSLY as it may well come to a split and you will need the info anyway

and having not mentioned his BB once in any of it, check his BB to see how and if he has shared the conversation with this other woman and what the tone of that convo is.

It may well be that he loves you to bits and is just being a selfish arrogrant berk.

If so, ok. If not, well you know you wouldn't be able to carry on with him already.

As I say, keep yr tinder dry for a little while longer and start making enquiries.

Thanks amazon, maybe that's best. I can't get anyone to look after boys anyway as both people I've asked are unable to. So I'll take them and go to airport as it gives us something to do and boys being around is a distraction. Then tonight I'll look on his BB, and gather info next week.

Sounds a good plan and maybe my anxiety will calm a little now if I can postpone the confrontation.

The one big negative of this waiting approach is that I don't know how I can be civil to him over the next few days. I have told him I need space and he should not make me feel guilty about that - but he can't help himself as he was really huffy before he went away because I was being 'so cold'.

So we may actually not be able to avoid a confrontation.

You can. Avoid it confontation. Think longer term. Don't be cold. Be civil. #

Confuse the bastard just as he is confusing you (if he is being a bastard that is - just tell yourself, for now, that he is.)

Good plan to go to their airport.

Pick him up and be 'normal.' He can lie to you qwuite easily it seems, (possibly) so you can lie to him too. Be strong.

Bide your time. Confrontation now will probably get you nowhere.

Remember 'a white wine please' when you feel yourself building up to a confrontation.

You need practical info right now. He is only a man and a stupid one if he thinks you have no idea.

He was huffy before he went away? He must be feeling guilty poor chap. probably or maybe

Keep your tinder dry.