Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Would you allow this?

95 replies

andtherest · 09/05/2010 11:53

I found out that H had been going to prostitutes. We are dealing with this situation, don't want to say too much on here but we are not staying together, it was a while ago and we have been separated for a while.

However he used to do this with his best friend. This friend had been asked to be one of our dc's god father when we get them christened. I now do not want this to happen because of what the two of them did together.

H says this is unreasonable as it is not as if his best friend owed me anything. I cannot have this man as my childs godfather though. H says that he doesn't want to tell this man that he will not be dc's godfather and I should just get over it.

Opinions please.

OP posts:
FakePlasticTrees · 09/05/2010 14:07

If your H argues that this man is suited to being a moral and spiritual guardian for your son, why don't you suggest asking the vicar for his/her opinion?

FabIsGoingToGetFit · 09/05/2010 14:08

I think it is almost irrelevant him being a Godparent. The issue is every time you would see him it is a reminder of what he and your husband did.

BTW did your husband visit the prostitutes while still married to you?

Nothing to stop you telling him the offer of being Godfather has been withdrawn...

hocuspontas · 09/05/2010 14:11

I would delay the christening. I couldn't imagine being in church with the H who betrayed me AND the friend standing there as a god-parent. Have the christening in a couple of years. And obviously not have the friend as a god-parent. What an example. And I'm sure the vicar wouldn't be too pleased with H as an eample either. Poor you

booyhoo · 09/05/2010 14:15

i honestly dont think i could even go through with the christening. i would be in tears in the church if i knew that man was going to be one of my children's godparents.

msboogie · 09/05/2010 14:19

how is having sex with a woman who has been kidnapped from her own country and sold into slavery to have sex with strangers NOT rape?

would you suggest that just because she isn't screaming help! rape! that she is not being raped?

DSM · 09/05/2010 14:19

Rapist is ridiculous.

I don't need to think about it properly for 5 minutes. I know a fair bit about prostitution, from top end to bottom. I am all too aware of the trafficked women, and have worked for a charity that helps get them out and 'mainstreamed', and I also know countless women who actively chose their profession, albeit some of them chose from necessity (drug addicts, mostly) and some who've never touched a drug in their life.

There are, like anything, various aspects to prostitution and calling them rape victims is offensive and self righteous.

Women should be allowed freedom of choice. Yes, some are forced into things, but most decent men don't go to those women. It's damn obvious who wants to be there and who doesn't.

To add - vast numbers of brothels are run by women.

OP - just to be clear, I absolutely would not allow a man who accompanied a married man to a brothel, thus contributing to the dissolution of my marriage, to then become godparent to my child. Regardless.

msboogie · 09/05/2010 14:24

I agree with freedom of choice too and have no particular objection to a women choosing to earn her living that way, if it is her choice

but how do these men ascertain before entering a brothel that the prostitutes are there out of career choice rather than as slaves?

they don't!

therefore they are perfectly willing to take the risk that the woman has been trafficked and is not working as a prostitute of her own free will.

What does that make those men, if not potential rapists?

Jux · 09/05/2010 14:28

Gay40, just a question (and it is just that). You said : Technically the vicar shouldn't be christening children whose parents aren't happily married either - should he?

Why shouldn't he?

DSM · 09/05/2010 14:33

It is seriously obvious when you walk into a brothel, whether the women there are there through choice or being forced.

The majority of trafficked women are either drugged into addiction, and need to earn or are being beaten or bullied into it.

The women who choose to be there are in a completely different environment. They have a clear sense of control. They look better, are happier and the entire atmosphere is different.

Any intelligent person can tell the difference when they first walk in.

alarkaspree · 09/05/2010 14:33

I wouldn't have this man as godfather either.

And as a general principle, I think you and your baby's father should both agree on all the people asked to be godparents. Did you both ask him to be godfather before you found out about the prostitute visits? In which case if your dh doesn't want to tell him he's no longer invited to be a godfather, why not tell him yourself? Email him, don't worry about hurting his feelings because he sure as hell didn't worry about yours, copy your husband in.

booyhoo · 09/05/2010 14:37

"some are forced into things, but most decent men don't go to those women. It's damn obvious who wants to be there and who doesn't."

how the hell do you know that 'decent' men dont go to 'those' women?

the men cant always tell if someone is there against their will. these women are beaten and forced into drug addiction and threatened so that they will smile and do whatever they are told to do. if they hint that they are unhappy to a client they know they will be punished for it and sometimes they are told their family will be harmed.

msboogie · 09/05/2010 14:39

"Any intelligent person can tell the difference when they first walk in."

Oh I'm sure they could, but what would an intelligent person be doing there in the first place?

if punters were so discerning and possessed of integrity there would be no call for the former type of brothel as there would be no market

I'm trying to imagine a punter walking into a brothel and walking out again because he was concerned that the women had been trafficked.

Yeah, I'm sure that happens a LOT...

Original poster
andtherest · 09/05/2010 14:40

"BTW did your husband visit the prostitutes while still married to you?"

Yes, nearly from a couple of months into the marriage. We had a row one night and he told me that he had done it, not in a confession and I am sorry way but to hurt me, he said "BTW I have been with at least 20 other women since being married to you".

I am in the process of divorcing him but we try to maintain an amicable relationship for the sake of dc.

The reason it reared its head again is that yesterday he was on the phone to this "friend" and one of our dc asked who it was and he said "my best friend, who is going to be your godfather". I was extremely angry and told him not to refer to him in that way to our dc.

My feelings are that I HAVE to see the father of dc, which is how I refer to H but I do not want to HAVE to see his partner in crime as well, surely I shouldn't have to endure that.

As for the moral side of it and the ill treatment of the women concerned, it is almost too much for me to consider as well alongside the rest of it. I do though and have told him some of the opinions on here (have posted previously under another name) and while i think it gave him something to think about I think he is just so basically disrespectful of women that he just puts it out of his mind and continues. I don't think he even realises how low he thinks women are. It is just how his mindset is.

OP posts:
Original poster
andtherest · 09/05/2010 14:42

And yes before anyone asks we do have a dd and he often uses his good relationship with her as an example of how he doesn't hate women at all, look how precious he thinks dd is etc.

OP posts:
msboogie · 09/05/2010 14:43

the whole point of prostitution is that you are supposed to submit to the man's needs and pretend you are enjoying it

if you have been trafficked your very life may depend on it

I wonder at what point a woman who is in fear of her life gets to make it known that she is being forced?

msboogie · 09/05/2010 14:48

andtherest you are dead right - your husband has no respect for women, he can have a good relationship with his daughter because he is able to categorise women as whores and virgins, his daughter is one of the few who does not fall into the whore category. That might change as she gets older though and is no longer a sweet little girl.

I am sorry to go on about it because none of this is your fault and it shouldn't be you getting lectured on the rights and wrongs or feeling sorry for these women.

but it deserves to be said at every opportunity what these men are doing.

and your child deserves a decent, however flawed, godparent.

DSM · 09/05/2010 14:49

Trust me. Men do walk into brothels and leave due to the conditions or the state of the women.

There are sadly, plenty of men at the lower end of society who either don't care, or aren't intelligent enough to notice. Or can't afford the top end. So, of course this exists.

And it is laughably naive to suggest that intelligent people don't visit brothels.

MrsJellicle · 09/05/2010 14:53

andtherest

So sorry to read about your situation. My h has also visited 'escorts' for years and years (I only found out for certain at xmas) so i empathise totally with your feelings of horror and disgust. I am so sorry. You seem to be being amazingly strong and calm in the face of terrible hurt and provocation - I admire you.

I am not a role model in all this (too muddled and shocked still) so I shrink from giving any sort of advice. But I do think that you should not have to have anyone you dislike (for any reason) to be your child's godparent.

DSM · 09/05/2010 14:54

'the whole point of prostitution is to submit to a mans needs and pretend you enjoy it'

Crap. Low end, maybe yes it can veer toward basic. But anything else tends to be fantasy, spanking, s&m, dressing like babies, whipping.. male submission and fem dom is the absolute epitome of visiting prostitutes. Men find it hard to admit to partners that they want to be dominated, often humiliatingly so. Instead, they go elsewhere and pay for it.

It's a HUGE percentage of the Market.

piscesmoon · 09/05/2010 14:58

It seems weird to me-I can't think why anyone would want to be dominated and humiliated! Even less pay for it!
YANBU-OP. A godparent is someone who should play an important part in family life and not someone you never want to see again.

Original poster
andtherest · 09/05/2010 15:01

MrsJellicle you are at least dealing with what happened and this is why you are so shocked and muddled. I didn't, just shut down, disconnected and pushed it to the back of my mind, leading to a breakdown last summer that I am still not entirely over.

I didn't even leave him at the time because of it, it took me a couple of years but the breakdown made me realise quite how awful things were as though my mind was screaming at me to "wake up" and deal with what had happened.

I am glad that this thread has opened up into a discussion. It makes me look at the bigger picture and not just focus on me.

OP posts:
Salbysea · 09/05/2010 15:03

aside from the high end / low end argument

the OPs ex KNOWS that demanding that this man stands there with them at their DCs christening is hurting her. It sounds like he either doesn't care or LIKES the fact that its hurting her.

So absolutely NBU to refuse to have him as god father.

msboogie · 09/05/2010 15:04

In the UK brothels 85% of prostitutes are from overseas

Source: University College London and Home Office

dittany · 09/05/2010 15:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

dittany · 09/05/2010 15:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.