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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Do I just need to accept that I was a Slut?

315 replies

cheekymonk · 01/03/2010 20:27

Evening All! I am happily married with one ds now but back in my uni days I was very promiscuous and did sleep with over 100 men roughly. I used to have to get really pissed to have the confidence to approach anyone (mainly due to being fat). I was lonely and although I had made some friends, I wanted a boyfriend too and in my warped mind sleeping with someone and being wanted for all of 30 mins or if I was lucky, the whole night was the next best thing.
I lived with 6 male housemates at the time who were appalled my behaviour. I did have threesomes/forsomes (and a fivesome too I think!) which was what pushed them into really despising me. One night I brought someone back, he went then I went back out and brought someone else back. It is shocking and I was out of control but those housemates were so vile.
I ended up recently sending a message to one of them on facebook. I wanted an apology but have today come home to this
"It has been a long time - 13 years in fact, which i why suddenly recieving this from you scares me that you have gone to the lengths to find me. Obviously some deep seated resentment there that you probably need to get off your chest/deal with through professional help. Either way - yes behaviour to you may not have been entirely appropriate, but my did you deserve it. Hoping to find brother figures? WHy on earth? I cannot imagine why you, a second year, felt the need to take a room with six male 4th year students. Most 2nd years got digs with friends they made in the 1st year...!!!! To refute some of your allegations about us. 2 of us had girlfriends, neither of them cheated on them. The rest of us, me included, enjoyed a significantly lower level of "single life" than you did - as you said it's what people do at uni...mainly with students met at the Student's Union", though, not with sailors they pick up in Joanna's night club. While I am all for enjoying the single life, both for men and women - you took it to such an extreme. 2 guys in one night I recall...one at about 1030 and then you going back out to bring another one back! Another stealing my bike from the hall! I hope my thoughts about the way YOU behaved are clear. I may have been a little immature back then and yes, 13 years is a long time. But do I have any regrets/would I behave differently to such a prolific enjoyment of the single life as yours now - I doubt it. I trust that I will not hear form you again."

I feel so gutted and worthless, just like I did then. I sincerely regret raking up the past. I am trying to understand now WHY I behaved so badly and try and reconcile the past but am having trouble.
Any thoughts? Do I just need to accept that i was a total slut back then??

OP posts:
BitOfFun · 02/03/2010 23:45

I kind of sit between Dittany and scottishmummy on this one...it's no good dredging up the past (as you found out, and the tone of your e-mail came from that long-ago place), but I get why it's difficult to think about those times- you were having a hard time. But it's a while ago now, and perhaps better to focus on your health and happiness now. That might best be served by drawing a line under it all, and if you need some therapy, look at practical ways of coming to terms with forgiving yourself (not because I think you were a slut, but because you still struggle with it all) and being content with the undoubted success you've made of your life.

lowrib · 02/03/2010 23:46

I haven't read all the thread (sorry) but I would say - any underlying problems aside - I think your main problem isn't yourself, or any lack of standards, but simply that you picked badly on the housemate front. They sound like arseholes!

Having lots of partners as a woman is still frowned on in many circles, but if you'd been hanging around with me and my mates no one would have batted an eyelid! We're all grown up and boring now, and plenty of us are in steady monogomous relationships now, and married with kids, but my group of friends partied hard for about a decade.

Compared to the more promiscious of my mates I've been pretty tame - I reckon I've probably only slept with about 60 people or so. Two of my best female mates have slept with 300+ and I've never asked my DP how many exactly but his record is up there in the hundreds too. Many of my other mates have similar numbers. Others of my friends just aren't like that and have only slept with a handful of people. None of us judge each other.

Please try to ignore any people judging you for sleeping with lots of people. You should not be at all ashamed of the numbers! Yes it's outside of society's norms, but jesus - if everyone lived within society's norms how boring it would be!

However, moving on from the numbers - if you behaved in a way which put you at risk, or made you feel that you were treating yourself - or others - badly, then - without beating yourself up - you need to find a way to deal with this so that you can move on. Be glad that you are not acting like that now. If it's doing your head in, then counselling could well be of use.

But please, my dear, don't beat yourself up for the numbers alone. Please don't let yourself feel worthless. You have led an interesting life at least, which is more than many! Leave the past in the past, and stay clear of arseholes! 13 years is unlikely to have improved them, and you certainly don't need their validation.

HTH

BitOfFun · 02/03/2010 23:57

Thinking about it a bit more, I think that men with abuse issues or problems with intimacy eventually overcome them and look back on periods of 'promiscuity' and general twattishness in their youth as merely sowing their wild oats.

Oh to be so uncomplicated! But there is something in it. It's all done now, you've worked it out, you are clearly capable of a happy committed relationship in which you are faithful. Why on earth beat yourself up now? You survived whatever demons you had, and it sort of made you the person you are now. Let up on yourself. And leave facebook alone!

Trillian · 03/03/2010 08:03

I am sorry if you think it a misogynist thing, I assure you it is not, if a man slept with 100 women he would be a male slut.
Whoring is whoring what ever gender the person is.
It is not nice to have so many sexual partners, can you imagine the amount of STDs one could catch (and spread) would anyone really want to sleep with a man/woman who had been the town bike?

It is not PC to think that putting it about it ok, it is wrong, dirty and as you can see from the OP it is damaging.

Instead of welcoming promiscuity, maybe more people need to say it is nasty.
Also anyone who thinks having sex in a living room with multiple strangers not only has no respect for their own well being but has no respect for anyone around her, also I think it shows a lack of social skills.

The OP is clearly damaged by how she behaved and a quick shag with Lord knows who just to feel wanted is a symptom of the low self esteem the OP has.

Also can you imagine what was said about her on campus? The uni bike, I bet people took bets on her, although the men she slept with are no better then her TBH, to go off with someone clearly drunk and just looking to pick up whoever is feeling up for it is not a nice thing to do.

I do think the OP needs to leave her old flat mates alone, if she continues to bother them they should report her under the stalking laws

OrmRenewed · 03/03/2010 08:14

I don't think it matters what you thinks she was or other people think you were. It really doesn't. Put any name to it you like, it doesn't matter. And what you did then was the past. Not now. If you still have self-esteem issues deal with those.

And I am still struggling to see what your flatmates have anything to apologise for - your behaviour may well have made their lives very uncomfortable at the time. As I said earlier I have had experience with flatmates bringing home dubious blokes and it isn't pleasant. Being promiscuous isn't the issue - forcing them to share space with all your various partners is. Leave it and don't expect them to apologise.

OrmRenewed · 03/03/2010 08:17
cheekymonk · 03/03/2010 08:19

Thanks Dittany. I was puzzled byt the attention seeking too and yes have been shocked by some of the judgements. I have read other posts about peoples worst secrets and I remember everyone jumped on someone who enjoyed a particular variety of sex (don't wish to offend more people by describing it!)
I agree lowrib. I did just pick the wrong housemates!
I didn't really sleep with many students. It was all sailors! it was so much easier and less pretentious too. I often found the union an impossible place to try and fit in.
The lounge scenario was a one off. I realised pretty quickly how low I had stooped.
There has been a fair bit of venom I feel here and a very much you got what you deserved vibe from many.
I punished myself for years and do feel I have been lucky not to have had any stds, been through the ordeal of an abortion or similar and been lucky enough to have my son. I did try to be careful in that respect.
I think promiscuity is ok if you can deal with it in your own mind but for me it was a vicious cycle of needing to be wanted, feeling some kind of affection then feeling a million times worse afterwards when it often was just so soulless as of course sex with strangers wold be! Sometimes though, I really enjoyed it- there would be the odd nice guy and it felt wild and fun and free but there were the always the mental repurcussions of giving yourself so easily. Anyway must go mto work!

OP posts:
thesecondcoming · 03/03/2010 08:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RealityIsMyOnlyDelusion · 03/03/2010 09:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Mongolia · 03/03/2010 09:24

Looking at the name of the thread... "Do I just need to accept that I was a Slut?"

Perhaps the answer is yes, just accept it and move on. As the title says, you no longer are.

It helps, some time, just to acknowledge the problem, and move on. It is certainly easier to say "yes I was, I annoyed a lot of people and I'm sorry for that, but at the time, it was GREAT fun" rather than find a thousand and one reasons to tell you you weren't even when you were so openly active and disrespecting of other people spaces.

Acknowledgement of a problem is the first step to recovery.

scottishmummy · 03/03/2010 09:29

the most striking feature is inability to see anyone else point of view.habitually diminisihing the impact of her actions on other flatmates.regurgitating facts and emotions 13years on.

you cannot contest the answer the flatmate gave you,as that is his lived experience.his subjective opinion.how you made him feel

so stop dragging upo past.stop expecting others to offer you forgiveness

moooooooooooooove on sister

GetOrfMoiLand · 03/03/2010 09:31

Very kind and wise posts from Mathan and Quint.

OP you would do well to listen to the advice in those.

I am prbably not the best person to give advice - in that you are absolutely the oppostie of me. I tend to put every horrible thing in my past in a great big mental box in my head and try to forget about it. You open that box and share all your thoughts and feelings with everyone. Neither approach is good for your mental health.

I would agree that you would do very well to have some therapy to speak about what has happened in your past.

Don't see ANY relevance in the whole door kicking down scenario. Why does the OP have to explain that in forensic detail?

posieparkerfuckityfuck · 03/03/2010 09:35

Would love to read the list of accusations you threw at this guy for him to write such a response. I'm guessing he came across like a dick because you were pretty awful in your letter. We all make mistakes when we're young for a range of complex reasons or no reasons at all. If you met 20 year old you, what would you say and think?

SolidGoldBrass · 03/03/2010 09:43

Trillian@ What a remarkably ignorant post. I have slept with about 150 people and have never once had a social disease. Nor have I brought home nutters who stole from my housemates. If you;re doing it for the right reasons (ie you enjoy it, you choose partners who are nice people and treat them with courtesy and kindness) having lots of partners and plenty of group sex is wonderful and does no harm to anyone else.
Plenty of monogamists stalk, harass and sometimes even kill their partners over sexual jealousy.
Basically nice people are nice people and arseholes are arseholes no matter how much sex they have and who with. More well-informed promiscuity (ie use condoms, be kind, have fun and if it's not fun, stop and work out why) would be socially beneficial and diminish the general culture of misogyny and the influence of those whose particular sexual dysfunction takes the form of being obsessed with controlling the sexual behaviour of strangers.

BridesheadRegardless · 03/03/2010 10:06

Cheekymonkey, I hope you are OK. I think this is a much deeper issue than most people are recognising and the focus that you, and other posters, are putting on the emails, is not really the issue here.

His email may seem like the issue as it has dredged up all the old feelings and fears that you haven't fully dealt with, but ataully the real isue is why did you behave in this way in the first place all those years ago, how do you really feel about that now, why are you still so hurt by how people were towards you then and why do you still care what these people who now have no bearing on your life, think of you now?

Your behaviour was not uniquely bad, but it was quite an extreme version of what many of us were doing at that time.

I can realte to it though. Although my numbers do not come near yours and I was never involved in group sex, I did sleep with more men than I now feel comfortable with, and I have spent alot of time lately thinking about why that was, and discussing it with those women who know me well, and who also behaved in the same sort of way.

This has become particuarly relevant for us as mothers, when considering the signifcant impact that sexual attention plays in a young girls self esteem and image. And it is quite rfightening for those with daughters.

So mnay young womens self esteem is wrapped up so closely as to be inspeareble from her view of herself as attractive and sexy. As I have got older and become more consciously aware of this, and as my life circumstances have changed and become more settled, I have been able to see how true this was for me and how my behaviour reflected this, and how I wish i'd known then what I know now and behaved differently. but of course I didn't know I had to learn.

I remember someone on Mn (probably MP)saying something like 'when I was younger if anyone showed any interst I'd sleep with them and if they'd asked I'd probably have married them.' That struck a chord with me about how I felt about myseklf in the past.

I certainly didn't think like this at the time though, i thought I was having a laugh, being a liberated party girl and just doing what the blokes did (it was the time of ladette culture) but I see it differntly now.

forget this bloke and his email. Think about you and your life now. think about your past and what that tells you about you, but more importnatly waht it tells you about people, about women, about young women, and how having been through that, been like that, you have, painfully, actually learnt soemthing, and then use that knowledge in your role now as a mother and as a women in understanding the world and other people.

You behaved badly, we can all argue endlessly, about how relatively bad we think yurs vs the housemates behaviour was, but really that doesn't matter now. what does matter is that all experience is a learning opportunity, and the more we learn and know the wiser we are.

I imagie you've been in turmoil over his emaia dn what he still thinks of you, and now in turmoil over what some posters have said. forget him and his opinions of your behaviour, forget all us MNer's, and just do some real thining about you now, about yourself then, talk it through with people who really know you if you can, I reckon some serious self refelection will help you to realise that actually you're OK.

BridesheadRegardless · 03/03/2010 10:16

cheekymonk sorry, trying to be kind and get your name wrong!

SGB I think trillian has a point that the way lots of young girls engage in promiscuity is damaging to them and the reasons they do it are underlying destructive ones, and I think this is glossed over in todays sexualised 'girls have to be gorgeous, sexy, funny, bright and popular but mosr of all gorgeous' culture.

I think the type of open sexual attitudes you talk about and experience are quite differnt to the drunken, self affirming promiscuity I and the OP and many young girls have engaged in the past, which I think can be very destructive.

i agree though that trilliams seemingly underlying attitude of they are disgusting filth not worthy of empathy is deeply unpleasant.

scottishmummy · 03/03/2010 10:23

OP do you get a vicarious thrill out of mn and old flatmate discussing your behaviours.what motivates you to disclose all this now?

1st big life lesson.self responsibility for one actions.ability to reflect and learn without getting stuck

2nd big life lesson accept reponsibility for how you emotionally impact upon others,respect their individual subjective experience.accept you cant change others,but can moderate self and self behaviours

irmacrabbe · 03/03/2010 10:38

What a great post Brideshead, was also one of those poor girls whose self-esteem was reliant on whether men found me desirable (and a lot did unfortunately). Still haven't shaken it off but am trying really hard.

Am determined that DD will not have the same issues and will be equipped to make wise choices.

And OP, scottishmummy's post is the only advice you need. Be grateful that you have a good marriage and that you didn't fuck up your life sufficiently to make that impossible.

ShinyAndNew · 03/03/2010 10:45

ScottishMummy I gathered that she was looking for accpatance fo her past behavior from MN and this guy because she is finding it difficult for whatever reason to accept it herself and somehow feels that validation from others will help her do this.

OP - It won't. No matter the rights or wrongs, very few women or men will say that you did was accpetable. I disagree strongly with those women and men btw, but as Dittany says, there is still a double standard. There are also those who believe that only what they do (sleep with people only in committed realtions) is right.

The only perseon who is capable of giving you accpetance and forgiveness in a way that will help you is yourself. You need to find a way to do that and then put your past away and leave it there.

SolidGoldBrass · 03/03/2010 10:46

Brideshead: I agree that some young people, particularly young girls, are having sex with arseholes for the wrong reasons, but the way to help them is to reinforce the message that promiscuity is great if it's done responsibly and if you enjoy it. It;s the same old polarity between the 'bad' girls who have lots of sex (but ooh no they can;t really enjoy it, they must be acting out in some way etc etc) and the 'good' ones who keep their pants on and save it for 'commitment' ie sell it to the highest bidder.
What is happening is the usual crap of telling girls to stop having sex, because the more they have, the more their property value goes down, that men want to have sex with them but won't like them if they like it, that it's immoral, etc, etc, the same old shit.

BridesheadRegardless · 03/03/2010 11:00

SGB I think it's really interesting and this is part of the discussion I've been having with my old uni friends. I believed at the time I was having a good time, I thougt it was liberated and fun, but with hindsight experience and a greater undersatnding of myself I now believe that actually I was looking for some self affirmation I needed attention from men to reassure myself, I would have felt worthless without it.

I think myself and the OP are unlikley to be unique in this, I think this is a huge issue for many young women today, more so even than 20yrs ago for me, I think young womens self image is damagingly linked to sexual attrcativness to men today.

I agree that this gives us a problem where open healthy expression of female sexuality is caught up and supressed by the attention needing promiscuity and it is now very hard to unpick one from the other.

I think with older more experieneced women an open experiemental sexuality can be a healthy sign, and obviously some younger women are together enough to make these decisions clearly, but i think there is an awful lot of sex by women motivated by an underlyning snese of worthlessness that is not healthy.

Example: I thought I was having a wild liberated fun time sleeping around at uni.

I didn't have an orgasm until I was 30yrs old!

I really had to ask the question what was I getting out of that sex?

slug · 03/03/2010 11:03

Hi Cheekymonkey. If no one else has said it already, did it occur to you that the girlfriend you know he was cheating on is now his wife? This may explain his aggressive response a bit, especially if said wife saw your initial email.

The others have said it far better than I can. You need to be kind to yourself. You don't need to forgive yourself because there's nothing to forgive. Your behaviour was a result of your mental state at the time. If your flatmates couldn't see that you were vulnerable and had low self esteem then that is a failing of them not of you.

Many, many of us had a wild past. I refuse to be embarassed by mine, in fact I laugh about it. However, it does make it very difficult to take the high moral ground with DD about her behaviour, not that it stops me from trying

scottishmummy · 03/03/2010 11:14

slug you cannot presume anyone mental state or retrospectivly excuse behaviours because of assumption about her mental state.nor can one just exonerate op and apportion blame to her flatmates

op has to take responsibility for her behaviours and its impact upon others.no way is anyone ever going to learn or recover by haering oh it was all them.in fact that impedes laerning and propensity for change

op needs to take responsibility for her behaviour and how it impacted upon others.but most of all she needs closure and moooove on sister

slug · 03/03/2010 11:30

I'm not assuming it scottishmummy, I was responding to Cheekymonkey's own assesment. I also don't blame her flatmates for her behaviour. I do, however, think they were less than compassionate and probably exacaberated the problem by treating her with little or no respect for behaviours that would be applauded in a man. I just can't imagine how you could live with someone and not notice a young woman constantly and deliberately putting herself in danger.

To be fair though, I've worked for many years with adolescents and have seen similar behaviour in many girls. They have all without exception been vulnerable, had low self esteem and the vast majority (though not all) had been sexually abused at soem time.

scottishmummy · 03/03/2010 11:42

slug one cannot excuse or overlook op behaviours to others.op has a responsibility for her actions and how they impacted upon others.she shared a communal living space and adversely impacted upon others by her own admission.

too reductionist to say op was troubled and someone else should have acted,hence not her fault

understanding and accepting ones past behaviours and triggers can enhance and inform current behaviours and good mental health.but the key is appraisal and acceptance of ones actions.and how the affected others

well meaning excusing it saying someone else should have noticed only impedes laerning.and adds to any feeling of external locus of contrl

on a positive note,she reports being a happy mum.,so obviously has propensity to change and moderate her behaviours

now the rub is to look at the process by which she became happier and extrapoltae what it was that worked