I think my relationship with My Mum is beyond repair. I made the mistake of chellenging an emotional vampire, and now she is hurt..........

[DrNortherner]

In a nut shell My Mum is an emotional vampire. Always negative, alwyas the victim, people always hurt her. She has no close friends to speak of and has had many volatile feuds with her sisters and Mum.

I am an only child and for as long as I can remember her being negative, emotional and upset over things others would find trivial. She cries in public, and constantly uses phrases such as 'I had a break down in the supermarket today' and 'they have kicked me in the teeth again' I feel hugely responsible for her emotional welfare. She used guilt to ensure I ring her every day, she would show her displeasure if I was going out and hadn't told her as she perceives it as me not having time for her.

My Dad was wonderful. My lovely, safe, stable caring Dad, who was always there for me. He died in April 2009 and my world changed forever. Mopping up my Mother is tough, as Dad is no longer there for me. Since he died, Mum and I have clashed on many occassions, more so than ever before. I have flipped and told her ow she makes me feel because on Sunday eve she rang me as I was on my way out, I said I would call her the next day. I called her on Monday and she was hostile and arsey giving me one word answers and told me 'you are never bloody in to talk to me'. I lost it, and I'm afraid gave it to her full barrell about hw she makes me feel. I then wrote a letter explaining how difficult I am finding her behaviour.

I rang her tonight and got text book response from her 'how can you say that', 'you have hurt me' and 'that's unfair' She says things and then denises saying them, and conveniently forgets situations when I remind her.

She just told me tonight that I would have never dared speak to her like this if my Dad was alive. The reason I didn't was to protect him. His life was tough enough with her as it was, if I spoke out she would have been in pieces and he would be the one dealing with that, so I kept my mouth shut.

She thinks I am telling her she is a bad mother and that she has emotionally scarred me for life (her words not mine).

I can see no way out of this, but for me to button it and put up with her whining, negative personality.

Any advice greatly appreciated. I am at my wits end.

Thanks

Are you me?

We have probably grieved for him seperatley. I almost bristle when she breaks down because I have seen it so often, it's like I am immune to it.

She does volunteer in a local charity shop (my suggesstion), I have suggessted lots of other stuff, but she turns her nose up. She can't sleep, I suggest sleeping tablets (she doesn't like the thought of them), I suggesst reading in bed (she has no lamp...I offer to get one, but the cat won't let her read in bed.....good one that!) I suggest a TV in her room (she has never had one in the bedroom and won't start now)

She tried councelling, the councellor was rubbish, she won't talk to her GP because she doesn't like him, despite having the same GP for 30 years........

In her head, no one rings her and she never sees anyone. I remimd her it's not true, then get told I am defending them over her

MrsSchadenfreude - you in the same boat?

I phone my Mum every day, but not through duty, because I like chatting to her.

Do you have children of your own op?

It must be awful to feel that way about your own Mum.

Can you say 'gotta go' as soon as she makes the first negative comment. I know she would wallow in self pity if you cut her short, but maybe eventually you could 'train' her to keep the negativity to a minimum whilst she is on the phone to you.

I have an 8 year old ds.

Yes - they sound like identical twins. My Dad died in 1999. Your last post sounds word for word like my mother.

Her sister suggested she join Cruse as they had helped a friend of hers. But she "didn't want to go around with a load of old widows."

She won't go and visit friends - "they know where I live, they can come to me." And then moans when she doesn't see anyone all weekend.
"People make you sick." Oh, and no-one calls her.

I am "shit as a daughter."

Her sister has just been diagnosed with cancer. Her response? "Oh I can't go through all this again - I went through it with Dave and Jane, I can't go through it with you as well."

It's all about her. Always. And always an excuse for everything. Doctors? What do they know?

And it hasn't got better.

Hi - I can really identify with your post but recommend you read the book recommended. It helped me enormously to understand and rationalise my mothers behaviour although I haven't yet challenged it.

You have got to that point without the book so well done1 Basically I think it says you wont get closure until you challenge their behaviour.

My dad is alcohol dependant - I say alcoholic but he won't admit it and they facilitate each others behaviour.

I have withdrawn completely from them having had my own PND issues but used to ring every day. I have to have time for myself and my issues and now contact them on my terms. However I still feel pangs of guilt if I haven't spoken for a couple of days due to work etc

My mum's behavour came to a head when she visited me after the birth of my DD. She was a week old and a major family argument ensued between her and my sister as my sister actually challenged her about her toxic behaviour. I copped out of it as had serious PND and couldn't deal with it but my sis offered to help her get counselling etc. None of which has gone anywhere 2 years later and her behaviour has not improved. If any of us do something she doesn't like we get the silent treatment or one word answers. She can even do it via bloody webcam as she lives hundreds of miles away

Why don't you just call her on it? Stop allowing her to manipulate you? Even SAY "stop trying to manipulate me."

Stand by what you said. You meant it, you were reasonable to say it. She has 2 choices - deal with it or stay away.

If you back down and bend over backwards to try to smooth things over, then yet again she has 'won', she has manipulated you into doing what she wants, being how she wants. And if you back down she can tell herself you were being horrible and she can be your victim.

Whereas if you stand firm then you are not saying you were wrong to tell her straight and you are not buying into the whole poor me crap.

She is what she is. Maybe you'll never change that, but you don't need to let her get away with it.

Dr Northerner

I would certainly recommend you read "Toxic Parents" because ALL her actions towards you have been toxic ones. Your Dad was indeed a star and protected you throughout (they don't all do this but act instead as bystanders) but he could not stand up to her either.

Its all about her you see, all of it goes back to her. She won't ever apologise, take any responsibility for her actions or change as she at heart thinks she's done nothing wrong. These people "don't come round" and they cannot be reasoned with.

Also these problems can often become generational in nature; she could well start on your child too given the opportunity.

Do not be trapped in the FOG - fear, obligation, guilt. Many children, now adults, of toxic parent/s have FOG.

You may also want to post on the "Stately Homes" thread on these pages as their counsel too could be helpful.

Thanks all of you for your very helpful posts. MrsSchadenfreude - they do indeed sound like twins!
My Mum too won't ring any of her 5 sisters - they can all ring her. One sister's husband left her last month after 8 years of marriage and was ovbioulsy very upset, she tried to take an overdose. They all supported my aunt, but my mum actually aid that her sister was lucky as her husband hadn't died....she then also told me that she too nearly took an overdose the week before as she was having suicidal thoughts but she didn't tell me as she didn't want me to worry.

I am going through waves of feeling relieved I have challenged her, to getting a sinking feeling in my stomach. I know at some point she will tell me how upset all of this has made her etc etc.

She keeps hitting me with 'But I have no one else to turn to. Who can I talk to if I cant talk to my own daghter'

How do I make her realise I am not saying she can never be upset infront of me? She is not getting what I am saying.

It;s likely that she will never "get" what you are saying. This is also why counselling tends not to work for people like this Narcissists are the same kind of problem (where my experience comes from). They totally believe their own version of reality in which they are at teh centre of everything and are the victims of everyone else's wrong behaviour towards them, unless everyone else is behaving exactly as required.

She probably doesn't realise she is manipulative and may never realise it.

get the book and see if you can develop coping strategies. You may have to give up on the idea of changing her though. But you can change how it affects you.

My MIL is like this. It has gradually eroded her and DH's relationship to the point where DH only calls her under sufference, and only when he knows he has a get out ('Oh, sorry Mam, I have to go and fetch DS from cubs' etc). She blames me, as the english hussy who took her golden boy away. Her pain is worse than anyone else's, and her trump card is always 'My husband is dead'. We live in another country. Not helpful, I know, but you are not alone.

Hi

Also sounds a bit like my mother. I think my Mum has either narcissistic or borderline personality disorder....they can overlap. Your Mum sounds borderline to me.

I have a new baby (my 1st) and my Mum is having trouble not being in control/the most important person.
A brief example:- On a few occasions she rang the land line and it awoke my sleeping baby (early evening when baby most ratty!). So I politely asked her to call my mobile (as it is quieter and on vibrate) and said that I could then call her back using the landline.

Her response was 'turn the volume down on the phone' I said I would but phone still loud. She then suggested I move the phone to a different room, I stated I couldn't as is plugged into phone point. She then suggested that I put it in the cupboard!!!

Why can't you just ring my mobile?!!!

Because for once I stood my ground she hasn't phoned me for a month. She has told the rest of the family that she has 'given up phoning Isanotherday', and is acting like the hurt party.

My Dad also enables her behaviour and phones me from the garden!!! before asking if I would like to speak to Mum.

I confronted her again the other night and stated that I realised she had stopped phoning me and that she could phone me but 9pm would be a good time as I aim to put baby down at 8ish so should be well setlled by then,(still wakes through night at 14 weeks......). She replied 'I don't bother any more'. She is trying to punish me for attempting to be assertive.

Anyway, I see a long road ahead of me and I need to develop a backbone quickly....my rebellion has also lent to my parents arguing and my Mum is now clingy to my sis, they previously didn't get on.

I've just begun counselling and have had a book recommended called TA Today. Not bought it yet but think it explains the roles people play in families.

Realise have just talked about myself....but could see similarities, I just don't have the answers myself yet.

"She keeps hitting me with 'But I have no one else to turn to. Who can I talk to if I cant talk to my own daghter"

Call the bluff.

"I have no one else to turn to"
"whos fault is that?" or if you think that invites her to project the blame onto other people then why not say
"thats because you are so negative and bring people down, I come off the phone feeling really depressed after speaking to you"

I would say that but then I am a fairly aggressive character and also going through a lot of this stuff and am on the stately homes thread too.If you don't change the situation wont change.

Interesting aspect about friends, was thinking about how freinds in general are a challenge to our functioning, ie if they don't approve or think a path is good for us they'll gently challenge. People like your mum and my dad dont want those outside people to challenge their way of operating. Thats why they dont have any friends because those freinds, ie normal people, wont collude with this sort of behaviour.

She is an adult, and has choices as to how she operates, much as you do. I am trying to put this into practice myself, it isn't easy.

I guess it depends how angry you are right now and what you feel worst or best case scenario would be. I.e No further contact. Or limited contact on your terms only.

love from 1foot

Dr Northerner: I've posted on your threads about your mum before. Just because she's not abusive, doesn't mean she's not toxic.

I have to keep my mum a little bit at arm's length as she too, is a "cup half-empty" sort of person. I find that if I'm around her too much, it starts to bring me down and we can't have that

I don't have any advice for you, except that I hope that you do get to a place where you can manage your Mum's expectations.....

I think you need a break from her. I've read a lot of your threads and it seems like you're not getting any chance to grieve for your dad in the way that you need to.

Don't let her, however inadvertently, ruin your mental health as well. Whatever else, you need a bit of clear head space to work out how to move things on, and you'll never get that if you're constantly stuck in trench warfare with her.

My Dad had friends, and work collegues and he was a local councilor so they got invited to lots of dinners and funtions. My Mum would go, under duress, and moan that no one ever talked to her. She would always say that the women involved in politics all 'fancy themselves' So when Dad was alive she moaned about havig to go to these tings, now he is dead she moans she doesn't get invited anymore.

She moaned when my dad was out at meetings, when he was out canvassing. Yet to outsiders, she would say 'I support him all the way blah blah blah'

My dad even used to cut her toenails for her. 2 days after he died, she asked me to cut them for her Of course I refused.

She didn't wrap any of ds's christmas presents last year because my dad used to do the wrapping.

I could go on and on.

My Dad was a mason and my Mum used to moan about him going out to his meetings but whenever she was asked to go along to a monthly, fairly informal dinner with the masons and their wives, she'd moan about that too.... There's no pleasing some!

The similarities are uncanny aren't they?

I think my mum is the reason my dad kept himself so busy. He was 65 and had not even contemplated retiring. Sometimes he would come hoe from a meeting, she would have her face on, and ignore him or give one word answers, whilst he bent over backwards to smooth things over.

I find it very sad that so many people feel so negatively towards thir own Mums.

I do hope all of our kids are not saying the same things about us in 20 years time!

DrNortherner, do you think your Mum didn't want to wrap the presents because doing it might have upset her as it used to be your Dad's job? If your dad did all of these things for her, he must have loved her a great deal. I'm sure she has some positive qualities that you can focus on, otherwise a nice man like your Dad wouldn't have married her.

I lost my Dad 9 years ago and I understand how hard it is, my Mum is all I have left and I want to make the most of the time I have with her as I know I will regret it otherwise.

Framey, I think if you've never experienced that sort of treatment from a parent you couldn't possibly understand.

My mother shares similar traits to those described here, even down to the present wrapping. When I told her my DH was an alcoholic 3 years ago she even managed to make it about her!

We had a big argument last year when she visited me at home. I had a newborn and a 2 year old at the time and she watched me struggle to do everything without lifting a finger to help, yet she told everyone how lucky I was that she was there to help. Various other things had niggled over the years and the sleep deprivation triggered an outburst from me. Things have been better since I stood up to her, and when she slips back to her old ways I stop contact for a while. I actually think our relationship is getting better.

DrN - what were her own relationships with her parents like? I imagine they were pretty bad for her to have turned out like this. Would it help you to be able to focus on that and understand why she is like she is.

She sounds a nightmare; I feel for you.