Haven't spoken to my Dad in a long time and my Mum wants me to 'make up'

[Dominique07]

Hi
Quite complicated background in a nutshell:
I am the mother of a toddler, in my 20s, living with my DP
Mum & Dad used to fight quite badly and I have posted on the 'but we used to take you to stately homes thread' quite relate to that title.
Have come to the conclusion that Dad was a very controlling personality, we all had to walk on egg shells, you've heard it all before... after finishing university I got really sick of even staying with my parents for a few weeks because of the scary fights and I moved out to my DP's flat, although my parents strongly disapproved.
When I became pg my parents both said I was no longer family. My Mum actually started seeing me again as soon as DS was born though...
So now I am living with DP and only see my Mum and Sister.
But every now and again Mum says I need to 'make up' with my Dad.
Now, the only reason I would do this is so I could phone and visit my Mum who lives a long train journey away and who I now only visit... I'm not really interested in being under my Dad's thumb anymore now that I'm free.
What should I do, my Mum thinks I should 'write a handwritten letter' telling my Dad how lacking my life is without him and how I really need to make up with him!!!
I feel extremely guilty as my Mum thinks I have made our family disfunctional and I think she is fairly old and seems frail when I see her, and I feel sorry that I've make her so sad.

WWYD? Would you do what it takes to make your 'family' whole and happy and just try to keep a distance between them and you for most of the time?
Thats what I think I should do but I feel sick at the thought of writing a letter, and travelling to see them.

I'm in a simialr position because I don't have contact with my Mum. I have no father but I do have a sister much younger than me who is basically ignoring me (for example, ignoring my birthday) to make the point that I should make up with my mother.

It's slightly different from your situation but essentially, you should not be guilted into doing something you do not wish to do.

If you can have some sort of limited contact with your father for the sake of your mother, and you can put this into some kind of manageble box then I would say this is the way forward. Only you can decide whether that's possible and if you decide it isn't then be prepared to be cast as the villain but remember your reasons and stay true to yourself.

You have your own family and children to consider. Thay need you to stay emotionally stable.

Don't do anything you don't want to do. Do not let other people emotionally blackmail you into doing something that goes against what you feel is right for you. Most of all, don't write a letter that is full of lies that your Mum has dictated for you just to please her.

Do what is right for you and what will make you happy. From what you have written your Dad cut you off so, from my point of view, any conciliatory moves should be made by him - and even then you don't have to respond to them if you don't want to.

Hi, Dominique. Well done for stating your case to your parents.

Mine were quite a bit like yours. Dad was violent, hated everybody, and made us all feel like shit including my mum. Now I am twice your age, I hold my mother responsible, also, for the problems that my sibs & I grew up with. But this is an issue for you later, maybe when your children are older ...

She wants you all to "make friends" because this will repair her fantasy of a happy, united family. She doesn't see it, of course, but she's asking you to deny the truth of your life - so that she can carry on hiding her own pain from herself. Obviously, that's not the greatest idea.

But if you, like me, see no merit in making your mother's life worse than its - what to do? You can't force her to see things the way they were, that would be a kind of mental torture for her. People reconcile with the truth at their own pace (or not at all); I've reached a half-understanding with my mum, who is 80 now. It cost her immense pain to get even half-way; I'm grateful for her effort but I've always known there was little chance of reaching full understanding with her. It would be intolerable for her, quite literally.

When I was your age, I called my dad into the dining room and gave him a very short speech about how I despised his violence, lack of support and insulting behaviour towards me and the rest of my family. I asked my mother to attend - she listened, but she hid in the kitchen because she was so afraid of his reaction! Dad was OK with it, though. I was really quite moderate - just factual. I said I spoke only for myself, not for the others, and that I wanted nothing to do with him for a minimum of two years, while I began to free myself of his influence. I asked him to respect my separation. He said yes.

For the next two years, I would phone home; if he picked up, I just said "hello, it's Grace, let me speak to mum/brother/sister". He did, like a lamb. When I visited, I asked for dad to be absent. He was.

Domineering fathers rule their households, it's difficult for any member of their "retinue" to challenge their authority. Their wives are their slaves. But you can challenge. Just don't ask his wife to support you; she has more or less lost her own identity - it's cruel to her, to ask for rebellion. Challenge him, as clearly and directly as you can (in person, if you can arrange it). Set out your terms. Don't set terms for his wife, it's hard enough for her already.

I hope it works as well, for you, as it did for me! Good luck

Sorry, I got a little too wrapped in my own story there. My advice - if you feel my experience qualifies me to give advice - is: Write the letter, but write two letters: one to your father and one to your mum. Send a copy of both letters to each parent, in individual envelopes.

But I feel it's better, if you can, to speak to your dad in person (with your mum hiding in the kitchen )

You cannot make an inherently dysfunctional family unit like the one you came from at all happy.

You owe these toxic parents of yours nothing; your Mum, for her own reasons, has chosen to stay with this man. You do not have to dance to either of their tune's any more.

Your Mum is also trying on the guilt trip with you as well now; she probably wants you to make up with your Dad to make "her life easier". Well sorry but no. Your father would never make any meaningful apology to you because he at heart thinks he has done nothing wrong. Toxic parents are also apt to blame others for their ills and never take any responsibility for their actions.

Do not be guilted into writing a letter because your Mum wants you to. It won't do your emotional state any good either if you did that.

Concentrate your energies instead on your own family unit; they deserve and need you far more than your toxic parents do (your parents only want to use you to their own ends).

You may also want to read the following:-
"If you had controlling parents" written by Dr Dan Neuharth
"When you and your mother cannot be friends" by Rebecca Secunda.

Hang on! Am I reading this properly? Your parents disowned you because as an adult you made a decision which went against their wishes. Your mum gets back in contact because you have a baby and wants you to make up with your father, the one who disowned you?

It's your life Dominique and your decision. Don't be guilted into writing the letter though. If you do write it, do it because it's what you want to do.

If it were me and my parents I would have told them where to go but that's just me.

Sounds very much like the situation my DH is in. His grandparents use any method of guilt possible to try and get him to make up with his parents regardless of what they have done to him. Latest one being "it wouldn't be nice to see you cut out of an inheritance".

I think you'll become angry and frustrated if you let yourself be manipulated like this.

If anyone should be writing a letter begging forgiveness it is your Dad.

But your mum won't tackle him, she is too scared.

She is trying to get you to make up as this is the easy option for her and, yes, then she can feel the family is all happy again.

You should not feel you have to write a letter to your Dad stating untrue sentiments.

Tell your mum, "no, you may have forgotten what he was like to me, I have not".

Totally agree with mampam and miggsie. He disowned you - your mum reconciled, but he hasn't, so the ball is still in his court, not yours - where IMO it should stay as long as you feel like. You owe him not a single thing. Why the hell should you write a letter? Your mum is doing that classic thing of "Oh it would be lovely if everyone got on so I'll try to force them to via the path of least resistance" - ie she won't confront your dad so she's trying it on with you. Yes she's sad, but it is not your fault or responsibility at all. She married a domineering man and let him make his DC miserable and still isn't standing up to him - her lookout.

I speak as someone who stopped seeing my dad altogether in my early 20s and am now 40 with no regrets. You have to find your own way through this but please don't let guilt be a factor.

Hi sorry my computer completely gave up on me - thanks for all the replies. I just remembered, the reason my Mum gave for all this was that my Dad wanted to send money to "help" me out and both Mum and my Sister said I'd rather see him than his money. They're half right... I do NOT want his money.

KoalaSar: Sorry to hear about your situation, although I'm sure you have your own life apart from your Mum and your Sister. As you mentioned; "some sort of limited contact with your father for the sake of your mother" (and my sister) is what I'm aiming for, but its not going to be pleasant.

CelticStarlight: Thanks, I know I shouldn't go against what I feel is right for me but I have to factor in that my Sister still lives at home out of term time and she gets all the headache from my Mum. And also, my DS will get to spend time with his granddad if I go for visits to their house.

ItsGraceAgain: It is a similar situation then, but I must be more cowardly because I have been for visits home when he is not there but I can't bear the thought that he could come home. Its mostly awkwardness now, not having seen each other or talked. We sort of had the same talk - with him saying well you off out of my house then, so I did, but a couple of months later when I'd sorted my situation out. For which reason, as I didn't leave immediately, he doesn't "believe" that it was the home situation that I was getting away from.

AttilaTheMeerkat: Thanks for the book titles. I will get them and read them. I wish I could get my Mum to read them too...

Mampam: When I used to ask my Mum to divorce from Dad, she would use the same line. I don't want to lose out on all the money that is mine!

Miggsie: Yes you're right. I just don't want to hurt my Mum by 'raking up the past' but it may come to it now.

MarineIguana: Do you see the rest of your family?
I couldn't live with falling out with my Sister, even though I know she would support me no matter what, my parents still control her to some extent, for example she is not allowed to visit me this year, she had plans to get an internship here and stay with my and my family, rent free obviously. Apparently they think I might take her out to a bar or a club. (she is 20.)

Just wanted to say that's a VERY prescriptive letter. Also in my family it's my grandad that is controlling - and I had to have my own (much smaller) battle with him as I grew up. I think that was only possible because my own mother had stood her ground with him as much as she possibly could.

You want your child to see their grandparents - great (and I mean that, I still want a relationship with mine). But bear in mind how controlled you allow yourself to be by them will impact on your DS and how much he feels able to feel ok.

I hope that makes some sense

Well I hope NOT to be controlled by them, but to be able to go and visit with DS and go home again. They have just recently started thinking about trying to "help" and offered us the chance to rent a property from them!
I know a trap when I see one...

Oh and I offered to send an email to say I'm coming to visit with DS, and my Mum said,
"do you have to bring DS with you? " and "No, it would need to be a handwritten letter to your Dad explaining how you miss him." You know best Mum...

Bear in mind you Mum can be wrong!! If you feel like sending your dad an email, or a typed note or a carrier pigeon - go ahead and do it. She may feel like her husband's "interpreter" (well, she's got to feel useful somehow) but you're a grown-up and so's your dad.

Glad you're not taking the flat!

How about sending your mum a copy of Lundy Bancroft's "Why Does He Do That?" [evil grin]
She could probably really do with this one: "Co-Dependent No More", by Melody Beattie
But would probably prefer the title of "Women Who Love Too Much" - Robin Norwood.

Or you could just leave her to get on with making her mistakes, while you attempt direct & honest communication with your Dad.
Wishing you luck!

I am glad you are not taking the flat either!.

I would completely walk away from your toxic dad and your subserviant to him mother. You do not deserve such harsh treatment from them in your lives.

If they can do this to you they are more than capable of loading their crap onto your DS as well. You owe these people nothing. Her reply to you in your last posting tells me as much. "Do you have to bring your DS with you?", I mean what sort of question is that?. And why can't he come along, after all he is her grandchild. She just wants you to go alone so you can apologise to your Dad and she can go la-la-la again in her own la-la land of denial.

You need to read the books recommended to you, your Mother would not want to know anyway.

Do not attempt any communication with your Dad because it will all go spectacularly wrong and you will end up feeling worse not just to say blamed for when it all goes wrong again.

Your sister is in a difficult position but she will have to live her own life in the way she chooses. Hopefully she will one day come to the same realisations that you have.

I understand the reasons & benefits of no-contact with horrid parents. My own feelings are: I claim my right to express my own thoughts; I respect other people's right to disagree with them (even if they are related to me, and insane!) It's important, to me, to express myself - particularly with those who didn't allow it in my youth.

I'm not saying one approach is more 'right' then the other. Just that, sometimes, people here are VERY strongly advised to cut contact. I wanted to state one of the alternative points of view.

Can't add much more to the great advice given,

but also if you feel sick at the thought of it, your not ready to do it,
I haven't spoke to my father in 3 years feel sick to the stomach at the thought of seeing him again, simply because if I told him how I feel I know I wouldn't get the response that I need/want back

Although I have the opposite problem I'm not allowed to go and visit unless I bring my children too

Dominique to answer your question - I do still see my mum and siblings, luckily not too often as they don't live near - but I struggle really. One sibling is fine, we're not really close but it's not an issue. The other and my mum both think I like them and want to see them whereas the truth is I find them horrendously hard work and there are still a lot of family issues that I can't handle well.

But I think I am quite good at not letting my mum control me these days. I just tell her straight "no I'm not doing that" or "that's none of your business". Try it if you can!

Hi Domenique, on the website "daughters of narcissistic mothers" it says:
--------
"I remember my brother and I going to my father to protest at some specific of our mother's treatment of us. I so clearly remember every word of his reply:

He said, "Don't make me unhappy with the wife I've chosen".
-----
This is basically what your mother is trying to do...she wants you to make HER feel better about her marriage.

You need to keep your distance form these damaging people.

I hate this situation. I suppose all families are hard work, but there ought to be some way of keeping contact peacefully. Since my Mum basically disapproves of my DP she is not 100% on good terms with him either so I'm running out of ways to meet up.
She is the one trying to patch things up, so she is the one who is probably going to end up with her feelings hurt. Personally I don't think I can deal with all this, but then, if you've not got family what have you got?
I've got my DP and my DS and my sister but I need a relationship with my Mum. Its like its my choice, but its not much of a choice, if I say I'm not going to visit I will probably end up explaining everything we've discussed on this thread and cause a lot of hurt. I think my Mum buries the reality and tries to forget about it so if I say I'm not going to write a letter/email and come and visit she will probably be shocked. Also I know she has no friends to talk about it all to.

Its Grace again, you seem to have this all quite clear in your head, as perhaps like me, you've spent a lot of time analysing 'what went wrong'.

So its really hard to know what is the way forward even as a parent. Its really worrying to think that my childhood will make me into a similar manipulative/confused and needy parent!

I always tell people my parents were good parents, they chose a nice area to live, a nice school for me to go to, helped me with my school work...

I've been reading Character is the key, which I thought might give me some clues as to what a good parent does. But I guess a lot of this problem is that parents like this do not teach their children independence. So maybe, that is something for me to remember as a parent that I'm bringing up DS to be independent.

There is a 3 for £20 deal on these type of books on Amazon.
They must be popular... Thats a bit sad that so many people need these books.

"if you've not got family what have you got?"

If you have it in your heart that you have to have some connection with your family just because they are family, then you lay yourself open to suffering when they are quite simply crap. So what if your mum's shocked? She deserves to be - she's in the wrong and behaving unreasonably. She's relying on the fact that you don't want to upset her to get you to do what she wants.

I do sometimes feel sad that I don't have the relationships with my family some people have - I would love a lovely, close, caring mum who I could really trust and who would be around to babysit and all that, for example. But I haven't got that, just as some people don't have a job they love, or a relationship when they would like one. But I look at my life and I'm lucky to have lots of things in other areas - my own family, my friends, my home, my job, and hobbies that make me happy. Family is not everything and it is not essential.

Hi,

This is interesting as I've had a similar thing on my mind of late. I'm also a mum in her mid - 20s and when I was 19 became pregnant. I would say the whole pregnancy was pretty much ignored by my father, who when I called him to tell him told me he had to go and 'feed the cat'. Yes, unbelievable, but I might add quite funny when you consider this was a grown man who had all ready made his daughter feel like shit for many years, after putting the hurt from his broken marriage onto his ten - year - old little girl who stayed with him. As you've probably guessed, there was alot of history before the pregnancy, but I think in my mind I thought he might finally offer some support as this time of real need.

My Mum didn't disown me, but she told me almost every week that she thought I should have aborted the baby and told everyone who would listen that I had made the wrong decision and needed saving. Now I'm a Mum, I can understand why she felt how she did but not how she acted. I was in a bad relationship and she wanted to save me from that; little did she know I'd grow to prove them all wrong (including said partner) and be a fantastic, proud and loving mother. My son has been everything my own family were not and I'm trying hard to do the same for him.

It's now 5 years on and my father and I don't speak - last time was just over a year ago on my birthday because I had a weak moment and challenged him on why he never sent a birthday card. The call ended with him hanging up on me.

The problem now is my sister, who constantly tells me I should cut him some slack and appreciate that it's 'just the way he is' i 'can't expect anything more from him' etc. Also my brother has not spoken to him for about three years as they had a falling out over finances, but were also constantly fighting when he was a teenager. He has convinced himself that we were actually fathered by someone else and that is why my Dad worships my sister and won't give us a look - in.

Because of my siblings constantly talking about him, he is on my mind more than ever even though I went through counselling to forget his and my Mum's needs and concentrate on my own.

All I can say is that I have now learnt that you can ONLY be guided by your own feelings and gut instinct and you MUST consider whether this father is someone you would want in your child's life as in the end, making them happy is the most important thing. If you need to get some support in coming to the point where you can confront him / your feelings then do, it really helped me and you have to feel you can stand up for what you believe in. It's what they should have taught you, but as they didn't you have to find a way to learn.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

K x

Oh also 'Women Who Love Too Much' was read by me after splitting up with my abusive partner and every word of it was the truth, though v painful to read at the time. It's an excellent choice.