I think my relationship with My Mum is beyond repair. I made the mistake of chellenging an emotional vampire, and now she is hurt..........

[DrNortherner]

In a nut shell My Mum is an emotional vampire. Always negative, alwyas the victim, people always hurt her. She has no close friends to speak of and has had many volatile feuds with her sisters and Mum.

I am an only child and for as long as I can remember her being negative, emotional and upset over things others would find trivial. She cries in public, and constantly uses phrases such as 'I had a break down in the supermarket today' and 'they have kicked me in the teeth again' I feel hugely responsible for her emotional welfare. She used guilt to ensure I ring her every day, she would show her displeasure if I was going out and hadn't told her as she perceives it as me not having time for her.

My Dad was wonderful. My lovely, safe, stable caring Dad, who was always there for me. He died in April 2009 and my world changed forever. Mopping up my Mother is tough, as Dad is no longer there for me. Since he died, Mum and I have clashed on many occassions, more so than ever before. I have flipped and told her ow she makes me feel because on Sunday eve she rang me as I was on my way out, I said I would call her the next day. I called her on Monday and she was hostile and arsey giving me one word answers and told me 'you are never bloody in to talk to me'. I lost it, and I'm afraid gave it to her full barrell about hw she makes me feel. I then wrote a letter explaining how difficult I am finding her behaviour.

I rang her tonight and got text book response from her 'how can you say that', 'you have hurt me' and 'that's unfair' She says things and then denises saying them, and conveniently forgets situations when I remind her.

She just told me tonight that I would have never dared speak to her like this if my Dad was alive. The reason I didn't was to protect him. His life was tough enough with her as it was, if I spoke out she would have been in pieces and he would be the one dealing with that, so I kept my mouth shut.

She thinks I am telling her she is a bad mother and that she has emotionally scarred me for life (her words not mine).

I can see no way out of this, but for me to button it and put up with her whining, negative personality.

Any advice greatly appreciated. I am at my wits end.

Thanks

Godness, that sounds rough indeed. I feel for you

I hope you don't mind me saying that she sounds like someone with a personality disorder

The best approach with these people is to be firm with boundaries, consistent and give honest feedback to them about how their behaviour is affecting you

I would maybe start with setting a limit around telephone contact. Maybe negotiate with her set times each week that you will call her? Or she will call you? For you, you can set yourself a personal boundary of how much emotional dumping you will tolerate... i.e, you'll listen to 10mins of whining but then will move the conversation on

If she kicks off about that, then is the time to give the feedback: "Mum, I've listened to you talking about your feelings for the last 10 mins. I don't think there's much I can say that will make you feel better right now. Shall we talk about something else?"

If she can't buy that, end the call

HOpe I haven't spoken out of line there

Wish I could offer you something more than complete empathy DrNortherner. I know exactly where you are coming from in a way and I lost my dad last March - it isn't until you lose someone that you realise how much they've protected you all along. Maybe it is an only child thing, to have mothers who think we can be there for their every need.

My mum now lives with us. It is extremely difficult but I was getting phone calls at 11pm at night, she lived 40 minutes away. This way at least I don't have the journey and she can whine to my face.

Just don't make the same mistake.

Hugs to you - you are not alone!

She actually suggessted in an arsey tone 'well perhaps we shouldn't speak every day then' I know this is a test, and if I say OK she can have something else to cry about that her only daughter does not want to phone her every day.

She says she has no one else but me.

I told her no one I know speaks to their parents every day, she told me of a womna she knows wo daughter not only calls her every day, but visits her every day. She is a wonderful daughter apparantly..........

Twoifbysea - you mum lives with you? Blimey. The thought of my loving with me fills me with horror. I think dh would leave me!

My Dad did protect me, I know he did. I know he found it hard dealing with her, but we never spoke about it when he was alive, and I feel bad about that now.

I feel like my world is not the same since he died. I miss him so much, but I never share that with her as she cries and wails the loudest.

I am now thinking I have opened a huge can of words and made her even more miserable than she already was. I should have kept my mouth shut. I see no way forward.

You are totally right, most grown adults are not in daily contact with their parent/s

The other thing I think people with personality problems need is encouragement to take responsibility for themselves and their actions

It is more than reasonable for you to say to her how her behaviour makes you feel... not in an accusatory way but in an honest, straightforward way

It's a bit like dealing with a small person, really

I'm so sorry about your Dad

Let's be honest, would you accept that sort of behaviour from a wrok colleague, say?

If she feels miserable, that is her stuff, not yours

She needs to be made aware of how her actions are affecting those she cares for

Have you had a go at that toxic parents book by Susan Forward that many people on here recommend?
Tis on Amazon I believe.

notnowbernard, no i would not accept it from anyone else. It's like I have been conditioned to feel guilty for upsetting her, even though she is upsetting me.

A very good friend of mine likened it to a woman staying in an abusive relationship.

Katisha - I have heard about that book, but never read it. I feel bad calling her toxic. She is not abusive, never undermines me and has always told me she loves me and she is proud of me. It's just the other stuff thats stiffling. But she thinks the good stuff cancels the bad stuff out.

But you are both adults and you are not responsible for her feelings

She is

Your Dad sounds like he was a total star, btw - but I bet he never challenged her behaviour either, did he?

Well I should think there are different levels of toxicity. Maybe it is a bad word yes, but it is obviously having a negative impact on your life. Was just googling the book and found this excerptwhich seems germane.

Excerpt #2 Keeping Children Dependent: No Separate Identity

Parents who feel good about themselves do not have to control their adult children. But the toxic parents we've met in this chapter operate from a deep sense of dissatisfaction with their lives and a fear of abandonment. Their child's independence is like the loss of a limb to them. As a child grows older, it becomes ever more important for the parent to pull the strings that keep the child dependent. As long as toxic parents can make their son or daughter feel like a child, they can maintain control.

As a result, adult children of controlling parents often have a very blurred sense of identity. They have trouble seeing themselves as separate beings from their parents. They can't distinguish their own needs from their parents' needs. They feel powerless.

All parents control their children until those children gain control of their own lives. In normal families, the transition occurs soon after adolescence. In toxic families, this healthy separation is delayed for years -- or forever. It can only occur after you have made the changes that will enable you to gain mastery over your own life.

He was a total star, a true gent. But no, he never challenged her behaviour. He waited on her hand and foot and barely got a word of thanks. She would often belittle him in front of others, and he would just take it. I so wish I could ask him why.

In the letter I just sent her, I told her how much of an effect losing my 'wonderful, lovely, safe , wise and stable Dad' has had on me. I also told her I never show emotion in front of her as there is only room for her to cry, amongst other stuff. The only thing she picked up on was the words I described my Dad with. She said it hurt her to read that as she must have been a terrible mother

I wrote a wonderful eulogy and read it as his funeral, afterwars she told me 'anyone would think i was never around when you were growing up listening to that' Was I supposed to mention her in my dad's eulogy?

Katisha I will buy that book, that sounds just like her. Thanks.

Oh DrNortherner, how awful

I really don't know what to say...

I thought having to ring my mum twice a week was bad enough and by god if I don't ring in the morning (say I have to go out) she then rings me by lunchtime wanting to know why I haven't phoned and demanding to know what I have been doing.

I ring her on a Tuesday and Saturday. Actually, the other Tuesday (I set off for work at 11.30am) I was trying to get a few jobs done before I rang her as she is always whining on about this that and the other and I am on the other end just going mmmm,mmmm, yes, no, oh right - she rang me at 10.25am asking why had I not phoned her? I was like in my head "believe it or not mum I have a life and a job and a home and two children and it does not always revolve around you".

My poor dad, I really feel sorry for him - she is so negative all the time and woe betide if any of us challenge it.

You have my sympathies.

Wow

She really is rather self-obsessed, eh?

That letter you wrote sounds spot-on. That's the sort of stuff she needs to hear

Might not make a jot of difference to how she behaves, but will make you feel better, I suspect

I wonder if you do more of this sort of thing consistently, your change in behaviour may have a positive effect on her, IYSWIM

I can empathise with you. My Mum can be like this. She is not as bad as yours and we do manage a good relationship, but there is no point in me discussing with her if she upset me etc. As you do, I always get it back at me how that has made her feel.

Trouble is it is all well and good saying she needs to take responsibility for her own feelings, but when you are dealing with someone who has no self awareness it is near impossible.

Is it always this bad? Or does it come in waves?

Could you pull back a bit? Try and call her less often and if she mentions it, be a bit breezy about it?

I doubt you will ever have an open relationship with her as she is incapable, but it needn't be all or nothing. You can try and manipulate it a bit so it is not so draining for you.

It's always been pretty bad, ovbiously more so since Dad died. She seems to think I am only referring to her after dad's death, when I am trying to explain she has always been like this.

You are right, she has no self awareness. So I am in effect talking to a brick wall.

Anyway, at least she can moan to all and sundry about how terrible her daughter is being to her.

It's my experience, when dealing with someone with no self-awareness and a very personal view of reality, that you can't change them or make them see your point of view. They just can't.
But what you can change is the way you let it affect you. I suspect that is what the Forward book tries to help with.

I also recommend that book, it is not a normal mother daughter relationship. My father is a horrible man with what I firmly believe is Narcassistic Personality Disorder.
When you confront someone like this with how awful they treat other people the first thing they will do is attack, saying how awful you are saying these things and being hurt by it.
If you back down now the cycle will go on and on, you need to find somewya of breaking it, whether it is cutting contact completely (for awhile at least) or otherwise.

I dof eel for you though, fwiw my mum and I are really close now, mostly since she left my father, and I talk to her 2 or 3 times a week and email her a couple of times too. She does live 200 miles away as well.

See, my Mum is not a horrible person. It's not premeditated hurt she causes, she really has no idea.

Dh and I have been married for 12 years, and all he knows of her is whining, crying, hysterics.

All of my friends, and dh's family know about my mums firmly problems because she cries, and tells them everything as soon as she sees them.

I know the onus was on me to ring her tonight, if I hadn't she would not have rung me. It's always my job to solve the shit.

She actually asked me 'so where do we go from here?' at the end of the phone call.

From excerpts again:

How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too.

Oh yes, that describes her completley. Maybe I should give her the book......

Sorry Dr, I didn;t mean that your mother was horrible, just that mine was, so that's where my story differs.
But she really does sound toxic.

I know you didn't mean that Jack! but you are right, she is toxic.

drnortherner, i am sorry about your dad. The whole dynamic with your mother must be so different now, and you have made a progressive step for you and her i feel. She won't see it now, may never get it, but you do need to be able to have your say.

i hope this will be the start of dealing with things towards some positives for you.
x

Have you both discussed the loss of your dad together or was the grieving over his death something you did separately? She probably misses him as much as you have.

Please confine your phone calls to her a minimum 10 minute chat every other night and see her once a week. You have your own life to lead and shouldn't be guiltily burdened by her obvious neediness.

I would suggest she get out more and fill the gap - does she like painting, photography, crafts or reading?. Or get her a laptop, big expense I know, and ask that she get broadband in so you can send emails and she can join forums. As you now know the internet is great for venting!

Finally book a high tea in a posh hotel (so you will enjoy too) and bring her out. Maybe do this bi monthy, with friends of yours involved. And enjoy it. However if it becomes a chore, stop. If she behaves like a child then take away the treats and she will soon come round.

You're behaving well despite your mum's appalling behaviour. I wish you good luck for the future.