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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Driving Ex to suicide over contact with DD

52 replies

tippytap · 01/06/2010 22:53

I split up with my ex-partner 3 years ago. Our DD is now four and contact between us is agreed.

The problem is "extra" contact. My ex regularly (at least once a fortnight) contacts me wanting to see our DD on days that we have agreed are mine to spend with her.

In the past, to try to keep things friendly, my ex has come round on my days off, when I am at home with DD, for an hour or so. To be honest, I found this very stressful, but thought that I was being nice.

I then realised that whenever I asked to see our DD when it was his time to see her, or even to have her brought home half hour early, I was always told "no".

His reason being, that as I see DD more than him, I should always agree to him seeing her whenever he wants, whereas his time is "precious" and there is no flexibility to be had.

I've tried to point out the unfairness in this and that I don't take the mick and honestly don't think that requesting our DD be brought home half hour early on a Bank Holiday MOnday - when her has her EVERY Monday and so every Bank Holiday Monday is unreasonable.

Today was the second time in a month that he has asked to see our DD on a Weds. I work 30 hrs/week and as it's half term, I booked the week off of work specifically to spend time with our DD. Bearing in mind my Ex had our DD Sat/Sun and Mon of this week, I said no to him coming over on Wednesday and "taking her out" for our couple of hours.

I then overheard him talking to our DD on the phone this evening to the effect that if anything happened to him, his parents would look after her. I took the phone from our DD and asked what was going on. He was crying and told me that I'd driven him to the edge.

This is not the first time he's threatened to kill himself. The last time was only a couple of weeks ago, when I again said that he couldn't see DD on a day that I had her.

In the past my Ex has been very controlling bullying towards me. His justification is that it was my fault for not standing up for myself. When we were together, he threatened suicide when I was going to leave him after I found out about his (first) affair.

This though, has just made me so angry.

I am sorry if he has mental health issues, but he should not be saying things like this to our DD and I plan on sending him an email explaining this and that if he's not well, he should be seeking appropriate treatment.

To be honest, I don't know if he's serious, or if it's a reaction to not getting his own way, and that makes me feel guilty - that I'm doubting that he is ill and if he is, that as he says, it's my fault for making him ill.

Not sure why I'm posting this really and it is a bit long.

I think that I sound very uncaring, don't I?

I just don't know what to do.

T

OP posts:
SparklyJules · 01/06/2010 22:58

Well he wouldn't be seeing much of her if he was dead would he? And saying this stuff down the phone to her, and she's only four? I would be questioning if it was safe to let her go to him after this.

You know what I'm trying to say dont' you?

scurryfunge · 01/06/2010 22:58

Warning bells here....do not let your child anywhere near him if he is threatening suicide....get yourself to a solicitor and formalise access. It may be just emotional abuse of both you and yourchild but you cannot be sure.....if he thinks suicide is an option then your child is not safe.

Hassled · 01/06/2010 22:58

You don't sound uncaring at all - your reaction is completely fair enough. He absolutely should not be talking to a 4 year old about this sort of stuff, and if being unable to see his DD on a Wednesday genuinely drives him to suicidal thoughts then yes, he needs help.

You can point this out to him, but other than that there is little you can do. I doubt he's suicidal - I think it's a form of control. It's a stick he has to beat you with - don't let him.

JaynieB · 01/06/2010 23:02

I'd be very worried indeed about this behaviour and I don't think you're being uncaring or unreasonable - your daughters safety has to come first. If he isn't 'suicidal' this is first class evil manipulation and if he is, then he is a hazard to himself and possibly her.

RedLeaves · 01/06/2010 23:03

What a horrible man to say that to your daughter.

Sounds like he is just carrying on his bullying, abusive behaviour to you even though you have split up.

I don't know how you have drawn up the contact times but maybe it is time for a solicitor to reaffirm them to your ex and for you both to never have extra time. I can see why you copied him but it would be much better if you stuck to your days and times too 100% of the time. He will have to too. Then you have the knowledge that you are 100% right to say no.

Blackmail like this is terrible and I really feel for you. I think you are right to email him and say if he is ill then to seek medical help. Certainly tell him how inappropriate it is to say that kind of thing to your poor daughter.

Someone else will probably come along who knows a lot more than me about these things but I wanted to answer you and wish you well.

CoronaAndLime · 01/06/2010 23:03

Big fat warning bells here too.

If he is so ill that he really might top himself then you cant let him take your Dd on his own.

If he is not unwell then what he has said to your Dd is abuse and you cant let that happen.

See either way you need to stop un-supervised access NOW and get legal advise asap.

booyhoo · 01/06/2010 23:07

he is trying to manipulate you. do not agree anything when he threatens this. infact. i agree with others. speak to your solicitor as he is clearly not above using your DD and telling her things she should not be part of.

Quattrocento · 01/06/2010 23:08

I can sense your alarm, and understand how awful this is for you

You need to make a difficult choice now. Is he capable of killing himself? Ultimately is he capable of harming your DD as well? Should he have any unsupervised access?

TheCrackFox · 01/06/2010 23:08

You need legal advice. It is completely wrong for him to be talking like that to his DD.

EightiesChick · 01/06/2010 23:09

He is acting totally unacceptably to your DD and she must be put first, whatever his issues. Get legal advice. You are not being unkind or unfair, just taking care of your DD which has to be your top priority.

Original poster
tippytap · 01/06/2010 23:09

I am worried. Very worried.

I've spoken to a solicitor before and the gist of it went that if he's suicidal, he's a threat to himself only. He hasn't threatened our DD at all.

I'm more worried that he's just trying to get his own way, but can't see how I'm going to find out one way or another.

D'you think it would be unreasonable to say that if his behaviour doesn't improve that I will insist on supervised contact, say with his Mum, until I've got confirmation from a Doctor that he's no danger to our DD?

OP posts:
Original poster
tippytap · 01/06/2010 23:11

sorry cross posted with about 5 of you.x

OP posts:
MmeLindt · 01/06/2010 23:11

Have you just agreed between yourselves about contact or was it court ordered?

Speak to your solicitor either way. He should not be saying things like that to your DD. Poor child, she is much too young to be dealing with her father's mental health problems.

scurryfunge · 01/06/2010 23:12

Definately...how can anyone know that he is only a threat to himself? Your child comes first......supervised contact only, if any.

MmeLindt · 01/06/2010 23:13

I would get advice elsewhere, if your solicitor is being unhelpful.

It sounds very worrying. Who is to say he is only a danger to himself? Supervised contact sounds good.

Do you have a reasonable relationship with his mum?

Original poster
tippytap · 01/06/2010 23:15

Yes, she is too young. MUCH too young. Luckily, I don't really think she understood what he was saying.

Contact was agreed between us.#

Currently - every other weekend Sat/Sun. He sees her every Monday and, one weekend a month he has her on a Sun night of "my" weekend.

From September, when DD starts school - every Thurs night and every other weekend he will have her Thurs-Sun.

I have one of his suicide threats in writing - he sent me an email sayin that if anything happened to him, it would be my fault 100%.

OP posts:
Original poster
tippytap · 01/06/2010 23:17

MmeL - I get on very well with his Mum, but she is totally blind as to his character. She told me only last week, that the reason we split up was bcause we were "both strong minded individuals". Erm no, her son was a bullying, manipulative and had numerous affairs.....

OP posts:
Hodie · 01/06/2010 23:21

He is seeking attention. Ignore his pathetic ways.

Lay down a few rules, i.e. tell him that his suicidal nonsense will not be tolerated and that if he carries on with it, he will not see her. See how that pans out.

Good luck.

Marjoriew · 01/06/2010 23:21

He is manipulating your child and you should get legal advice and get the contact defined, so that you both know where you stand.
In this situation, I would be asking for supervised contact at a mutual venue, i.e. a contact centre.
His behaviour towards your little girl is inappropriate and others may think that what he says to her is beyond her understanding, but I can assure you that I have been where you are when my children were younger. They are now adults with children of their own, and, believe me, it has repercussions for them into their adult lives.
He has no business being in charge of a child.

Original poster
tippytap · 01/06/2010 23:26

Marjorie,

Can you please explain a little more? FRom things my DD says, I think that he tries to emphasise how long it is between when he sees her. She came home crying the other day saying that she wouldn't see Daddy for seven whole days. At four, she has no idea of when she'll see him next, let along what seven days is.

He also said once that the "bond" between me and DD was "too strong" and that it should be broken.

God, he sounds awful, doesn't he?

I feel so powerless - the solicitor that I've seen basically told me to get on with it an the only time that the Court would intervene would be if we couldn't agree.

OP posts:
ItsGraceAgain · 01/06/2010 23:36

How absolutely horrible for you. No wonder you feel churned up - and that was his objective, wasn't it? Grrrr.

To confuse a 4-year-old like that is just unforgiveable. If anything happened to him, YOU would look after her like you do now, ffs!! He was trying to shake her childish faith that she lives with mummy (permanent, as far as she's concerned) and has evidently been trying, also, to dislodge her security that both her mother and father love her. This is outrageous. I'm FUMING!!!

I'd sepak to your solicitor about making some sort of formal complaint about it. I don't know how such things work. he's emotionally abusing her as well as you, and it should be noted as such.

He's not very likely to kill himself. Worse luck.

Original poster
tippytap · 01/06/2010 23:41

Grace,

Yes, exactly. I feel awful.

And yep, I think you're right with him trying to shake her faith.

I don't think he expected me to hear - I heard DD say "Mummy's in the kitchen". He didn't realise that she puts the phone on speaker, as she doesn't like holding it to her ear.

I just don't get how anyone can be that self centred as to try to "get at" a four year old.

OP posts:
Marjoriew · 01/06/2010 23:44

I think they call it Parental Alienation Sydrome, although I didn't know it at the time.
My ex used to say things to the children when he had them in the car. He once said to them when they were driving over a bridge, 'Mum's going to jump off there one of these days.' When confronted, he would just say they were lying.
Some of the stuff he used to say to them, I didn't hear about it until they were much older, and came to realise that some of their behaviours as children were more clear to me now than at the time.

As far as your solicitor is concerned, I'd sack him/her and find someone who will be on your side and more so will act in the best interests of your child, as that is what the Children Act is supposed to be for.
It's no good waiting until your littlie is older and then having to undo the damage done by someone who has followed their own agenda.
Children shouldn't hear these sorts of things from someone who is supposed to love them.

Original poster
tippytap · 01/06/2010 23:46

Marjorie - I am so sorry. That must've been awful for you.

It just gets worse. I thought after splitting up that things would settle down, but then stuff like this happens.

Does anyoneknow how to pick a good solicitor? Last time I just looked in the yellow pages for one who was local and specialised in family law.

OP posts:
ItsGraceAgain · 01/06/2010 23:48

Sadly, people like that do it for fun.

It's a game to them. Neither of you are actual people to him - not in the way we mean 'people', with lives of their own and feelings and stuff. You exist only as toys, through which he channels his own feelings. Much as your DD would use her toys to express her mood.

Don't give him a centimetre more, in any sense. And stop the extra access. I'm all in favour of leveraging his suicide threat to restrict access, if that can be done.

I'm so sorry you're having to put up with all this. But I'm extremely glad he's away from you now!