I shouldn't have looked, but I did...............................................

[curiositykilledthecat]

At some old work diaries/journals belonging to dh.

BTW, I am a v regular Mumsnetter, but really had to go "underground for this!"

I came across the journals when I was having a tidy up and my curiosity got the better of me. He's always said I can look at anything of his - I haven't before and wish I'd stuck to that rule .

So, we were "courting" from September 1997, got engaged January 2000 and married July 2000.

The following is some of the stuff that he wrote during this time - I've changed the names, (just in case!) and am referring to myself as Sue.

There are lots of references to "Mary" or a "Mary type". This was someone he went out with for a couple of months before he met me. It didn't work out (not sure why) - she was from the US and went back there to live.

1997
"Must make more space for Sue. Also, make it a rule to chat up one woman per day".

"The excitement isn't there (referring to me) that there should be. So use her - because she's not destructive. It's a neutral thing at worst."

May 1998

"Want and have Sue. Want and don't have Mary - no reason why I shouldn't find her, it's only been a year".

July 1998
"I've got Sue for sex and Diane (this was an ex long term partner) for companionship"

October 1998
"Waitress Mandy has nice tits and is interested. Estate Agent Sarah looks like a model and is interested. Louise is young and into me. Jenny is a really nice girl with a good brain who likes me. Liz might be into a f* every now and then. There's no reason why I shouldn't do anything about the above." (meaning I didn't matter I assume).

Notice how I figure nowhere on the above list, although there are a few references elsewhere about me being good in bed).

Oct 1998
"Marriage - Mary type - 25 year old. One offs (as in 1 night stands) - yes."

I was referred to in a list with Mary and Sarah, but he wrote a really detailed "review" about Sarah - reasons why he thought she was suitable for him etc etc.

November 1998
"It would be good to meet someone and this is the season for it".

Dec 1998
"Where's the excitement? Still with the Mary type".

Throughout 1999, he still seems to be hankering after Mary and even in November 1999 ( a few weeks before he asked me to marry him) - clearly she's still the type he really wants to marry.

I don't see any definite references to him actually sleeping with someone else, but some things make me a bit suspicious.

I know I shouldn't have looked, I know it's 5 years on, but I'm really hurt. He's always banging on about how much he's always loved me blah blah blah.

I don't know what to do about it either.

Your honest thoughts appreciated (don't mind of they are searingly honest, but be a bit gentle with me).

ps - as you can see from the time of this post, I can't sleep!

I'd give it a couple of days before you challenge him tbh. These things are best said when you've had time to think about it and besides, you might decide to let it go, saving yourself a lot of potential arguments/heated discussions. I really feel for you and have no doubt that I would have done exactly the same thing and would be finding it really hard to keep quiet.

Good luck.

He's been a fantastic husband since we married - really wonderful, with no hint of possible unfaithfulness, although I am very dim about this sort of thing. I've trusted him implicitly.

Part of the problem is that I found the whole time we were together before marrying really stressful, because of his attitude towards the ex long term partner. Reading this stuff has reignited all that "with knobs on" because I had no idea his mind was working like this.

I keep looking at him strangely and he's wondering why.

I feel sick thinking of us making love and he was wishing it was with someone else.

I'm wondering whether to put a little note by some of the choicest comments - childish in the extreme I know!

If he is wondering why you are looking at him funny now, just have it out.....whats the point in waiting and letting it build up into something even bigger than it is already? You're alrady more annoyed and worried than you were at the beginning of the thread..........

CKTC, I have the idea that a dog that barks don't bite. DH has a friend that is always bluffing about his romances and tbh he's more lonely than a dog, all his ideas of being attractive are just that... ideas. So who knows, maybe it's all fantasy. Having said that I doubt that if he was so busy with so many women he won't even consider to waste some time writing a diary, he would be exhausted!.

NOt sure what I'd do - but DH knows that when I first got together with him he was a "He'll do" date, because the person I thought I wanted to go to the "do" with I couldn't get hold of )we're been married 5 1/2yrs now).

Sorry to disagree with so many people - but I think the sensible thing to do would be nothing - you shouldn't have read the diaries, and there are no actual problems within your marriage.

Surely we all have a past - and maybe your dh didn't tidy his up quite as well as he should have before you married - but at the end of the day he did choose you - and your marriage is working.

I know it will be hard - but I really don't think you should rake all this up now - it will only lead to arguments, unsettling your happy marriage and who knows - may end up splitting you up.

I think you need to come to terms with what you've read in your own way - but I really wouldn't jeopardise what is essentially a great relationship.

It is helpful to have a variety of viewpoints on this - thank goodness for Mumsnet.

If I do tackle him about it, I really have to wait a while - he's coping with some fairly extreme stress atm and I'm not sure how he'd react.

When I think the time is "right", I'm not sure about a face to face discussion about it - it's unpleasant and a bit seedy and I won't be able to remain calm. I'm thinking about leaving something I've written "lying about" so it becomes clear that I've seen something hurtful, then see what he says.

Do I sound totally pathetic ?

Not al all pathetic - it's a terrible dilemma for you. Definitely wait a while whatever happens.

Hope it all works out for you xxx

Sorry i had forgotten what you said about his stress at the moment, ignore my comment about tackling him now.

You are the only person that can tell when that right time is, if at all.....hope it all works out ok for you though.

Curiosity, Id be studying shorthand if I were you! If its Teeline, its really easy to learn.

In a good relationship, one partner really shouldnt be writing stuff that must be kept secret for fear of hurting the other one. When I was married, I liked having space to myself, eg Mumsnet, but I never actually wrote anything that dx could have got upset about. Any spouse has the right to read their spouse's diaries, that's what marriage is about, sharing your lives. Otherwise, its just 2 individuals, living in the same house for economic and child-rearing reasons.

I must say that I would get more upset about discovering that I was second best than if my dh slept with someone else. It is probably true that by now he has stopped thinking of you as second best - but in your situation, Id want to be sure, hence reading his current diaries! Remember though, that however much he may fantasize about other women being better, you're still his wife, and that counts for a lot.

I also think he is very much to blame for leaving this sort of stuff lying around. He should have binned this when you got married. I dont think thats too much to ask as an investment in the relationship that you want to stick with for the rest of your life.

NN - I confess I have been trying to decipher the s/hand - I know it's teeline. Can't make head nor tail of it, except for the word "sex".

I just can't put this out of my head. I know it was a long time ago, and sometimes the calm words on this thread are helping, but I feel pretty distraught about it - the "honour" of him asking me to be his wife doesn't feel much like an honour atm.

I'm certain he's been faithful since we married. But if I discover he was sleeping with other people while we were going out, then that would still be very very difficult to forgive, because he spent ages convincing me there was nothing sexual going on between him and his long term ex. He said he had to keep seeing her, on a friends basis to keep her calm as she was unpredictable. I took some convincing because a mutual friend of mine and his ex hinted that they were still sleeping together (said mutual friend didn't know I was seeing him).

I told him then that if I ever found out that he had carried on sleeping with her whilst with me, it was the end.

My head hurts, circumstances mean I can't do anything about this at present and I want to run away .

are you going to ask him about it curiosity?

I think I have to, but not right now and I may do it by leaving something I have written about it "lying around" and see what he does/says. I'm scared of confronting him directly about it, because I loathe confrontation of any kind and I know I'll just sob and be unable to speak.

Admitting I can't face the direct approach now makes me think "Oh, I know why he thought I was unexciting, I'm rather boring and not feisty enough".

It's doing my self esteem no favours!

you need to approach him about this at some point in the near future but remember he did ask you to be his wife and has been with you for the past 5 years and had a family with you, that has got to count for something. try to focus on this aspect of the situation and realise you've both got a lot invested in this relationship. I bet we've all got things in our past that we are either not to proud of or have kept from out partners (big or small), but what is important is the here and now.

I have to admit, were it me he'd be practically out the door. I'd have waved it in his face.

It's not the refering to an ex so much - men are simple and comparisons may help!

But the I've got x for sex, and x is into me and x has nice tits etc... disgusting.

Did you even know he was looking at other women etc?

He'd be out the door.

BUT - it was BEFORE you were married and you are certain he has been loyal since then !!

Do you have a third party who could have a word with him - along the lines of "I'm really concerned about CKTC as she seems really worried about what went on before you were married. You weren't seeing other people were you ?"

I hate confrontation too - a third party might be something I'd consider, mind you my dh would be cross I'd talked to someone else not him - but then I don't have sisters.

BTW - I don't think being married means you ae entitled to read other people's diaries - it's not in the vows and I would be furious if my dh read mine !

CKTC - how miserable for you. I can totally understand you must be feeling wretched - and furious. My gut reaction to what you have said is that, as others have said, was a rather immature, ego-boosting exercise for him, rather than a direct threat to you and your relationship. I agree with whoever said that if he really was sleeping with any of these women, he would have detailed that too. I don't think you're second best - I think he just took a while to realise you were the one and was (rather pathetically, but there we go) working out his 'options' (all quite possibly total fantasies) in these diaries.

However, I also feel that if you are going to have it out with him - and I think you should - you need to do so directly. Sit down with him (when the time is right) and have an actual face-to-face conversation. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, I'd say he'd either be utterly mortified that you were upset about it, or not understand why you're making such a fuss. Either way, just leaving 'evidence' around that you have seen the diaries is likely to lead to a stalemate, with him not acknowledging that you've seen them - isn't it? I think you need to confront him - non-confrontationally of course but I think it's the only way you'll stand a chance of getting the answers you quite understandably need.

Feel free to entirely ignore this, btw, if you disagree! I really hope you can get through this - it is a horrible situation.

I know I have to be sensible about this. We have a marriage and children. I do feel ashamed of myself for being nosey and got what I deserved because of it I suppose.

This is eating me up so much, my judgement is a bit off, so need some advice about when I tackle this and how to cope in the meantime.

The timing couldn't be worse really - I found out about it all just over a week ago and then a couple of days later his father died, hence he's having a really bad time at the moment. I feel really selfish for not being able to forget about this.

I've just tried to forget about it, but it's making me feel really ill. I've lost half a stone in weight.

I can't see how I can possibly bring it up at the moment, but need to find a way to cope with this all in my head until I can.

Any ideas?

dont feel selfish hun, its not your fault this happened, he should have been more considerate before even writing this down as it is always possible for you to read this, and now u have done. just confront him soon as possible to set your mind at rest, or you may never feel trust with him again xxx

curiosity - think back. did you wonder about other men when you first started seeing your dh? I think many many people do in the early days of relationships. It does not reflect on the present. It is upsetting to find out your other half is thinking like this (I do know how you feel - dh actually told me he felt like this at one point.) but 1999 is a long time ago. How old was he then? If under 30 then a lot of it could simply have been down to his immaturity i think.

If I were you I would not confront him directly about it - not now and not ever. Snafu may be right about his response, but I would imagine that he'll feel angry and betrayed about the fact that you read his diary (not that i blame you). I would ask indirectly - maybe ask him why he asked you to marry him or something.

I can understand the idea of idly thinking about other women - that's only human - I seem to recall reading that men think about sex every so many seconds or minutes.

I did consider my possibilities, as I was still single too, but it's the tone and detail of this stuff that is haunting me and of course I personally know or know of some of the other women referred to.

Seeing a date with a womans name (not me) and "sex" next to it has put my brain into overdrive. He used to meet her at her flat - what else am I supposed to think? Don't think I mentioned that on my original post as I didn't detail everything.

If he wanted to screw around he should have done that, but my interpretation of is that he wanted to screw around, possibly did, and keep faithful little old me on the hook until he'd decided whether he'd settle for me. I'm not stupid,everyone manipulates situations and relationships to suit themselves to varying degrees, but he had it down to an art form.

He was over 35 when he wrote all this.

OK, over 35 and actual sex makes a big difference.

don't know what to suggest now.