'But We Took You to Stately Homes' Part 2...a thread for adult children of abusive families

[therealsmithfield]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parent?s behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotional abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesnt have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure wether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts;.

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

follow up to pages first thread

Im sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out grin. I personally dont claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will recieve a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

Hi Grace and MH glad you're both posting here today, I was a little worried people wouldn't come back.

Grace thank you for your concern. I posted what I did because I felt guilty that Vanilla felt unsupported on Friday and I wanted to explain myself. I woke up this morning and realised Vanilla had triggered me, which is why I got the post deleted.

It's one of the things that has bugged me all my life - feeling moved to fight other peoples' battles and feeling guilty for not doing a good enough job; or staying out of conflicts and feeling guilty for not taking a stand, even if it's really nothing to do with me. If I'm criticised for doing the latter, I go into full on 'defend myself' mode.

Ultimately what happened on Friday was nothing to do with me, I don't know why it happened and I realise I should not feel guilty for just staying out of it. That's not to say I wasn't shocked by it, nor to say I am not deeply sorry both Diving and Vanilla were hurt, but I cannot do anything about that. I cannot fight every battle or save everyone I feel compassion for.

This trigger, I am sure, stems from childhood; on the one hand, the sense that I was surrounded by injustice, the fact that my siblings and I had to stick together and fight for each other because no adult in our lives would (eg, I was always having to take a loco parentis role re my younger sis at school - I resented having that responsibility thrust onto me, yet I felt guilty if I didn't do it, for who else would?)....the feeling that I somehow held the key to my parents' unhappiness and that something I could do or say would magically make all the conflict go and everything ok; on the other hand, my fear of saying the wrong thing and guilt and shame for remaining silent (and I increasingly did cower and remain silent).

That makes me sound selfish and a coward. I feel selfish just writing it down and I did feel quite cowardly on Friday. But I need to put boundaries around me and fight the right battles. I barely 'know' Vanilla and Diving, I did not understand their 'battle', I did not know how to save them, I would have felt terrible if I'd said the wrong thing.

MH glad you're ok after last night. I didn't really understand why your name in particular came up. Anyway, I'm glad you are here and sharing again. Your post today has made me think a lot about my own getting back into contact issues - what's my motive? I'm going to have a think about this, will post again soon.

freshers:

I am glad you have had a think about the motives, I would be most interested in what you have to say about it!

What you have written about the anamosity on this thread, was very helpful, I identify with trying to stop being a rescuer and injustices, I felt the same way, I have grown and am growing and wanted to take a new tact in things, I don't know if I did a bad job or not as I was attacked, it was helpful to me to know that you don't understand why I was attacked either! You are so very right, there is nothing wrong with staying out of things, and you should not feel guilty for it, well done you for noticing this x

I have more to post, and your post, has given me confidence again, I like you will check in later if I have time x

Loved what you both wrote, thank you

BOF, while reading about your defence of others -> defensiveness, I identified so much I didn't even read it properly! Just been back over it and, man, am I triggered!! Thanks so much for highlighting something that, I now see, I've been avoiding. My eldest nephew has similar problems (he's got my scapegoat/dustbin family role.) I've discussed it with his parents, never stopping to realise I'm still playing out that particular script myself

I feel very keenly that you've said the same thing, mh, and so has Rose. In the greater scheme of things, I suppose it's quite nice of us to feel driven to protect others (from what we ourselves have suffered) - and kind of inevitable, given all the parentification we were landed with as youngsters.

I hereby resolve to stop and think a bit harder, next time I feel like rushing to the defence - anyone's defence, including mine! Eek.

mh, your joy at setting yourself free absolutely shines through your posts today

Well done! Be kind to yourself, and please tell us about your latest triumphs when you can.

I have to get the little one's into bed and see if I have time then, I am on and off the computer this afternoon/evening reading others posts, and getting insight from you all x

here goes!

As I have said before, I have cut close relationships with everyone except my two children and the only person I speak to is the family therapist who has worked with us for a year or so, and even then not much as it is family stuff and not too deep! I have the odd aquantance and facebook (although that was deactivated for months), but that is it apart from my voluntary few hours a week. I have never had such little social contact.

I did it because I had some counselling last summer, the horrible court case with the ex ended last summer and due to counselling regarding ex, I realised that all my relationships were unhealthy, so cut them out bit by bit! I have concentrated on myself and the children, I know the children were scared and felt I was doing the wrong thing at first, as time has gone on they realise it was the best thing I ever did for us and it has made things better, allowed me to grow in peace and go back into the world stronger! I sopped the kids activities, as they had given up liking of it all.

I went on antidepressants after a bad experience with a therapist I started with in the new year, who I no longer see.

I booked some social things for us to do as a family in the new year that has just strated, which is socialising us again.

I went with the children yesterday and we picked out a dog, which will be good exercise, company and get us socialising with other dog owners!

I brought the children with me to court on friday, it was for finances, and they were not allowed in the last time we were there when he heard how long it was since the kids saw their dad. Their dad was fuming, he did not want to see them, I brought them for them and not him, he was threatening me and going mad and that used to work scaring me like that it no longer does, I knew it was what the children needed!

I have a strong fear of court after family court, and all the ex's lies and listening to it all, I had panic attacks and ran from the court room crying once I could not take it anymore! Even now I have trouble opening post still as an overhang form so many lies in solicitor letters from ex!

So ex walked in to waiting room, gave an evil stare to us all, and sat as far away as he could with his back to us. We carried on talking about benign subjects, I could tell he was earwigging! After an hour and a half the oldest child asked me to come with her to say hello to him, so I held her hand when she did, he said hello back, she said how are you, he said good, how are you, I said have you got nothing more to say?he then attacked me saying he did not want it like this, and she then leaned into me and said I want to hug him, I said ask then, she did and gave him a hug, he hugged her tightly back, she cried on his shoulder, the other child then cried so I went to her leaving them to a talk between themselves. The other child cried she said because he was so mean to her sister, I think there was also sorrow at not being brave enough to go to him also there! She refused to go over to him, and I did not push! Then after half an hour we were called into see the judge, I did not bring anyone as I don't have anyone that I could trust to not cause a drama! I also knew it was safe, not criminal court, the children were old enough to look after themselves and that we were asking for an adjournemnt so would not be long! As we left he walked straight out ahead of me and did not look at the children again, no good bye etc.

The phone call I made earlier in the day on friday was to my father, who is not about anymore in my life, I felt unable to post on here with all that had gone on in the thread, and I just needed some sort of contact, I don't know what or why! My mother is visiting my brother who lives abroad who had a baby, who had emergency heart surgery not long ago!

I feel strong and able to cope, I just need a bit of help every so often as I am so very isolated and it is not the norm for me!

thanks for listening x

Oh MH....Where to start.

I empathise with that family court thing, the lies the letters, caffcas. On it goes. The lies!

My first H aided by my mother and sisters, took me to court many, many times to have my ds removed from me...obviously as I am an evil, alcoholic, pathological liar who has magical powers to charm people.

They did this so many times. I kept all the papers, until last spring, when I decided that it was long enough ago to be able to get rid.

Unfortunately. my mother was in my life at the time and knew that I had done this.

We never discussed her involvement in the two years she was in contact again.

I so very much wish that I had those papers now. The reports done by them, about me, are verbatum what my h is now saying. And yet, he was on the receiving end six years ago!

It is truly extra ordinary...and why I sought psychiactric help last Autumn....I tuly believed that I must be all the things that ALL those people, my mother and sisters and two husbands and their friends, accused me of. And yet all the professionals say that it is not me.

I must start again...like you MH...from empty.

I am reminded of the David Bowie lyric....Here am I floating on a tin can, far from the world.

Reading posts - I do that every so often and had thoughts on being needy.

Being needy in my family was a way for the parents to control/manipulate people to do what they want both by being needy themselves or using it in others. I have rejected all forms of needy to the extent that I can't abide people giving me a small amount of sympathy! The idea of dp 'looking after' me whilst ill makes me angry. It's something I'm working on now. I have had feelings of deep anger towards The Cub for being so needy - he's 1 ffs he's supposed to be needy. I need to let go of that.

AlwaysGrowingTiggaxx

I am not a David Bowie fan so have no idea of the song this is how I feel!

I am sorry that you had a horrible family court experiene.

I wonder if you could elaborate, as I am not fully making sense of your post!

Do you mean our mother and sisters backed your ex during the family court process against you?

What doo you mean about reports being done on you, and your ex quoting them? do you mean yur family got reports or the courts?

You do know that old files are held in court and by your solicitor, if you wanted copies of any documents!

When you say you have started again from empty, do you mean your life, with few people in it, as if a baby in an adults body?

Yes my mother and sisters backed my ex against me in court. My sister is a barrister. Tough.

The case they presented to the court included a comprehensive chrarcter assination of me each time. (I think about six in total) They maintained that I was mad, an alcoholic, had a personality disorder etc etc.

The FACT is that we still have joint custody of ds, I never prevented contact. The whole thing was pretend, trying to make me out to be some kind of monster. It cost a fortune, in the end they gave up. There was no way they could have won custody, there was nothing wrong with our home, (yes we had visits from ss to check us out) and nothing wrong with ds. AND NOTHING WRONG WITH ME!

One day in court he decided he'd hd enough, and that was the last we heard from him. No birtay or christmas cards, nothing. Twat.

What really baffles me is that h was with me all the way through these cases, and now it's as if he has morphed into my first h, using identical language, all since my mother has been back on th scene. I know that h an her are in touch as I have seen emails between them, the content of which makes me feel physically sick. It's like living in a horror film.

Started again from empty....both really, I am doing inner child therapy, which is essentially connecting with the child me, and loving her in a way that she never was.

inner child therapy sounds good, can you tell me more about what you are doing?

Why has your mother got it in for you do you think? sometimes we never know, I have tried to work out what it was about me too x

I am so sorry that your family did that with your ex, how on earth you could allow yourself and your dc to be in touch with someone like that is beyond me, maybe it is something you need to think about.

What the hell is up with the women now starting on your second husband, why is he engaging with your mother, have you asked him why?

The betrayal by your sister must have been so hard as well, I am so sorry, are you in touch with her now?

The ex husband, from what you have said has left the scene!

Do you think it was your ex husband or your sister and mother that wanted to make you look bad and destroy you in the court system?

I understand, not many people will hun, my ex was assisted by his g/f he had the affair with, her mother had good knowledge of the court system, her daughters father put her through family court for three years, and she became a social worker and works in courts all the time, I believe that she assisted ex and her daughter who has a psychology degee, in ways to make me look bad!

At the end of the day they are all twisted people, and I had to work out why I wanted to be with someone twisted like that, it is not something I ever want for my children, they are safe and happy away from those people.

Yes I also had ex ring social services on me, and like you there was found to be nothing wrong by social services, he kept ringing and complaining for more assessments, no one was interested in any more in social services, and the social worker told me the whole thing was a waste of her time, and he now has a vindictive mark against his name in social services for what he has done!

MH, thisis remarried and her current h is mimicking the first.

thisis - your strength & dignity astounds me!

What is wrong with my h?

He is a mess. He has no memory of his childhood. This is bad, very bad, from what I can gather.

Now I know how this all works, he is defining himself from the outside in. He has no connection to his own senses or intuitive feeling about the world, because something, his childhood, parents, trauma, has shut them down/ cut them off.

Not only has he implanted his cut off stuff into me and ths dc's, he is able to change persona, like changing a jacket. His outside in definitions of himself.

So, he actually has no sense of smell, he can't see colour very well, he only eats very, very spicy food. When I read about cutting off sensate and intuitive function, I didn't realise that it could manifest in such obvious ways. He is completely disconnected from himself. That's why he has to define himself, and others, in ways that have nothing to do with his reality. It's extraordinary.

This is scary for me, as I must have been disconnected from me too, but as a girl, society probably saved me from the worst of it. I am a very socialble creature too, which helped, but essentially, this woud be why we were drawn together so deeply.

I have a very wise friend, who suggested that he is in touch with my family as he literally has no one else. They give him his "strokes"...in order for this to happen he must wear the hate thisis jacket.

The inner child therapy helps to reconnect to your self at vaious stages of childhood. I have been 3 for the last two weeks!

In terms of my mother....there is some suggestion that she was sexually abused as a child. I don't know if this is true, she has never sought any kind of help, she only said it once,it's easier to label others, which she does with vigour.

She is jealous of me. She believes that I have special powers to charm people and that the "real me" is demonic.

Unfortunately my neice is also demonic. She's a mess too. Quelle surprise!

What their end game is....I do not know.

Grace...I am humbled by you very kind words.

Cheers, but I don't feel I'm one to humble anybody

Do you think they have an endgame? Listening to my Mum, thinking about the Xs and the boss and all those other nutcases: I just feel their self-contortion and shutting-off processes, which you so eloquently described, are all there is. I don't think they're running TO anywhere. It's all about running FROM something - though they probably can't think what it was.

Very, very sad. But so is a dog with rabies, and I wouldn't choose to stroke it!

An example of my inner child therapy.

My homework is to draw pictures of me as a child. (amongst other things). Today was enlightening. I was drawing a picture of my mother, locked in the bathroom with my sister, she used to tell my sister all about her love affairs, in great detail.

I was on the other side of the locked door, so I drew that, and me sitting outside alone.

I started colouring in. Two things struck me. I always had blue things, and my sister had pink or red. It's SO BLOODY OBVIOUS, looking at the picture. I remembered that I had one dall, called "Ranelagh" (She was from Lewis's, that was their brand name, but I thought it was he name of the doll) The rest of MY toys were cars and bricks. I was never allowed a barbie or a sindy.

My mother and sister had the same hairstyle....long, brown with a fringe.

My mother used to hack off my blonde hair, I remember sobbing, looking in the mirror, saying that I looked like a boy. I have a photo, and you can clearly see that my hair has just been hacked away at.

I am the only one to have a ds. I remember feeling guilty and scared of her reaction.

I don't know what it means, except she clearly has a problem with boys and put me in that category in some way too.

That's interesting, thisis - and sad, both being locked out and feeling guilty about having a boy

I'm supposed to be meditating on gender, but am still finding too distressing to get anything out of it yet. I'm not sure what I excect I'll find?

I fiercely rejected anything too girly as a child (my favourite colour is blue) - but think that's fairly normal for a girl after she's gained a favoured brother. Also, my parents were commendably non-sexist for their time; we both had cars AND made cakes, iyswim. I've always been aware of the sister-brother, older-younger, dynamic in families and thought I was settled with it.

In therapy last month, though, I said I hate being a woman. I shocked myself! I really need to figure myself out more here - I'm quite irritated by fluffy girlishness (like my mum's, surprise surprise), but definitely fall withiin the normal range of femininity. And I LIKE women! (Except the fluffy girly type, and I can tolerate that.)
Uhh - so I love women, hate being one, but am not a man or mannish?

I'm very hoping this turns out to be nothing more than my non-sexism, and stereotype rejection. Have you got any feelings or views around this? I'd be interested to hear.

Lol @ your doll's name! I unwittingly called mine by their brand names, too - Roselee and Miranda. Ranelagh is WAY more cool!

mummiehunnie, I did my inner-child work with the help of John Bradshaw's "Homecoming" but, be warned, it's VERY intense! Bradshaw himself says you should do it with the support of a counsellor. If you can get yourself into a group, like the Freedom Programme, or one run by a mental health professional, that would be good. Be wary of 'healers', psychics or anybody else claiming special powers. This is about exploring your own self, not letting someone else explore it for you.

A few inner-child things that are safe to try at home:
*] Write a letter to your young self. What would like to tell her or ask her?
*] Hold the pen in your non-dominant hand, and write a reply from your child self. See what she wants to say, or if she has any questions for you.
*] Draw a picture from your childhood, like thisis did.
*] Draw a diagram of your family, with circles for all the people in it. Include yourself. Make the circles overlap, be further apart or closer, be bigger or smaller, according to how you feel it should be. When you've finished, hold it at a distance & take a critical look. What does it tell you? If you then want to draw another diagram, more like how you'd like it to be, then draw it and keep it.

Have fun

And I coloured my mother in dark green, with sharp angular edges...with a giant mouth spouting utter rubbish, with loads of people sitting listening, looking very bored, and all smoking cigarette. Can't wait to see what is made of it all on Monday!

And not one for you Grace....I drew my four year old self the pinkest, most sticky out ball gown imaginable...and I have, in the picture...beautiful, long, wavy Golden hair.

My dd picked up one of these pictures and instantly, correctly identified everyone in it.

She loves the pink dress, but said that it would be better with a tiara!!!!!

Fantastic! Love your DD's reaction, too!

I wasn't that much of a boy, thisis - when my aunty got married, I couldn't be a bridesmaid but badgered successfully to wear a pink bridesmaid dress I can still remember it: satin bodice and layered net skirts. I had a swan's-feather headband [sticks out tongue at tiara, goes "na-nana-na-nah"]

Sticks out bottom lip in response....well I had a ....a ....a.......

DOLL CALED RANELAGH!!!!!

ha!

DD is five and a fantastic playmate. She "gets it". I guess because she is still there in reallife.

How nice that your DD is having a 'proper' girlhood, eh, thisis?

... still brain-dumping ...
Last time I saw therapist, she dropped in several remarks about women being competitive amongst themselves. I thought maybe this was a bugbear of her own (do we all do that with our therapists??) but, after, writing above, I'm slowly getting it. What I think of as fluffy girlishness is really that female-competitive thing. What with Mum being a six-year-old girl, emotionally, and with her jealousy of me, I've combined the two. So: emotionally, I'm making the equation: girly=jealous=threatening. AHA!

Hurrah, I've just come a long way towards resolving one of my weirdnesses. My good friend S, who was a dishevelled, all-natural, Doc Marten wearer when we met, went through an epiphany of her own a while back; she decided to adopt hair styling & makeup. She was very startled when I pitched up with a holdall full of hair & face things, then proceeded to teach her how to use them.

To me, this has never seemed like a paradox. I enjoy all the dress-up stuff but don't bother with it or consider it important. It is, though, isn't it? Appearances say more about us than we might like.

Going off to try and integrate myself - and dust my mirrors

I love this thread.

Smoking...Louise Hay calls it a smokescreen for those who do not want tp see the truth...maybe why ther's all the cigarettes?

Although I started smoking at 11. Ten number six and a book of matches. The real thing..."you to me are everything".

I thought that it may get a reaction......it did not.

I guess in that picture I am 11.

Grace......

When I was at the end of my teens, I lived in oversized trackybums and giant jumpers...never did my hair and never wore make up. I had no boyfriends and no one ever asked.

As a singer, I addressed those things, but only for work. So I had ludicrous cabaret clothes...sequins and the like. I have only had nice day clothes since I have been with h, ( he was really upset to see how few clothes I had) and I have bought more since he ran away.

Funny though because he lives in tracky's and giant t's too.

I am working towards the long golden wavy hair.

After I had ds, my poker straight hair fell out, and grew back wavy!!!!!

When my first marriage died, I cut ALL my hair off...very, very short. Before I left home I used to pull it out until I had a huge bald patch on the back of my head..Tricho something mania? Must remember to mention that.

Shit, my hair is so important isn't it? That's why she chopped it off...it was my femininty and threatening to her. Her jealousy of me being the girl she wasn't?

Yes. appearance is crucial! It is a good way of discovering who we are I suppose.