Dating: How long can I expect a man to wait before sex?

[BEAUTlFUL]

H left in September. End of October, I met on Match and started emailing someone and we went on a first date beginning of November. Had a second date, then didn't see him again till January. We didn't even kiss!

Since Jan have been seeing him regularly, once or twice a week. he is funny and generous, but I'm worried he might be a bit of a Player as, I dunno, he seems the type. Anyway, I've told him that I'm not the type to rush into bed and he said he was fine with that. We have done some Rude Business but not shagged.

My instinct is just not to bonk him yet. I don't know if he'll just run away the minute I do. Plus, he only came out of an engagement last summer, and I'm out of a 7-year marriage, so it feels a bit early.

We get on SO well, and it's all lighthearted and fun. I rarely ring him, but he texts me a lot, posts messages on my FB page, etc.

Two dates ago, he actually asked outright if we could have sex the next time we saw each other! I saod, "Probably not," and later cancelled that date, not fancying an evening of wrestling on the sofa. Next time I saw him, he suggested we had (for the next date) a sleepover at his (which I declined).

Ugh. I don't know what to do, except meet him only in public places. I've explained that I feel it's too soon still, but he is mentioning it a LOT now. For example, "I want you all the time," "You do now I'm crazy about you and really want to sleep with you, don't you?" and the worst - "You make me happy. Come back o my place and I'll show you eactly how happy you make me."

I realise this makes him sound like an utter tit but the rest of the dates are great -- really funny, complimentary, and he always pays.

Help! I'd like to keep seeing him, but I really want him to back-off on the constant shag-badgering. What do I do?

If you want to have sex with him then do, if you don't want to then don't.

It is then up to him whether he is still interested. But I wouldn't have sex with someone just to continue their interest (or for any other reason than I wanted to really).

it doesn't entitle him to sex but by using this wording you are perpertuating the idea that sex is something done to the woman and something the woman gives to the man.

I view sex as something a bit more mutual than that - ie there is something in it for me as well - not something I let a man do to me.

It all sounds very old fashioned. I think I even had that view of sex in the 80s too.

I would not feel comfortable about a man paying all the time either. I am now in the position of being really broke though and so don't mind it every now and then.

we're back to using it as a bargaining tool again - very unhealthy in a relationship I think.

Okay I know this is probably going to irritate some people but, IF I was a man, I would have more respect for a woman who did not submit to any kind of pressure. Think about it. In any interaction, if you put pressure on someone, and they give way, you have been allowed to take control. You have given them the upper hand. Even if it is only subconciously, on one level he will be thinking "I can push this person around".

Like it or not sex IS (at least partly) linked with power, control and emotional and other vulnerabilities. There is the possibility of getting hurt, or embarrassed, or being vulnerable. Each person, at each stage, has the option of changing their mind - whether we like it or not.

In this case of the poster, she has come out of a long term relationship where there were some issues (as there always are, in one way or another) and she is quite rightly protecting herself.

Sex doesn't HAVE to be a big deal - but, if you genuinely like someone, then it is something that needs to be negotiated with care within the relationship.

Having said that, I still think sex is the easy part of a relationship, once you get going that is. But - enjoy the build-up - that is almost as good as the real thing in my, probably perverse, opinion!

I see your point of view Dittany but doesn't it still have the underlying premise of men want sex and women don't.

If you strip off years of patriachy and misogny and double standards surrounding sex wouldn't you find that some women want and enjoy sex just as much as men.

And if you are dating someone steadily isn't sex a natural progression unless you have a religious belief that you shouldn't have sex before marriage.

You can have sex as soon or as late as you want to.

the fact that you don't seem to want to at all points to you not fancying him, in which case you should let him go.

personally, I would expect someone I liked and respected and who I was dating to want to put out within a couple of months. This is because I have been saddled with a high sex drive before, and if someone hasn't got blue-balls after a couple of months of messing around, it makes me think they either don't fancy me (in which case they can get lost) or have a low sex drive (see above)

Dittany - I agree with you on principle, but personally I would want to have a healthy sex life in my relationship and if I wasn't getting one I would be seriously questioning if I wanted to be with this person.

I happen to be one of those women who loves and enjoys sex and is an equal partner in it. I do it as much to my OH as he does to me - usually more if truth be known.

No, Beautiful should absolutely not have sex with him if she doesn't want to. But personally at this stage in my life I would not be with someone I didn't want to have sex with.

Maybe when we are old and wrinkly I might leave him alone but we ain't there yet.

temple maiden you articulated better what I wanted to say

I also find it a bit off that he always pays. It isn't right. More worrying than the sex IMO.

My OH likes to pay for me when we go out, but I do sometimes insist that I pay. It is never linked to sex though - we have sex no matter who pays.

Sometimes if I pay for a night out though I tease him that now he has to put out!!

However he doesn't really like it if I pay - he is a little old fashioned in that respect.

Dittany: While I think some of the advice Beautiful has been given does smack of the old-fashioned 'rules' ie man pays for dinner, woman drops knickers, I think what is maybe the issue here is that dating someone tends to include an expectation of some sort of sexual contact at some point. If you don't think of someone in a sexual way, or the idea of having sex with the person repulses you, then you shouldn't be dating the person, you should either make it clear that you want to be friends only, or move on altogether.
And if you know that you really aren't up for the idea of having sex with a particular person, ever, you should be tactfully honest about it, not keep going oh well, maybe, when the time's right when the thought of it turns your stomach.

i don't think who pays for things is particularly important, as it doesn't really change anything. does it make you like him more?? no.

purely hypothetical, years since i (briefly) did the datng thing.

in a way, i think it is nice, shows they want to be a 'gentleman' even if in other ways this particular guy is not being v. gentlemanly.

Slightly going off at a tangent here I admit, but althouth myself and DW have a joint account she still likes me to pay for things whilst we're out, she's old fashioned like that, and even though it's all the same money at the end it seems to make her happy I make the psysical act of paying.

I agree usually it's not a good idea to make they guy pay all the time, and before being married I'd have thought a girl was great if a girl took me out and paid now and then (it never happened!), some people just are old fashioned and they'll never be happy or comfortable being thrust into a new way of thinking..

That was nice of you, dogfish.

Hi Beautiful. You obviously feel very strongly about not wanting to have sex with him yet, which is fine of course regardless of number of dates or who paid or anything.

But:

• if you don't fancy him that much, in the pure lust kind of way, then it's probably time to tell him and try to make it work as friends. N.B. Being very nice and generous and wanting to be your boyfriend is not the same as being lustworthy, try to remember that (I have often failed and confused love and friendship, it is a bugger)

• If you feel it is too soon to have sex at all with someone who isn't your DH, or you just don't want sex at the moment, you can't say how soon you will change your mind about this.

• If you are just enjoying his company and the dates without wanting anything further, it suggests you might just really need friendship and not a boyfriend, and should perhaps work on finding new friends and meeting up with old ones.

In any case, it sounds like a pretty visceral reaction against sex, so worth thinking more deeply about it.

Do you actually want a "boyfriend"? He will deffo take it as an intention to have sex at some point if you say yes to this.

He is not going to invite you for a weekend away if you don't even want to stay at his house, it would seem pushy and ridiculous!

And if you like him and all is well, I don't think asking about sex makes him a bad guy, he is taking the lead at every point in this relationship after all. Oh and don't let him pay for everything, you are both grown-ups and if he can't handle it, he's a giant misogynist-- very silly man.

meant giant misogynist

One more thing (put a sock in it Elephants).

It's all about what he wants and what you don't want. Have you thought about what you actually want? I remember your Stepford thread (v funny and one of the first I read) which was all about leaving control to your husband etc, I think. Well, maybe splitting with your H is a good chance to reshape your life as you want it, because you are in control now. Just think - in an ideal world, like if you were daydreaming about it, how would things pan out with this man in the short/longterm? Please answer, I want to know!

I still dont like that he keeps going on about it . What if it was the other way round and HE didnt feel ready for sex, having just recently split from a spouse?
Would it be ok for beautifull to keep going on about it to the point that he starts to arrange dates in the open ?

I dont think 15 dates is a lot , i dont feel i owe anybody anything and if i didnt want to have sex with them i wouldnt apreciate being accused of playing games, and especially not by other women.

Fwiw before i got into bed with any man i would seriously expect him to get fully tested. Ive done this twice and although they were a bit surprised they willingly did. My health is a bit more important than some bloke getting his end away. Im not a prude, but having known someone whos contracted a life threatening illness std im understandably wary.

Second what another poster said op, maybe you would feel a bit more omfortable with just a freindship.Hope everything works out for you.

I think you should have sex with him if you want to- without over-intellectualising it to the point where you wonder if it means anything more than just that. To a certain extent you have to be robust enough to write it off, but be open to it taking things forward.

If the sex is shit, or the guy backs off, then at least you haven't wasted any more of your time. But don't do it at all unless you actually fancy him.