Please help

[Ezma]

I don't really want to raise this with friends, families etc. as they will only try and persuade me that it's the wrong thing to do.

I separated from my husband just over six months ago. It was the culmination of months of arguments, unacceptable behavious by my husband (e.g. going out all night,obsessed with work, being uncontactable, not helping out at all with DS etc.) that started not long after DS was born nearly 23 months ago. The separation was instigated by me although I think that my husband escalated his bad behaviour not long before this as a way of pushing me to throw him out rather than him walking out of his own accord as it would be perceived by others that he was abandoning me. Not long after we separated I decided that I wanted to try and get to the bottom of it all and whilst I had explained to him my reasons, I wanted to find out his perspective and also see if there was any chance of trying to work things out. He has steadfastly refused to communicate with me on this subject at any time despite cajoling, me getting angry etc.... Anyway, there have been lots of arguments and incidents etc over the past few months which have been really unpleasant, upsetting and stressful some of which make me think that he hasn't been entirely truthful with me either.

He has seen DS on a fairly regular basis but actually seeing my husband is very stressful and upsetting and I desparately try not to show this in front of DS. Communication between husband and I is still very bad and invariably leads to arguments and misunderstandings.

Coupled with that, I was made redundant around the time of the split and whilst I have got a new job, it is full time so I am wracked with guilt about leaving DS in full time daycare and not spending quality time with him. As selfish as it sounds, I am also really upset at the prospect of having to "share" my DS with my husband at the weekends as this is the only time that I really get to spend time with DS. Monday to Friday it is simply a question of getting him ready and taking him to nursery and then putting him to bed at the end of the day.

The whole situation has also put huge pressure on finances and I am petrified that my husband will try and force a sale of the house. part of me is sensible (I am a lawyer so do know some of the ins and outs of family law) and I know that I have certain rights etc. but that doesn't stop me feeling as if the rug has been completely pulled out from under me and I am going to be faced with uncertainty and insecurity for the rest of my life (my parents split up when I was younger and the repurcussions of that are still reverberating even today for various reasons)and I am absolutely terrified of not being able to offer the comfort, love, security and stability that DS deserves and has a right to.

We recently started counselling which I persuaded myself to do albeit reluctantly as I had just started to put together a very fragile front on everything. I do still love my husband and part of me would love to try and reconcile with him but I know that it is not on the cards and he made that very clear last night as well. However, he maintains and even said last night that he didn't think counselling held any value as there was no point in going over everything. He doesn't seem to understand that we do need to try and understand what went wrong so that we can communicate better and be better parents to DS. I am totally distraught now as I feel that I am left in limbo with no chance of being able to move on properly, I am bound to him and indebted to him financially (he pays half of the household expenditure and DS's childcare) although I pay for DS's daily needs and activities despite earning less than him. I know that I am to blame for this whole situation as much as he is and am not trying to allocate blame. My behaviour (I became a control freak after DS was born as I found it very difficult to cope/ adjust to a newborn and, with hindsight, should probably have sought professional help for possible PND)probably exacerbated his behaviour and vice versa. I just can't understand why he won't have the decency to at least have one conversation or continue with the counselling (which at least is in a controlled environment so I can't shout at him indefinitely) so that we can understand where things went wrong and try and move on, even if a reconciliation is not on the cards (he said last night that he thought counselling was going to give me the wrong idea even though I had made it very clear that was not my intention). It seems that everytime I make a move forward in trusting him and trying to create a position where we can communicate properly about DS etc. without it erupting into an argument, he does something else which completely shatters my confidence and wish to try and sort things out. I have been to the doctors and have been prescribed betablockers and I have also developed quite bad PMT post birth of DS which leaves me feeling that the only way things would be better is if I were dead and therefore out of the picture. That way DS would be with his father, there would be no financial worries for DS's future and the family home etc.

This is also starting to have a serious impact on my job and ability to perform which scares me even more as I am still within my probationary period and whilst being made redundant once because of the economic climate is fine, it would be v. difficult to get another job if it happened again especially if it was due to me underperforming.

I am so sorry for this rambling post but I have got to the point where the only way I can see out of this which will avoid DS being affected by all this in the long term is for me is to effectively run away from it all. I have written a long letter to my husband/ others explaining everything which I plan to email to him and have made arrangements so that I can disappear indefinitely. DS really does not need a mother like me who is all over the shop emotionally, angry and upset all the time with no prospect of building up a civil relationship with his father. At least if I'm out of the equation then my DS can build up a proper relationship with his father, my husband will actually have to take on the responsibility of looking after DS and the financial worries and pressures will be lessened for my husband. I know that he will have a huge amount of support from both sides of the family and from friends so I know he will be able to do a good job of looking after DS and DS is fortunately at an age where he will forget about me very quickly.

Oh, ezma, you sound totally worn down, but please don't ever ever think that everyone would be "better off without you", as that seems to be what you are saying

I don't have any great advice, but I would urge you to keep going and try to seek some help, as things will undoubtably get better, even though it doesn't seem so just now. Just try to get some help to get you through this lowest point- if you can't talk to friends or family, what about the Samaritans? Or your doctor?

No matter how good a dad you think your exH can be, your ds only has one mum- you, and he DOES need you, now and for always. Please please get some help/ support.

E, am dashing out to collect kids but I'd say don't sent it .... yet. Wait till you've heard back from MN'ers. Your DS wants YOU and being emotional, angry & upset is what we all are to lesser & greater extents throughout life esp. child-rearing years. My parents were emotionally blank & it sets a completely unrealistic example. You are doing incredibly - working & caring is v. hard, don't throw the towel in yet.

Running away and or disappearing indefinately is NOT the answer here. I would urge you not to leave your son's life entirely in such a manner. He needs you, you're his mother and you need each other.
Your DS will be profoundly affected by his Mum abandonning him, its clearly not the answer here and doing that will make you even more unhappy.

Your H sounds totally unreasonable (not just to say emotionally abusive and manipulative to boot) and you've been banging your head against a brick wall because of his behaviours. Small wonder therefore you feel as you do. Does your GP fully realise the depths of your problems here?. I actually think that he has been the driving force here behind your current despair.

Please seek help from an organisation like Womens Aid; they can help and advise you further.

Will bump this thread too for other people to comment on.

Your DS wouldn't forget about you at 23 months quickly, I separated from my hubby in October when my daughter was 27 months and she still misses him terribly. I am on income support, as we are separated and he has lost his job due to redundancy.

I would actually be entitled to 80% childcare paid for, if I did get a job as a lone parent.

You would manage fine financially without him as you would be entitled to help with tax credits etc.

Don't runaway from everything, go back to your GP for starters, perhaps your medication needs changing/ adjusting. Book private counseling for you as well to discuss these feelings AND book some annual leave and have a break, as you need it!

Don't runaway, its not the answer. Come and join a lone parents support thread as well, like the one I'm on. Its a safe place to discuss these feelings.

SeeK counselling for yourself as soon as possible, concentrate on yourself and your DS. I really wouldn't recommend that you keep on trying to get your XH to go to counselling with you, or to keep trying to 'get to the bottom of what went wrong.' THis man is not going to give you what you want, and trying to make him do so is doing you harm. He doesn't love you and is not prepared to treat you kindly, any effort to get kind behaviour out of him is wasted effort. Please devote all your attention to your own wellbeing and that of your son, keep any communications with XH to practical matters and as minimal as possible.

Thank you everyone. One of the things that I find very hard to deal with is that husband now wants to be involved in DS's life and talks about forming a bond with him etc. That hurts me deeply as when he was at home and DS was very little, he showed little interest in wanting to form a real bond with him and take on looking after him. Even now, I think he has an unrealistic view on what being a father actually entails as he has never done any of the nitty gritty work such as bathtime, bedtime, getting up in the night. I think part of it was me being a control freak but that was also prompted by him showing now apparent interest and throwing himself into his work instead. I didn't mind so much when I was on maternity leave although it was apparent even then how much other dads did compared to my ex. His excuse for that was that his job was more pressured/ longer hours/ more responsibility etc. My view on that was that all the dad's had equally important jobs because each of us were relying to an extent on them having a job! It all became too much for me when I returned to work (albeit part-time) and I was still doing everything. Okay, I got the majority of the fun time with DS as well but it was v. tiring doing everything around the house, looking after DS and trying to work.

I am really frightened that if I start to be a bit awkward about him having access (which I have done to an extent already by insisting that his mum does the pick ups/ drop offs so that I don't have to deal with my ex) then he is going to get all legal with me (he is a lawyer too) and insist on his rights. Rightly or wrongly I do think he is being hypocritical in now saying he wants to bond with DS and spend more time with him but at the same time I know he is legally entitled to nor do I want DS to grow up not knowing or having a good relationship with his father or a totally skewed perspective on family life. I feel as if I have tried everything to improve the situation but am perpetually stuck in ground hog day. I am in such a muddle I just can't think clearly anymore and just want to hide from it all. I have tried to put on a brave front and friends/ family have been so supportive but I feel that after over six months, I can't rely on them as heavily as I have done and should be able to pick myself up. All of them have their own lives to lead and issues to deal with and I feel that I am being completely self-absorbed if I talk to them about this anymore. I am sorry that I am offloading this all on here but I just don't know where to turn or what to think anymore.

You really need some professional counseling to help you deal with this.

This is a very stressful situation.

6 months is NO time to take to put your life back together after such major upheaval. I personally think you've done amazingly to keep working/ looking after your ds and even try to sort things out with your husband!! I really doubt your friends and family would expect you to be "over it" by now. imagine how you would feel if it was YOUR friend or sibling- you'd want to help, wouldn't you? You wouldn't be thinking that they should have pulled themselves together, I'm sure!!

Give yourself a break. You need one, you deserve one, and hopefully one will soon come your way. Until then please lean on anyone you can and take care of yourself

please get some professional counselling - your ds needs you. if you cna choose someone who has expertise inf amily relationships/children too.

re: by insisting that his mum does the pick ups/ drop offs so that I don't have to deal with my ex --this is a very sensible way of dealing with the stress that comes from seeing/having to speak to your ex.

it is early days, things will settle but agree you need to get some counselling and perspective form an outsider - call samaritans please;

but accept that this is a really difficutl situation to deal wiht and you need support.

get legal advice yourself - if he gets legal, so can you - get some free initial sessions so you knwo where you stand.

it is a long haul - two years after i phsyically moved out and away there are still up and down moments - but you need to get thru it for yourself and your son.

Your DS would not be better off without you. Seriously, suppose it came to a worse case scenario - you lost your job and the house - even then, you could put your arms around him and he would feel safe.

Of course you're upset and confused and stressed out. Now is not the time to take any big decisions.

I definitely agree with the counselling. You have lots of painful emotions that are messing with your head and need to be dealt with.

Are your family any way supportive? Tell them you're not doing so great. Ask for help. You could do with being looked after for a bit.

Echo what everyone says - please make an appointment with you GP ASAP, or call the samaritans, or please stay here and keep chatting.

I think you are very frightened. You have been, and are still, in a very scary, stressful place right now. In these kind of circumstances the fear can take you over and your mind is running away, running onwards towards problems which may, or may not be in your future.

As far as the access is concerned (and I may have missed something) is it that you want to negotiate with your X to have maybe alternate weekends with your DS? In order for you to have some quality time? Because if this is your fear - honestly I think it's not going to be a problem. You may have to also negotiate a weeknight for him to have access as well, but believe me, as time moves on he is probably going to want every other weekend free in order to follow his own life.

Anyway, I may be well off the mark, but wanted to respond to you anyway.

I'm not sure about the counselling tbh as going to Relate really threw me into a panic and I just felt as if I was making myself really vulnerable in front of my ex by crying, admitting that I still loved him and also talking about how I felt about everything. After the first session I felt that perhaps I was being immature in distancing myself from him communication wise and insisting handovers were via his mum (she does live quite a long way away so it does involve a long train journey for her each way on the train) so I suggested that we continue with the counselling, that we met once a week to discuss the practical issues and that I was also prepared to see him at handovers. Subsequent to that he cancelled last week's counselling session (due to a meeting about which I am now increasingly sceptical) and it was yesterday afternoon when he dropped th bombshell about thinking that counselling held little value for us. Being cynical, it seems as if I basically caved in after that first session as I felt that I was perhaps being unreasonable and he has achieved everything he wanted and therefore doesn't want to continue with the sessions. This was after having seen him on Saturday for a handover during which we managed to be civilised and talk to each other in a coffee shop. It almost feels as if I am dealing with two completely different personalities in my ex. One where he is nice to me when he is getting his way and the other nastier side which comes out when I get upset/ angry about something and/ or he feels cornered. I know that a separation creates lots of miscommunication but I just feel that it is being taken to the absolute extreme here.

I know that I should get legal advice (rather than relying on my rather sketchy law school textbooks!) and have made an appointment with a solicitor several times. Each time, however, I've cancelled as I thought I should give trying to sort it out myself another shot. I know I should be sensible but it is getting increasingly difficult to do so.

I have tried to throw myself into other stuff such as voluntary work and my mum is living with me for the moment so that I can get out in the evenings and see friends, go to the gym etc. I know that I am very lucky to have that support from her and she does contribute financially as well which helps but living with her has its own gremlins and she has a lot of issues of her own which, although I've always known about them, I am now having to face head on and am realising that they are a lot more serious than I thought. I haven't got the strength to try and confront them as well so tend to try and get out of the house as much as I can after DS has been put to bed (he is a little star at bedtime which is a godsend at the moment).

Individual counselling NOT Relate.

This is about you finding a way to get through this, to separate from him without ripping yourself in two.

From an outsiders POV with no experience of divorce when I read your posts it seems that your x-DP just seems bound to do whatever messes you up the most.

So suddenly interested in DS when not before, and not at all interested in helping you get on with your life.

I suggest joining the threads for women with controlling abusive x-dhs/dhs as yours seems hell bent on making your life a misery.

Concentrate on yourself and getting you back together. You need to be there for the long haul with your ds! You have many many years to have a loving relationship with him.........he's not going anywhere so look after yourself.

much big non-mn hugs. You have managed a whole lot. Your xdh's behaviour is an indication of how much you have achieved. He's obviously terrified that you'll soon discover that life is much better without him. He sounds like a total prick who always needs to be the 'winner'.

good luck

This is something very important to remember. Your DS has a right to a relationship with his fahter (as long as it is not unsafe for contact to take place ie father is insane/violent/addicted to drugs or alcohol to the extent that he is not a safe person to care for a child). Your XP does not have a right to any kind of relationship with you. You can insist on all contact being through a third party, and given how manipulative and abusive your X sounds I would advise you to cut contact between him and yourself for the moment while you make looking after yourself and your DS your priority. DO seek legal advice from a solicitor experienced in family issues - it is probably a good idea to get one recommended by Women's Aid.
Best of luck.

I don't know what my ex wants in terms of access. I suspect that he will try to get weekends at some point. Notwithstanding his legal rights to this and the fact that I don't (very deep down) want to distance DS from his father, I am very fearful of DS spending weekends with him. This is not because I am afraid that DS will build a better relationship with my ex (ie. I am seen as the bad guy as it will inevitably be me that is strict mummy whilst ex will be fun daddy (something that he will be happy to do knowing that he won't have to deal with the consequences)) but because my ex has no real clue about how to look after DS. I know toddlers are robust and adaptable but my ex has never prepared a meal for DS, never given him a bath, never read him a story, never put him to bed or got up to tend to him when DS has woken up in the night with teething, being ill etc. The last time that my ex changed DS's nappy when he was still living with me he managed to put it on backwards, that's how little experience he has in looking after his son! Again I know this was down, to a great extent, to me being a control freak about DS's routine and care and whilst part of me thinks it would be a good idea for my ex to be thrown in at the deep end and be forced to look after DS I am worried that DS will be really upset by the whole experience and I know that my ex would just fall back on his family to bail him out as he always has done. It is a long running joke on his family's side that he never was practical so why should he be now?

You need individual counselling, there is nothing that any counsellor can do you for you as a couple from what you've said. It is over now, and you need to think of the future not the past.

When you say that you want to understand what went wrong I think that in general when people say this what they really mean (on some level anyway) is they want it to be proved by a professional that they were right and their partner was wrong. From what you've said it looks like you have quite a good idea of what went wrong ie the PND, his failure to bond etc.

I'm reading between the lines but there are obviously still very strong feelings there between you and XP, and I think that the arrangement that you have involving not seeing him etc is very good for the moment.

In time to come, you'll be able to see your XP without feeling anger and hurt, but it's too soon. Please don't try to limit your XPs access etc as he may well try to assert his 'rights' and that could get very unpleasant for you both.

My heart goes out to you, you've had such a tough time. But I don't know anybody who has successfully managed to gain closure by thrashing out the finer points of a relationship that's over with an unwilling ex. The only way to move on is to start focusing on yourself and your DS. Your XP takes care of himself.

He would not be better off without you. I watched a TV programme a few years ago about the children of suicide victims. Each and every one of them was really troubled and damaged by the fact their parents did what they did.

Even if you leave your job and downsize totally, you will be able to give your son what he needs - love and comfort.

Please see a Dr - I am sure it is the PND talking

OK, so we're back to the point I was struggling to make earlier on! He hasn't asked for weekends. Your fear is feeding itself and you're winding yourself up into a terrible state.

I guess you could try the what if game.

What if...he asks for weekends? Just because he asks doesn't mean he'll get.

What if I let him have DS on alternate weekends and XH can't cope? Do you think he's an abusive man? Do you think he'd hurt your DS, either deliberately or indirectly?

As to the ex falling back on his family? Are his family reasonable people? Will they see to it that your DS is weel looked after.

I feel for you, I really really do.

Ezma Your post has hit a nerve here. I'm off home from work in a few minutes, but just wanted to put my mark on this thread to come back to you tomorrow if I may. I've been in a very, very similar situation to you.

I will come back to this thread tomorrow and try to give you some encouragement - you can do this, you need to work through the practicalities of YOUR life with your DS, figure out some time table during the week etc.

I have to run now, but promise I will be back tomorrow.

I can say most definitely that your DS WILL NOT BE BETTER OFF WITHOUT YOU....

I know I am being a coward but I just feel that every time I try and sort this out, it all goes horribly wrong and the situation ends up even worse than it was before. It just seems to be one big downward spiral. I know that my ex does love DS even if he hasn't until recently demonstrated that particularly well and I know that he would have to pull through in terms of looking after DS if I wasn't around. I would hope that people would deal with things in a sensitive manner so that DS would never ever feel to blame for anything that I chose to do. I have spoken to Dr about counselling but Dr was of view that it would not be particularly beneficial and I was best off talking to friends and family. Paying for counselling is not an option as I can't really afford it and I probably earn too much to qualify for subsidized/ free counselling. I just think that I have got to the point where I can't burden friends/ family anymore. None of them have complained and I don't think they would ever do that but I know for a fact that a lot of them have their own problems to deal with and I feel that I have too little time or energy to give them the support and friendship that they deserve in return. I can't keep taking from them as it is just abusing the friendship. From my perspective, I know what I think went wrong in the relationship with my ex but I wanted to find out if he thought differently and what I had done wrong so that I didn't make the same mistakes again in the future. I don't think I could face being in the same position five or even 10 years down the line and knowing that I had f**ked up my life yet again and, more importantly, screwed up DS's life again through my actions and behaviour.

Sorry, I just wanted to say that I don't think my ex would be abusive, directly or indirectly to DS. He does love him but is just completely inept at looking after him in terms of the practicalities and still seems to think that taking him somewhere for the day, taking him out for lunch and buying a stupid present for him constitutes looking after him. His family are reasonable and would look after DS if my ex did make a cock-up of it but the point is that my ex should not have to fall back on his family to help him out. They live a couple of hundred miles away so are not there to provide immediate back up in any event. Oh and, also, ex chose to live 30 minutes away in v. expensive suburb. No idea of address as he refuses to give it me (alarm bells started ringing although he said it was because he thought I would be stalking him/ turning up in the middle of the night) so have no idea of his lifestyle and whether where he lives would actually be a suitable place for DS to stay.

You're not being a coward! You're being human. Fear and anxiety during a stressful time are totally normal feelings to have.

Go back to the GP. Please. You need some help, when things are this bad, bad enough for you to be talking about running away and...well, I think I'll focus on the running away rather than the other option; then you need some help.

My dad took the "other option" BTW, and I wasn't a child, but I can't begin to tell you how betrayed, bewildered and angry I still feel about it and probably will until the day I die. Please don't put your lovely little boy through that kind of pain.