'But We Took You to Stately Homes'...a thread for adult children of abusive families

[therealsmithfield]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parent?s behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotional abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesnt have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure wether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts;.

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

follow up to pages first thread

Im sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out grin. I personally dont claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will recieve a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

rose I dont have any words I can say to comfort you.
It just feels as though it's so tough on you having to go through all of this so soon after having your dd.
It must be taking its toll emotionally. It must be exahusting.
I think you are wise to keep your step Gf out of your life, both he and your Gm are defiantely very warped. The thought of your mother abandoned like that made me want to cry.
This story is so close to what happened to my aunt(dads sis) and my cousin (aunts daughter). My aunt kicked my cousin out of the house when she was only 11/12 because my aunt had met another man and my aunt didnt want to compete with another young woman in the house . Her reasoning being that her daughter (my cousin) was or had become too 'difficult' to control.
So my cousin was sent to live in a single bedroom flat with her real father who was also a heavy drinker.
My cousin developed schizophrenia and also became pg. Not long after she had her little girl my aunt swooped back into my cousins life took the little girl and then abandoned her again .
My aunt is truly toxic. She had three girls and only one has managed to have a relatively normal life and I honestly believe it was because she was the one who got 'out' (well actually she threw her out too at 18) But she moved away when she was very young and lived with my nan and gf.
On the other hand the youngest of my aunts three daughters stayed with my aunt (still with her now) and has continual health problems and has never married .
They suck the very life force out of people. They're like vultures

I hope you get something postitive from your appointment tommorrow. Unfortunately quite often psyches are there to medicate, and the psychological/analytical aspect often isnt their bag. You know yourslef better than they so so stay strong.

Thanks so much smithfield, I am going to post again later when kids are in bed

I have to be weary of the fact that my grandfather is very bitter towards them (understandably) and whilst I get on with him and his wife, I sense he to some extent has a role mapped out for me. I am to be vindicator and a chanel for revenge I suppose. He would like me to cut them out, to get back at them. It makes me suspicious of what he tells me sometimes. However I also feel that he is just delighted to see me and get to know me. I could be myself with him and I think that even if I had a great relationship with my adoptive parents he would still want to be in my life

However I believe most, if not all, of what he says to be true as it fits my picture of them so well. He was no angel but he was definately a more innocent party. I am trying to avoid black and white thinking; who are the good guys and the bad guys? I think it was one big dysfunctional mess with my mother and I being the main victims. However my grandfather has been lovely and I really clicked with his wife who also went rhough an abusive childhood and marriage and took a lot of time to speak to me

Queen you are so brave. It is terrifying confronting what has happened to you and telling other people. I have not told anyone everything that happened to me. I hope you are ok.

Rose I don't know your history but I hope your meeting with your grandfather and his wife has helped you. Your earlier post reminded me of when I had a friend over to stay and told her to avoid my stepdad because he was a "pervert". What a disturbing thing for a child to say. Like you also, my mother boasted about how clever I was... even though she had no idea what I was doing at school, college and university. I feel so sad when I think about how well I could have done if I'd have had different parents.

Hello all, have been trying to catch up with all the posts whilst I was away, but still am not fully up to date. I just need to get some stuff out of my head, I've had to bottle it all up for a lot longer than I thought.

Reading through some of your posts, especially the one's by OSAHM about always worrying about what other people are thinking about what you are doing and whether they think you are being lazy, describes me exactly. I always always think that DH thinks I am lazy and don't do enough around the house or in general really. And to be fair I suppose I am a bit lazy about housework, simply because I find it so very very boring and sometimes I just cannot bear to do it. But I usually get the basics done. But the point is that DH does not think I am lazy or useless. In this house, it is only me who thinks I am lazy and useless. And I was given the idea that I was lazy and useless by my dad constantly telling me that I was. Like OSAHN suggested, when I actually look at all the things I get done in a day, I am not totally lazy and useless, but I constantly feel this way, and think this is what DH thinks of me, when he doesn't. If he did, he would certainly tell me!

I wish I could get the voice out of my head telling me I am lazy and useless. And because I have this voice in my head, whenever somebody does, even jokingly or innocently mention something about me being lazy, I over-react, because it is a sensetive topic for me.

I am feeling guilty about not properly contacting my sisters. They have texted and emailed and sometimes I will reply but sometimes I ignore them. I feel I can handle contact at a distance but I definately don't want to meet them face to face. I feel guilty because I know it's not really their fault that they are the way they are and that they have treated me the way they have. But I know I have to put myself and my inner child's feelings before my sisters' and close contact with my sisters will result in me being hurt. I need to keep reminding myself of this.

Whilst we were away, I was triggered a lot. DD, in an innocent, childish way, said some things that really hurt me. I know she didn't mean it but I realised afterwards she had triggered me. I went back to my childhood where my dad would say horrible, hurtful things to me and I would show no reaction, as if his words just bounced off me. I would keep a poker face, stuff my feelings down, hide my hurt and pain. And I did exactly the same thing when DD said something hurtful to me. But i know she triggered me because my eczema flared up a bit, but then got better again once I consciously realised that i had been triggered.

When we finally arrived back in the UK, instead of coming to our house, I felt a real urge to go to my parents' house. I know it was not because I wanted to see them exactly, but I just wanted to go somewhere where somebody would welcome me home and say they were glad to see me and were happy that I was back. All the time we were away, DH's parents were calling every few days because they were concerned about us being stranded abroad. Nobody called me and I really felt like nobody cared about me, if I ever came back. A few friends got in touch, but I didn't get the sense that any of them really cared or were worried about me.

I thought I had got used to and accepted my lack of family other than DH and DC's, but I guess there will always be something unexpected that happens to re-open the old wounds.

I have a mountain of stuff to catch up on but I can't be bothered. I feel I can't be bothered with anything. I don't see the point of eg. tidying up, it will only get messy again. I have tons of paperwork to sort out but can't be bothered. I loved being away, although it was stressful as we had no idea how we would get home and it was costing us a fortune, but it was still better than being at home again, back to the usual boring routine, doing the domestic drudge and feeling trapped in the house as I have to do 4 drop offs and pick ups to nursery and school so can't really go anywhere or do anything.

Sorry to moan so much, perhaps I just have the post holiday blues on top of my normal everyday depression.

Help, I don't know what to do. I have never posted here before but I really don't know where to turn.

Sadly, like so many of you my childhood marks me everyday. Life is one step forward two steps back.

Today I am married to a wonderful man with a lovely child. My life is good, I have my own business and am doing well. However my mental state is always in a precarious place and is in real danger right now.

My mother is a bitter and twisted individual who if I toe the party line doesn't rock the boat. She has an unacknowledged drink problem, which is like an elephant in our lives.

Growing up my parents divorced when I was 11 and my Dad disappeared out of our lives. I didn't understand why then, all I knew was that he had gone.

My mother installed her new boyfriend, a nasty agressive drunk who had been in prison for GBH. He lived with us for two years in which time he destroyed our home, beat my mother within an inch of her life and sexually abused me.

I am not sure how she finally got rid of him, but my mother then went on to marry a very kind man who 20 years later is still with her.

He has stood by her drinking and the foul behaviour she dishes out when drunk, she has no recollection of what she says when drunk.

She has had two businesses go bust and today claims to be very happy. Everyone else is wrong, she is right but don't challenge her on her drinking or the disasters that have happened because you will be wrong. It didn't happen.

I spent my childhood never knowing what I would come home to, would she be sober or drunk. Would I get screamed at and called every name under the sun - whore, slut, noone wants you, even your Dad can't bear to be near you.

I bought my brother up, he fortunatly doesn't seem to remember the worst of it. We lived in squalor, I have been finacially independet since 12 through god knows how many jobs.

Somehow I have accepted the crap and maintain a difficult relationship with my mother today, however something has happened to blow it all out of the water.

My husband and I have decided to move to a different part of the country to try to slow our lives down and also for a particular school situation for our son. We are really excited, and proud of our son for what he has achieved (I can't say what as I don't want to be identified)

My mother has totally flipped out over our decision and on friday I lost my temper and hung up on her.
She says what we are doing is wrong, I am being cruel to my child, it is tantamount to abuse. She says everyone she knows thinks we are wrong etc etc.

Basically I am utterly devestated. How dare she, with her track record accuse me of cruelty. How dare she tell me and my husband and all the professionals who are working with our son that they are wrong.

I don't know what to do, I actually feel violent towards her, she lives two hours away so fortunalty I can't confront her. I wish she was dead but I feel all wrong.

Why when she has done me so much damage can she wreck my thoughts like this.

Sorry this is such a long one but I am in pieces.

haha, hello, am so glad you have found this thread. I am not surprised you feel you are in pieces. Like many of us, I think you tried to maintain a relationship with your mother as you felt it was the right thing to do even though she had treated you badly all your life. But I think we can only do that for so long, inside the pressure is building all the time as we know in our hearts that our parent(s) are not treating us like they should, but we keep swallowing our true feelings and keep hoping things will get better, our relationship with our parent(s) will one day improve and be how it should be. But they never do, things don't improve, and one day, the pressure gets too much and we 'blow'. That is what happened to me and it sounds like that is what has happened to you, when you hung up on your mother.

It was bound to happen sooner or later. One day the straw will break the camel's back. I am sure you have a lot more to talk about as well as what you have posted on here, which sounds horrific. You have done so well to survive all that as a child, and yet manage to sustain a marriage and bring up your son. It proves you are made of strong stuff, that you're a survivor, a fighter, a 'Gifted Child' in the words of Alice Miller.

Haha, if you feel ok about doing so, I would suggest you have no contact with your mother for a while. Don't call her and don't answer her if she calls you. You need space and time as I am sure there is a lot of stuff bottled up inside that will start emerging slowly and you need to feel safe in order to deal with it.

Haha, i can relate to your feeling violent towards your mum. I felt murderous towards my parents when I first started dealing with my stuff. To feel extremely angry towards somebody who has hurt you over and over again and treated you so badly when they were supposed to be the very person who looked after you, protected you from harm and loved you, is a normal reaction. We are conditioned to love and respect our parents no matter what. But that does not make any sense does it? Why should we or would we love somebody who constantly hurts us?

Exotic, then why do I feel so guilty? I am convinced that the life change we are embarking on is right but she has shaken my confiendence so badly.
I am terrified of failure and if this all goes wrong and she sits there saying I told you to were wrong I know I will fall over the edge.
The flip side is I know she has nothing to base her critisim on, she doesn't have a clue what she is talking about - Arrrggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Sorry me again. I am still hesitating over taking the money from my parents. Perhaps because although they are handing some money over, because it will be invested, my dad will still have access to it as I have no idea about managing investments, whereas that used to be his job. So purely financially, it makes sense to let him have access and control even though the investment will be in my name as he will know how and where to invest the money to get the best return. But I just don't like the idea of it. I would rather he just transferred the money into a savings account in my name and that was it. It is the ongoing aspect of the investment that bothers me I think. Somehow I feel it would create a 'link' between me and my dad, the account would be in my name but he would have authority to manage it, so we would be 'joined' by the account. And I don't feel comfortable about that. I don't really know how but I have this irrational feeling that he will somehow use this link to get to me, contact me in some way. But if he did just hand over the money to me, it would just sit there as I have no idea about investments, and it would get eaten away by inflation as interest rates for savings are so low at the moment.

Perhaps I should say that I will invest the money myself and find a financial advisor who could help me? Then there would be no ongoing 'link' between me and my dad.

I still feel a bit guilty about taking the money. Or perhaps it's more feeling worried about what my sister will think, it will look like I am just taking the money and running, givng nothing back in return. It really bothers me, I hate being thought of badly when it is so unjustified. My sisters are unwilling to consider the possibility that I am justified in cutting contact with my parents. But then no wonder because sometimes like some of you have talked about, I myself wonder if I am making it all up, did I imagine it all, did it really happen, am I over reacting to what my parents' did, etc etc. But perhaps that's only because I am feeling better and healing that I am beginning to think this way.

haha Have you heard of something called FOG. Fear/obligation/guilt , this is what toxic/abusive parents use to control their adult children.
This is what you mother is using right now. She has always controlled you with fear by the way;
'I get screamed at and called every name under the sun - whore, slut, noone wants you, even your Dad can't bear to be near you.'
So she hasnt changed on that score but right now she's smelt the scent of your happiness, your success...your rightness (despite her best attempts and making you always wrong) and she cant bare it.
So she's upped the anti, only this time its not just you at stake it's your son and so that gets you really mad.
The reason it hurts so much is because 1)on some level you believed her back then (as a child that you were in fact bad/wrong and so you belive her now. Who wouldnt she has made it her lifelong goal to rip your self esteem to pieces.
2)Maybe on some level you felt you would recieve the approval you've always wanted and perhaps you have been right where you are now; saying 'look mum isnt this great'. Only to have her tear you to pieces. .
You need to write down all the evidence to the contrary and it sounds to me there is plenty for you to choose from. Write down all the reasons this is the right thing for your son and for your whole family.
It sounds perfectly reasonable to me. You should be celebrating right now.
Then again, if you all move away and live happily ever after (despite/and in spite of your mother) where does that leave your 'her'? What the hell will she do without her favourite scapegoat
Yes, that's you by the way.
As exotic says would it be useful to keep your distance from your mum for now, lest she screws with your mind further?
Oh and I suggest you Toxic Parents by Susan Forward. Its an eye opener. HTHx

haha, put yourself in your mother's position. If you had a daughter and grandson who had achieved something wonderful, would you be pleased for them and support them in whatever decision they made? Or would you behave like your mother is behaving? Which is the 'right' response to your situation from a 'mother'?

I also strongly suggest you read up on this subject, Toxic Parents is a great starting point. You will then come to understand why you feel guilty when you are doing nothing wrong and in fact are doing something very positive.

Hi exotic. Why do you feel you have to take the money? I know that we all could find a use for some extra cash but but if it is causing you so much emotional anguish why take it. Why not just say no thank you for your kind offer but I have no need of your money and end of subject.

Alternatively you are going to have to be tough. Take their money but not the obligations. Either take it and put it in a bond/ISA through your bank or find an IFA through the FSA website and invest it yourself. If you let your dad invest it for you he is obliged to see you every year to discuss your investment- new financial legislation- or he is in breach of FSA guidlines. Can you cope with this? Do you trust him?

Hi Folks, I have not read all the posts, just skimmed this page.

Exotic, I hope to make you feel better, when I tell you not one person phoned to ask how the children and myself were when we were stranded abroad!

I have pushed so many people away and told no one we were going away. I only emailed my mother details but no dates.

I phoned the ex, when I heard the volcano was errupted and was going to cause us problems, I had not told him we were going away that long or where to , although I had mentioned in finances court I was going away over easter!

I left him a message stating we were in trouble abroad, it took him 24 hours to get back to me!

I rang my mother, as I knew she would be making a drama that would all be about her about it all!

In the end, she wanted to go back to rescuer role, I let it happen, she offered to go to my house, to check it was ok, she got me milk, bread and some bits, she offered for her oh to pick us up from the airport, wanted to send me out some money etc, I kept in touch mostly for her, and her dammed blood pressure, and a bit to cover me with the ex (if he queried with her regarding the kids) and just as a reassurance for me, being alone in another contenant with two children, not once did I ask for any support, practical or emotional. I kindly accepted the lift home from the airport( had taken a cab there) that was more for the kids sake really. I was pleasant in the car and invited them in for tea etc. The next day mother rang, she thought that after that all would go back to her phoning every day and normal to how it was six months ago, and be forgotten. I told her that was not going to happen, she complained I am so hard now, she moaned that she did things for me, I reminded her that she offered and I had not asked for any of it, that I appreciated it etc.

The next day then she went back to games of controll by stelth!

She phoned to invite us for dinner, she stated the time and place. I phoned her after speaking to the kids, to say that we would prefer to go to another restaurant, as dd had a craving for ribs, she was not happy, and used up various excuses to control the situation, I was not having any of it, and said if you want to meet us it will still be at the same time, a different place, she said ok, not telling me what she was goign to do, she never showed up. I rang her back to say that not showing was low, and to stop playing games, she has gone for a month now to golden boy abroad and his daughter, she is spending three weeks with golden boys fiance who she has never met before, she fell out with golden boys first wife, when the first wife stayed a long while at mothers, so I don't hold out much hope for happiness, unless mother bends over backwards to ensure she is best mates with dil to wind me up or something!

Told mother that until she sorts out what she has done wrong, things can't go back to how they were, that she had triangulated my relationships with my brother and father and poisoned things for me! Told her that she and father taught me I was worthless, so I thought I was, they showed others I was worthless so they thought I was, she says I should not blame her for things in my life and take responsibility for myself, which I have done nothing but my whole life taking responsibility for myself and everyone else, she has to take responsibility for what she did wrong, and I can't see it happening, it makes me so sad, the paretns are getting older and older, in worse health, it will never happen now!

The ex's family are being nastier than ever to the children also, long story, I keep holding out for things to get better and they get worse, got it feels such a relief to let all of this out, I have kept it locked inside for so long, trying to stay positive for so long when aboard, and with the kids when we got back!

The only person to talk to, I have seen outside of family, was a friend who popped around for an hour and she wanted to chat about herself, after she asked me about the holiday, and she had a deep issue to deal with poor love! She does not know a lot of detail about what has gone on with me!

Not heard a word for six months from father, he still hates me!

HahaWitch, your mother's opinion counts for nothing after the bad things she has done. Are you able to see it like this and not let her opinion get to you? I know it is easy for someone else to say.

Exotic, I agree with Sal, it sounds easier not to take the money than going through all the different aspects of worrying about it if you take it. I can see why it could be tempting thinking what you could do with the money. And it might feel like they owe you it after the way they have made you feel. Is this a way for them to try to get back in contact with you because they miss you but don't know how to go about it in a better way? I'm just saying it because a while back I think you said that it made you sad that they didn't seem to care that you had cut off because they didn't try to contact you. I think my dad has tried to express some kind of feeling for us by paying for things for us or helping with 'businesslike' advice on 'business matters' because he doesn't know how to/is incapable of expressing positive feeling any other way. It pisses me off but I can see that that is still some reflection that he does have some feeling about us, he just can't express it.

I hope I haven't said anything offensive. I am not trying to say 'see, your parents are good after all, you just can't see it'. I think that people, even people who have done lots of bad things, can have some positive aspects as well. I'm not saying this makes the bad things they did ok, it doesn't. I'm just saying that the positive feelings/thoughts they sometimes have as well are there.

This is what confuses me about my own situations. I wish I could see things in black and white because the fact that I see that it is grey makes the white bits put me off looking at how bad the black bits are and processing them properly.

Eg I want to process the anger I feel about what my brother did to me and I want to hate him to do that. But he is also a person who makes me feel less alone because he understands the specific things I've been through which he has had similar experiences of too. (it's a twisted thing that a lot of our similar experiences are because he copied things that were being done to him and did them to me, but it means he understands how I felt). He shows me understanding and acceptance of how I feel and how my experiences have shaped me. He gives me more validation than anyone else. I don't want to lose that.

When I feel a bond with someone I really don't want to break it, as to me, human bonds seem so sacred. I find it really painful to break them. I do realise that this is because of what I didn't have as a child. This is a whole other issue stemming from the adoption and the coldness between us and our adoptive parents. I think I feel that human bonds are hard to get and so we must hang onto them. I can see how this has stopped me separating from people who have started to cause me problems at different times throughout my life. I can see that sometimes a bit of rejection is not bad, if you are rejecting bad treatment from people and in separating from them to do this, rejecting them. I used to feel that if I rejected anyone I had committed the worst crime. I'm also thinking I didn't need to have a big falling out with some of the people, I could have just distanced myself a bit instead of having over intense friendships all the time. A bit of distancing would have been less upsetting for everyone than making a big deal of it. I'm staring to understand what is meant by 'boundaries' now.

I'm also gradually learning that if a bond is broken with one person, it isn't as hard as I thought to make another one with someone else. I don't have to accept what I can get because it's all that I can get.

It feels good to have articulated what I get out of the relationship with my brother, earlier in this post, which keeps me in it. It is mostly for this reason, and partly a cautionary thing about not risking angering someone who might be a violent psycho case and might not be the changed person I think. I strongly believe he has changed but I think it is sensible to have some caution and to think about the possibility that I could be wrong. I think it is sensible to keep things 'nice' and stable. I don't have to go overboard doing loads of things for him and then feel I have 'betrayed' myself if I change my mind about him (I mean done loads of stuff for him when I don't really want to).

Most of the anger is processed because I had a phase of feeling less of the positive stuff towards him and more of the negative, when I let Therapist turn me almost completely against him for a while. There may still be a bit remaining though. Therapist thought so at the time that I stopped going to see him (can't really afford it anymore and I was feeling a lot better so couldn't justify it).

Sorry, I didn't realise that commenting on other people's posts was going to spark off so many thoughts about my own stuff

osahm, what you said about distancing, really resonated with mistakes I have made myself in relationships, although I have distanced with people I was not close to, it was the one's that I had a connection to that things ended badly with, distancing is the wisest way to go really, when I think of those that come in and our of people's lives that is what they do and they never fall out, they cruise through relationships!

That thing of realising that you don't have to accept a relationship as that is all you can get, that is something I learned when I pushed people away from me. It taught me and my children to stop being needy, it was a harsh lesson in life, they and I are so much stronger for it. I know they doubted me at times, and were angry at me for removing social support temporarily. They realised on Holiday when I was the life and soul of things, and popular that it had done them and me good,that I was not billy bates, that people liked me etc, and it really boosted their confidence in me. What really was a shock for them is their little friends, kept telling them how cool their mum was and wanted to hang out with me as much as them! Made them appreciate me a lot more, realising their mates had fuddy duddy mum's and their mum was considered cool by older girls in their teens!

What you say about others posts, spraking stuff off in you, is so true, that is what draws me back, because if there is nothing to post, I can read and learn from others!

Sal, I think OSAHM has answered your question for me. Initially, when the money was first offered, nearly a year ago, I said no straightaway. The offer came via my sister who told me over the phone. I have this sense that the only way my dad can communicate is via money. Even when we were children, he would be really nasty to us, but then be very generous financially and I think it might have almost been his way of saying sorry and trying to make amends for what he had done.

So that is partly why I decided to finally accept the money. I also think my parents 'owe' me for everything they have done and all they have put me through. The money can never give me back what I have lost, my childhood, but it can make my life easier and better in the here and now. The amount offered is quite substantial, not like previous amounts he had offered which i turned down and never changed my mind about. My sister told me the money will come to me anyway (when my parents' die) so i might as well have it now when it would probably be the most useful.

I have told my sister that we will manage the investment and there is no need for my dad to do it and the money can just be transferred to me and i will deal with it. I will find an IFA and take their advice on how best to invest it. Am waiting to hear back from her now. It will be very telling if my dad now changes his mind and no longer wants to give me the money. I realise that I have been conditioned by my dad not to trust anybody but him which is why I felt the only person who would manage the investment properly would be him. But of course that is just not true. I'm sure there are many good and trustworthy IFA's out there and I'm sure I can find one of them to help me. I feel I have wiped a bit more of the 'treacle' off me by realising this. And will not be at all bothered or surprised if my dad does now change his mind about giving me the money now that I have said he will not be managing the investment.

OSAHM I really liked what you said about distancing yourself from people who are not good for you, instead of making a big deal about things and falling out with them in a dramatic way. I realised I have used the latter technique with a few friends, but I am now using the former technique with my sisters. The former is definately better. But it does not come at all naturally and I have to consciously remind myself about why it is best for me to keep my distance from my sisters for the time being. I keep feeling guilty about distancing myself and worrying about how they might be feeling because of it etc. But everytime I feel guilty, I remind myself about how they have made me feel, everytime we have had contact and over the years before i cut ties with my parents, and that is enough to make me stick to my guns.

Lately I've been worrying about things I did a few years ago which I regret. I was immoral (not terrible but still wrong) in some things that I did. I humiliated myself, acted desperate and stalkerish. I did things which 'normal' people are less likely to do and people who were around found it amusing, more in a laughing at me than with me kind of way. As recently as Christmas I found out that there had been gossip about it. I'm worried what has been said and how much people know. I'm worried how much people saw and how much I said when I was drunk especially. I'm not even sure how much I did say because someone said something and I asked who told them and he said I told him myself. I think I said too much and to too many people. There are things I'm worried about people knowing - about my personal stuff/family situation and about things I did. I feel embarrassed about things and ashamed of things. I don't like the thought of people thinking I am the same person I was then.

Now I am 'well' I can see how 'unwell' I was.

I fantasise about seeing certain people again (which may be unwise in itself) and them seeing that I am different and better and respecting me.

It probably shouldn't bother me what they think but it does. I don't want to 'run away' and never have contact with that group again. I like them.

I talked too much at the time because I was desperate to get things sorted in my head.

I'm not likely to see them all for ages (like maybe a year's time) so I'm not sure why I'm suddenly worrying about it.

I couldn't see how 'embarrassing' my behaviour was until recently. At the time I think I was too 'ill' to see it.

Maybe people just forget things and change their view of people like last week's news being used as fish and chip paper sort of thing? Maybe I just have to not think about how embarrassed I feel when I see them and 'front it out' because they have probably forgotten anyway or don't think it is that big a deal and they will base their current view of me on however I am the most recent time they see me?

The black and white thinking is so hard to get out of isn't it?

I think it is useful and therapeutic to at imes acknowledge there were at times black bits. That they were wrong and you have every right to feel anger, hurt and pain. That it is okay to distance yourself from bullies and narcissists who damage you.

But I do struggle with acknowledging the times my adoptive parents were good or nice. It is like I have a cognitive dysfunction, caused by the abuse, that does not allow me to see shades of grey and cannot equate the time my adoptive father taught me to ride a bike and said he was proud of me with the times he abused me. My brain actually hurts when I try to think of the two and I get confused.

Personally I think it is my inner child that had to play by these rules in order to survive. It is like I want to see them as all bad because I just can't understand how someone can abuse a child one minute and be nice the next.

I am beginning to understand more about them. That they were abused and thus have repeated the patterns. It actually lessens my anger and desire for revenge. But it feels like if I accept the good bits then I have to let them back into my life.

I suppose ulitimately nobody is all good or all bad. However if someone's 'bad bits' step over the line and cause you sufficient damage then you need to distance yourself. You can acknowledge the good bits but they don't excuse or invalidate the bad bits.

In fact it brings me back nicely to the title of the thread 'but we took you to stately homes'. It does sum it up beautifully, the false logic of abusive parents. Somehow because they did good things at times, they feel the bad bits are invalid.

I believe I am mainly a good mother but I have bad moments. The difference is that the bad moments are within a context of unconditional love, and I am sure children instinctively know this. My bad moments are mostly within the range of normal responses to stress, tiredness and the grind of parenting. The crucial difference also being that if my children ever turned to me as adults to express a memory that had caused them pain - I would not invalidate them or deny it. I would apologise and explain that it wasn't them (they are the light of my life and wonderful children) but my issues that maybe had caused me to step over the line. The week I had my mini breakdown I smacked my ds and even shook him. I am utterly ashamed of it, but I am not in denial. It was abusive and I apologised and hugged him and as I said I am sure it has not affected him too badly because he knows he is loved and loveable and 99% of the time I am a normal and loving mother. It prompted me to go to my gp and get help and I am sure it won't happen again. I realise at times I have anger which needs to be chanelled safely.

When abuse is constant and the child does not feel loved or safe it becomes pathalogical but I would argue most of us have abused our children at some point

I have totally got off point here!

Am I too late to join this thread at page 39? There is a thread in chat which brought up some things I would really like some help and advice with but I don't think it really needs its own thread.

OrdinarySAHM - I too have acted immoral in the past and hurt people and even lost a couple of friends

My acting out as you call it was in the context of seeking male attention. It has got me into a lot of bother in the past. I would even say it was a narcissistic quality I inhereted from my adoptive parents. I had to have every man looking at me or I was ugly, fat and a nothing

This thinking I realise followed the 'all or nothing' pathway of disordered thinking so common in abused children. We are either perfect or disgusting, better than anybody or worse than everybody in the whole wide world. Also my adoptive father was obsessed by looks and weight - his abuse of me was often through this medium.

My behaviour actually covered a deep sense of insecurity, classic narcissism. I know I am not pathalogically narcissistic because I have insight and I would not behave like that now. I was also a teenager/young and drunk a lot of the time. So youth has to factor in it. But I do not excuse the times I hurt people. I wish I could make amends e.g. I kissed a friend's boyfriend who was a school friend of my dh. It went no further but I hate myself for doing that. My dh still doesn't know but the friendship broke down and we don't see them. He was also a damged person who had to have everyone else's girlfriend. Soemtimes I wonder if I should tell my dh but it would be to ease my guilt and I am not so sure that is right. This happened 9 years ago before we were even engaged. I have not looked at another man since and never will.

I can see so clearly now how my actions and ways of thinking were all driven by coping strategies I learnt to survive the fact that I wasn't loved as a child. It is becoming different now though.

I am on a journey, it will be a long one but I will get there

Gosh my last two posts make me sound like a dreadful person

Having read back my posts I had a lightbulb moment

I said that I didn't understand how anyone could abuse a child one minute and then be noce the next. However that is exactly what I did when I smacked ds and then hugged him afterwards to make amends

However the lightbulb is this - the black and white thing is confusing. But the crux of it is that we were not loved in the normal way as children, we had roles mapped out for us. That is the abuse

We can label it into categories e.g. sexual, emotional, verbal and physical but the above underoins it all and that is the tradegy

I know that I love my ds unconditionally, totally and for who he is. I have no role for him other than that he should be himself and is loveable for it. Thus my bad behaviour that week, whilst abuse yes, did not happen in a great black hole of nothingness and lovelessness for him. Thus he will be okay I think.

Love is the key to a happy childhood I have no doubt. I was not loved and now I need to learn to love myself

Hmmm. I also struggle with the "old me" vs "new me" thing - currently, it seems to me that most of the people I was close to are also damaged; it's quite possible we might not like each other any more. I've got back in touch with quite a few via Facebook, but haven't pursued anything - no chats or messages - whilst I carry on figuring myself out.

I've also posted a summary of what's happened and where I'm at, on FB and a few other places. For the longest time I felt emarrassed/ashamed about my past mistakes and - very much - things I did while I was having my breakdowns. Then I thought: why? What have I got to be ashamed of? I was in distress. If I'd done those things because of a physical illness - MS for example; can have similar effects - I wouldn't be squirming in shame about it, would I?

So I came clean. I don't yet know what effect (if any) this will have on future developments but, for me, it's a significant change. Shame comes with the 'Stately Home', doesn't it ... and it is not my shame. We'll see! Understand where you're coming from, though.

Hi, Robbin

Hi I have spent the last week lurking and not posting. I think I've felt ashamed at my "trivial" issues in the light of some of the awful experiences being posted about here and the courage being displayed dealing with them. I know none of this is supposed to be a competition in who got hurt the most, we all had unique experiences that hurt us....but....perhaps it's the old parental chestnut of my feelings being "attention seeking" and "over-dramatizing", it's a hard habit to break from that self-critical view.

A couple of things are particularly preying on my mind at the moment, I hope you don't mind if I share.

One of the issues is the guilt that comes with the distancing, which you've been discussing today. I started the distancing process as soon as I left home for uni, 20 years ago. I felt like it was what I needed in order to get on with any semblance of a normal life. That's not to say I didn't speak to my parents or see them, I did, it's just that I never shared anything with them, ie, what I was going through, be it work troubles, relationship troubles with my abusive ex, depression...and some quite specific stuff that happened and I guess about which one would normally seek out parental support. I was stalked and attacked by a bloke and had to go through quite an arduous court case in relation to this. A few years ago I also had a traumatic miscarriage. Stuff like this I just will not share with the parents and rarely would share with my siblings in case it got back to my parents. This is because I know that any mishaps that befell me would be deemed to be my fault in some way and also that my siblings would get an earful about it, thus leading to further resentment between us siblings. This happened to us all the time as children. The parents never had a calm, measured response to anything and turned everything into a massive crisis. I remember the neighbours called the police once because they thought my mother was killing one of us; she had just gone into drama overload because my sister was being sick, and rather than trying to make it better and deal with it rationally, went into hysterics. When I was almost 20, I went away with some uni friends to the lakes for a camping holiday. We're talking about a group of complete spods here going fell walking, nothing raucous. As it happened, I had to come back after one night because my then bf had been called to an interview. In the space of one day and night away, my father had managed to turn my going on holiday into some sort of crisis, had been yelling at and physically threatening my mother, who in turn took this all out on my brother and younger DS . Needless to say, I never heard the end of it for the entire summer holiday. Doing things in our household - just going out and enjoying the sun ffs- never seemed worth it because there were always consequences borne out of my father's need to control - which he portrayed as being the worry of a loving father. I'm sorry, but a loving parent lets their child live a normal life and accepts that they will experience life's knocks without blaming them for it. Normal parents offer practical and emotional help and support, not turn a crisis into an even worse one where you feel guilty for getting into trouble in the first place.

He made us feel like we would fail at everything, that we were not capable of doing anything without a mishap befalling us, and if it did, then it would be our fault. If we did anything, even if nothing went wrong, then the whole family was punished anyway, so there was never any pleasure in it anyway.

A very recent example. I got back from holiday at the beginning of March. I receive a call from my father. Bear in mind, I have not spoken to him for perhaps 6 weeks - both a result of me avoiding him and him not being bothered to contact me. He barked at me along the lines of, "Are you back from holiday? Please will you contact DS, I think she has been strangled." No, how are you, how's the pregnancy? Apparently, DS was away with work and had been on the phone with him, he didn't know where she was or what she was doing, and suddenly got cut off. This, he believed, means she'd been attacked. I am not terribly phased by this, sensing the usual parental bs. However, there's always that corner of doubt in your mind, what if they are right this once (visions of my sister dead in an alley)..... I sent DS a jokey text along the lines of, "Father thinks you've been murdered, please confirm otherwise". Immediately she is on the line to me. She's in a swanky hotel up north on a work's conference.She'd been called upon by work to go last minute. Father knows this because she told him which hotel; she'd told dad she was very excited, she was meeting lots of important people and it was going to be a great career boost to be there. She'd told him when she was coming home, her exH would pick up the kids later that evening and be looking after them until she did. She'd told him when they'd spoken she was about to go downstairs to dinner. She had then asked to talk to her 11 yo DS (dad had my nephews for the day) and told him if she got cut off it's because she was on the way down to dinner in the lift, and she did indeed get cut off. If dad was worried about her, her mobile showed no record of his trying to contact her, and that conversation had happened 2 days ago! DS asked me whether dad had asked how I was and, bless her, got doubly peed off when I said no and very angry at her pregnant sister being bothered with this tosh.

What had happened? DS got the full story when she got home. My dad had grabbed the phone off my nephew and the line was dead. He'd then gone into full "worry" mode, but rather than do something practical like call my sister's mobile and just ask her if she was alright, he just took his "worry" out on my 11 and 7 yo nephews. He told those children that their mother had been murdered. The 11 yo at least has the sense to know my dad's an idiot and begged to differ, but ffs, you don't say that to children! My DS was really upset, this conference meant a lot to her, and the knowledge that there had been all this trouble in her absence really brought her down. I got a call from my dad the next day (DS had obviously gone ballistic at him). Apparently it had all been a misunderstanding...no apology, no acceptance of how wrong it was to say such horrible things to his grandchildren about their mother.....then he gave me a list of all is upcoming medical appointments....still didn't ask me how I was though.

I wish I could put Dad's behaviour down to old age, but he's done this to us all his life. Made us afraid to do things, and if we did, made us feel guilty that our siblings have borne the brunt of his so called "worry".

Does it make sense that when real mishaps have befallen me, my parents have been the last people I have turned to? That's my choice, has been for 20 years. I share nothing with them. So why do I feel so bloody angry that they are not there to help me? Is it just the "dream parents" I'm yearning for now?

My younger and lovely DS had been scheduled to look after my DD when I give birth. She can't now do it, unavoidable work commitments. She's gutted, I was with her for both her births. I am not in contact with older sis or bro, all to do with issues stemming from childhood and sad because we all used to be close. I don't have any friends who could just drop everything and help. My PILs are wonderful and lovely and would do anything for us, but 200 miles away and carers themselves for 90 yo. FIL has serious medical problems but still works hard to help his family which firmly includes me and DD, but he's in hospital the same week as I'm due to give birth. SIL also wonderful but has two DCs doing big exams. That leaves MIL who's already stretched to capacity and I am loathe to put this additional burden on her. I am facing giving birth alone. DH will be gutted if he can't be there. I am so angry at my parents because they are useless bastards now and always have been; they've driven a wedge between me and my siblings; they have taken so much form us and given nothing back. Neither of them have asked me once how I am during this pregnancy, not one single time, never mind offer any practical help. And my excellent PILs and DH have to pick up the slack again and again to help me.

And I feel so ashamed because this is exactly what I feared would happen in my life, why I rejected so many potential good relationships in my 20s and stuck with my ex because his family was as bad as mine, so neither of us were deficient. I've come into my lovely DH's life and brought the crap that is my family with me and burdened both him and his family with my family's failings and my failings - because, awful though they are, I've made the decision to distance myself from them and now I'm reaping it all in.

PS, lovely sis let slip the other day that my mother is pissed off with me for not acknowledging mother's day. Yet again, I feel guilty.

Blimey, Refreshers, it's a miracle you came out of that background as sane as you are!

Sorry to keep this short: have you seen this page about Histrionic Personality Disorder?

Rotten news about your birth partner. Is there any chance you could get a Doula to take some of the weight off your MIL?

Why do you feel you have burdened your in-laws with your "failings"??