Am I abusing H?

[HesterPrynne]

Just followed a link from another thread to a site on the 'cycle of abuse'. And I feel as if the breath's been knocked out of me.

Our relationship, almost 20 yrs now, is pretty fucked up, but reading that I fear it's worse than I thought, and that I'm actually abusing him. Or is it the other way round. I just don't know.

There's no violence, but lots of shouting. No name calling as such, but I do scream and shout about how little he does around the house, when's he going to get a job - been out of works since Sept - when's he going to deal with his 'depression'. And he shouts back that I don't understand, he's anxious, he's trying. He's doing more than he was, etc.

But what really hit me on the abuse site, was how withdrawing emotional/physical support is construed as abuse. That and money. We don't hug, kiss, or hold hands nothing - why should he expect sex? He frequently says thinks would be so much better if I were more 'emotionally' supportive. He would do the hugging etc and I'm the one who pulls away or freezes. And I know it's because I don't think he 'deserves' it, is that what they mean by withholding?

And the money stuff. He's not earning, screwed up benefits by 'forgetting' to send in the necessary paperwork, will only look for jobs he thinks 'worthy' of him and still thinks he deserves his 'treats' like a couple of beers a night, his proper coffee etc. So now I give him allowance, ie I leave money in one account he can get to, but have another which only I can access, so if 'his' runs out he has to ask for more. Not because I don't want him to have those things, but because we barely limp from month to month and without my credit card, he has no creditworthiness, we'd be stuffed. Is that 'abusive'?

And all of this follows the cycle, blow-up, honeymoon, calm, tension, blow-up.

Some of you may remember previous posts about an almost-OM, a situation I'm not proud of, but don't have the strength to bring to an end because of all of the above. He's the only bit of my life I take any pleasure atm, and bizarrely probably helping stay with H, because he makes life bearable.

So am I abusing H? Or, as I have convinced myself, my reactions are understandable given his behaviour. But isn't that all abusers say?

Sorry it's so long

TBH, I wonder why you are together. It sounds like you are both very unhappy, and can't see a way out of things.

Not sure if you are abusive, but it doesn't sound like a very nice way to be living your life.

Maybe it's time for some counselling, both together and separately ?

I think you have gotten that funny feeling in the pit of your stomach for a reason.
This must be a shock, but it is a good one. Hopefully you can look at your behaviour and be more mindful of your husband.
Have a think about everything you have said here, and if you think it is the right thing to do, you need to apologise, listen to your dh, and try to move things forward.

No imvho you are not abusing him. You are reacting to his sense of entitlement. However it is not at all healthy.

My ex used to drink, shag around, be verbally, emotionally and sometimes physically abusive and led our family to financial ruin and yet he still expected me to bail him out financially with any money I had, eg family allowance and Incapacity Benefit when I was on it. He also expected me still to cook for him, give him lifts to work and iron shirts for him in the morning, knowing everything I knew. I couldn't bear him touching me and would "freeze" as you put it. I hated him for what he had done to our family and his expectation and sense of entitlement that no matter what he did I should still run around after him was the thing that caused the most of our rows. I am not meaning to hijack your thread but hoping to let you see that I totally understand where you coming from and your thought processes.

Your dh sounds like a selfish twunt and your behaviour is in reaction to it but still needs to be dealt with I think as it will end up being very damaging for all members of your family including him. That was certainly the case for me and my family.

It certainly doesn't sound like a very happy relationship. And I am a bit at the idea he doesn't 'deserve' a hug. Surely if he's having a hard time of it, then he needs a hug more than ever? Are hugs rewards, only to be given to people who are doing well?

No it's not happy. As to why we're still together I'm not sure. In the first 6-7 years of the marriage, we rationalised that the arguments etc, were a result of having three young children, then it was the pressure of keeping his business going, and then it was dealing with business failing and all that entails.

And 20 years just seemed to have crept up. The cycle has pretty much been the same, only sometimes the honeymoon periods could last months instead of weeks or days and we believed we had something worth saving.

i don't feel like giving him a hug, cos it's all about him. Yes he is going through a crappy time, but so am I.

About four months ago we agreed to go to relate, I made an appointment but ended up going by myself. Two months ago he said he'd changed his mind and he would make an appointment. Still thinking about doing so last night.

Do it. It'll bring you clarity if nothing else.

20 years is a long time for you both to be unhappy.

Sorry you are going through this.

If things were the other way round would you feel abused/controlled/etc?

I have wanted to go to relate for ages, he's the one finding excuses not to. He agreed that HE would make the appointment, but he just's 'not got round to it'.

LBaM, I'm not sure, because I honestly can't see the situation reversed. I have been a SAHM and a WFHM for several periods and did everything and had tea on the table. Even ironed his shirts - funnily enough, when the shirts thing came up recently, he whined 'well I worked full time." I really hadn't realised that he EXPECTED me to do it and therefore didn't understand why I expected any sort of gratitude. I don't iron for him anymore!

So, while he's out of work I expect him to act like a SAHD to a certain extent. But he won't take over, insists on only doing his 'fair share' but his view of fair, is not mine.

You're not communicating.

It's very frustrating.

It's hard.

Hester, what I read is that you've been infantilising him for years, have no respect for him, feel resentful of him and since OM, these feelings have got considerably worse and to boot, you're now seeing him as an unknowing victim. Added to that, communication is very poor, characterised by mother-shild interactions.

Relate is long overdue, I'd say. But beware of going and hiding the presence of OM from the discussions. I honestly don't think counselling works when one or both parties is hiding a very relevant secret.

Thanks Bobbie. It is hard, I remember your kind words on my last self-indulgent thread.

Sometimes I think I'm going mad; that I'm just expecting too much out of life. Why can't I just be happy with my lot?

And then seeing that this morning. What if I am deluding myself that I'm reacting reasonably with just cause?

I just want to stop feeling like shit, in or outwith my marriage. Want to have to stop analysing every interaction, every word.

I can't disagree with you WWIFN, I wish I could. A common refrain through the years has been "I'm not your mother."

I have been there to clear up after him on so many occasions, when he's forgotten to do stuff: pick up kids, appointments, bills. He went through a period of refusing to open post or answer the phone, cos he owed on all his cards etc. So I had to sort it.

So maybe there is little respect left. I do need to tell him about OM, although I suspect that be dying a slow death anyway, but it just feels like it'll make a bad situation even worse if he knew. There's not really that much to say: 'a man in the office makes me laugh and feel good about myself' is all it really amounts to.

i really don't like this Hester woman. I want to be the one I was years ago

You're not self-indulgent, you're just very confused.

Basically though, you're not happy. That's the top and bottom of it. You're going to have to take steps to change that, and taking crumbs from OM's table isn't going to help matters long-term, even though it will make you feel better in the short term.

Sounds to me like you've been rescuing him for years, and as a result you are persecuting him (it's TA speak - I've had lots of therapy, so forgive the psychobabble).

The OM has helped you realise how miserable you are in your marriage. Not necessarily a bad thing, as long as you recognise it for what it is - a massive wakeup call.

If this was a thread by a man, about how he treated his wife, I suspect people would be less understanding. You are controlling the relationship in many ways now. Your husband appears to have little control or equality any more. Lack of equality is damaging in a relationship. Lack of mutual support even more so.

I think you are both very very unhappy and neither of you deserve this. I think you have to both work out what you want. Do you actually want this to work? Are you willing to sacrife this othe rman to work on the problems in your marriage? Are you willing to ct him more slack so that the relationship is more equal?

Maybe Relate could help. Or maybe it is time for a break, even if just temporary.

I think I know what you mean.

I want him to stand on his own two feet and stop leaning on me. Or at least if has to lean, at least acknowledge my input.

And for him to recognise that he's not entitled to anything from me just because we're married and I have been there for so many years.

I know you're right about OM, but...

...but you just need to feel good.

You need to know that there is someone who finds you attractive.

You like who you are when you are around him.

You like spending time with someone you don't have to rescue.

Am I right?

It's so so difficult.

it sounds to me like your relationship has run it's course

neither of you are happy

you are looking for comfort outside the marriage

he is unwilling/incapable to be the man you want him to be

what is there to save, other than mum and dad living (existing ?)together in the same house ?

you can still be co-parents, and both of you deserve to find real happiness elsewhere

Have you ever discussed splitting up?

Hula, I recognise that this may be just self-justification of the worst sort - but the lack of equality is down to him. He has chosen only to look for a job we both know is not out there atm; he chooses not to take on a SAHD role; he chose not to sort out benefits and got arsey when I suggested I would.

I had to take over the money because he would spend on stuff we didn't need, or buy brand instead of value and leave me looking for money down back of sofa to pay for train fare to work.

I really, really don't want to be in control. I'd love to hand it all over to someone else, but offers to share the load have been few and far between.

It does sound you need to lay it on the line with him, be clear about what you want and what will happen if things don't change.

He's passive, isn't he?

Are you emotional?

In happier times, who would make the first move when it came to sex?

And when you argue, who does the ranting?

We have discussed separating, but always as a hypothetical iyswim.

I don't think we could sell the house atm, not only recession but also huge building site next door.

We couldn't afford for one of us to rent, barely cover mortgage as it is, and we live 300 miles from my relatives and several hours from real friends. Although it's just occurred to me now, he'd probably get HB or whatever, wouldn't he if separated?

AF, I hope you're wrong, but suspect you're right about it having run its course. And yes it is the children stopping us in the end.

And Bobbie you're exactly right about OM.

He is very passive. I have wondered whether some of this is him waiting for me say enough is enough, so he doesn't have to.

I am the emotional one. And I do most ranting, he will blow up every now and then, but rarely.

Initiating sex used to be shared, then, with the arrival of kids it was him, now is me. He hasn't made a move towards me in many many months, but usually reciprocates when I do,