Am I abusing H?

[HesterPrynne]

Just followed a link from another thread to a site on the 'cycle of abuse'. And I feel as if the breath's been knocked out of me.

Our relationship, almost 20 yrs now, is pretty fucked up, but reading that I fear it's worse than I thought, and that I'm actually abusing him. Or is it the other way round. I just don't know.

There's no violence, but lots of shouting. No name calling as such, but I do scream and shout about how little he does around the house, when's he going to get a job - been out of works since Sept - when's he going to deal with his 'depression'. And he shouts back that I don't understand, he's anxious, he's trying. He's doing more than he was, etc.

But what really hit me on the abuse site, was how withdrawing emotional/physical support is construed as abuse. That and money. We don't hug, kiss, or hold hands nothing - why should he expect sex? He frequently says thinks would be so much better if I were more 'emotionally' supportive. He would do the hugging etc and I'm the one who pulls away or freezes. And I know it's because I don't think he 'deserves' it, is that what they mean by withholding?

And the money stuff. He's not earning, screwed up benefits by 'forgetting' to send in the necessary paperwork, will only look for jobs he thinks 'worthy' of him and still thinks he deserves his 'treats' like a couple of beers a night, his proper coffee etc. So now I give him allowance, ie I leave money in one account he can get to, but have another which only I can access, so if 'his' runs out he has to ask for more. Not because I don't want him to have those things, but because we barely limp from month to month and without my credit card, he has no creditworthiness, we'd be stuffed. Is that 'abusive'?

And all of this follows the cycle, blow-up, honeymoon, calm, tension, blow-up.

Some of you may remember previous posts about an almost-OM, a situation I'm not proud of, but don't have the strength to bring to an end because of all of the above. He's the only bit of my life I take any pleasure atm, and bizarrely probably helping stay with H, because he makes life bearable.

So am I abusing H? Or, as I have convinced myself, my reactions are understandable given his behaviour. But isn't that all abusers say?

Sorry it's so long

Ready for more psychobabble?

Sounds like he's a schizoid personality (withdrawn) and you are histrionic (very emotional).

Put in less scary sounding terms, he's a rock and you're a whirlwind. You whirl around faster and faster, trying to get an emotional reaction out of him, and the more you whirl, the further he beds down and becomes unshiftable.

Whirlwinds will whirl away, eventually.

Counselling

X-posted with you Darkknight. I've just read your thread and now I'm all teary.

Thanks for posting, I still can't quite get my head round me being that person. I'm finding very difficult to not to turn it round to me being the victim and retaliating.

I wanted him to make the relate appointment, because he said he would and he ducked out of the firs, but it's probably too late now to play games.

Hester, I'm afraid I think your behaviour is a big part of the reason for his depression - if not the whole cause. I salute you for having recognised it: that feeling in your gut means you're not some sort of incurable nutter, but a fundamentally decent person who has adopted very abusive patterns in your relationship(s). I don't know why this is. You'd need a counsellor/therapist to help you sort it out.

Relate won't be any good for you two, thanks to the extreme imbalance between you. Once you get more insight into your own behaviour, couples counselling might help - whoever you're with, at that point.

I agree your H needs to know about OM but I seriously don't see how you're going to tell him this without kicking the bugger whilst he's on the floor! Ideally, I suppose, you would find a way to show you've recognised your abuse, show true remorse AND hit him with the OM news ... but I can't imagine how that would work!!

I do wish you luck, and am happy that all of your relationships will be more pleasant once you've worked on yourself.

I really don't agree with that, sorry.

OP and her husband have been locked in a game, probably for most of their relationship.

Not saying OP has behaved perfectly, but there are always two sides.

There are always two sides, obviously - and there are different ways to handle a verbally abusive partner. One of them is to 'bed down', as you say. Being constantly slagged off and rejected is pretty damn depressing.

Sometimes the "two sides" are action + reaction.

He could have responded by leaving. Or by beating her up. Or by having an affair. It's still a reaction.

I just think that it sounds like the OP is trying, at least, to improve things and is showing some self awareness.

And it can be seen as emotionally abusive to behave in a passive way that offloads the emotional and practical responsibilities onto the other partner. It's easy then to sit back and feel victimised when they blow up because they've had enough.

However, none of know the full story, do we?

none of us

Hester, I think it might have been my thread you saw the cycle of abuse on.
I don't think it matters whether you come under that heading or not.You have recognised that you might be to partly to blame for some of the problems/issues that you have. So it's a good start. Counselling might not be good for you together.. but it might be good for you on your own. I would find a relate/marriage counsellor and try and get him to go, and go separately on your own.
The OM is a difficult one, how would you feel if he was doing it.. almost?

I hope you'll forgive me for veering a bit off topic, Hester - I wasn't going to come back to this, but it's bugging me.

My exes were both shockingly abusive; I didn't recognise that while I was with them (lifetime conditioning, bah). I reacted to their insulting behaviour by losing my rag. I shouted, screamed, withdrew, rejected & so on. Yes, it was understandable that I reacted - but my reaction was abusive. I countered abuse with abuse. An emotionally healthy person might have cried and/or tried to suppress her hurt ... and would have left sooner, if suppressing her feelings hadn't already made her depressed.

My point is that the shouting, screaming, withholding, etc is abuse. It can be understandable, but never justifiable: whether Hester does it, or me, or some bloke we're all so keen to criticise.

Itsgrace, I don't think it is off topic. And I do see what you're saying.

I can see that maybe I should have gone way back. Instead of reacting to his lack of support during undiagnosed, but almost definite, PND with DD2; and during DD1's meningitis; and when I told him unplanned DS was on the way, by shouting and beginning a war of attrition which through habit has become abusive.

But I didn't I stayed. If only MN had been around then.

Thanks very much for sticking up for me Bobbie, in my absence, unfortunately I probably don't deserve your support.

I'm also uncomfortable with the justifications for bad bahaviour.
My Dh has been abusive (shouting, breaking things, occasional shoving etc), his reaction to any of this for a long time was 'you pushed me into reacting like this' - because I was lazy, depressed, careless, forgetful, slovenly, etc.
For far too long I was trapped into this sort of cycle that the OP describes.
It's terribly hard to deal with, because underneath you feel so useless (because you are lazy, careless, forgetful etc.).
However, I eventually saw the light and realised that no matter how bad I was (or lazy, forgetful, careless etc), it still did not justify his actions towards me (and dc).
I am going to counselling now and I realise that I had essentially battened down the hatches in almost all aspects of my life just to be able to deal with the potential onslaught (about being lazy, careless, forgetful etc).
He wasn't like this every day (or not 'badly') but I just never knew when he would blow up about something so I was CONSTANTLY on edge/walking on eggshells.
I also got to the stage where I just gave up because no matter what I did it would still be crap.

I think the OP needs to separate her feelings about how her H acts and her treatment of him. Would you consider it ok to talk to a work collegue in the same way?

Do you know what, Hester?

I think the best thing you can do for yourself and for your H is to get some counselling just for yourself.

Whatever the ins and outs of your behaviour, you are obviously very unhappy. You sound quite down on yourself and unable to see the wood for the trees.

It's a horrible place to be. And I think you are showing great bravery in admitting to your side of the problems in your marriage.

I wouldn't consider talking to work colleagues in the same way, even if they consistently let me down by not doing things they said they would, or doing things they said they wouldn't. Again and again and again. Or walked away when I needed help, but expected me to pick up after them if they had not done stuff

But you're right I would probably have left the job, or complained further up the chain, but who to complain to in a marriage?

You sound really angry with your H.

That's what the almost-affair is about, imo.

At the risk of repeating myself...counselling.

Sweetheart, you do deserve support!
Hope you succeed it using it well

Don't be too hard on yourself. Unless you have a personality disorder which seems very unlikely then your behaviour is a response to your situation. No-one deliberately sets out to be unkind or disrespectful unless they are badly damaged themselves.
The hardest step is to recognise your behaviour is not how you wish to behave.

Perhaps you could consider making a heartfelt apology to DH and telling him you wish to change. Then work out what a mature and reasonable non-abusive response would be to your DH actions.

I agree with BobbieW about the anger. I know deep down I am still angry with my DH about some very longstanding marriage issues to do with his work and mine, our sex life and his contribution to domestic life. These are still being unravelled in Relate.

But I have my self respect again, not totally but in part, and I am treating DH how I would like to be treated too.

You can sort this out. It will be easier than you think because you are not an unkind cruel person and as you say with everyone else you behave well.

I say too - get a counsellor! And well done for acknowledging your part in this. You are doing a good thing!

So that'll be counselling then?

But now I'm really scared of what it will reveal. About four years back I considered doing a psychology degree, until I realised I'd have to undergo some of therapy on the course, it spooked me. And I never could say why. It was different when I considered counselling as a couple.

And I really don't know if I can do as Darkknight suggests and issue a heartfelt apology as if it's all been my fault, which I know will probably lose me any sympathy I may have had.

It's just so far removed from my image as myself and our relationship, that if you're all right I have been seriously deluded for years. How did I ever get here?

Hester I was going to say exactly what BobbieW has said about being angry. All your behaviours speak to me of quite suppressed fury (sounds extreme but is probably true). I do htink that therapy will help you a lot.

Just you, not necessarily couples therapy (although clearly your H could do with some support too).

I really do feel for you. Therapy is not fun but it can really help you to at least understand why you behave a certain way and then you can go about fixing it or changing it.

Ahhhh - that's what counselling is for

I really understand your reticence about "what you might find" when you start counselling - I was like that, too, and probably most people are. Does this suggest, to you, that you are angry about something but don't know quite what? Counsellors don't blame or judge you, you know, they just help you figure out the inside of your own mind.

I'm unsure about suggesting this book, Hester - it's quite heavy going in places. It is the book a counsellor recommended to me, as I was nervy about opening my own dusty cupboards with her! After working through it, I'd opened those 'cupboards' and was left with a much clearer idea of what I hoped to achieve in therapy. You can 'look inside' on Amazon: Homecoming by John Bradshaw

All the best

I've just ordered that book, it looks great

I am angry. And incidents from years back can flare up and still make me angry/sad. But only since this relationship. Not from my childhood, which was mostly good, if unsettled - dad in army.

So any advice on how to find a good counsellor and how I can justify spending the money, when I've moaned earlier on in the thread about H spending money on coffee!

Justification not necessary. It's the best money you will ever spend.

And to be frank, a damn sight cheaper than a divorce.

Here's the link to find a BACP qualified therapist

Go for it

Sorry if the "therapy's not fun" sentence was bollocks. I didn't word it well and had edited the post a few times before leaving it. I'd blathered on about having therapy myself, etc.

Anyway, didn't mean to be an arse (it just comes naturally).

It honestly didn't cross my mind that you were being arsey Belle, I'm still just relieved that people are still willing to waste their time on me [feeble weak smile]

Thanks to you all, I have emailed someone on the BACP site - thanks itsgrace.

Can I ask for dispensation for not cutting off all contact with almost-OM, not sure I can handle it all at once. I know I should, but don't think I can just yet