what about sisterhood?

[babehunmug]

Hi I'm fairly new here. I posted something about my DH and his OW and was surprised at a couple of replies that seemed to be saying its all DH's fault and that OW has not committed to me so don't blame her.

Now that has surprised me cos I believe in the sisterhood and have always steered well clear of married men or men that I know already have a partner. Why? because life is difficult enough without making it worse for a fellow(?)-woman. Before this OW appeared I always thought I wouldn't like this to happen to me so I'm not ever going to facilitate it for a man who might be tempted to cheat and cause pain and suffering to his wife/partner and children and all the other people that get hurt in the process.

Is there no more sisterhood?

The worst part is when the dcs are crying , pity the ow never sees this or has to explain to them. Mine hate her with a vengeance.

Absolutley dignified. My H never sees this either, he thinks the DC are coping well, and as they are late teens seems to think they will come around to his way of thinking and be mature about it all , i.e. that OW is a nice person.

Ha, what does he know. They both say they never want to meet her, ever.

He sees them very occasionally, his loss.

I'm left picking up the pieces and dealing with my own sadness too.

partytime why did your marriage actually end? It wasn't because your H and the OW plotted to achieve that end. There must have been something seriously wrong for your H to effective lose his kids in order to escape his married life.

Which as it happens is not what's going on in my situation; as I said MM and his wife have a long and stable marriage which he does not want to leave, and he would never risk his children, even though they are older.

And honestly, his wife is very unlikely to find out. She cannot follow him to my house (logistics). The only obvious way she'd ever know was if I turned up on their doorstep and told her. Which I never would.

There must have been something seriously wrong for your H to effective lose his kids in order to escape his married life.

I think that was possibly a badly thought out comment that Partytime will probably find deeply hurtfull , although you probably didnt mean it too.Still, im glad your questioning it as its a common held beleif.

Married men arse about because they THINK there going to get away with it, they dont think theyre going to get caught, like yours doesnt. The way they usually behave when caught, begging, pleading for forgiveness, promising everything to keep their marriage usually indicates that in fact there was nothing wrong in their marriages at all , they fight desperateley to keep it.

They just fancied a bit extra, and stupidly didnt think they were going to get caught, like the kid who feels entitled to another cookie when no ones looking.

Ow made a similar suggestion at the time. I pointed out that if my marriage was so crap, why did he not run off with her, as opposed to begging and pleading to stay ? Why was he now referring to her as a mistake who meant nothing and fighting to save his marriage?

You might think theres a problem with logistics, but you would be surprised how intuitive wives are, when you live with someone you often know, its not hard to find out, no matter the distance or any other obstacles.

In short i think they are selfish bastards. How would your mm feel if you developed a relationship with another man ? Would he accept this and still see you ? What about his wife , would he accept similar behaviour from her ? Hes on a good deal really.

In short, they clearly think they are entitled to more than one partner, whilst their wives / mistresses are not. I have never heard of a scenario where the ow meets someone else, but i would love to hear the response from the mm !

The thing that annoys me most, is that while they are happy to shag about and have their egos stroked, they do not allow their wives the same luxery, they have the arrogance to insist on faithfullness from their wives while they enjoy another woman. I dont think id want to know a man who had that idea about women.

"There must have been something seriously wrong for your H to effective lose his kids in order to escape his married life"

That's the usual excuse for not taking any responsibility for hurt caused isn't it? Something must be wrong with your marriage to begin with. I don't believe that, I think it's pat and glib and Pontius Pilate-like. Agree with Dignified on this. Often affairs happen simply because of opportunity, selfishness and an absolute certainty that no-one will be found out - it doesn't necessarily indicate a deep-rooted problem in the marriage. It may however, cause a deep-rooted problem in the marriage when there wasn't one there before. Nice thing to do to someone else...

Oh that is a horrible thing to say

I really think Endedup has a lot of anger here.

It's not normal behaviour, really, is it.

Much as I loathe to hear the awful slagging off of mistresses - some of these posts are revolting, and the words used just make the wronged wives look terrible - I don't think you can ever tell someone their marriage is deeply flawed because it's not necessarily the case, plus very hurtful.

Partytime, on the contrary it sounds as though you are deflecting big time. The mistress gets 'whore/slapper/slut' etc etc for an entire post and then your H gets 'he knows how angry and disappointed in him I am' as almost an afterthought.

So basically all the plagues and curses of hell onto her, but he's just been a bit of a naughty boy? I imagine she accepted something he chose to offer her...it's horrid, of course it is, but I cannot see how she is MORE to blame than he is? I am sorry this has happened, anyway.

Yup, that was a mean statement to throw at someone who has lost so much due to their H's involvement with someone just like you.

Why project your own delusions onto someone else? Because you quite obviously are deluded.

If men who have affairs do so because of issues within their 'real' relationship, why would men like my X then spend over 2 years trying to get back together with me after swiftly dumping OW when I found out?

I suppose for someone like you, its preferable to believe anything other than accept that you are probably viewed and used as little more than meat on feet and that for that enviable status, you are playing a part in damaging several innocent lives.

I have recently found out that one of my married best friends has been having an affair with a MM.

She confessed because it was all going to come out anyway, it's been going on for years.

So, she chose me to unload all the gory details on. Mainly because I told her that I had suspected all along, and because out of all of our friends I am the least likely to judge/cast blame.

If you remove her dh/marriage from the equation and just assess her behaviour as an OW, you'll see that they are not always the blameless party.

DF knows the wife. They sometime socialise as their DH's work together.

The MM has no children with his wife, but does have one from an earlier relationship. She regularly invited the DC to stay, on days out etc.. Mainly so she could have contact with either to OM or the wife. She now has photos of the DS which she's taunting the wife with now its come out.

She learned through her DH that the wife was trying to persuade the OM to have a child together, and admits that she talked him out of it.

She's never liked the wife because she has a lot of "family" money... Which she has spent on some things for the OM, so my friend thinks this makes her a mug! The wife has on numerous occasions found the secret sim, but always believed whatever her DH told her.. Eg: he's just holding it for one of the lads at work..
This also makes her stupid apparently.

There's more, but I have to go to work, and I think I've proved my point.
I've made my friend sound like an awful person, which she really isn't/wasn't. To an extent she has also been taken in by him because a lot of her justification rests on things he's told her iyswim.

However I'd be lying if I said this won't change how I feel about her. It's all very fresh and I haven't really had a chance to respond yet. I don't know how I'm going to..

I think when she was hysterically laughing about the overweight, worn out, worn down, pathetic wife. Whose entire life has been walked over and turned inside out. She forgot that that was once me. Before DH my exP did this to me. He invited a woman who knew me and admitted to my face that she "didn't like me" into my life and my home. She enjoyed knowing that I was working to pay bills while he paid for phones and hotels etc.. And when it all came out, it was me she called/texted to impart all the gory details on. Even now, if I see her, she likes to point me out to whoever she's with.

So it infuriates me when I see the "she owes you nothing" arguement on here. Not all OW fit into that bracket. A lot of them know exactly what they're doing and they should be answerable for that!

Yes there are OW who owe you nothing.

I don't think it means there has to be something wrong with the marriage, but it does indicate something wrong in the bloke and the way he handles things/ thinks/ etc.

That has no reflection on his wife.

Lou...that sounds really bad, what a mess

I wondered something for a long time, and that is does it make any difference whatsoever if the OW apologises to the wife?

Or is this seen as an attempt to clear one's conscience, and doesn't help the wife at all?

solidgoldbrass - just wanted to say that I thought your post hit the nail on the head. Sometimes both cheating parties are self-serving, selfish pigs, and sometimes just sad and unhappy people who aren't bad, just dealing with things in a bad way.

Personally I think conducting a long-term affair is a very humiliating thing to do to one's partner. Even if you feel certain that you've met "the love of your life", and that does happen, then surely this love can wait a while (even years) until you get a divorce from your current DH or DW?

endedupanOW Mon 31-May-10 21:18:51
Your comments are deeply hurtful and offensive, you do not know me or my H.

Our marriage was happy and if you read any of the treads I have been on you will see all explained.

My H will still say he didn't want to leave the marriage but I did say to him that I couldn't accept a situation where he lived with me and continued to see OW - his choice.

If you also read posts by others in this situation an affair is not always caused by dissatisfaction or being in an unhappy marriage.

Dignified, Herbeatitude, Fliight and Ecomouse, I would like to thank you for the responses to the above post, I would have replied sooner but have been away.

Fliight - no deflection, I have called him much worse, and he gets my anger both barrels, he is under no illusions. They are both equally culpable, and I have said as much on here.

I agree with all you say and feel OP has a lot of anger and bitterness in her own situation.

I would like to add that I realise that sometimes marriages don't work out for what ever reason, I wouldn't want to be in an unhappy relationship but I would have the decency not to lie, cheat and deceive, and I would finish one relationship before starting the next, out of common decency and respect.

Good and fair post, Partytime.

I totally concur with your last sentence and think any sort of deceit is pretty horrible, and unnecessary. It takes a bit of courage to end a relationship before starting a new one, but it's just something people should do if they have any respect for the person they are with, and themselves.

Fliight - thank you.

I try and be fair to all people I come across in my life, I hope that I would not pass judgement on anyone or how they live their lives.

I am not bitter nor resentful, just hurt and filled with sadness, that someone who I have loved for 25+ years, who still claims to love me, with whom I have 2 DC and have built a life with, that I thought would last, could act so 'out of character' with such a lack of consideration for the consequences.

Sorry last but one post referred to OP meant to say EndedupanOW

Lou, i think thats interesting , they usually have to confide all in someone , it makes for unpleasant chats doesnt it , and theres often an element of glee involved ( not saying this is happening in your case endup )

Its also interesting how affairs are glamourised , the word " mistress " conjours up images of a stocking clad loveley and men are often admired for their affairs by other men , and excused too.Look at the many films and soaps that glamourise it but never show the real consequences. Its all very exciting and sexy, the couples involved often very attractive, not balding podgy men and greying housewives.

I wonder if some of this stems from the idea that other people can make us happy , fill that gaping hole that we often have.
My ex was always looking to others to make him happy , he lacked the capacity to be able to do this himself.In all honesty he was a miserable self centred sod who constantly fed off others like an emotional leech.

Ive often heard it described as coming home, a connection, blah blah. Clearly something is missing, and i think its a little bit of themselves ,they look outwards to find it, and do, for a while , in the ridiculous fantasys they create. And thats all it is , a fantasy based on lies and fake people who dont really exist.

Ive noticed too, they are not very discriminate in finding affair partners. Mine was attracted to women who were vulnerable, loneley , previously had been abused and were easily flattered by the attentions of this over weight middle aged man whos wife didnt understand him.

Endup , have you ever read the anatomy of an affair ?

Partytime: I apologise for offending you but I was addressing the language you used in one of your earlier posts when you said your H and the OW plotted together to end your marriage as if the whole thing was contrived to be a personal attack on you.

I haven't read your other threads but am guessing your H did not premeditate his affair, nor in the beginning expect it to turn serious, nor lead to the breakdown of his marriage.

However I'm of the opinion that a man would not leave a good marriage. He might have an affair, he might even get caught, but he'd make the decision to stay (and usually they are given the choice, because usually the wife wants to keep the family together).

If subsequent to being found out the man decides to leave his marriage then surely it's clear that there is no longer any relationship there to sustain.

And yes, obviously the man should make this decision by himself before entering into another relationship. But sometimes I guess it's not until he's in a different relationship that he begins to reassess whether or not he was happy in the first place.

Plenty of people - men and women - roll along in long term relationships for years, out of habit more than anything else, or if they're too worried about the consequences of leaving. And they just accept the fact of being only 40 or 50 per cent happy with their lives until something comes along that jolts that number up.

No, I've never read Anatomy of an Affair. If it's anything like Ecomouse's post I'd steer well clear! She's written about a woman (OW) who is apparently slightly crazy - taunting the wife with photos of DC?! That's what I posted on here to argue against in the first place: the notion that all OW are lunatic harpies with their witches' claws stuck deep into your husbands, desperate not to let go and intent on causing as much anguish as possible if they are forced to do so.

Also a couple of you have said I seem to be 'angry' about something. What is that supposed to be, exactly? I'm in a relationship that is not what I would have wished for myself but I'm doing pretty well at being circumspect about it. I'm not exorcising any subliminal hatreds through this guy. We have sex and chat and eat and laugh together. I am the complete opposite of a threat to his wife and frankly they are welcome to spend the rest of their lives together because I don't want any more of/from him than the above.

Sorry not Ecomouse's post, LoulouCapone's post, about her friend.

And I certainly don't discuss my relationship with any glee. My (one) friend who knows says, How's X, are you still seeing each other? and I say Fine, yes we are, and that's about it.

Endedup - I have trouble with your suggestion that a man would not leave a good marriage.

Many times a person will leave a marriage not because it is bad, but because they cannot cope with it - for whatever reason, an emotional block, attachment problems, alcoholism - there are all sorts of things that can be wrong with the person, not the marriage itself though of course you can't really have a good marriage with the person being so non-ready for that kind of relationship. So I guess by default any marriage this person has will be bad.

I think often though the compatibility isn't at fault, it is just some glitch with the person who feels compelled to have the affair.

And usually they will take this problem into their next relationship, too.

Not to say all affairs happen like that - sometimes the person not having the affair might be nearer to the root of the marriage crisis, and the affair-haver is responding to this and trying to escape.

Endupanow - hopefully you will not have to share more than you bargain for. Such as STD's - but then of course your lover is being completly honest with you so you have probably minimised the that risk anyway .

I am not judging you btw - i too have in the past found myself close to having an affair so i can understand how it happens.

But i suppose if you dont mind continuing with any activity that you know could cause a lot of heartache you will have to live with that.

No, its not a book about mad women or anything ! I skimmed through the authors website once and it was very interesting. Aparently there are several types of affairs that sadly seem to follow a similar pattern.
Affairs are predictable if nothing else.

I dont agree that men wont leave a good marriage. The time you and mm spend together are differant to the time he spends with his wife. She probably has children to care for , housework to do ect. Presumably you dont do the ironing when hes around, i imagine you are just focused on each other.

That doesnt mean his marriage isnt good, it means he enjoys the fantasy and the attention he gets from you.Hes probably sensible enough to know that if he was with you full time it wouldnt be like it is now , as you say it isnt his first affair.

Men do leave good marriages under the idea that they and ow will be loved up and live happily ever after. Throw in a couple of kids and housework and lifes general stuff and your back to where you started.

If men only leave bad marriages where they arent happy, then how come the sucess rate for an affair turning into a long term relationship stands at about 1 per cent ( or so ive read )

I am the complete opposite of a threat to his wife

So you are a non threat ?
I really struggle with that Endup , of course you are a threat. You are a threat to his marriage and his children , and if his wife knew i bet hed be out of the door, not having his teas made and his clothes washed and enjoying sex with her.

Would you like to have discovered as a little girl that your dad was having an affair and lying to your mum ? Even at a young age would you really not have felt the ow was a direct threat to your family ?

I wonder why you have settled for only half a relationship with this guy where you are clearly second best and are probably visted pureley for the purpose of him having sex with you. Really , while you might not want a full time relationship ( i dont ) do you not feel you at least deserve someone where you come first?

May I ask something else, while we are on the subject?

say that you find someone attractive but don't let them know, never act on it and just try not to get involved...and then one day they tell you they are leaving their wife because they aren't happy, and want to be with you.

Would you still count as an OW and therefore need to shoulder some of the responsibility?

Or is that only the case if you actually have a proper affair with them while they are married still? I guess it is a grey area if a sort of emotional affair is involved.