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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Drunk BIL Snuggles Up in Wrong Bed! WWYD?

90 replies

Vagabond · 01/05/2010 20:19

I'd really love your opinions on this and I'll try to keep it snappy.

My sister and BIL hosted a housewarming party last night. It was a huge night, loads of people and everyone ended up very drunk and going to bed in the wee hours. (I wasn't there, btw).

My sister's best friend (let's call her Stacey) was visiting from abroad, just to attend the party, and was staying in the guest bedroom with her 5 year old DD.

My sister woke up this morning with a heavy head, but feeling happy at the huge success of the party. She went to give Stacey a cup of tea in the guest bedroom but found that she was gone. Upon further investigation, my sis discovered that her suitcase and hire car were also missing. She rang Stacey immediately to find out what was going on.

Stacey was calm but insistent that my BIL had snuck into her bedroom and 'tried it on with her'. It seems that Stacey woke up at 4am to find her knickers on the floor and my BIL kissing her tummy. My BIL was right there when the phone call happened and protested his innocence, grabbed the phone and tried to make sense of it all with Stacey. He apologised "if it did happen" but claimed to have no recollection of the events.

Stacey then got back on the phone with my sis and told her that her husband is a pervert and that she should leave him.

My sis and BIL are understandably distraught and upset. They both, however, have come to believe that it DID happen. However, they also firmly believe that it was a drunken mistake.

Sis and BIL have 2 boys under 3 and are constantly playing musical beds due to snoring and kids constantly waking up etc.. etc. I know this to be true because I've seen it on umpteen occasions. Also, they have a large house and it's very easy to be confused in the corridors. Lastly, Sis and Stacey look similar.

My BIL is not a pervy guy at all (and I'm not his biggest fan). Far from it. I honestly believe that it was a mistake - a huge, drunken mistake - but Stacey is adamant that it was not a mistake and says her friendship with my sis if over unless she splits with BIL. Stacey was also pretty drunk that night. I'm not blaming her at all (far from it!) but she didn't even wake up until he had her knickers off and was kissing her on the tummy.

My BIL phoned Stacey again later to apologise and to say that it's entirely possible it had happened but that he has no recollection of it and that it was unintentional.

My sister is on BIL's side (just) but is understandably worried that Stacey will tell all their friends (which she probably will) and that her carefully constructed life, new home, two young boys etc is in tatters because of this.
BIL is beside himself with shame and distress. I have to reiterate, he would have known that he couldn't have got away with it and I honestly feel that it was a hideous, drunken mistake.

I don't know why I'm posting. Just wondering if you'd believe that my BIL made a drunken and unintentional mistake. And more, how should my sis repair her friendship with Stacey?

TIA

OP posts:
JackBauerIsZonerrific · 02/05/2010 07:58

I agree BIG difference between sleepily/drunk snuggling next to someone and going down on them having removed clothing.
EVen if BIL doesn't remember adn it was a genuine mistake I think your sister needs ot acept that Stacey, quite rightly, will feel assaulted and will not speak to her again.

Yes, it sucks, but if I felt I had been assaulted I wouldn;t want to be friends with the mans wife, or see him again. Especially if they were trying to brush it away.

Where the 5yo was and how/why she drove away while (apparently) still pissed are a bit yes but can be explained.

Say youi woke up and found a man in your bed who had removed your underwear and was kissing you. You freka out, he wanders off, you don't particualry want to have the conversation with him and his wife when everyone gets up as you feel sick about it so you throw your stuff in bags, chuck it in the car with your dd and then drive off somewhere to get your head together...

FakePlasticTrees · 02/05/2010 08:19

If I had been sexually assaulted by the DH of a good friend, I'd want to get out of there as quickly as possible, even if I was still over the limit to drive.

LynetteScavo · 02/05/2010 08:20

Stacey was asleep...not just drunk, so I can quite understand how she wasn't aware of what was going on for a while. So taking that it all happened as stated in the OP....

The question in the OP is how can sis repair her friendship with Stacey?

Apart from apologising for BIL's behaviour, I don't think there is anything sis can do. I can quite understand if Stacey never wants to see BIL again, but it would be a shame to finish what sounds like a long friendship because of someone else's behaviour. I don't think sending flowers would be appropriate in this situation.

Tell your sis not to worry about what Stacey may or not say to other people. Life's to short to worry what other people think about you. As long as sis is happy to stay with BIL....

SugarMousePink · 02/05/2010 15:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DONTtouchMUMSspecialJUICE · 02/05/2010 15:54

i'm a bit of a sleep groper. i've had partners who if they climb into bed after a night shift/ night out when i'm sleeping (me drunk or sober).. or even if we were already in bed sleeping for hours already... i will initiate sex.

it was only until last week.. when it happened.. and the fella complained in morning i'd been pestering him and he'd told me to bog off.... did he tell me i did this.

i had no idea.

i knew i talked and acted out things (like riding a bike) in my sleep.

i contacted previous boyf's since i found this out earlier in the week.

aparently it is very common for me. I always thought it was the fella waking me up for a midnight fondle.

turns out it was me the majority of the time.

does stacey have any past form for talking in her sleep , sleep walking, etc?..

i dont sleep walk. just the other stuff.

she may well have participated initially. but not fully woke up till the point where he's kissing her tummy.

Karmann · 02/05/2010 16:27

There is no evidence to suggest BIL took Stacey's knickers off.

A new house can lead to drunken confusion regarding bedroom location. (My H gets very confused in unfamiliar locations after a drink and I have even found him crossing a dual carriageway in his sleep).

Stacey AND BIL were drunk. Why is it always the mans fault?

No evidence that BIL is trying to brush it away. Why is Stacey so sure that it wasn't a mistake?

Far too much drink consumed on BOTH sides but apparently it is only the mans fault.

mathanxiety · 02/05/2010 17:01

If the man was actively doing something when the woman awoke then it is the man's fault, since it is clear that the woman was completely surprised to find the man doing what he was doing; the question is of consent even if the woman was drunk. And yes, women do it too, but in this case, Stacey took the trouble to wake her child, pack and leave in the middle of the night and phone very upset the next day. Only someone with some sort of pathological fondness for drama would do all that if she wasn't convinced something traumatic had happened.

Being drunk does not mean anyone may take liberties. As for the knickers on the floor, since Stacey mentioned them on the phone, it was probably to imply that she had not removed them herself or put them there. Do people normally sleep au naturel when they're guests in someone else's house? A hotel much more likely, but someone else's house possibly not.

DONTtouchMUMSspecialJUICE · 02/05/2010 17:42

i'm wondering about the knickers thing... do people normally stay in friends spare beds with just their knickers? even if pissed?why no pj's?

traceybath · 02/05/2010 17:45

Karmann - it is the bil's fault because he got into 'stacey's bed' and was about to go down on her. How on the earth is she in any way culpable?

compo · 02/05/2010 17:47

I'm wondering where the OP has gone

SuSylvester · 02/05/2010 17:47

claps compo

compo · 02/05/2010 17:47

as soon as bil got into the bed wouldn't the 5 year old have woken up?

compo · 02/05/2010 17:48

lol Su

ItsGraceAgain · 02/05/2010 17:56

I wish Mumsnetters were a little less keen to assume a man is always in the wrong. I have been date raped; I do understand what No means - and that absent consent equals No.

People DO do weird things in their sleep, especially when drunk and more especially when stressed and in an as-yet unfamiliar house: all of which applied to the man in this story. Sleepiness has succesfully been used as a defence in murder cases.

The woman was evidently upset enough to do a sudden flit, but that really doesn't mean the man was necessarily in the wrong. She went over the top with her demands of her friend - and she should never have driven her car drunk. Those two factors make me think she's got some other stuff going on, which is nothing to do with whatever happened.

Having a dick is not an indication of guilt!

Karmann · 02/05/2010 18:14

Absolutely agree with you Grace.

nancydrewrocks · 02/05/2010 18:21

Grace I can only speak for myself but certainly do not assume men are always in the wrong. I have a gorgeous DH and beautiful DS's and the way in which men are so often villified in our society is a genuine concern of mine.

That being said the majority of this thread has not been about whether the man is to blame but about the culpability of a woman who woke up to find a man assaulting her. Regardless of whether it was a genuine accident that must have been a truely shocking experience yet rather than empathise with her once again the vast majority of woman jump in with assainiations of her character vis a vis possible drink driving, accusations of lying and unpleasant suggestions that she somehow contributed to her situation.

NB As a criminal lawyer I can assure you that "sleepiness" has never been sucessfully used in a murder case.

deaddei · 02/05/2010 18:23

My dad once got into bed with my granny after a night on the Guinness.

traceybath · 02/05/2010 18:36

Nancydrew - I totally agree with you and wish I could have put it so eloquently.

nancydrewrocks · 02/05/2010 18:45

Thanks Tracey

When other woman start suggesting that someone who is assaulted should "laugh it off" by virtue of the fact that the man is known to her and "didn't mean it" I feel like I am living in a parallel universe!

ItsGraceAgain · 02/05/2010 19:10

Nancy, I'm not a criminal lawyer and was talking about 'parasomnia' defences. Sleepiness seemed an adequate term.

The thread is not about Stacey's culpability. It's about "Just wondering if you'd believe that my BIL made a drunken and unintentional mistake. And more, how should my sis repair her friendship with Stacey?"

My answers: Quite possibly; I wouldn't bother.

Hope that clarified.

LeQueen · 02/05/2010 19:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

posieparker · 02/05/2010 19:15

I know a man that when pissed went into his child's room and pissed near their bed....you can do all sorts when you're pissed.

maduggar · 02/05/2010 19:23

How was she able to drive if she was so blind drunk & passed out? Did she suddenly just wake up sober enough to drive with a 5 yo?

DuelingFanjo · 02/05/2010 19:27

Sorry, but if she stopped him in the middle of the night then where did BIL go? How come he can't remember her reaction or going back to his own room.

He sounds as if he's trying to not accept the blame. Drunk or not it's wholly unfair to expect her to take some of the blame.

How long have they lived in this huge house with the many doors which become confusing after a few drinks?

Sounds utterly unbelievable to me.

nancydrewrocks · 02/05/2010 19:29

Parasomnia refers to a category of sleep disorders, most notably "sleep walking". I'm not sure this equates to "sleepiness" but there you go....

For information (and very briefly!) if someone sleep walks they can use the 'automatism' defence - that is they had no control over what they were doing. This defence is not open to them if the automatism is self induced by virtue of alcohol consumption.

Grace I agree that the OP was, in a nutshell: can I believe BIL made a drunken mistake and is friendship salvagable. But the thread quickly descended into character assasinations and it is to that which I object.