I shouldn't tell the OW to back off - right?

[StellaforStar]

Hi all
(Long time lurker, occasional poster, name changed for this)

Mr SfS and I have been together for 16 years (met at 19, now 35) and we moved abroad about 18 months ago for his job. I was happy to do so - my job was all consuming, and I'm loving feeling human again. We've met a fab group of ex pats and socialise like it's the first year at uni. Therein lies the problem, of sorts.

We had a mad few months at the end of last year, where (mostly down to me driving it) we decided it wouldn't hurt our relationship if we had a more open approach i.e had friends-with-benefits. We both met people who seemed happy with this (both single, so no additional complications). My fwb is still part of our social circle and we (all 3 of us) get on well with no awkwardness.

Mr SfS's situation got more complex. I got on so, so well with the woman he was seeing - we went shopping, had drinks - she became a close friend in a short space of time. Unfortunately the boundaries became blurred and in the end she decided that he had to decide between me and her. At first he chose her, but when he saw my devastation he reconsidered.

She and I have had no meaningful contact since January, although the circle here is small and she is friends with a couple of my good friends, who know what happened. I approached her by email a month or so ago and said that as the ex pat world here was so small we should make amends - she said she didn't want to revisit the feelings she'd felt for Mr Sfs and to take her off the ex-pat social group I organise.

Last week she contacted Mr SfS out of the blue to say she'd heard he looked sad and if he wanted to go round on Saturday he'd be welcome, but not to tell me. He did tell me, although she doesn't know he did. (He refused btw).

In the interests of time I haven't gone in to the emotional stuff but suffice it to say we all felt the fall out from this. And I know it all reads as though we're 16. All I can reiterate is we all knew where we stood.

I'm so tempted to email her to tell her I know she's been in touch with him and that she's out of order. I shouldn't...should I?

Please go easy on me. I've written this very unemotionally. I know there are people on here whose partners devastate them by having affairs whilst it appears I was playing with fire and got what I deserve. (FWIW I do think it's possible to sleep with people without it damaging your relationship as long as everyone's okay with it - and, indeed, Mr SfS is okay with me doing so, but admits he can't as he gets very involved. But that's just in the interests of disclosure - my question is whether I should tell OW to get lost!)

I will just wait to see what sgb says, actually

I think your partner/husband needs to be the one to do this, she won't listen to you, she'll still hold a torch for him unless she hears it from him herself.

I don't think that as monogamous type I am in a position to advise, since none of the normal rules seem to apply?

I feel I'm putting on my judgy pants, but I'll say it anyway, it sounds like you do what you like when you like, so telling her to back off is probably 'ok' for you to do, and would be seen as usual form for you.

When you fuck about with the 'rules' it always gets messy. It does read like you are 16, and that's why I think that you would behave like you are 16.

disclaimer: I'm really not usually this harsh.

I just want to say it seems ridiculous to invite an open relationship and then now tell her to back off...why should she anyway?

And certainly why should she because you tell her....it's your partner she has and wants the relationship with,not you... she won't take any notice of you whatsoever.

I'm quite liberal[sort of] but this is basically you making the rules up as you go along...

Thanks all for replying.

Aware I was rattling on in the opening post so cut it back to be a factual summary. We've had our ups and downs over the years like any couple, but we do love each other and are good friends. I think moving away threw us into a bit of a state of flux.

Nagoo - I appreciate your honesty but am unsure why you think I do what I like when I like? If I did I wouldn't be torn about this.

But I've been on mumsnet long enough to know that you don't post if you want to just have your view validated so I'm prepared for the challenges and criticism

(taken me a while to type this so may have cross posted)

Wow, didn't you know that their was a chance of this happening, when you decided on this.

I meant what outof said, making the rules up as you go along. Therefore, although the 'rules' would say that you can't speak to her to tell her to back off, the 'rules' probably wouldn't apply.

You said that you all knew where you stood, but you didn't. You blame your husband for getting 'too involved' but you also got into a close relationship (I know friendship) with this woman. That doesn't sound like a good idea at all.

If you have an open relationship, then you are inviting all this crap into your life, then you have to struggle with compartmentalising it all.

TBH it's your DH that should set the boundaries - this woman is single. It doesn't seem fair on her, but then if she knows the situation then fair enough. Your DH has blurred the line, he chose to be with her at first when she asked him to choose. This really doesn't seem her fault, however annoying and awful it may be. If this is how you want your relationship then boundaries need to be firmly set, and it sounds like your DH only chose you in the end out of pity

I have no personal experience of this situation, and don't know what you should do re contacting ow.

What about your husband? Does he really look sad? Maybe you both need to work on your relationship and make it strong again?

ok, so all was well and good when it was all a bit of a laugh, but the ow developed feelings for your dh? Well we could all have seen that coming tbh..

You are mucking about with people's feelings and that's not right, of either of you.

That said, as much as you want to, speaking to her is not likely to get you anywhere.

It has to come from him, and be clear, concise and definite in communicating to her that it's over. You can really have no past in this.

You have to trust him, possibly more than you've ever trusted him before.

THEN, for God's sake get back to focussing on each other and see if you can put all this silliness behind you.

Learn from this, play with fire, you're going to get burnt.

Seems like you'll get through this, hopefully a lucky escape. Of course, worst case scenario is that she won't go quietly... But fingers crossed it'll all be ok in the end.

Out of interest, are you still seeing your FWB?

I don't think there is a way to stop this unless you and your DH re-commit to each other.

Perhaps someone will come along who has the extra-curriclar sex rules? I'd be interested to see what they are.

This is terribly messy, don't you both feel like cutting free and just being together. Get out and learn from these awful mistakes.

Can't you indulge in other fantasies - together, or swinging where you both remain emotionally detached..?

Sounds like a case of wanting your cake and not letting your DH eat his.

Hmm. (- it's a thoughtful noise).

outofmysystem - I guess because the 'rules' (such as they were) were clear to everyone - it was a casual, easy thing which I was perfectly happy with until he was forced into a 'her or me' decision, not of my volition. It only began because she approached him (at a party when she knew I was with him - so nothing hidden). As I said, none of us have spoken since January, so for her to contact Mr SfS all of a sudden was a bit of a surprise. And the whole 'dont tell SfS' runs contrary to the whole 'open' premise?

Perfectly prepared to accept this is a poisoned chalice of my own invitation and to disappear and deal with it.

"they were single so no other complications" you say. How naive and selfish this sounds. You want to use other people for your play things and choose those that you consider simplest for your needs?

If you want to swing, keep it to experienced partnered up swingers or those who are absolutely clear that they do not want a relationship. Although this line "Mr SfS is okay with me doing so, but admits he can't as he gets very involved" makes it clear that it's not going to work as he feels differently from you.

Sure tell her to back off if you'd like, but sounds like she is being used by the both of you, him letting you know about her being in touch to make you understand that the open marriage, that he doesn't appear to want, brings risks to him staying with you?

I think you should both apologise for using her in the game of your marriage and let her kindly know there is no future with your DH and hope she finds someone better.

Wow....

Are you still having your open relationship? That gives your husband a green light to do the same ...... Not that I understand the rules of this game. Sounds risky. You have husband you love who loves you so you throw it all up into the air and see where it lands.

I'd end your FWB arrangements right away. Tell him what you just said, that you sipped from a poison chalice, that it only looked glittery and golden from a distance.

oops, hugely cross posted.

No, I didn't really consider what I was getting into.

EVERYONE knew what the score was. I had lots of conversations with Mr SfS about the OW and how I was worried it was going beyond what we'd (all) discussed.

She was concerned as well, but decided to continue to see him anyway.

To the poster who asked about my FWB (sorry - lots of people posted inbetween) - that was a mutually agree one off, and yes we've seen each other since with no fall out.

God. I'm normally so straight laced. Let's write this off as a mad thing, I won't say anything to her and we'll all pretend it never happened.

Sorry to call you naive again but saying everyone knew what the score was is talking as if you are all robots without feelings rather than humans with feelings and emotions. You weren't borrowing a human blow up doll.

Eurostar: "they were single so no other complications" you say. How naive and selfish this sounds. You want to use other people for your play things and choose those that you consider simplest for your needs? "

No, neither of us approached anyone. In fact, we were both independently approached, and then had a conversation about it, and then had a conversation with independent approachers.

All I was trying (clumsily) to say was that we hadn't involved another couple in this tawdry nonsense, i.e there wasn't a MR OW who was also suffering. I don't know why that matters, it was a clarification.

I would say the first person you need to talk to is your H. Because what matters the most is whether or not he wants to restart a relationship with this woman ie he feels that he was forced to end the relationship with her before he was ready to do so. If he doesn't want anything more to do with her then it doesn't matter (to you and him) what she thinks or does, she will have to deal with her feelings herself - and if that's the case I would suggest minimizing social contact with her if she is likely to be tiresome.
Yes, sometimes open relationships go wrong. All kinds of relationships go wrong, and all kind of relationships go right, as well. If (as it sounds) it was the OW who suddenly movd the goalposts, then she is definitely the one who should be 'dealing with it', if you and your H were honest with yourselves, each other and her then it is her problem that she got upset - no one is entitled to more commitment from another person than was originally offered, just because they want it.
TBH Stella I would recommend having a rummage here for advice and info from a poly perspective: on MN any useful advice you get is likely to be drowned out by monogamist squawking.

SGB - thank you. No, Mr SfS doesn't want to see her on her own and has told her this. I'll have a good read of your links.

I can honestly say that there was lots of conversation and discussion about how it was all progressing between everyone. (I don't mean to sound like a robot - there's been a fair amount of fall out and it's easier to approach it pragmatically for me). Can assure you no-one saw anyone as a 'human blow up doll'. There's been a lot of care to protect everyone.

SfS - So was it the case that the whole thing started when the OW approached your H and came up with the idea of opening up your relationship? If so then I wouldn't waste much sympathy on her, you do occasionally get people like this on the swinging scene who are actually a bit predatory and manipulative - they see it as a competition.
Keep talking with your H about how you're doing, and don't feel guilty about what happened: you had good intentions, things went a bit wrong, that's life - and no one is dead.

SGB - kinda - that was the means/opportunity, though we'd both discussed motive before that in a hypothetical way (as in 'IF it happened, how would we deal with it etc). If that makes any sense.

I feel guilty that people got hurt despite our best intentions. I guess when it's written down here in black and white it looks a lot more obvious/easy than it felt at the time.

OK - slightly judging because really, anyone could have seen that this might happen - I would say leave it up to your DH to tell her to back off and not contact him again.
She broke "the rules" such as they were by forcing a choice - if you contact her she will probably see it that you are threatened by her and think she is in with a chance again.

He has to be the one to tell her to fuck right off - he (eventually) chose to stay with his wife and that's the way it's going to be.

trying not to do the "monogamist squawk" here but...it seems you two are pretty crap at this open relationship lark

how naive you both sound...you thought you were clever and progressive, didn't you ? Oh dear...

Perhaps you should stick to boring old monogamy in future and stop dragging other people into your silly games

I'm with AnyFucker. Boring as monogamy may be to some, it sure is nice and simple!

Maybe it's time to give it a go?

As for the OW I think it's your H that should tell her to back off, if you do it I think it could make him seem even more appealing!