Is this my epiphany - I'm soiled goods?

[Bobbins]

OK, I'm being a little bit of a drama queen here. But, I have just had a sudden (unsettling) thought that the reason why my nice catholic boyfriend, who I love very dearly, would not want children with me (or anyone else....he claims(!?)), ould be due to the fact that I have already had one child by another man. A soiled womb. I know it sounds archaic, but I feel like relations between men and women are in ways doomed to be archaic.

Forgive me ....I have finally gotten round to reading the first few chapters of "The Red Tent" and I am wondering about the whole sex, birth, death, man, woman thing and how this whole cycle can ever really CHANGE???????

I have, in the past lied about the previous number of sexual partners I've experienced, but there is no way I can deny the fact that I have previously been pregnant, laboured, breastfed and raised a child to meet his ten month roundness. I've just had this dreadful realisation that my pproud feelings about all of this might somehow be unattractive to a subsequent partner.

I remeber thinking it was quite undesirable to have different children by different men. When Harvey's left me that was one of my biggest fears, even though he was a complete arse I wanted another baby like Harvey, I didn't want to have another child with a different man. I have somehow managed to block this out until now. I suppose I am looking at this situation from my new partners perspective for the first time. I'm damaged goods, no matter how much you hope those attitudes do not prevail!

eugh

[SamboM]

Bobbins I'm so sorry to hear you're feeling so rotten. Please don't think like this, it is just you trying to understand why your dp doesn't want kids - and I suspect if he is 10 years younger than you that like most young men he just doesn't want them. Have you talked to him about feeling like this? Suspect it would be useful, I'm sure he would tell you that it ain't so...

biggest hugs to you ((()))

[Bobbins]

It is a big thing to ask, of course he is mindful. I have to consider that it would be a huge responsibility for him too, as i think the trauma I would go through having another child would be very different than the traumas of a first time mother, or second time mum with a healthy child.

Harvey's dad said he wanted to make babies with me straight away, so we went for it, and within two years, there Harvey was in all his loveliness. It all seemed quite simple, and it seems much more than simple, in retrospect.

[Bobbins]

SamboM> I think I probably grill him on the issue at least once a week, usually when I have had a couple of glasses of wine. He really has had to deal with a LOT of fall out.

[aloha]

if he thinks the way you think he does I can kind of understand it - I did worry that my dh wouldn't be so excited about our child because he already had one. But I got over that and now I think he just doesn't get very excited because he's from Yorkshire But he really wanted another child for kind of the same reasons as you - his daughter lives with her mother and he sees her every other weekend and he misses her so very much and loved being her parent every day (he was with her much more than her mother until she was four). He wanted to experience that again with me. I also wanted kids and we agreed we'd have a child together within weeks of meeting - but he was older (41) and already a parent which makes a huge difference. I found it so wonderful that we were able to be so open about wanting a child. And maybe I do have rose-tinted specs but the way you wrote about Harvey is just unforgettable.

[Bobbins]

and I am no shrinking violet, so he will probably have to witness a powerpoint presentation on all the issues arising from today's Mumsnet discussions. I really do think he should run away!

[Bobbins]

aloha> how did you feel about it not being his first experience of having a child. I am very interested.

[Bobbins]

Re-reading the thread thus far - I am a horrible nag on the baby issue, and I need to either shut up, or find a new and interesting angle...like a good hack.

[outofpractice]

Bobbins, I have been thinking for years whether it was my "fault" that I swept up exp in my longing for a child so that he appeared to agree when he was really reluctant and later refused to stay. This has made me afraid to be enthusiastic in a relationship with someone else about admitting how much I want more children. But actually, how many men really tell you first that they want you to get pregnant, and wouldn't you find it a bit creepy and wonder if he was just after a fab womb? Now I am thinking that if you are an enthusiastic person, you have got to let yourself go ahead with your desires and powerpoint presentations! If you did not have your enthusiasm, how would you ever have the bravery to try again a second time? And he is a grown up, isn't he, and should be able to deal with a direct and passionate woman! I hope that you will sweep him away with all your ideas and he will agree with you!

[Bobbins]

That made me ....will prepare presentation. Where to start? Picture of first born being born (no)...pic of my swollen belly....pic of Harvey breastfeeding with on computer table whilst I was sucked into reading Mumsnet postings.... pie charts of amounts of cups of tea I can demand???

[Bobbins]

Am no longer feeling ARSE....but more TIT

[pie]

Bobbins, I was always under the impression that your partner wanted to have children with you. Did I read this wrong or has he changed his mind? If he is Catholic could you be picking up on something his, presumably, Catholic family have said to him when he went back for a visit?

I know what you mean about wanting a baby just like your first. But whether you had a baby with Harvey's dad or not they would be a different child kwim?

Please don't think of yourself as spoiled goods. I too have thought of myself like this sometimes. My current DH was fanatical about their never being a good time to add to our family, but now fate has intervened and we are. I am now having daily panic attacks that he will love the baby I'm having with him more than the DD we are raising together. DD's bio dad is out of the picture, DH assures me he loves her as his own, but I always wonder.

But then I remind myself that he is a wonderful loving man who accepts the past lives with it and doesn't stop let it stop us from being a family. And thats something you need to remember! Plenty of good men out there will not 'hold your past against you'. I guess that things are still so fresh for you and your relationship is relatively new that maybe you will just have to wait and see.

And perhaps it is worth remembering that you DP maybe like nearly everyman ever and just be terrified at the thought of having children. You said Harvey's dad wanted children straight off, but he is probably the exception to the rule! I'm 23 weeks gone and DH is still freaking out even though we are already raising one child together. Men just seem to get scared.

You deserve love, happiness and to have as many babies as you want. Give your DP some breathing space, but let him know first that this is a serious issue to you and that a proper talk will need to happen in the future. Use the time to be kind to yourself and think about what YOU want and which direction you want to take your life in.

And please don't be so harsh on yourself.

Big cyber hug {{{}}}

[bossykate]

hi there, bobbins. it's not surprising that you're still going through the grieving process - for harvey, your relationship and your mum. it's no wonder your mind goes through such scenarios given what you've been through. i don't know what your partner thinks, but am absolutely sure that the notion of "soiled goods" is extremely outdated. no advice to offer, just hope you are feeling better tomorrow, and the day after that...

[SamboM]

Bobbins I meant have you talked to him about your thoughts that he thinks you are soiled goods (god that sounds awful and I'm sure he'd be horrified if you said it to him, but at least it might make him realise how much this means to you if you are thinking such things?)

[aloha]

Well, I did when pg accuse him of not being interested because it was old news to him and then bursting into a frenzy of sobbing. I did have a nagging feeling that the 'wonder' of it wasn't there for him. I was even glad ds was a boy because at least that was 'new' for him. But looking back and all, I do honestly think this is my dh's nature and not actually related to his previous experience. He's pretty 'contained' IYKWIM - not the least bit mediterranean. I would have liked it if he'd pretended to be a bit more thrilled and excited, though I do think men find it difficult to maintain a 'trilled and excited' position for the entire nine months of watching you expand. He's a fabulous father though, totally besotted, baths him every night, very affectionate and committed, which is what I think really counts. He did want children with me straight away - maybe he really admired my womb!! But then so did I so we were very well matched from that POV. I think few younger men are so keen on children - unless they are Jaimie Oliver.

[aloha]

BTW, his ex, who he had his daughter with is now married to a v v rich entertainment lawyer and has three more children. So he obviously didn't think she was 'soiled goods'. And she was over thirty.

[bossykate]

i couldn't stay thrilled and excited myself the entire nine months

[WideWebWitch]

bobbins, you know my situation - dp is 10 years younger, I have a ds by my (failed) marriage and I'm happily pregnant now with dp's first child. There is no way he ever considered me soiled goods and I wouldn't have considered myself in this way either. Experience is a good thing, honestly. IKWYM about different children by different men but I really don't think it is undesirable or unusual these days. If your proud feelings about your past experience and Harvey make you unattractive to a new partner then f* 'em, quite honestly, they're not worthy of you. But I doubt the soiled goods thing applies, really. In your dp's case it's much more likely to be his age. We've talked about this before haven't we? Give yourself some time and a break if you can, you aren't past it in childbearing terms, honestly. I hope you're feeling happier this evening and tomorrow is better.

[aloha]

I know, Bossykate, I kept forgetting I was pregnant when v busy at work, and would look down and do a comedy double take at the bump! But I did expect a bit more breathless joy which isn't really dh's style, frankly.

[tigermoth]

bobbins, this is a brilliant thread - so much hearfelt advice. I think you're very brave to look at your emotions like you do. I feel this is part of who you are, you like to dig deep. I hazard a guess this honesty is one reason why your dp loves you so much. You are open and you question things and you say what's on your mind -and not just your desire for a baby. For you to keep quiet about this would so out of character for you, he'd feel there was something terribly wrong.

You only have to look around you to see how many people have children by different partners. You can see it happiliy working out all the time. Do you know any families like this - any friends? Remember them every time you feel those negative thoughts.

Glad you felt better in your last post. Hope your new job goes well today.

[mmm]

I can't add anything except please please don't think yourself soiled. You are a fabulous warm person NOT a 'goods'.
I was a sex worker for 10 days a long time ago in Hongkong and when we were just 'courting' p thought it was quite sexy and exciting, now he thinks I should NEVER EVER dream of mentioning it, but I have very little problem with that interesting 10 days at all ! Be proud of your experiences and life !

[aloha]

Linda McCartney
Ulrika Jonsson
Kym Marsh
Madonna
Princess Anne
Sadie Frost (& her business partner Jemima French)
Kate Winslet
Kate Beckinsale
etc etc etc

all soiled goods? Nah (with a couple of possible exceptions ) but all found someone else better after having a child with another man.

[Ghosty]

Bobbins ... babe .... what can I say? I have just caught up and am shocked that you are thinking in this way .... I am so sorry that you are having a hard time.
There is not much more that I can add to the already great mumsnet comments that have been posted here ... except that YOU ARE A GODDESS ... anddon'tyouforgetit!!!!!
Huge emormous hugs coming your way from NZ {{{{{}}}}}
PS ... I have two very close friends who found true love and had more children with men who hadn't had children before .... and they (the men) never once saw them as 'soiled goods' as you put it!!