Money and ex-wife

[dontaskme]

I am new here so not sure whether my situation qualifies as a 'problem' compared with some of the nightmare scenarios on here.
Anyway, married DH 11 years ago, both of us married before. He divorced before we met, both his DC left home, independent.
When they divorced his ex, who never worked, kept all the equity in the house plus a new mortgage paid by him so she could move house. Within a few months she had sold this house and moved in with boyfriend whom she subsequently married.
My DH continued to pay her maintenance after she moved in with her new partner and had to take out a big mortgage so we could buy a modest house together.
His ex's husband died a few years later leaving her with a huge house, paid for, and I suppose life insurance.
Last year I found some bank statements saying he had been giving her £400 a month. When I asked him about this he said she had loaned him £5K to pay a tax bill (he is self-employed) and that the money to her was repayments. I knew nothing about this and was upset that I had been excluded from this decision.
So, being me, I started looking through more paperwork and found dozens of cash transfers to her over a number of years - usually £100. When I asked about this he said she finds it hard to make ends meet and had phoned him in tears saying she can't afford to buy groceries, so he felt sorry for her.
He says I don't go short so he can't see the problem. Yet I have to fight to get him to buy anything new for the house.
I know his children know about this money so I feel that his ex and his kids have been told not to let me know about it.
My DH has just paid £3k so his 30 year old son can have a honeymoon in the Maldives. I have never had a holiday like that.
I suspect his contact with the ex has now gone underground so I won't cause any more trouble.
This is part of an on-going problem I have had over the years with the feeling that my DH's first family and his mum have remained his chief concern.
Is it me?

I wonder then why you and your hubby are the one's with debts now then? when he is not spending the money on you from your posts and your needs are last, do you actually have contact with the other people in his life that come one, two and three to know if that is the case or if he has someone else with him during the week that is the reason for the secrecy, the living apart and the loss of massive amounts of money, do you think the holiday was for him and someone else and not his son at all? when he accused his ex wife of being the one to be the cause of his debts in the marriage, it makes no sense, why would someone who got into debt now have lots of assets.... and she suddenly turn around and turns over a new leaf with her finanical behaviour?, you say he is secretive and you don't live with him during the week, so you only see him at weekends I take it? it all seem suspicious to me...I think you are being spun a line actually by your hubby and he is the one that is bad with money, he is keeping secrets and blaming his stuff on other people, that absent minded professor trick, if he does not do a b c his wife will turn the kids against him, I think he is spinning you lines and you are falling for it, I wish you luck x

The other thing is if he is mean with money with you, he will have been with her too, I do think that she probably only got herself and the kids the clothes they needed, and things for the house that were needed, and he probably is the sort to resent anyone having anything but him, I would be interested in knowing if you have contact with the rest of his family or not, to know if he really is putting them before you, it was probably him running up debts for his stuff and keeping secrets from his ex wife too... I would be interested if I was you in finding out her side of the story, it may help you to fathom what he is up to, as it does not look good, you seem to be trusting and to love the man and no one deserves to be treated like you are,if I am right, I hope that you find out what is behind the secrecy and loss of big chunks of money soon.

You are very matter of fact about your husband keeping his finances separate. Perhaps there is a very deep theme running through your relationship about the idea of partnership being different. You should talk to your husband, making you feel like the outsider in your own marriage is really not on.

Mummie, you are rather hysterical in your responses. Could you be a little more measured? I cannot see anywhere in this where Op's DH is up to something. You seem to be reading much more into this than actually possible from the limited information.

I think the XW is a bit of a parasite TBH. She may have given up her career to raise her (and OP's H's) children, but they are now adults and she remarried and was left a legacy by her second husband. I don't think she's entitled to any more support from her XH.
(Paying for the son's honeymoon is a different matter, that I think is understandable and a loving father's gesture).

SGB, that was my reading of it too. Nicely put.

The ex has no dependant children, has a new life, has remarried (and been widowed but that's not the exh's fault). There should be no financial link between them at all except in dire emergencies.

OP has every right to feel let down, deceived and excluded by her dh. Definitely time to go somewhere and talk, get it all out in the open.

Dontask, the other thing is you are not "causing trouble". You shouldn't feel like that, you're his wife and you have every right to be included.

Once again, the most sensible post is SGBs!!!

Posie - the issue or partnership is something I have struggled with for some time. It's hard to explain but I feel with DH and me there is no us IYKWIM. I think it's a result of his habitual non-communication, so I tend to find out things by accident. For example, he will go out for a meal with his DC and when I ask him what they talked about he'll say he can't remember.
When I first met him we went to a school play where his ex and her new partner there. He told me later that she had said 'you can do better than that' meaning me. I think it was the fact that he told me what she's said that hurt more than her, biased, opinion.
It sounds petty, but instances like that have contributed to the feeling that I am an outsider in some way.
We have talked about all this at length but my DH is a very passive person who will do anything to keep the peace. Trouble is he wants to keep the peace with everyone,all the time, so treats everyone the same. I just think he and I should put us first for a change.

SGB and Kathyjelly - than you for your input. Sometimes we want to feel that other people understand what we are trying to say. I don't want to bitch about DH's ex but she has rather taken advantage of the whole situation.

Do you and H have dc of your own? Do you work?
Just curious.
It doesn't sound like much of a partnership to me, his money shouldn't be his money, its both of your money and he should be open about what he does with it IMO. Even spending money on the honeymoon should have been a joint decision, especially as it was on the credit card and not money he already had.
You obviously trust him, and you know him better than us, but I'd still be a bit about all this. But then I'm a cynical old cow really

Dontask ..... would your H agree to counselling about this ? You could sell it to him as an opportunity for you both to air your views but FWIW, I think you have every right to feel hurt and upset. There's the lying, the double standards (eg. subbing EX but refusing to spend similar amounts on your home) and his apparently willing assumption of responsibility for someone who has since remarried (albeit now widowed).

I'm not surprised you feel bottom of the heap. As others have said, generosity to adult children is fine - if you can afford it, and if it's agreed jointly - but supporting his ex wife (above and beyond any legal obligation, eg. the terms of a previous court order) isn't something he has to do and whilst this might be explained away as simple generosity it doesn't add up when his attitude to you - his current (and hopefully last) wife is so different. No question about it, you should be his 1st priority. I obviously don't know the circumstances of his divorce, but is there any possibility he still feels residual guilt over how things ended (and the money is a way of assuaging that ?) or, even after all these years and the fact they're adults, does he believe that if he didn't help her out, his ex would stir up trouble between him and his children ? If so, these are the sorts of issues that counselling might help with.

To my mind, unless, as I said earlier, he had a court ordered obligation to her, his responsibility to her definitely ended when she remarried (if not before, when the kids became adults). Most court orders of that ilk usually stipulate that spousal maintenance ends on remarriage anyway. Once remarried, the ex and her new husband would surely, like most couples, have discussed their finances - currently and in the future - made wills, took out life insurance etc ..... as indeed they seem to have done so far as you know, and the fact she was married before would have become an irrelevance so far as continuing financial support was concerned. Having remarried, whether she was widowed or not, I simply don't understand why so many respondents seem to believe that because her husband died, responsibility for her now seems to have been passed back to her first husband ?!? That's certainly not the case legally, but nor do I think it the case morally either. Both parties are supposed to have moved on, and if ex wife and her new husband didn't have the sense to put their financial affairs in order, why does that become her ex husban's problem ?

Regardless then of them once being married to each other, if she asked him for money - as a friend or acquaintance - which is all she is now, that request (or requests) should have been discussed with Dontask if there was even the slightest possibility her husband was considering them. If she was in genuine trouble, and if the money could be afforded, perhaps a one off gesture wouldn't be out of the question ...... but regular top-ups are grossly unfair. From what the OP has said, it doesn't sound like this woman has had terrible luck, or genuine emergencies, but is inclined to overspend and/or mismanage her money and sees Dontask's husband as her own private cashpoint. She's taking the piss, but then of course HE is enabling her, and effectively encouraging her to do that if he never puts his foot down.

The emotional side of this - about DH demonstrating who's 1st in his life is bad enough, but purely practically, I absolutely cannot get my head round any scenario where a man prefers to have his wife of 11 years (so no falsh in the pan) go without whilst "helping" (being a mug) out his ex-wife .... and one who was remarried to boot. I do think the ex wife is behaving very badly .... especially if she, and their children, are aware that these goings on are supposed to be a "secret" and are obviously going along with that ..... but the main problem here is Dontask's husband and she needs - somegow - to sort him out. The ex wife & kids could be outrageously demanding, but it wouldn't actually matter if Dontask's husband dealt with them realistically, honestly and fairly. That means keeping Dontask in the loop at all times and agreeing - jointly - what was and wasn't affordable/acceptable.

See, my Dad paid for my wedding as a gift, and we were very grateful for it. However, there is no way I would have let him pay if I thought it was going on credit cards or he was putting himself in debt for it. Same applies to a honeymoon I think (we paid for that ourselves).

Also, if that had been the case and he couldn't afford it, I would have thought my stepmum would be justified in being furious that he was putting himself into debt for it. I would have been cross with him myself.

I have a son, 20, from my first marriage. Because DH has always worked away from home I have been almost a single mum, although my DH was happy to do dad-type things with him at weekend. I have worked part-time while son was younger but am recently semi-retired.
DH's first wife suffered from PN depression, bad enough to be hospitalized at one point. DH told me that they had been unhappy for years before they spilt but he didn't want to leave until DC were finished school.
As he worked away from home he was able to lead a double life to some extent, and when the marriage finally imploded it was because his ex found out he was living with another woman during the week (I know, I know).
As far as I know, there was at least one other relationship while he was married.
Upshot of this is I think, guilt over the ex and DC.
Whenever I have spoken to his ex at family weddings etc, she always tells me how happy she was in her second marriage after all the miserable years with my DH.
Last time I saw her she added that my DH 'was always a good provider, and STILL IS.'
It was the present tense that threw me. She was letting me know, I think, that he is still providing for her/them in some way.
His son sent birthday card with the message 'thank you for supporting your FAMILIES' plural, my capitals.
So, lots of secrets in this family/families.
I think they all take advantage of him and his conscience.
Thanks for listening.

oh dear don't ask me, as I suspected, he has a history of cheating in his last marrriage by living away during the week, the debts in his last marriage, secrecy, as I suspected this is all about him concealing his affairs now that he is with you, he will be telling wife number three and his mistress all the same rubbish he told you and they will be buying it about you, you are worth much more than this, you love the guy and trust him and look how he has repaid you, I wish you well x

Reading my last post and I think I am sounding a bit paranoid? Or not?
Anyway, catsmother, very well put and sums up my own take on things. As for counselling, he says he sees my point of view and no longer gives money/keeps secrets. Just have to take it on trust I guess.

Actually I am rather inclined to think that this man is a harem-keeper - he likes to have all the women he's shagged in close-ish contact and to some degree dependent on him. That way they are all, to some extent, going to be busy exerting themselves to please him each time he looks their way, whether it's sucking his dick or darning his socks or filling out his tax return for him (You're the only one who can do it that well darling, all the others are bitches, by the way don't worry about that money I lent you for now...)

I think the details about ex wife are very relevant and would not be happy about this situation. I'd find it difficult to cope with the vagueness about his finances and would feel that he was trying to hide something, especially given the fact it doesn't add up with him borrowing from ex etc and I would be very hurt.

Given his past history I would want to have a spell of being involved in his week day life and start taking some surprise breaks to spend time together. And if you are skint and he's paying for son's honeymoon I would be looking to sit down and reorganise the family budget together, going through both of your finances with a fine tooth comb to see where you could hopefully save money. If he refused to do this I would want to know why.

Also, I would want to know beyond all doubt that the sortcode and account number matches ex-wife's name though not sure how you would go about this. My DH and I are happily married with no previous marriages but I've seen a lot of things going on with friends that make me much more suspicious about what some men get up to these days.

SGB - a 'harem keeper' - blimey, never thought of that.
Actually I have noticed that all the women n his life, apart from me, are needy, dependent and babyish in some way. His son too is rather child-like in some ways despite being 30plus. I do think DH likes to cultivate other people to 'need' him and uses money as part of that process.
His father was a sweet but weak man who enjoyed a spot of cross-dressing apparently and his mum wore the trousers. I think DH used to worry it was a hereditary trait. There is a need to be seen as a 'real man' and using money is one way of staying in charge I expect.
Wynken - sort codes etc - are you thinking 'another part-time OW' here? I have teased him over the years about what he does Monday to Friday. I am not really a suspicious person and my former husband was an abusing bully and bankrupt, so I have valued DH's kindness and generosity. Just wish he would stop being quite so kind and generous to people who ought to look after themselves.

Well it was 3am when I wrote that and I think it is highly unlikely. But the combination of him not sharing financial details, the working away in the week, the card saying both families and his past history of affairs whilst married to ex, especially the during the week one, would be enough that I would be a little concerned.

I am probably much to cynical being surrounded by 40 year old men having mid life crises in a variety of cliched ways which makes me far more untrusting than I usually am.

Wynken - I did wonder why anyone posts as 3am and it now only 7.50 - so no sleep for you then? Any clue in your nickname?
At least if I found out he had interests elsewhere that would explain the niggling feelings of suspicion. Still, if we end up divorced I should expect to be treated as generously as ex-wife No 1!

I had one of those nights where I woke up and couldn't get back to sleep for a bit.

Sorry you have niggling suspicions, that must be very unsettling to live with. There's probably nothing going on other than him being overly generous to ex but I know if I were in your situation I would need to do some poking around. I was just explaing this to my DH who felt the same and at the very least get to feel that he is being honest about the financial situation between him and his ex.