where have my morals gone?

[isitterrible]

I seem to have lost my morals!

There is someone i really really like a lot. He is just amazing and we have a wonderful time together, but for various reasons its very on/off. Its been broken up by both of us, and the make up as been instigated by both of us... so its not just a ' using me for a shag type thing'

Anyway, for a while i have suspected that he has a gf. This would normally make me stop. But terribly i decided it didnt matter and i was going to go after what i wanted. I then chanaged my mind.. but from just before christmas i am seeing him again.

Have found out yesterday that he does have a gf. I dont know how long he has been seeing her, but i dont think its all that long... ( after i met him ) She lives 3 hours away and he sees her maybe once or twice a month.

So - im thinking hes still fair game... i know this is wrong ( realy wrong ) I also realise it makes me sound daft and very stupid so am prepared to be flamed.

BUT then i know that we have a truely excellent time... but then wonder, if hes having such a good time why is he seeing her....

hes a git isnt he????

If this man means he will trap you forever, then I'd say you have to get out now- as it sounds rather sinister - or rather not go so you can be trapped.

But surely it is all just talk? Only you know if he really means it- or if it is part of the games you play.

There is a fine line between the frisson of sexual games and the risk of something more sinister. Does he not know when to stop? Do you feel it is out of control when you are with him?

Do you not trust him?

As for ending the addiction- well, either cold turkey or reducing contact and filling your days with other things. If you are serious about cold turkey, change your mobile nos, and other contact details so he cannot find you.

At the same time though, I'd have a haard think about whether you are imagining a disaster waiting to happen, or if it is really part of the fun / fantasy of this type of sex.

From what I know about BDSM there must be boundaries set by you both. I take it you are the submissive? A 'good' master will not do anything that would go beyond what is acceptable. You do both need to communicate what you are prepared to go too - but with children there has to be limitations. I did read a useful site once that spoke about BDSM in homes with children - I will try and link you to it as it gave some really useful tips.

you know, thats excally the problem. I do think he means it, or thats what he wants.

In any case, it does add to the frisson. We both normally know when to stop. I am a normal, nice person ( i know it might not seem it from this thread!). But when we are together, or even just talking, it seems we dont know when to stop. As i said earlier, for some reason, we seem to push each other past normal boundaries ( without meaning to).

Ending the addiction is hard. We have stopped talking/seeing each other so many times. I have deleted his number, changed my email etc... he has done the same. But in this day and age if you want to find someone you can, quite easily.

I dont bother doing any of that now... i know for a fact, eventually we will get together again. Like - this last time he called. First thing i said to him, ( not even hello) was ' why are you calling me' and he said, same reason as why you are answering the phone.

Ive even tried dating other men... ive gone out with friends, done all sorts. But its still there sitting in the back of my head. Im presuming it must be the same for him.

I am not sure, but are you hooked on the drama surrounding this man and this particular relationship, rather than the man itself? It seems to me that part of the allure IS the should we / shouldnt we aspect of it. It is excitement in itself to keep thinking about him in those terms. You have built an awful lot into it, excpectations wise.

It sounds very physcial, in terms of your own reactions. You KNOW what the beep from his mobile means. HE knows how you react to that. It does sound rather sinister, when you now say he says "one day I wont let you go". It is not sexual play on equal terms, it has a sinister control aspect that you cant have, and seem unwilling to have.

Sex, in whatever form, is usually ok, between consenting adults. But you sound you are only half consenting to some aspects of it. Yet it gives you a thrill.

I think you need to put a stop to it. You CAN put a stop to it, and the best way would be cold turkey.

I know. I have done it. (gone cold turkey I mean)

The reason you can't stop is because its exciting. This type of relationship is. Rather than stopping it surely you should be looking at ways to make it work. There are relationships like this and they are good ones - but there are parameters, which are set and words used when enough is enough. If he is not prepared to abide by that then he is not the right man to be having a relationship with.

that sort of brings me back to my original post.
I think we most likely wouild sort things out, eventually.
BUT i do know, for a fact he is seeing someone else.
So - where have my morals gone! - and where are his.

Jazz - it is exciting, its the most exciting thing ever. addictive.

quint - it is def most not sexual play on equal terms, thats part of it. It does have a control aspect - but thats BDSM for you. Ultimatley by me being with him, i am consenting. I know what he wants ( and i know what i want) and if i didnt want the same. i wouldn see/talk to him. We do actaully spend hours and hours and hours talking about things first. I am not pushed into anything i dont want to do. It is very physical, totally. And of course, he loves that i react like that. I wish i didnt react like that, but i do. If i didnt it wouild make things so much more easier.

9 1/2 weeks

ive never even seen that - is it good?
whats it about ( apart from the fridge sceen.. which i have seen)

You should watch the film The Secretary, if you haven't aleady.

oh - i have... its one of my fave films at the momment... i think ive watched it weekly for about 6 months! LOL.

ive no hope in hell of going cold turkey do i?

If you enjoy BDSM the why not meet someone else in the scene that is single and you feel totally safe with?

I don't think morals come into it really.
Go back ot the first responses- you are both single ( assume?) and you keep breaking up. Why should you feel bad about him seeing anyone else- you do it yourself.

Lost of people get sucked in to sex-only affairs, but you seem to have more than that.

I suppose the ultimate question is- do you want to have a permanent exclusive relationship- ever- with this guy- or is that not part of your agenda?

If you do and it's not on offer then you have to end it. if it might be, you hang on in, if it is then you both need to talk about it.

9 1/2 weeks is a good film, and I think you'd identify with it. It doesn't have a happy ending though. You might. Or might not.

Do you know if he is having BDSM sex with the other woman in his life? I think that might be a useful bit of information for you to have - and do you have BDSM sex with other people? Sometimes people can get stuck in a not-working kinky relationship purely because the other person is the only person they have been able to share their kinky side with. As it happens, BDSM relationships are as variable as non-BDSM relationships, some work, some don't and some have different ways of doing things.
As to how to deal with the 'danger', I don't know quite what you are getting up to (and there is no need to share if you don't want to) but with most 'extreme' kinks, be that sharps or breath play, there is a lot of safety advice out there. What you might find helpful is to hang out on some of the discussion forums for BDSMers, such as Informed Consent, or LFS. Some of the advice you might get would be as, er, robust as on MN but it will be coming, generally, from a pro-kink and properly-informed perspective.

If you want to carry one because you are enjoying it equally, then carry on.

If you really want to stop, then have a think about hypnotism.

solid - im already on informed consent, fetlife and a few others... has been very useful.

I think he is having bdsm sex with her... but not at a level he is happy with. Same as me, i found a few like minded people int he times that we have split up ( not had sex with all of them... just indulged in some bdsm type activities). I know he cant be happy... as he keeps coming back. Because, surely , if he was - why would he?
I know i wasnt happy with what else i found. Beacuse, if i was.. why would i always go back? ( in answer to your post Jazz)

so - he is totally correct when i ask him why he is phoning me, and he says same reason im answering the phone! LOL

Purple - yes. We are both single... well, hes seeing this girl. But i mean, its hardly often is it.. and its not been for long either ( morals sort of come into it) We must have something more..... or why would we keep going round and round in cirles? If it wasnt more why would we keep coming back? Why would it be worth all the hastle? I need a males perspective... why would you chase after someone if you were ' seeing' someone else?

I know its probably not going to have a happy ending - ultimatley i do not know what i want. Most of the time i cant see past the craving ;)

SolidGold is right the BDSM forums are really helpful and can offer real help and advice for this type of lifestyle - in all its variations.

yep - im already on a lot of them really helpful and very intersting.

Oh isit- he is probably seeing someone else becuse you keep dumping him!
For goodness sake, talk to him about it.

Doe he know that you know? Will it be okay for him to know how you know?

I am not bothered at all about what you do, or who you do it with, but what you need to consider is why are you so unhappy about all of this? It looks as if communication between you is not happening- or if it is, you are avoiding certain issues. Tha implies you have an emotional investment which you fear is not being equalled, so you are avoiding asking him stuff.

purple - you are good you know! There are no files on you at all are there....

He doesnt know i know... I cant tell him how i know either. So cant really do anything about it..

I cant say i blame him anyway. From the very momment we met it was really intense. Hes always been saying things like ' soulmates' and talking about feelings etc.... makes me clam up and i tell him its rubbish and not to be so stupid. Even though i feel the same way. In fact, hes told me all this loads and loads of times and i dont think ive ever said anything like that to him at all.

Because i dont want to get hurt.

Oh dear....... Tis all my own fault isnt it.

god - who needs therapy when you have MN! LOL

So - i need to tell him dont i.... risk it.

Damn

ha - just found this from an msn conversation about 2 weeks after we met:

' it is a headfuck though. youre the dictionary definition of soulmate. i hate that word '

'no - i dont belive in that shit
rubbish'

and so, it has continued for months and months like that -and i just tell him hes wrong....

do you ever feel like you have been hit round the head with the stupidity stick.... ha!

i do actually feel terrible now... the whole time hes been saying things like that, and how hes falling for me... and i just tell him hes wrong, or stupid, or ridiclous.

And then pretend it doesnt matter... then ( and ive just realised this) he says it doesnt matter and im only after him because of the bdsm and i agree..... ( because i dont want to admitt that im not, and risk getting hurt)

oh bollocks - god im stupid.

Sorry to have posted so many posts on the trot... train of thought and realisation.

Thank you MN

start saying how you feel. You are pushing him away.

You can't guarantee a good outcome with anyone- but you sure can stop the chance of it ever happening by bottling it all up!

I hope it works out

Yup, final verdict (for now) is that you should have a proper straight talk with him. If you have been fending him off all the time despite the fact that you feel as deeply as he does, no wonder he's trying out other women - though there is of course the possibility that he's going to be one of these blokes who actually only goes overboard for women who back off and once he's got you/you've got each other, the whole thing will burn out.
BUT you will never know if you don't give it a shot.