ExDP is at solicitors now getting a contract drawn up

[hobbgoblin]

It's to say that I accept a vehicle in lieu of maintenance for DD. The vehicle is a long term hire contract through his business for a 3 year term and will be approximately half the entitlement if you go by standard maintenance calculations.

It is very unfair in the sense that I don't get the full amount but equally I wouldn't be able to get a car to ferry all the DC around on my own - it's an MPV. So, we're doing each other a favour. My questions are; am I mad to accept these terms? Will a solicitor draw up such a contract when it appears to be hugely in his favour?

Hobb PLEASE don't do it

I know you just want him out of your hair... I really do understand that, honestly... but you will be doing yourself and the kids an enormous disservice

PLEASE go to the CAB - they will help you for free, or at least tell you where to go to get help

HOBBGOBLIN
Turn the tables and say: "I have been trying very hard to NOT drain your much loved financial resources, to the point of having myself and my family work for a pittance to help you out. Now you are so cheap you try to wrangle out of paying maintenance for your child, and this means YOU are trying to drain your childs resources. So now I put my foot down. My solicitor will be in touch with your solicitor, and we shall do this the proper legal way."

Think about yourself and your kids first. It is the very idea of you being after his money which is causing you to take this stance now. He has manipulated you well, to the point where you are willing to wave good bye to maintenance to prove him wrong. Guess what, it aint gonna prove him wrong, because there was nothing to prove in the first place.

I have a 10-year-old Zafira. Middle seat in the middle row (only has a lap-belt in my model) is a bit tight for a booster seat, but manageable. I was surprised how cheap an insurance group it came into, and I pay £120/year road tax. (I don't work for Vauxhall, honest!) Why not test-drive one with all the children you can muster?

With all 7 seats up, there is not much space for baggage behind, but for holidays we would pack sleeping bags/towels in rubbish bags and put them on the floor with the kids' feet on them. You won't often have all 7 seats occupied AND lots of baggage! You could buy a second-hand roof rack for holidays.

And check the running costs of diesel v. unleaded fuel - diesel was a lot cheaper 10-12 years ago, but I don't believe it is now.

I've been lurking on this thread but not posted before.... Just one thing I'm not clear on: is the car instead of 3 years' worth of maintenance payments, or instead of all future maintenance payments?

If the former, then I think maybe it's worth considering - sure, it'll save your XP money so he's hardly doing you a favour, but it sounds like it's what you want/need short-term, so don't turn it down just to spite him or on principle.

If, however, the 3-year car offer is in lieu of all future payments, then don't even entertain the idea (though I doubt any 'contract' to that effect would be legally enforceable anyway as it would be so clearly unfair).

FGS this is ridiculous. You cannot shaft yourself and your dd because you will be embarassed about not being able to offer lifts.

Stop being so passive and get thee to a solicitor. He is obliged to pay you maintenence, you cannot live in a bloody car, however nice it is.

This talk of a contract is bollocks. It would not be enforceable. Even if you sign it, you could turn around next week and go through the csa. It doesn't matter if the piece of paper says you waive the right to do so. The law says you can becue it is about your childs rights to proper financial support. Not yours.

I've been recommending diesels because the engines last a lot lot lot longer so that is why they work out cheaper, same as manual gear box will last longer than an automatic, if your manual gear box wears you can still use it with an automatic the whole think packs up!

I've used my mechanic for 13 years, he's independent and I know I can trust his recomendations. His opinion for something reliable, long term cheap to run & keep on the road:

So small car = micra, last for ever! Manual

Larger car = astra or zafira (same car undreneath) diesel manual

MPV = galaxy/sharran/alhambra (all the same car) diesel manual.

Hobb do not be bullied into accepting this. I would counter offer with a maintenance level above what the car will cost him but perhaps not as much as you think the CSA will award.

Please be aware that his company revenue is not the same as company profit/his income. You can also take someone throught departures via the CSA if their declared income does not correlate with their lifestyle and the onus is on them to prove how they can afford their outward lifestyle on the income details they provided. This includes them having to provide 2 years accounts and 2 years bank statements, mortgage info etc etc.

I have not read the whole thread but as a former solicitor feel that any "contract" which you and ex p enter into to set aside child maintenance rights would be invalid. The court has to act in the best interests of the children and simply cannot allow parents to decide for themselves something that might turn out to be contrary to this.
Contracts that "oust the jurisdiction of the court" are therefore generally not worth the paper they are written on. At best the money paid for the car would be credited in any future maintenance or CSA proceedings. You really do need legal advice of your own asap.

I'd have thought that the company accountant and/or auditor would have something to say about this, too. A car lease charged to a company is supposed to be for use by a company employee and the employee would be expected to pay tax on it as a benefit in kind.

I can understand the temptation to get a nice shiny new car but, honestly, this has got "Bad Idea" written all over it.

now we're talking about doing csa claim instead he is talking about closing the business and moving abroad

Yet another example of him wanting power and control.

Now will you see a Solicitor!.

well, he has me fucked solicitor or no
the best offer seems to be take the car without contract and let him worry about it if/when i decide the vehicle is less important than the other 300 which he would probably avoid paying anyway

but i will go get a half hour consult after half term

he reckons he loves me ha ha haaaaa hahaaa

Do not accept any such offer and get proper legal advice for your own self asap.

Don't think he ever loved you tbh; such men are incapable of loving anyone but their own selves.

On a much wider level what was your Dad like, was he perhaps also emotionally unavailable or absent when you were a child?.
What did you learn from your own parents about relationships?.

What an arse he is hobb.

Do you really believe he'd go through all the expense and uncertainty of moving abroad, closing a successful business that pays out enough for his comfortable lifestyle, just to avoid paying out a relatively small amount of maintenance (15% of income I understand)? Overwhelming chances are he's just saying it to put the wind up you. He'll say anything at this point. Cornered rats etc.

So if you agree to take the car,with or without a contract, what is to stop him deciding he can no longer afford to pay it and stopping the payments? The car will just get taken back and then you will be totally screwed. As someone else said, if it is a lease car, it does not and will never belong to you anyway. The very best that can be said is that you will have the car for three years and then what?

Sorry, but I think you sound as though you have decided to be a victim here. So many people have given you fantastic advice about this yet you seem to be ignoring them.

Stop talking to him and listening to this crap and get yourself to a solicitor. Whatever he offers you is going to be in his best interest, not yours or his child's.

Only communicate with this bullying twit via a solicitor.

Anything he offers is for his benefit, not yours as Fab says.

Oh, and if your name is on the leasing agreement and he stops paying it is YOU whom the leasing company will come after for the rest of the cash.

Quintessentially makes a very good point about the psychology which you must avoid (proving that you are better than money-grubbing ex by not going after him for money). His behaviour has probably given you the feeling that wanting money is dishonourable, whereas the dishonour is just in why one wants it, what one wants it for, and how much one is prepared to screw something for some money one isn't really entitled to (see his threat to shut down in the UK and f--- off abroad. Really classy, that). Meanwhile, demanding, and fighting for, a fair share of money you are entitled to is honourable.

Just change the way you look at things, and you will feel less afraid. If you can feel a bit angry, do! That will really help you feel better!

Hobgoblin
You need to decide what you want for you and your dcs.
Go to a solicitor
Then tell him.
No negotiation
Let the sols deal with it.
Disengage and try and find your own opinions agains again.

The whole thing stinks, Hobgoblin. If he doesn't keep up the payments on your car (or cancels the lease) the fact that you're the registered driver won't stop the hire company repossessing it. They won't give a shit that he's used it as collateral against child support. Your contract has no power against the lease agreement ... but it may compromise you with the CSA, I don't know about this.

In short, the agreement leaves you exposed on all fronts. It also makes you a pawn in his game, for as long as you want the car.

If a bigger car means so much to you, why not insist he buys you one? It doesn't have to be brand new: just in good condition, under guarantee, fully insured and with YOUR name on the log book.

As a fall-back idea:-
If he's determined to do everything through the company (presumably to fiddle taxes), then tell him to make you an employee on, say, a five-year unbreakable contract. Make your position in the company "driver". Make the salary tiny, but the car - specified, and with all the perks like insurance & services written in - part of the contract. Then at least you'll have your car until he goes bust (and can sue the company if he does).

I also think you MUST take this proposal to the CAB, if you won't see a solicitor. Of course, you desperately need a solicitor and I'm very sad that you're letting him bully you to the extent that you won't.

I regret my post above. Listen to the others, not me. I let my exes stitch me up, I'm not a reliable source on this!

ItsGraceAgain, I just want to say that your second post above was very graceful. So few people are able to go back on what they have said, let alone so quickly or with dignity. I was flamed last week for my comments on Freecyle (probably rightly as regards some of the comments, though I hope not all...) but I haven't yet thought of a way to say so!

On the other hand, it's sad to hear anyone has been "stitched up".

Hopefully, all will be well with Hobbgoblin. Hobbgoblin, any news?

Don't know if i'm being thick here or have misunderstood - if you turn down his agreement and go for the amount your are entitled to from him you can afford to/buy your own car?

sorry, should read lease/buy your own car

Please, please don't do this, Hob (I know I'm adding to the chorus a bit late, but still!)

SIL's exH did this to her and utterly stiffed her six months down the line when he stopped making payments and the car was repossessed. It was through his work/own company too.

She too didn't want to upset the bullying shite and he ended up jacking in his job so he didn't have to pay maintenance to his 3 kids. Thankfully the CSA took a very dim view of his behaviour and came down on him like a ton of bricks over his new cash in hand work (not sure how they found out about it, but they did!), although she has really struggled and he's still a bullying, unreliable shite (and his kids are coming to hate him for it, despite SIL's efforts to the contrary - she's far too nice!).

He's not going to change, you have to think of your own interests rather than about upsetting him, because he's likely to mess you about no matter what.