What do you think of this?

[IlFamiglia]

Feel really awkward posting a message about this - but feel I need to have some advice from you sensible people...

Been married a long time, over 10 years and have 3 v small children...one 4 months (bless!)

Anyway, DH is a very good, loving, Dad to our DCs. I am a SAHM having given up a career to have DCs...he is happy about that. He doesn't get to see them much in the week, as leaves for work at 7.40 am and gets home about 6.50 pm...They go off to bed shortly after that.

He also is away quite a bit for work and has often travelled on Sundays in the last few months,...and has evenings out (throughout December he was out at least twice a week)entertaining clients...

He has now taken up cycling at weekends, usually a Saturday, and is gone about 2.5 hours...okay...

This is okay...but I am finding him v difficult to get along with and controlling. It seems if I agree with him, and do what he approves of all runs swimmingly, but when I query or 'nag'(!) he gets aggressive-raises his voice which makes my heart leap into my mouth (literally), and says quite nasty things about me ('prick', 'twat', 'miserable cow').

This man is in his mid 40's, in a professional job, who is nicey nicey to everyone outside and to the children...

He is planning to go to Scotland on a stag weekend this year -okay he does not need permission but he never even discussed, just agreed...and will need to use some annual leave for it.

He also booked the whole of his holidays for the year without consultation with me, and when I pointed out that it wasn't really fair to do so without asking my opinion he got v shirty and aggressive again...

I used to earn a really decent salary in my career, and handled my money - I did have an overdraft which I made use of! But he tries to convince me I am useless with money and controls all of it...he has his own money and I have a joint account with him, into which a small amount goes in every month, which I end up buying groceries with and fuel for the car. I don't like to ask him for money - its awkward...

I am totally frustrated, exasperated and don't know what to do....sticks and stones and all that...but he isn't kind to me. I am aggrieved that this has been going on all the while - I've just had a baby and need some reassurance from him, but it is lacking. He seems to have unrealistic expectations of what 'other women' are like, yet when I try to counter by saying that maybe their husbands are 'kind, thoughtful' 'around a bit more' he says I am being unrealistic!

Sorry guys but he's just called again...and he tried to talk about what's wrong...I froze and babbled on about him undermining/abusing and controlling me and that I was seriously at the end of my tether...He asked what I meant and I said the first things that came into my head; the abusive aggression - he actually said that I was aggressive too-and that I'd physically assaulted him! Last night I did push him when he was sitting on the sofa gloating and sneering at me (h's over 6 ft I'm 5'4!!!);how he books holidays without discussing - a lengthy lecture ensued about how he is the money earner and I don't surely expect him to ask me!!!How he doesn't care about my opinions one jot...all falling on the deafest of deaf ears...
He then started trying to turn the tables saying that I'd been aggressive in my way of speaking to him, and when I denied it - said that it was all down to interpretation wasn't it-he wasn't actually aggressive it was in my mind effectively...and then said that he knew what my problem was but I refused to get help (meaning that I was mentally ill)...
I find disciussions with him useless and even more damaging tbh. He will not and cannot take any blame for what's happening-someone of less resolve would probably really start to believe they were to blame

And that's what he's banking on, isn't it IlFamiglia? Good for you; there's still a proud woman in there somewhere!

Just a small thought: Is there enough in the bank to buy a small house for you & DCs - and still leave sufficient funds for him to get a flat?

Sorry guys but he's just called again...and he tried to talk about what's wrong...I froze and babbled on about him undermining/abusing and controlling me and that I was seriously at the end of my tether...He asked what I meant and I said the first things that came into my head; the abusive aggression - he actually said that I was aggressive too-and that I'd physically assaulted him! Last night I did push him when he was sitting on the sofa gloating and sneering at me (h's over 6 ft I'm 5'4!!!);how he books holidays without discussing - a lengthy lecture ensued about how he is the money earner and I don't surely expect him to ask me!!!How he doesn't care about my opinions one jot...all falling on the deafest of deaf ears...
He then started trying to turn the tables saying that I'd been aggressive in my way of speaking to him, and when I denied it - said that it was all down to interpretation wasn't it-he wasn't actually aggressive it was in my mind effectively...and then said that he knew what my problem was but I refused to get help (meaning that I was mentally ill)...
I find disciussions with him useless and even more damaging tbh. He will not and cannot take any blame for what's happening-someone of less resolve would probably really start to believe they were to blame

lol, are you on your phone?

Yes..there should be enough Grace...but he will be a 50/50 man I'm sure...

Talking isn't going to lead anywhere in this situation. The amount of times my exH told me I was abusing him! It's not a good use of your energies right now. Just get out. Don't worry too much about the money stuff right now. If it's in your name, he can't make it all disappear, so you'll have time to deal with it all later.

Nickname thanks...but I can't just 'get out'. I have a 4 month old and two toddlers... it ain't so easy...

Grace .. yes, was : he is making me mad!!!!
Am torn between thinking, oh maybe it'll get better and then remembering all the 'incidents' - the snide comments, the aggressive attitude, the dominance, the critical questions, the underlying dissatisfaction on both his and my parts...why oh why...

Last row was curiously about us booking a holiday and his then insistence that the hols had to be predominantly for the kids to enjoy...so had to be geared towrds them.

Now I am of the thinking that holidays are for us all - and ventured as much and actually got asked who the hell I thought I was - me not even being a money earner!!! Its the same with Christmas - its all about the children (yes I love it with the children and they make it), but surely loving couples want time/space together too...it ain't right!!! Well they do if they actually love each other I suppose, but probably want the kids there all the time if they cannot stand the sight of each other!

He was a grumpy git when DC3 was born and after 45 mins of pushing (feeling I couldn't go on and with no pain relief)I told him to shut up! He was mortified and very cross that I had been so rude...! He even mentioned it to the MW who laughed and said it was the least I could do!!! You should see/hear what some do!!!

I would leave and see how he reacts to that, what you are going through is unaceptable.

He sound very selfish. I wouldn't put up with that.

Have not read allthe thread Ilfam but I get the gist of it. There are other women posting on here with similar problems and like you they know how awful their lives are but don't seem to be able to make a move. It is difficult I know (i did it over 40 years ago with 3 under 5s - I just couldn't bear the thought of them living like that - it wa hard at first but I never looked back and it got better and better)

I think one of the problems is women like you having to face up to the fact that you are living in an abusive relationship. there is physical abuse (no matter how iunfrequent) and most certainly emotional abuse.

Your bloke sound like he is living in the dark ages - talking of the fact that he earns the money - what the hell would be do if you weren't caring for the children and keeping the home going etc - I honestly thought this kind of thinking went out in the 70s. He does sound very controlling and tries to put you down at every verse end. He may even be threatened by you - I know it doesn't sound likely - but only losers try to score points you know.

I wouldn't rule out that there is another woman around somewhere. The thing is he is not accountable or even answerable to you in any way and he knows there are no consequence for his actions so he is able to rule the roost.

You need to try to get hold of some emotional strength from within you and be assertive with him. It's no good blurting stuff out in a phone call - you need to be calm and assertive. He is clearly shocked when you do have a go at him as he phoned you back and started a discussion about it. Even if you don't feel assertive, you must try to ACT the part if your see what I mean.

Remember A can only behave like he does because B lets him.

If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always got............so make some changes in your behaviour instead of trying to change his. Watch his reaction when you change your behaviour.

And you are getting excellent advice from women who have been through this and got out the other end. Yes her is disgusting to be behaving like this with 3 young children and one so very young. YOU aren't made - he is just trying to undermine you to excuse his own behaviour.

sorry I've rambled on enough.

sorry meant of course "you aren't mad not made

He sounds very similar to my H, who I recently seperated from.

I also feel very loyal towards him and spend my life saying to friends "He is a really nice guy just not with me". They all look at me like I am mental (Which sometimes I feel I am!)

I got to the point where I tried and tried to talk to him, but it always ended up in a shouting match (Well mainly him shouting at me) calling me every name he could think of, and trying to turn it all around to make it out to be my fault.

The only thing I would say is that you have a young baby and life is very stressful when little ones are about. You have also got a lot on your plate with 2 other toddlers, so maybe you are both on a very short fuse and aren't being very kind to each other.

Is there any chance you could go to relate, I have found it so great as I can say what I need to say without either being shouted down, or my H storming off, and we are starting to get somewhere - I am starting to understand his frustrations (me not working as when we met, like you, I was a career girl and now I'm a SAHM, which I love, but he hates and resents me for it!), and i have a platform to tell him that I think it's over, but we are trying to communicate for the sake of our DS.

Could you maybe go away for the weekend to take some time to relax and reflect ? I know this isn't easy with little one's but it may make him sit up and notice a bit.

He is calling you from work to ask you what is wrong, I know this leads to another row, but if your both still rowing there must be something there, I am well past the rowing phase with my H, as I have given up trying to talk (nag !) him, and we just talk about our DS, and my life even after 4 weeks is starting to be so much more relaxed.

Good luck

"I can't just 'get out'. I have a 4 month old and two toddlers... it ain't so easy..."

Who said it was easy? But it's doable.

Thank you Nana and sad...You've all made alot of sense, and Nana there is a resonance there...I do go about it frantically almost because he is very clever at pushing me so far that I lose it !

He may feel threatened but I doubt it...I am better qualified than him, and was destined for a good career before I had DCs...now it doesn't need to end I know, but my and our choice was for me to opt out of 'working' to bring them up. I think he likes the 'smugness' of 'my wife doesn't need to work', but probably thinks all SAHMs are lazy cows...in fact, when I asked about discussing booking holidays he just said, 'why, so you didn't miss a coffee morning'The woman thing....do you really think it sounds suspicious...

Yes nickname it is doable - but it is final - he is not someone who would take it lightly and I have to confron that.

He won't take you leaving at all lightly because he will then lose his control over you. As I wrote before controlling men do not let go of their victims easily. You and your children are his victims.

Abuse is all about power and control; he wants both over you all completely. He is truly a tyrant within this fractured home of yours.

This situation is untenable as it stands. He will destroy you all if you remain with him.

And do read Lundy Bancroft's book as well as calling WA and the CAB.

Thanks Attila and everyone...

Just joining thread, and see you have already had a lot of good advice.

My main piece of advice for you now would be to stop discussing your relationship problems with him. He will not change, but sensing you are questioning him as a husband may make him feel his control is slipping, which would lead to him upping his efforts to control and belittle you. I don't want to scare you but as others have pointed out this is a risky time for women waking up to the situation of being in a an abusive relationship and thinking of leaving.

Would it be an option to move when he is away working or for a weekend? Do you have friends and family who could help you move into a new rented house?

I left a bad relationship last year and took as much time as it needed to find a new house, look at what benefis I was entitled to, spoke and met with women's aid, opened up to a small handful of friends, etc. I then moved on a school day and left a note with no address. It is possible and when you do it, it will feel like a huge weight has been lifted.

Think about life with just you and your dcs in a new house..... nice thought isn't it.

things are not ideal, to be sure

Is there a halfway house between leaving him and just putting up with things? I am curious, you married him, so has he always been such a shit.

Put it another way, is there any hope of saving this? could you love him again, or all dead?

do you have the courage to say "this behaviour is not acceptable, and if you do not change, I will seek a divorce?"

then you resolve to yourself to ice him out, civilly, and have him experience what it could be like without you.

In parallel, he may well be having an affair and his guilt is driving this nasty behaviour.

whatever you do, be strong, dont take any shit, and start to let him see that you WILL leave if things dont improve.

good luck

if you think you can or want to save it you should try relate - his shit wont stick there and he will sound a twat in front of someone else who will pull him on his shit

now the trick with communication IME is to be all DR phil about it and say " i feel...."

they cannot take away the fact that you feel a certain way

this is quite diferent from arguing that something didn't happen as one person said, or twisting things to a version that suits then calling you mad, paranoid or deluded ( been there)

so if dh and i disagree on something - lets make it something that he could deny - like tone of voice
i say " i felt that your tone of voice was threatening"
"well it wasn't"
"but i felt that it was
"well it bloody wasn't"
"well that is the way that made me feel and that doesn't change"

now dh is wise to this he uses it back and we are in a place where we both apologise for making the other feel a negative emotion.

what i am trying to say is that in some onstances there might be a diference between intention and perception

so his intention may not have been threatening

but my perception was different.

so his intention wasn't to be threatening - therefore he doesn't see why he should apologise

but my perception is that is was and i feel that he should

stalemate

but he can apologise for making me feel threatened even if his intention wasn't to be threatening

god i hope that makes sense!!

Thanks for your reply, IlFamiglia. You say he would be a 50/50 man ... What would you be? A 50/50; a 70/30 woman? If the DCs lived mostly with you, would that entitle you to the greater share?

Just food for thought ...

I thought relate wouldn't offer counselling to couples where there has been abuse??

IlFamiglia
You sound like me 4 years ago.
You are stuck but with the dawning realisation of the abuse you are suffering daily you will find the strength to plan to leave.
Your dcs are aware I'm sure of something, so don't think they are immune.

Please don't remove half your money into another bak account. You will more than likely be entiteld to 70%.
Womens Aid will be a great thing to start with and they could advise on solicitors etc.

Good luck

Thanks...just finished putting DCs to bed and thought I'd check in - he's out tonight - I know its genuine cos I know someone else going ...
Anyway, he rang twice again and both times was very 'I think we both say things we shouldn't in the heat of an argument'...and yes we did have the discussion about perception etc. and I custardo said that I had felt the aggression and threat underlying in his tone...which oooh he didn't realise it had come across that way...!!!

Having said that I did sort of attempt this last night when he exhibited this trait and I said I felt he should think about how he was speaking to me as I felt it was sarcastic and demeaning and that's when he called me a pr*ck...!

My ideal would be that we should attend Relate sessions as a last ditch attempt...I don't really want to split but if I cannot make him see how destructive his behaviour is then I will leave him. I want someone objective to basically make him see how out of order he is...and also I am happy to examine my own behaviour. I hadn't realised that as the person responsible for the children I may be entitled to more of the 'funds'...This may be the single motivating factor for his lordship to sit up and listen

Whatever way, thank you all for helping me to realise that this can be overcome and I can and will sort it out! xx