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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Still feel bitter about friend's new relationship

52 replies

itchyandscratchy · 30/12/2009 16:58

Dh has a friend he's had since school. When I met dh I met with his friend's partner and we all got on brilliantly and they were part of our big crowd of mates. They got married the year before me and dh and were hopeful for dcs. They moved abroad for his job and she gave up a very successful career to go with him and concentrate on having a family.

While the rest of us went on to have dcs they had a couple of very traumatic mcs, one of which was ectopic and resulted in her having an ovary removed and the other a missed mc discovered at the 12 week scan.

They were told it would be very unlikely they would conceive naturally as her age was against her too. They then decided they might then go for ivf within the next year. After the 2nd mc they came to see us and it became very plain that she was grieving terribly while he, on the other hand, looked rejuvenated, relaxed and happy. I suspected that he was having an affair and 2 months later I was proved right.

The woman he was seeing worked with him and had made a beeline for him. She even befriended his wife to try to get to know him better. She knew about the mcs too.

They split up after he left her for this woman. Our friend (the wife) was devastated. It has taken her 4 years to pick herself up, move back and build up a life for herself. She has met a lovely new man but is still so hurt that she keeps him at a slight distance. He is devoted to her and is willing to wait for her to get over her marriage. It's too late for her to have children of her own now.

Some other mutual friends have kept in touch with the husband and his new gf, have met her when they visited (they still live abroad) and he was very keen for us to meet her but we didn't want to initially. Dh eventually made the move and met up with them on nights out but I wasn't interested. We still see the ex-wife quite often and we're all very close. We were invited on another night out this week with dh's friend and his gf but I didn't want to. Other mutual friends are starting to see me as unreasonable now as I won't go on a 'jolly night out' but I don't really give a monkeys. However, I know the chap was keen to see our dcs again and always remembers them at christmas so I said they could both come round for a coffee the other day. I thought there was less likelihood of me getting drunk and having a face on me if this happened.

So I met her and they were both obviously delighted that some progress had seemingly been made. The bloke asked me to consider going out with them the next time it's arranged and they both invited us to stay with them abroad and to bring the dcs. They were both very touched that I'd invited them round and seem keen to move it all on further. But as I suspected, I feel very bitter. I know really it's none of my business really, but I know just how very hard it's been for the ex-wife and I feel angry that she's now lost her chance to be a mum.

They obviously love one another and are happy but I can't help thinking at what cost their happiness has been. It would be easier if our friend (the ex-w) had recovered but I don't think she ever will really. Everytime I looked at them the other day I kept thinking of the gf asking the ex-w about her mcs and her expressing great sympathy, whilst knowing at the same time she was shagging this poor woman's husband.

AIBU? (Didn't want to post it there though!) Does it ever get any easier all round?

OP posts:
Plumm · 30/12/2009 17:09

I don't think you're being unreasonable - you sound like a very loyal friend. If it was the case that friend and wife split up and then he met someone else that would be completely different, but she was going through a traumatic time while he was getting his jollys elsewhere. I wouldn't forgive either of them either.

Doha · 30/12/2009 17:13

Totally agree with Plumm

I would find it hard to accept this new gf under these circumstances.

You have made the effort---no need to do more

Owls · 30/12/2009 17:17

This happened 4 years ago?! Think it's time to move on tbh. As for "I feel angry that she's now lost her chance to be a mum" well you can't be sure know that she would have been one anyway do you?

Not meaning to sound harsh here but I guess it depends on your personality as well doesn't it. Can only go by the way I see things but if I like someone enough to be a good friend then I tend to accept them warts n all. Must be a bit hard on your DH as well to be caught up in your feelings about the situation.

mrsboogie · 30/12/2009 17:48

I don't think you are BU. I would feel the same. I wouldn't want to give her the time of day either.

I don't think this OW stole your friend's chance of having a baby off her though, to be fair. Sounds like it wasn't meant to be - at least with that husband.

How old is she exactly? You can have ivf until quite an advanced age these days.

I wouldn't trust myself to go out with them on jolly nights out - I would get drunk and have a face on me and say god knows what to her as well. At least if you leave things as they are you can maintain an element of civility.

The image of her schmoozing your friend and being sympathetic about the mcs in order to get to the husband is a horrible one and not one I would be easily able to forgive.

FabIsGoingToBeFabIn2010 · 30/12/2009 17:52

I think you are a loyal friend. The ex wife would feel so hurt if she thought you were out having fun with the new bit of stuff. Tough if he misses seeing the kids. He should have thought of the reprocussions when he was shagging around.

hbfac · 30/12/2009 19:14

I think you're being loyal, which is widely classed as a virtue, but ...

You're making things a bit uncomfy for your dh and

Your two friends are both adults.

I think that sometimes you just have to take a step back.

Two things occur to me: Firstly, most people do not enter into relationships with others intending to cause the other person harm. We tend to embark upon relationships with love and a wild degree of hope. That is, we love the other person and we hope, often believe, they love us. And we hope that our relationship will bring their love to us and allow us to give our love to them. I think all of us have a sense that there is something quite amazing about love; it is the closest most of us will come to a supernatural experience - taking us out of ourselves, giving us a taste of joy and eternity.

I'm banging on about this because ... crazy though all that is, it needs to be remembered when things don't work out. You can forget that it was not the initial intention of either of them to end up at this point, with their broken relationship, with at least one of them, really unhappy. In a way, we tend to forget that both of them went into this hopefully. And we "punish" as though the "baddie" intended hurt from the start. They almost certainly didn't.

Which brings me to the second point; you really don't know what was going on in their relationship. Since most people don't embark on a relationship intending to devastate another person, and most of us become involved with equal dreams of an eternity of love, something has happened to change that. You, from outside, really have no idea what that might have been. And there are probably two people who are equally sad that their hopes have failed.

For all you know, your dh's (male) friend had realised this partnership was not working and was staying out of a great deal of loyalty, although it was killing him inside. Perhaps he was desperate to have dc, didn't love her, but felt it would be an act of betrayal to leave? And then, finally, he did? That's one possible story. There are many, many others. you've come up with one story - but you're almost certainly simplifying a complex narrative.

I don't know, obviously, but really, nor do you. People are complex. I write all this having been in the position of taking sides during a divorce, in which there seemed to be a clear "baddie", only to have come to the realisation, some time later, that the "goodie" was actually completely impossible to live with, and that the "baddie" must have been desperately committed to making the marriage work to have stayed as long as they did. That said, I personally find the "impossible to live with" person rather lovely in many ways.

Although I think it is OK to judge, in fact, I think we are required to, I also think it should be tempered by an awareness of human frailty. Most of us try to be good. Some of us manage to be extremely good. Some of us manage to live within the parameters of socially acceptable goodness. But a lot of us don't, or don't always. It doesn't make us wholly bad. How awful if we are wholly abandoned just because we fall short once or twice. Seriously, are you going to, wholly, always, write him off and make your dh uncomfortable for this? You've made it amply clear you disapproved of it. Perhaps that's enough?

Anyway, four years is quite a long time. Just because you allow the man back into your lives, it doesn't mean you need lessen your support for his ex.

Sorry it's a long post, it's just that I sometimes wonder about the level of emotion on mn whenever affairs are mentioned.

macdoodle · 30/12/2009 19:25

I couldnt be friends with the new GF/OW FWIW, she sounds like someone I wouldnt like to know never mind be friends with!
Stick to your guns, you have morals,and ideals and if it makes some shitty cheating arses feel bad so what!!

Also FWIW, my Xh and I split 3 years ago and I dont think I will ever fully recover trust damaged and all that shit

Janos · 30/12/2009 21:03

YANBU.

You aren't obliged to be friends with these people just because he is your DH's mate. If your DH wants to keep things going at his end thats fine, however given the circumstances I can completely understand why you wouldn't want a friendship.

"Everytime I looked at them the other day I kept thinking of the gf asking the ex-w about her mcs and her expressing great sympathy, whilst knowing at the same time she was shagging this poor woman's husband." -
Says it all about what kind of people they are really.

itchyandscratchy · 31/12/2009 10:27

Thanks for your posts. I absolutely accept that everyone and every relationship has their own complexities and only present a certain proportion of the iceburg to the outside world. I also know we're all grown-ups and dh and I have said ourselves that our friend (the ex-w) does need to move on now and accept that this has happened.

And I do realise that, yes, she may well have not become a mum even if she'd stayed married to this bloke; that's the emotive and unreasonable side of me coming out.

But I do also think that this couple do need to accept that not eveyone needs to bless their relationship and that they do need to live with this to a certain extent. Dh is very supportive of me and how I feel; he's said it doesn't make him feel awkward and he totally understands where I'm coming from. I'm not doing it to be all Ena Sharples about it; it genuinely sticks in my craw and I just can't feel happy for them in the way I would with any other friend who has introduced a new partner to us.

I think the husband is trying to rush me a bit because he wants everything to get back on an even keel and us all to be happy as a group again. I just don't feel it though. I don't mind seeing them every blue moon for a quick visit and a coffee but I can't see me spending weekends with them. I really wouldn't mind if dh wanted to visit though.

OP posts:
SolidGoldpiginablanket · 31/12/2009 10:35

TBH I think you need to get over yourself a bit. You seem to want to punish everyone in sight (all your mutual friends, your H as well as this man and his new partner) indefinitely for something that not only happened four years ago but didn't even happen to you. ANd the fact that the exW is still not over it could suggest quite strongly that she's a self-pitying whiner that the bloke is lucky to get away from.
What's put the stick up your arse? Did your dad cheat on your mum, or have you had issues with jealousy in previous relationships? Because TBH you are projecting like mad here.

OrmIrian · 31/12/2009 10:38

I don't blame you for feeling angry and hurt on behalf of your friend. I think that shows you are a loyal decent person. But you need to move on. No-one says you have to best buddies with them but it would be best if you could swallow the bitterness and join in with the parties and nights out.

How does your friend feel about this?

itchyandscratchy · 31/12/2009 11:13

arh, thank you solidgold. You're one of the reasons I don't post very often on Mn anymore; because it's very rare that meaningful discussions can take place without someone like you coming on with a completely unreasonable attacks and volley of accusations. Why can't you just put things in a way that doesn't cause so much offence? I haven't experienced any of the above, although well done for making me genuinely upset with your post for reasons that are not to do with the issue I wanted to mull over. You can leave my parents out of it though, if you don't mind.

No doubt you'll come back on with an 'ah diddums' comment of some description... But I would say it might be better to keep your comments less poisonous as they may well cause upset. I think I can live without your 'TBH'.

OrmIrian - yes you're probably right., In theory I meed to leave it be. But I only met this woman for the first time the other day and I'm not ready to jump in. My friend (the ex-w) knows that we will see her ex and his gf from time to time. She respects whatever happens but I also know she appreciates that I still feel for her. I've told her I will do things under my own steam and if I feel like socialising with this couple I will. I just don't feel like doing it at the moment.

But it's been interesting to read the different comments - on the whole.

OP posts:
itchyandscratchy · 31/12/2009 11:27

solidgold - some reading for you

OP posts:
minxofmancunia · 31/12/2009 11:38

itchyand scratchy it sounds like you're in a real conundrum, please ignore unhelpful, abusive and immature posts.

I can see both sides of the argument (for want of a better word) here, you sound like a lovely friend and yanbu for feeling aggrieved. However it's been 4 years and it might be time to try to make amends, although it's difficult I know, nothing will ever be the same.

other posters (bar one) have put it far more eloquently. I've been stuck in similar situations myself and on both occassions have made a resolve to remain impartial and remain friends with both parties, on condition that neither party use me as a confidante about their issues with the other person. Tis hard though, esp when we're out and people have been drinking .

I'm sure you'll reach a sensible decision whatever you decide to do.

WhatFuckingYearIsItAnyway · 31/12/2009 12:15

muses

I wonder if sg will redeem herself and come back to apologise for that tirade. It would be the right thing to do, I think.

itchy, I have been lurking so far and see you have had many comments that would have been similar to mine.

I have been in almost exactly the same situation. It is very difficult, unfortunately you cannot win.

I understand very well that you do not want to have things "back to normal" just to please this bloke. He is trying to sweep his bad behaviour under the carpet and erase his past relationship with your friend.

The way I dealt with it was to be civil (but not mates) to the new woman, refuse to sympathise with him when he complained about his ex (my friend) and scale down the time we spent with them. I would never have considered weekends away etc, playing happy families with kids'n'stuff. What a slap in the face that would be for my friend.

Good luck x

Harriedandflustered · 31/12/2009 12:25

When parties to a relationship split up - it doesn't have to be a his friend or her friend situation. You can have both without any disloyalty. Don't feel conflicted - you don't need to and your friend has enough generosity of spirit not to mind.

SolidGoldpiginablanket · 31/12/2009 12:31

FOUR YEARS worth of self-righteous bitterness on behalf of your friend, and you still want a pat on the back for it? Bear in mind that holding on to grudges hurts you more than other people.

ChickensHaveNoTinsel · 31/12/2009 12:32

OP, I don't think you are being unreasonable. I think I would feel the same way, tbh.

cocolepew · 31/12/2009 12:38

You don't have to like or want to be anyones friend, no matter what the circumstances. One thing though, you say this woman made a beeline for your friend. He didn't have to take her up on the offer, he's just as wrong IMO.

You should do what makes you feel comfortable, you have the support of your dh. You sound like a nice friend to have

WhatFuckingYearIsItAnyway · 31/12/2009 12:45

sg, you would have us think you are a grown-up (and lots of people on here are not by your definition)

what a shame you couldn't acknowledge the tone of your previous post on this thread was OTT

hey-ho

< as you were >

purplepeony · 31/12/2009 13:09

ITchy this is what you said....The woman he was seeing worked with him and had made a beeline for him. She even befriended his wife to try to get to know him better. She knew about the mcs too.

I haven't read the other posts so may be repeating what has been said but here goes......

No one can make another person leave their DH/DW for them- the H or W has a mind of their own and they decide to leave ( as has been discussed in another thread here.)

Why are you full of venom against the OW and not your Dh's friend who tangoed too? It takes 2 people to have an affair you know. he can't have been that committed to his ex if he left so easily - or there were problmes there of which you knew nothing.

His ex is not your responsibility. Yes, you feel for her, but she is an adult woman and presumably, not faultless- it takes 2 to make a marriage work and you don't know what was going on behind closed doors, do you?

Your DH has obviously forgiven his friend for dumping his wife, so why can't you? If any friendship had to suffer,it was your DH's and his friend's.

You need to move-on and get a grip. It's sad, yes, but it happens all the time. If your DH wants to remain friends with the guy then I think you have no choice but to make peace with his new woman.

OrmIrian · 31/12/2009 13:16

purple - I think she is just as angry with the man as the woman.

purplepeony · 31/12/2009 13:23

Okay- missed that.

But my point still stands- he is her husband's friend really, and if her DH can forgive him, then why can't she?

I think it's all a bit ivory-tower and too judgemental. life is messy, sad, a bitch at times- but bitterness just eats you up and no-one gains.
Move on OP.

Heated · 31/12/2009 13:33

Your dh's friend is possibly under the misplaced illusion that all can be as before, but of course it can't be because even if you weren't still harboring resentment at him having an affair and leaving his wife, the dynamic of the friendship has changed. The duo is not him and his ex-w anymore, who you all got on so famously with, but another woman, and a woman whose integrity you have severe misgivings about, plus they now live abroad, so whatever future relationship you have, it has got to be different anyway.

But he clearly values your relationship to the point where he (and his new wife) has braved your disapproval.

And of course it's not only the OW's integrity at question but his too - but perhaps it's easier to focus the blame in one quarter because you know the other people involved and like them? But it's equally possible, given their happiness, that she is not the devil incarnate and that they were meant to be together, that the pressure of failure of IVF would have led to the original relationship failing anyway, that no-one truly knows what goes on behind closed doors...you just can't know.

I think you should take them as you find them. Of course you can't wipe the slate clean, there are things you know about them, but judge them on how they are now. And let go of the bitterness. People make mistakes, err, are human. And to quote Maya Angelou, bitterness is like cancer. It eats upon the host. Don't let it do that to you.

dittany · 31/12/2009 13:37

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