Please give me your advice re cheating - don't know what to do!

[OnceACheater]

Loads of very personal info about to be disclosed so obviously name changed.

We've been married for 2.5 years, together for 9 years, planning TTC DC1 later this year.

I come from a very dysfunctional family and have suffered from depression and low self-esteem most of my life. He had an idyllic childhood (I have a lot of trust and respect for his parents - they truly have a perfect marriage).

I know it sounds corny and unrealistic but I've always seen DH as my knight in shinning armour. He pretty much saved me from a life of constant despair, treats me like a princess, has been there for me during the lowest periods in my life, makes me feel special in so many ways on a daily basis. He is in many ways all that I could ever wish for in a man (kind, funny, intelligent, hard working, supportive).

Not everything is perfect of course. We're from different countries and I do have a tendency to misinterpret him and he sometimes finds it difficult to explain his feelings. So we do have very heated arguments every now and then but once we calm down and talk, we learn, move on and generally have a great time together.

Oh gosh, I'm trying not to make this too long!

18 months into our relationship he left to work abroad. This was always his plan and even though I encouraged him to follow his dream I never really expected him to. I always hoped he he would love me enough not to want to go. I was heartbroken but we agreed to 'stay together' but if either one met someone else we would tell the other person and end our relationship.

We kept in touch and I went to visit him a couple of times. After about 6-8 months he told me he had met someone else and had been with her before I visited him. At the time he didn't think it was cheating...! Of course I was devastated, again. Specially when he admitted he had been with 3 different women in total during that time.

After working abroad for 12 months he decided he wanted to settle down and he wanted to be with me for the rest of his life. I agreed to give it another try but I expected some serious commitment. We had a difficult long distance relationship for a year (he went back to his home country to save some money so we could move in together). We spoke on the phone pretty much every day and saw each other every 2 months. I pushed him away a lot during this year but we stayed together by focusing on how good things had been in the first 18 months of our relationship.

After a year we felt financially ready to move in together. I wanted to get married before we moved in but agreed that it would be wise to actually try to live together first. I agreed as long as living together would not be a long-term option. We got engaged after 6 months and married 2.5 years after that (we had to save some more!).

We started arguing A LOT when we moved in together and after 4 months of this went to Relate. He stopped going when the therapist kept on asking him about his childhood. I think he felt bad about possibly criticising his parents/family and I can understand why because they are lovely (although it's not normal that no one in his family has any disagreements).
I kept going on my own as I had A LOT of issues from my childhood/teenage years. I'm still going now. We managed to work through my feeling abandoned by him and having unrealistic expectations of a 'perfect' life.

I guess when you grow up in the middle of chaos you survive by believing that when you grow up, you'll be able to take control and be happy. I now know how unrealistic this is but still struggle. I either expect things to be horrible or perfect...

After about a year of marriage I found out that he had visited prostitutes about a month into our relationship during a lads trip abroad. He said he didn't think our relationship was serious at the time and if he knew how serious it was going to be he would not have done it. He feels embarrassed about it now and really regrets it. And so do I, as I consider paying for sex to be the same as rape since it's taking advantage of vulnerable women.

So we worked through a lot of issues and I'm very happy with our relationship. I have been out of work for 3 months now with depression and anxiety and after I managed to explain what I needed from him (support and gentle does it) he's been incredible. After some very low days (seen GP and had anti-depressants increased and anti-anxiety tablets) I've only just started seeing a light at the end of the tunnel.

I've now finally starting to feel like we have a bright and happy future in front of us.

Saturday night I found messages on his Facebook. He wrote to this girl thanking her for a great time, how he didn't regret it, etc. This happened 2 years ago, 6 months after our wedding!!!

He says it didn't mean anything, she came onto to him and they kissed. It was her leaving the country do. He says he doesn't know why he did it, he really regrets it, and it's shit timing. He says it's not my fault I didn't do anything wrong and I don't deserve it.

He had a A LOT of partners before we got together. He doesn't know how many confused. I was a virgin when we met! He used to be a party animal but I'm more of a stay at home girl (social anxiety doesn't help). Ha calmed down a lot even when we first started dating.

Our sex life had taken a nose dive since he went back to his country and I wonder if he felt the need to prove he still had it.

I'm not the jealous type and am not prepared to live my life constantly checking his pockets or smelling his shirt collars. In fact we often joked about neither of us being the overly jealous type. His friends are always telling him how lucky he is, but now I'm not surprised they do sad.

But how much is too much? I find it very difficult to understand women who stay with men who disrespect them (specially by cheating). And now I find myself in this situation... He's my dream man in every other way. There's no one else I would want to spend my life with and I feel very lucky to have him in my life as I don't think there are many men like him out there.

But is he going to keep on breaking my heart? Am I expecting to much from him? Too little?

I called his parents when I found out about this girl on Saturday as I needed advice and I knew I would just cave in and forgive him eventually if I didn't do something drastic. I needed some advice and to somehow explain to him how much he hurt me.

They told me to try to be calm (I was feeling like there wasn't any point in my life anymore) and told him how stupid he's been and told him to look after me and respect me.

He has been doing this. I had a funny turn last night (not enough food/fluids, anaemia, increased medication, too many anti-anxiety tablets and some weed) fainted and he had to call an ambulance because I didn't come round for 30-40 seconds. He's been really caring over all this and his coming with me to see my GP today (I refused to go to hospital).

Oh gawd thank you if you read all of this. It has helped me to think about it if nothing else. Although I keep on having the same questions running through my head over and over again.

I just don't know what to do... I can't live without him but it feels like he can live without me, or without considering my feelings. But should I be complaining when he's so perfect in every other way I can imagine . Am I stupid to think he's not going to do it again? I'm so confused

He is not perfect and neither are you.

Neither is his parents relationship - it is not normal to have no disagreements or not to be able to talk about someone (like in his therapy) in a realistic, holistic way.

You are far too consummed with how perfect he is and you belittle yourself a lot. You also seem to have very low self-esteem.

He is not your 'knight in shining armour' - he is a real person who has problems. You need to see who he really is, flaws and all.

I also think you should be concerned with yourself more and what you want out of life - your whole post (maybe because of your low esteem) is about your life solely with him - you exist as a person in your own right.

What I want out of life is to have a family and be happy with him. Because when things are good between us they really are good.

But I'm worried that if I forgive him again, he'll just do it again. And I can't cope knowing that's how little I mean to him. Because at all other times he makes me feel so special

gawd...

Given his, really rather prolific, cheating history I would be very surprised if your partner were able to stay monogamous. He obviously doesn't think it's a problem, and has no qualms about lying to you.

I certainly wouldn't be having unprotected sex with this man, never mind attempting to have a child with him. I would urge you to get checked out at a GU clinic, some STI's do not have symptoms and can cause infertility if untreated.

Honestly, you sound far too psychologically enmeshed with this man and his family. Calling his parents for advice on his infidelity is inappropriate as they are hardly an unbiased source of support.

I think that the best course of action for you is to cut all contact, get some good psychotherapy from a qualified professional, build a life that is fulfilling in its own right separate from him and then see how you feel about continuing your relationship.

Thanks, not really what I wanted to hear but maybe I need to hear it.

But I don't know how to cope without him...

I can't imagine living without him. But I don't want to be a door mat either.

Everything feels so fucked up right now, I can't see the wood for the trees anymore.

And this is why White Knights are a bad idea. Someone who truly helps you does not make you feel helpless without them.

It doesnt appear that you have dealt with your crappy upbringing and expect your dh to let you down as that is what you have come to expect.

It doesnt sound like you have an equal marriage. You sound extremely needy and anxious which he must find draining. You come across more as a desperate child waiting to be let down by their dad.

Giving up work due to anxiety, depression, having funny turns, calling his parents (!), needing to be kept calm, respected, is just an endless list of requirements that you constantly demand he deals with.

Your dh may well let you down in the future, he has in the past so the chances are it could happen again. You need some serious help to deal with your problems and self esteem and value yourself as a worthwhile person so that if things go wrong in the future (they will) you are able to deal with it.

This man divides women into two camps - saints and sinners. He'll happily have sex with women he thinks are beneath him, but would throw the most enormous hissy fit if his virgin bride did the same.

You do not need a knight in shining armour. You are a grown woman who should stand on her own two feet.

It is extremely unlikely this man will ever be monogamous. He only feels guilt when he is caught - remember he said after the event with his FB squeeze that he didn't regret a thing?

Of course you can live without him.

I have been feeling very needy and anxious for the last 6 months. I find it hard to keep in control because I'm always waiting for the next thing to go wrong. And at the moment it does feel like everything is going very wrong right now.

It gets to a point where you do want someone else to take over and help you because no matter how hard I try it feels like the end of the tunnel is always further away than I think.

My therapist says my problems were created over a long period of time so I should expect it to take some time to work through them.

I've been having weekly psychotherapy for the last 4 years and while it has made a massive difference in my life sometimes it does feel like I'm just standing still.

nobody should ever base their whole life on one person

this man is human, he is fallible, he sounds like a serial cheater with very little true respect for women (I would totally discount the hearts and flowers bullshit....this man does not have your best interests in mind)

he is not God

what a corner you have backed yourself into..."can't live without him ??" What did you do before you met him ? You make yourself sound like a teenager, tbh

come on love, you are a grown woman

I would recommend you get yourself checked out at the GUM clinic (that should give you a good antidote towards the "knight in shining armour" bullshit)

get rid of him

get yourself some real life help to find out why your self esteem is so low and why you cannot live without someone who has treated you so badly (and you know in your heart, he will do so again...)

now please, get on with the rest of your life

if you try for a baby with this man, you will only have yourself to blame when you find yourself trapped with a small child whilst he goes out dipping his wick here, there and everywhere

sorry, you must be devastated, but you need to find some backbone here before it is too late

I am not excusing his behaviour for a second and would echo what dietzimama says above, BUT there is a rather smothering tone to your post; the way you talk about not living without him and seeing no point to your life without him and all that. It's not healthy - especially not if you express this to him on a regular basis. And as for phoning up his parents to intervene? not good. You sound hysterical.

You can kind of see how that might drive someone into the arms of someone who is up for no strings fun.

Yes it is devastating for a marriage or relationship to end but your very life should not depend on the presence of another person. You need to develop some independence.

Thanks for reading and posting. Going to GP now, will be back later.

Boogie, as someone who also struggles with anxiety and depression, I would emphasize that OP's smothering behaviour is probably symptomatic of her psychological state. Sounds like he has created a dependent dynamic in this relationship, this makes it terribly easy for him to have his cake and eat it as she is too afraid of how she will cope without him to challenge his cheating behaviour. This way he can treat her however badly he chooses without fear of repercussions. If he had a problem with OP's behaviour he should have left before cheating on a clearly very vulerable person, there is no excuse for how he acted.

OAC- It is great that you have a psychotherapist who is supporting you, and s/he is probably right that your treatment will take a long time to be effective. I would ask this therapist to help you work out a way to disentangle yourself from this relationship so you can assess from a more clear-headed perspective.

Have you investigated support specifically for survivors of childhood trauma/abuse like NAPAC? There's a the stately homes thread on MN for children of abusive parents that might also be useful to you.

You need to get some distance, physically and mentally from this relationship, it will be upsetting, but knowing that is good. You can prepare yourself. Get support from your therapist, friends, people apart from him who you can trust.

OnceACheater - I'm not sure you're going to be able to see through the mess that you're in because it's never easy to look at your own stuff objectively. ... But perhaps because you've posted on here you are open to other people's points of view, which might help you to understand that there is more going on here than you realise.

My thoughts having read your post:

• You are idealising your husband and his family to the point that your views and expectations of them are totally unrealistic. No-one has a "perfect marriage" - that only exists in fantasy-land. Your husband, far from being a Knight in Shining Armour, seems more likely to be a repeated pattern from your own childhood ... but you're not able to see this, and so your psyche fights tooth and nail to categorise him as someone who is there to save you - which protects you from the possible reality that he is as dysfunctional as the people you experienced when you were younger.

• Your husband is a serial adulterer. You are defending and justifying his behaviour when it clearly affects you profoundly. You are on anti-depressants and anti-anxiety medication, and yet you profess that you are "very happy" with your relationship.

• Your husband's reluctance to go to counselling because he doesn't want to talk about his own family could be a sign that there is something there to look at - but you have both bought into the illusion of a perfect idyll and therefore need to protect yourselves from the possibility that, if looked at closely, it could fall apart at any moment.

This is all by the by: no-one is ready to see anything until they're ready, and no amount of reasoning by others will make them see it.

Some things to leave you with:

• No-one else can save you and make you happy - only you can do that, hard work that it is.

• The best way that anyone can face their lot in life is to take full responsibility for their own experience - and therapy can assist in this significantly. I think it's great that this is something you've committed to.

• Have you considered asking your therapist about the merits of going more often than once a week? There seems to be compelling evidence to support this as an option.

I hope that one day you have the self-knowledge and self-esteem to be able to step away from what you're going through enough to see what you have written from a new perspective - one that supports your own healing and stops giving power to people in your life who simply don't deserve it.

Best of luck.

OMFG!!!! I AM SO ANGRY WITH HIM RIGHT NOW!!!

I read your replies (which felt very hurtful at the time), called my therapist and went to see my GP. They too advised me to have some time away from him before deciding what I really want to do. My GP who's seen me struggle and overcome so many things over the years encouraged me to think about how strong and determined I'd been then which was really sweet of her

Therapist told me I was in shock and should 'feel my feelings' and work through them in time but it wasn't like I had to decide anything right now. I think I had to make a decision asap but now feel more relaxed and able to breathe and think!

I told him I wanted to some time to think about things. He didn't respect this and kept on trying to talk to me as if nothing had happened I've just told him 'I'm trying to pretend he doesn't exist and can he please fuck off and leave me alone' which he didn't appreciate much.

But how dare him complain

And WTF am I thinking? How can I possibly forgive him for this? It will always be on the back of my mind!

It was so hard for me to forgive him the first two times. How can he completely disregard that for some drunken fumbling at chuck out time?

I won't go into the relationship issues here as I think you have a lot of good advice but I will question why, when you are taking what appears to be loads of prescription medication, you are having 'weed' as well. Not a good idea.

STOP smoking weed it is not doing your mental state any good

and I just want to add that making a family will not make everything automatically better,

x posts mrscynical

Second dizietsma's post about him smothering you...and also those that tell you NOT to smoke weed when you are on a ton of medication.

A man who cannot recall how many women he has slept with in his life and readily uses prostitutes does not, as far as I'm concerned, sound like a blueprint for a knight in shining armour.

Please tell yourself that you can survive without him.

I think we created a situation where we co-dependent on each other.

When we met I was living in a new country, practically homeless, no helpful family support and very depressed, confused, unaware that a lot of things I considered normal in my life where far from it.

He was the first person in my life to make me feel loved and that I mattered as a person. I think that's where the knight in shinning armour stuff comes from. That's what he was in my life at that particular time. I think he saw me as his 'little pet project' or something.

I understand these are not the basis of a healthy relationship but I believe that we both love each other and we can be very good for each other when we're both behaving like adults and not stuck in child mode.

He was very upset (crying and sobbing on his own in the living room most of the night) when I told him to back off last night. He sometimes complains that I don't love him much as I'm not as touchy feely as he is, so I think pushing him away freaked him out.

I've also been looking into volunteer work as a way of doing something rewarding and building my confidence up.

I know I can survive with him. But I think I prefer to be with him than without.

Should I not give him a another second chance if he is prepared to engage with therapy? Don't we all have hang ups of some sort? He's been there for me while I struggled with mine. Should I not do the same for him? He knows his behaviour is not normal.

I smoke weed when it feels like the thoughts in my head are too much.

I know it's not good for me but sometimes everything just feels so overwhelming that the only other option would be a 'temporary overdose'. And I think that that would be much worse.

what do you want us to say OAC ?

yes, forgive him, he is a changed man already

and don't worry about those women in the past, and those still to come in the future

they are just his "hang-up", so you should forgive him and turn a blind eye

there

you have permission now

And thanks everyone who has replied so far. Although my decisions might not be the best way to do things, reading your views has been extremely helpful.

No AF, I don't think he's a changed man at all!
But can he not change if he commits to some sort of therapy?

"and don't worry about those women in the past, and those still to come in the future"

Of course I do! But what I've been trying to say is that apart from this I wouldn't change anything else in him or our relationship.

So if he addresses this, can't it work?

Obviously x-posted.

I don't want to try a blind eye! I think he needs to see he needs help.

He told his friends about the last time he cheated and they wondered if I was just looking for another reason to stay depressed

I asked him if he was out of his mind and whether he told them about everything he has done. Of course he didn't. So I told him, about every single time he cheated and how I worked to forgive him. I asked him if he really thought I deserve to be with someone who treats me like this. He agreed I didn't.