I'm such an idiot and have wasted everyone's time and money

[Fruitbatlings]

Why did I get married? Why didn't I listen to my constant gut feeling?

I hate being in this relationship.

We got married in September this year after being together for almost 9 years. We have two DS's. A four year old and an 8 month old.

DH is, and always has been, chauvinist. Why I didn't see it years ago I'll never know. Every argument is the same. I'm a Childminder and as far as I'm concerned it is a full time job. He says it's just like being a SAHM and I should do all the housework/look after the house plus look after the children. It sounds petty but he complains he gets no thanks for working so hard - well, I can't remember the last time I did either. He thinks Childminding is a nothing job.
I don't like him at all and really struggle to have a conversation with him never mind have a sexual relationship.

I just want to be left on my own with the children - I actually envy my single parent friends. Their lives seem to be full of exciting things and have no stress at home.

He goes out every weekend plus occasionally during the week and is usually out all night then comes in drunk the next morning, laying in bed all day or just completely useless all day.

If he does any washing up or other household job he will remember it for at least a week, using it as ammunition. "Well, I did the washing up on such and such a day"
Fair enough, he cooks most of our evening meals when he comes home from work but he's told me many times he enjoys it, it's his way of relaxing. So why does he throw it in my face (not the actual dinner!) when we have a row?

That is the only thing he does do btw. At the weekend he behaves like a teenage boy. I'm picking up after him as well as the children. The weekend is harder work for me than during the week with two other mindees! I dread the weekends.

I just want to get out and I don't know how. My parents spent a fortune on the wedding and the guests spent a lot of money on us/to get to the wedding. I just feel like such a fraud.

Thanks for that beanz
I'm not sure DH would agree with anything I have said on here if I ever showed him (which I won't be!) Obviously this is only my side of the argument. I'm willing to accept I'm just highly strung if that is what I am. This is why we need a councillor who can listen to both our sides.
DH just makes out I blame him all the time and it can't be all his fault, this makes me question myself.

Maybe I just look for an argument?
Yes I nag him but ffs, can't he just do the things I ask in the first place?

His parents are willing to do pretty much anything for him. He would never in a million years talk to them the way he talks to me. They can do no wrong. He worships his little sister who is only 12 but makes me feel a little

Have to go and wake up mindee for school run now.
Thank you for listening and understanding though, makes me feel like I'm not going insane!

Fruitbatlings I hope you manage to get something sorted. It sounds like you want to stay with him but are desperate for a bit of respect.

You shouldn't have to fight for respect, it should be given, and it sounds like you're in a constant battle.

I think counseling would be good for you both (if he'll listen) it would help to have someone else hearing what you put up with. Would it be possible to look for a male counselor? If his problem is misogyny (and it certainly sounds like he has issues ) then if a female counselor tells him he's in the wrong he might just dismiss it as "silly woman of course she'll agree with DW" and feel no need to change.

He needs to care that this makes you sad.

Otherwise leave. If he won't change and you've tried everything then you cannot feel guilty for walking away.

Hope you're ok.

If he hasn't paid any attention to what you have said for 9 years why would he start now?

From what you say I don't see a very high possibility he will change, and the fact it is ALWAYS your fault and you are highly strung???? But everyone else thinks you are chilled? How can this be? This sounds like a sublte form of emotional abuse to me...he does not see you as a person and everything revolves round him and his parents collude in this.

If you want practical steps in how to split Women's Aid are always a good bet as they have helped many many women through things like this.

When my husband and I split, I had the same thoughts - how can this possibly work from a financial/housing point of view - mortgage, borth working, 3 children, etc.

When we decided to split, he moved into the loft (conversion), bought a new bed - told the kids that because the baby was so young (11 weeks) he couldn't sleep and had to sleep upstairs. It took him 9 months to move out, 9 months of sheer hell for me but i was only when I went on holiday for 2 weeks (he paid) with the elder 2 children (and two of my girl friends with children the same age) and I found out that he spent bank holiday weekend with his new girl friend (with MY baby - as I thought of her) that when I came back off holiday I shouted/screamed (totally lost the plot) and told him he had to move out. He moved out that night into a friends house and, about 4 weeks, later moved into his girlfriend's house (housing association) who he is still with (8 years on). He pays towards the children (which helps towards the mortgage) - the children are now 17, 12 and 8. He still sees the children very weekend (and one week at Easter, two weeks in the summer holidays).

I always wondered how we would manage (both of us, financially and, me, emotionally). When he first left, I always thought about how good it would have been if we were still toether, but when he finally moved out, I realised that I could manage both financially and emotionally and if we had stayed together it would have been the worst thing for both of us - neither of us would have been happy.

I still live in the family home and there is nothing I wish for more than 'paying' him off - one third equity (one third for me and one third for the children) but even 8 years down the line I am still not in a financially viable position to do this - but one day! Luckily, he has a nice house with his girlfriend (although it is not entirely his) and I would love him to have what is owed him but I can only do that when I am able to.

Miggsie, yes I did wonder about emotional abuse but thought I was over analysing it
It just seems so far fetched to be thinking about it like that but perhaps you're right!

I just keep thinking it'll all be ok when he finally starts earning a decent wage. New Job starts in new yea, first and second pay will have to go towards his debts but by the end of March we should be able to begin to enjoy it. I know money isn't the be all and end all but, my god, it will lift a huge weight off of us!

That sound really shit Bumblelion I'm so pleased you have come through the other side This is what I dream of whenever we fight.

Stuffing - You're right. I want to give it every chance in the hope I will get my feelings back.
I'll see if we can get a male councillor. However, he even said his best friend, who told him he was taking the mick and getting away with far too much, was wrong! How will a complete stranger convince him?

He just phoned me from his leaving do. Said "I love you" at the end of the call. I couldn't say it back. Doesn't seem honest. I just said "Ok, see you later!" in a chirpy voice.
He asked me if he was going to get a return "love you" so I just said it but I felt like such a fraud!
I'm hoping I can get my feelings back for him one day but I just feel he's worn me down so much I just can't feel anything for him except frustration

Perhaps councilling can help it to come back?
If I book an appointment with Relate, do you think they will let us pay in a couple of months time? Or will they want payment right there and then?

Bear in mind that it's very likely his saying 'I love you' means 'Shut up whining woman and carry on servicing me. Because I've said that 'I love you' which is the programme code to make those female domestic appliances keep running smoothly.'

My friend Brendan used to say "I'd rather BE single than WANT to be", which has always seemed very clear thinking.

solidgold

kiwikat - yes very clear thinking. I just don't want to throw away 9 years together when we've only just got married.
We used to get on, although I now wonder if I loved him so much back then, I would do anything (personality wise) to impress him. Now I've mentally grown up quite a lot, I've realised that actually we think differently. We see the world in completely different views and are, in fact, complete opposites. A bit of a problem really.

stuffing - I meant to say. I don't think he actually hates women or has tendencies to dislike them. He certainly worships all the women in his family. His Nan, his Mum, His Auntie, his little sister.
However, he does seem to have a problem with all my girlfriends. If I mention any of them, he says "She's just a plonker I don't know why you hang around with her" - these are very good friends of mine who have been there for me for years too!
We have grown up in different backgrounds.
It shouldn't make any difference but I was brought up in quite a middle class family. He was brought up on a council estate in quite a working class family where it was a lot more relaxed and getting into debt wasn't a problem because that is what it's there for - but then if you haven't got the money it's your only option.
I remember his step-dad saying something along the lines of; running up huge debts doesn't really matter, you might as well take advantage of it (or something like that)

DH very nearly got a CCJ the other day which would have affected all of us even though his debts were all down to him. He's always dipping into the credit card (which I have now torn up) and dipping into our accounts online (which I have now changed the passwords for).
He doesn't understand why he can't have access to "his money" - not his at all. He can get to his personal account and our joint account, just not the bills account.
He's had to use all our honeymoon money to avoid getting a CCJ I had to agree because suddenly, all his debts would have suddenly become my problem too (I have an excellent credit rating that I don't want spoiling)

I just feel he has an awful lot of growing up to do but will he ever grown up? I'm not sure...

sorry for all the typos typing really fast!

Fruit, he's taking the relationship for granted, and the fact that you both have such different values is a big concern too I bet you don't want your children to share his 'let someoneone else pay' values.

I'd suggest a counsellor, who would allow you both to say the things that you need to get across without it descending into a big scrap - nigh impossible to do in most situations without a moderator, especially when couples have as much history together as you two. Then you can decide whether the problems are things that you can work through, or whether they really are insurmountable. Counsellers also have a way of showing you things without the emotion that you invariably attach to them, and can suggest new approaches to conflicts.

I'd forget the fact that you're married and think only about how or whether you can make a relationship work with this man so that all four of you can lead happy, safe, fulfilling lives.

thanks Kiwi Just got to ride it out for another couple of months unless Relate will let us stat now and pay later.....?
I will have to call them on Monday

Fruitbat, it really does sound as though he's decided that you're there to look after him, and he can do whatever he wants as long as he says he loves you now and again, and maybe brings home the odd bunch of limp flowers from the petrol station. So you're doing all the domestic work and childcare and paying off his debts as well? What exactly are you getting out of this man living with you?

I've no idea SolidGold - Going to ring that tax credits number on the page before to see where I stand financially.

We had another row this morning. He is going out tonight again after being out Friday night (his leaving do - didn't pay for any drinks supposedly).
He cannot afford to go out tonight as he has been borrowing money from our accounts just to get to work.
He says "FFS, I'm 28 not 38"
(No, you're not 15 either!)
Doesn't get the marriage/family thing at all.
He says his friend is going to buy him drinks tonight - so more debt he'll be in then

I need to be free of him. There are far more bad times than there are good.
Councilling would be a waste of time and money.

I just don't know where to start as I can't see him leaving unless I physically push him out the door!

Will ring tax credits now...

Seems as if it would almost cover his half of the bills
Would be tight though. But that's without maintenance from him so maybe we'd be ok.

So, where do I go from here? Can't do much this side of Christmas. I can't have a grown-up conversation with him so how do we discuss him moving out?

Appreciate that it's difficult. Is the house in your name? If it's in joint names it's going to be harder to get him out if he won't go (and of course he will refuse to go as he thinks he's entitled to live off you now that you;re married). But once you haved told him that the marriage is over and you want him out, you could try separating your lives as much as possible ie don't give him any money, don't cook for him or do his laundry etc.

Unfortunately it's in both of our names. I remember the Estate Agent suggesting I put it in my name only "just in case" especially as it was my Father who put the deposit down. I wish I had now

He does the cooking anyway. The money thing is awkward as he puts half into the bills ever month so he thinks he is entitled to take it back out again if he wants to.
I won't be lending him money out of my account again.
Half of me thinks it'll all be better when he starts his new job. Financially we will be much better off but I don't think it will solve all our problems. It's obviously not a good idea to stay together just because of money.
I will stop doing his washing, that's for sure.

Suppose I'd better tell him tonight. Although I doubt he'll take me seriously.

If I wait until after Christmas, I'll change my mind again. Got to do it now

Oh fruit this is not how its supposed to be is it?

I'm similar to you in quite a few ways, I'm a cm, work ft, got 2 dc's (mine are girls), got married in sept, been with dh for about 8yrs, in debt etc

Only difference is that my DH is not a selfish idiot and knows my job is a ft job and not like being a sahm! My DH sorts the car seats, fills my car with petrol, buys me flowers, empties and fills the dishwasher whenever he gets chance, baths dd2 every night and helps dd1 with her homework, we both enjoy spending time together and are both really looking forward to sharing our first christmas as a married couple (this year is the first time we have ever brought each other a christmas present) and we can't wait to spend some time as a family. I'm so for you that you're not looking forward to it too but this is not your fault, it's his for being so selfish!

We have had a few fallings out since the wedding, getting married doesn't instantly take away the stress of life in general or magic away your faults and I think once you're married you do look at things differently and think I'm not putting up with that for the next 60 years and you both have to work on laying the ground rules so the foundations are solid imo. Could this be what is going on with you or do you really not love him anymore?

If he respected your job, would you want to stay with him?
If you had no money worries would you want him going out as much as he does?

Blimey LoveMyGirls, we're like mirror images of each other bar the husband thing!

If we had no money worries, I still wouldn't want him going out so much.

I'm not sure how I feel about him anymore. He's worn me down so much I just don't know. Saying I don't love him anymore seems like an over-reaction but I'm not sure I really do. I just don't get those feelings when he walks in the door. Just "oh great, he's back, I wonder what he'll do/say to piss me off tonight"

I just wish we never got married but it was planned whilst I was pregnant with DS2 so I thought hormones were getting the better of me. I actually called the wedding off at one point, when a lot had already been paid for. Told my Mum but nobody else. Then I changed my mind again.
I just wish I'd just listened to my gut feeling. Most of me was feeling embarrassed because so much had been spent and thought we could work it out.

He will never ever change, I know he won't.

Lovemygirls - you have a wonderful husband, I'm very

I've just remembered, as he's going out tonight, I won't be able to talk to him. Got to wait another day

I feel so stupid for getting married

If I were you (which is easy for me to say because I'm not so feel free to tell me to shove it) I would wait until after xmas, I would make xmas as lovely as you possibly can for your boys, are you having any time off work? Try to plan things as a family if you can, walks in the woods, snuggles on the sofa with a film etc? Then in the new year I would write a list of pro's and con's and if I still felt I wanted him out I would tell him to go, say you just want some space for a few days see how you feel after a few days then a week then a month then so on once you have been apart for 6 months you can start to think about long term plans. At the moment it's all too close and raw, things could change after 2 weeks or 2 motnhs of being apart but without any time to think who knows how it will pan out? He may spend a month away from you and spend the whole time kicking himself and he might want to prove to you how amazing he can be as a husband but without having that time apart how will you know?

I once kicked dh out (long time ago) usually we would spend one night apart and I would be on the phone begging him to ocme home and I would apologise, this time though I didn't ring him at all and when he rang me I would say I didn't want to talk and i didn't want to see him, after 3 days he realised I meant it and he came back on my terms, maybe that would work with your dh? If he doesn't think you mean it then maybe it's time for him to realise you do mean it?

No one is perfect and we all make mistakes.

You're not stupid for marrying him x

Thank you, it means a lot
I was going to wait until after Christmas but I hate all this pretending. I can't snuggle with him on the sofa because it makes him want to have sex and I really don't want to.
I try and stay well away tbh!

I doubt things will change as I've felt like this for a very long time, just always had an excuse to blame myself until now.

If you feel so strongly maybe you could ask him to go to his mums for christmas, he sounds close to his family?

Btw we did have counselling, our relationship has taken a lot of work at times but we have both wanted it to work, we couldn't be apart but argued a lot when together so we went to see if we could learn how to communicate better and it did work, was harder to start with for a while but I'm so glad we went. Maybe you could have a break for a bit and then have counselling whilst not living together at least then you will know you tried your best? If you have grown apart and theres no way back then it's nobodys fault but regardless of if you stay together you will always have to communicate because of your dc's so it makes sense to try counselling.

Yes, councelling is an option but he is so set in his ways, I doubt very much anybody could make him change his ways. If he thinks his best friend is wrong about him then I'm not sure he will believe a stranger.

I think we'd get on a lot better if we weren't together.