Am I testing...I just don't know

[gonnabehappy]

I have this afternoon asked him to leave. We have had another dreadful weekend (my fault) and it is not fair on boys.

Taking them out - no idea what to expect when we get home. Don't even know what I want to find when we get home.

How do you work out what you really want? How do I know if I am 'testing' him (after giving him a crap time over weekend). How do I impose it when I am not sure. I just need some space and to go to bed without make up on.

Go to bed without make up? Why can't you do that now?

Gonna, did you have any time apart after he left OW or did he come straight back to marital home ?

He came straight back - he had been staying at his mothers 40 miles away. It was the week of bad snow and I said he could stay here (nearer to work) rather than travel. He never moved out.

I wear makeup to bed so I don't feel too bad. His OW was younger (20 years) brighter had no children and plenty f time to be a gym bunny. I can't compete on any level.

It was my fault because it only takes something little to set me off and I cry and make him feel terrible. Yes, I know this is to be expected but it has been a two or three times weekly for 10 months now. It has got worse recently. I have stopped ADs and I think I am going over all the stuff I did not feel before. I could not cope with before at all. At least this time I am functioning, making tea for boys etc. Last time, as in when I knew first and before ADs I just stayed in bed.

He is here now. He has said nothing about moving out or anything I have said today. The boys are here. I so want to sleep alone again tonight and am trying to think how to sort that.

I have buggered this up a treat. I am so fucking messed. Everyone, boys family friends etc think things are so stable and sorted now. I have pretended for months and am running out.

well if you're sure you want it over for good,think you'll have to pack his stuff up yourself. kick him out. (who does the house belong to?}

Joint house - no I am NOT sure I want it over for good. Not at all. I don't know what I want. And yes people have asked me, I just don't know. I think I want it to work, I just can't see how.

IT
IS
NOT
YOUR
FAULT!!!!!

How can you possibly "just get over it"? You can't just decide to feel better, or we'd all feel fabulous. Realistically, do you believe anyone who isn't happy is a naughty lazy person who isn't trying hard enough? Do you hate your children when they "fail"? Or are you the only person who this rule applies to? Cut yourself some slack. You need help, not self flagellation. You deserve no worse than any human being going through a hard time. Human beings are allowed not to be perfect.

You will never be her, but you are a much nicer person. She looks nice because she puts herself first, and she's not unhappy because she has no conscience. You put your family and your boys first and then, heartbreakingly, you hate yourself for not being able to give even more. You're like a car crash victim blaming yourself for being in the road when some bugger jumped the lights. The driver may feel terrible about it, but you're the one left with the (invisible) injury for a long long time after. It is NOT your fault.

Oh, and put your face to bed with cleanser, toner, moisturiser, not with makeup, or you'll do your skin no good at all. Just like the rest of it, covering up doesn't help in the long term. Address the problem, not appearances.

I think Gonna you have to work on yourself before you can work on your marriage IYSWIM.

You can't compare yourself to the OW - there is never a level playing field in affairs. In my case the OW was a right minger complete with tattoos, foul mouth etc - in fact she was everything I am not and everything my DH detests in women which was why he went with her - she was part of his self destruction and a reflection of his self esteem and all he thought he deserved. He is absolutely revolted by her now and can't think what possessed him (neither can anyone else) but we have come to the conclusion that he was attracted to how she made him feel (but that wore off pretty quickly).

Get yourself some counselling first and then maybe for both of you. It might be worth telling your H that you cannot work on the marriage atm and that the best you can manage is being civilised. My therapist reckoned the only time I was truly happy and "secure" was when I was on my own with my 1st DS ie no man in my life. I wasn't convinced I could make my marriage work no matter how much I loved my DH because the pain was too much to bear but she said if I left to be on my own (with DC) I would be running away and not dealing with my own issues. It's not easy and I still can't believe he left me and the 4DSs for THAT woman because she was so vile and I kept comparing myself to her, what did she have that I didn't etc ?

And I make sure I go out fully made up in case I should bump into her (never actually seen or met her) - before I could leave the house made up or not. I have hugh self-esteem issues (not helped by the affair) and so does my DH. I have made the decision and my DH agrees that I am not going to work much now (just a couple of mornings a week if the business can stand it) as I am not mentally fit or capable (my therapist didn't want me work at all - she thought I was bordering on psychotic from the stress of it all) and also if you make yourself busy all the time you are avoiding dealing with things in your head - sometimes you have to stop and stare.

Anyway what I am trying to say is maybe your should say to your H - I cannot deal with this and we both need to take a step back, if he can go and stay somewhere to give you some breathing space even better. I am going to try and take myself off somewhere in the New Year (maybe a health farm - Forest Mere is quite near here ). My old boss paid for me to go to Henlow Grange with his wife once as I was very stressed (alcoholic 1st H and DS1 was diagnosed with autism) and it was lovely (paid for the best rooms as well .

Good luck.

Counting thank you for sharing your story. I know how it hurts. I will try and get some space. I have done the being civilized - everyone including him just thinks everything is Ok.

Am crying while typing. So sorry you have gone through this too. I have to work I have done so little over past couple of years and it is catching up with me big time. I certainly can't afford to take a year out, financially or career wise. I just feel so lousy. He is sitting here asking me why I am crying. I have nothing left to say to him.

Have you tried www.beyondaffairs.com website, I keep looking at it whenever I feel low or angry or sad or despondent. One of the things they say about crying so you don't get "stuck" which is what I think you are atm - is setting a time limit on it eg say right I've cried for 10 minutes that's it and then do something else even if it's make a cup of tea. It's quite useful in it's coping stratagies (sp?) eg not getting "stuck", moving beyond the pain, get angry (but stay out of jail) - BTW did you read the rumour that Tiger Wood's wife was actually chasing him with a golf club because of his alleged affair , made me laugh and I told my DH that he got off lightly with a punch !

Give it a try - it's certainly helped me over the weeks.

It is a good site, I have her book too and it is inspiring.

Trouble is, and there is no getting away from this. He had the choice; between me and boys and her and a new life/family. He choose her. Whatever he says or does now nothing can change that. I am second best in every way. She changed her mind (after I told her to fuck off when she asked me, yes me, how best to build a relationship with our boys. I will always feel that she finally realized it would not be smooth and easy and hence changed her mind.

I don't kow if my husband blames me for ruining his relationship but I blame myself. He was really happy for those few days when he thought they would be together.

Do you see why I feel guilty all the time? I feel like I have ruined his life be leaving trapped with me.

He does have a choice too you know and he has made the decision to be with you and the boys. My H left me and my 4 boys too and yes it hurts when I think back to when he left and how vile he was to me (and to the boys indirectly too). But we have made the decision to give our marriage a chance because we deserve it and the boys deserve it. There are times when I am upset and he hates it because he knows he caused it and whenever the boys panic about him not being home, it brings it all back to him.

He wants to forget about it and move on and I am sure your H does too. Why have you come off the ADs when they were helping (my sister is on ADs and ends up going back on them everytime she tries and weans herself off) - with what you are dealing with, surely it is better to stay on them longer until things improve at home. Get your H to look at the site - there's an article on there about what H's have to do to help their spouses get through the pain of it all. It sounds like your H is depressed too, my H is - we are both in a fagile state and we both recognise it and make allowances for each other. We are both hoping Christmas will be a relaxing time - with no pressure of the business etc. We are both very tired too - a family with lots of boys is tiring !

I know about the boys!!

I came of the ADs because I felt that they interfered with my abilities to concentrate - needed for work. Also I was hoping without the numbing effect I might find some real love for my husband again. I do not want to go back on them. I took them to make life OK for the boys, I can do that now without them.

I have asked him to sleep downstairs again tonight. He is fed up. We have not talked. He tried to hug me when I cried reading your message but I just don't have any energy for it now. I am too tired.

I ought him a lot of books etc to try and help him understand what I needed without me nagging. He admitted today he did not really read them. Could not be bothered I guess. I also printed stuff of sites - not sure I used BAN site for this but used a lot from Frank Gunzberg that I found helpful. Think I have tried this one too much now. Yes, he is depressed and he has been for a while - even perhaps before the affair. But he will not seek help at all. It is up to him.

Thank you for talking to me, I know it is hard to be patient when someone is so negative but I am very lonely. It is good to feel as though someone cares.

Im so sorry your going through this. What he has put you through is just so horrible Noone can Make the decision for you but it sounds like you really need a break from him. You should never feel you have to 'compete' for him he's no prize! He's a cheater, he has hurt you incredibly deeply you deserve more never never never feel ''GUILTY'' for ''TRAPPING HIM'' you are a decent woman who has faithfully loved him and given him the precious gifts of his children! He shud thank his lucky stars you are even trying to rebuild the life and love he so carelessly tore to shredds. He is very very lucky to have a women who would even try. NEVER FORGET THAT!!

Second night of sleeping alone. He is really peed off but I feel so much better. It seems to relive stress/discomfort. I feel mean. But I think I need this 'gap'. Thanks fr support and advice. On another thread there is a comment about attention/seeking.. wanting sympathy. I think that is what I want(ed) too. So special thanks for bearing with me. Myabe I will get my head clear enough to take some advice. Can anyone tell me success stories of counselling (IC, husband will not come to CC)?

Counting - what has it done for you?

Annie - that is what i would write to someone else! It felt like a slap round the face but in a very good way, thanks.

Pooh, I am not sure he feels lucky. He feels pilloried I think! At least I will know I tried to the limits of my abilities to keep my family together though.

Oh bother - I can't seem to remember to do this name changing thing. I am making a real hash of this. If I did not need you guys so much at the moment I would disappear. useless.

Gonna - I have to ask, are you REALLY sure you want to be with him. From what you say, it seems like he is a constant reminder that you feel crap about yourself. And you say you are happier when you are sleeping alone... are you being honest with yourself? Nobody would blame you if this was a dealbreaker for your relationship - you do not HAVE to make things right if you are going to sacrifice yourself to do it.

Also -you say she changed her mind when she realised how hard it would be looking after the boys. That says a lot about her and what she really though of your H, including how deep her feelings for him were. Why you feel guilty about ruining his chances with her I don't know - but she was 20 years younger than him and statistically would probably have left him after a bit anyway, when the bloom of the affair wore off. The whole thing was a fantasy, hence the fact that when reality (your children) intruded, she ran for it.

You can't compare yourself to her. You are what you are. Embrace that. If he wants to go, that's his choice. You have managed without him before and you will again. You are not worthless without him, as his attitude and feelings to you do not define your worth. So you need to work on being stronger and thinking 'you know what, I don't care what he does, He has chosen to be here and not on his own (which he could have done, waiting for her to change her mind again)' And don't wear make-up in bed or you will look like a hag in no time as it's very bad for your skin

I just don't know what I want. I know what the boys want though. I also know what he wants - he wants everything to be back to normal. But it isn't, and what i thought was normal and good was actually really bad. Bad enough for a loving dad to do this to his family. I just don't know.

Gonna, I found counselling (at Relate) very helpful but I really think if you are going to mend your marriage then your H has to get on board and go to counselling with you as a couple to find out what went wrong in the marriage, his true feelings and your true feelings. If he genuinely wants to repair the damage then he has to be prepared to do whatever it takes and if that involves going to Relate together then so be it.

Me and my H must have spent over £500 + on counselling and believe me, we have got money problems (H was gambling probably £500 a week + when on self-destruct mode ). But the bigger picture mattered to us both, for our sake and the DC. We both knew we had to throw everything at our marriage to repair the damage and to ensure it never happened again. I had a lot of faults too, I wasn't completely blameless.

Initially I made the Relate appointment for myself on the recommendation of the solicitor as I wsa in such a state. I told H I was going and he was a bit and I told him it was for me and me alone and he could go and f* himself (he was with OW at the time). Anyway I think the thought that I meant business and had been to solicitor made him "sit up and take note" and by the time the appointment came around the following week, he had left her and wanted to make a go of our marriage.

I am very surprised if your H really wants to make a go of the marriage that he is reluctant to counselling and I would probably be feeling like you if my H hadn't wanted to do and still wants to do everything possible to make things better for me and the DC.

A slap round the face? Oh dear, I was going for a gentle shake by the shoulders I really do think you're a nice person and it is such a shame to see your self-esteem in your boots.

It's quite early still to know what you really want, you know. Besides, by the sound of it, whatever his words, your H's actions aren't showing that he is fully back in the marriage yet. Like others have said, if he was that committed he would go to counselling or anything else you wanted. Maybe he thinks it is just as simple as "she wouldn't leave her husband so I went back to the wife", and you (understandably) trying to keep everything smooth hasn't given him a reason to look at it otherwise. In a sense, coming to the end of YOUR tether may be a good thing for HIM. Well, an important wake-up call for him, anyway. Remains to be seen whether he is willing and/or able to face the consequences and do what it takes. For now, you aren't in a position to know whether your marriage is, or indeed ought to be, a long-term goer. Not a comfortable position to be in, but it won't last forever. Things will become clearer. Meanwhile do what you need to make yourself feel better. Tough if he doesn't like it. It's your turn.

The thing is, I think people who have affairs don't realise how good normal was until they lose it - it's part of the selfishness and sense of entitlement. Did he really think he'd be happy with someone who wasn't much more than a silly girl, or would he have been constantly looking over his shoulder, reaching for the grecian 2000 and manopausal leather trousers in order to keep her interest as he hit late middle age?

I have had many conversations with H about what was wrong before, because to my mind something must have been to make him do what he did. But he can't think of a thing, other than that he found her attractive but boring (and who doesn't find other people attractive from time to time) but she made it obvious she was available and the secrecy / newness was flattering and exciting, just at a time when I was concentrating on moving house and getting the kids settled and us sorted. That was it, but if a similar situation came along again he'd know it was a load of rubbish and wouldn't be anywhere near worth the pain. PS She was 5 years younger and 2 sizes thinner than me but that didn't stop her having loads of stretchmarks and a baggy tum - you may be surprised at how your H now sees her in the cold light of day.

Might be worth having a frank conversation about how he now views her, both physically and mentally, particularly in light of the fact that she didn't have the strength of character to face up to your dcs. Counselling may be a big help - there's a thread elsewhere about relate that explains the process and how the counsellor may make him examine questions like that, and what it said about her.

abedelia has a very good point. He may now be feeling very manipulated by the OW. My H looks back at it in the colid light of day and it horrifies him that he couldn't see the "game" she was playing and how she "reeled" him in. He feels stupid, played, manipulated, weakwilled etc. He feels a completed nob that he nearly threw away his family and lost everything for that woman and you know, maybe your H might just feel the same.

Absolutely. For someone who is very clever in most aspects of his life, my H really fell for some rubbish and part of his depression after was the knowledge that he'd been really very stupid in all his actions, particularly taking her at her word despite having some reservations about some of the things she was saying - he only believed what fitted with his view of her at the time and ignored the warning signs. As I said, it's fantasy and ten to one the relationship your H believed he had at the time never existed, as he now realises.

Seriously though, don't undervalue what you have to offer - the kind of long term, deep love you have with someone; one that keeps you going when times are hard is priceless compared to a quick spike of high emotion with someone who turns out to be far from what they first appeared. And they all do - can you think of a single ex boyfriend who turned out to be the fantastic bloke you originally thought you'd met? He is with you because he has learned the value of you, albeit the hard way. That's why he came back. And if he didn't know it would be hard work then, he does now but he is still there. Value that and work with it.

I think he does feel rubbish about the choices he made - at least that is what he says. He says he really wants to make me happy, I just can't shake off the feeling that it is guilt talking because he is a good man. I know he is horrified by the pain he has caused all round, and yes he knows that I realize that our marriage was not perfect for him to want to do this in the first place.

I have asked him to be more specific about what he means by trying and explained that each time he says this I feel as though he is going to try and love me and that each time it goes wrong I feel even less lovable.

I think he is beginning to see that we are playing with fire now. Running out of chances/choices.

I will not accept this kind of panicky - I want to try, I love you, type talk any more. It has to be backed up with a firm commitment about what we will do (and yes I mentioned counselling again although in a fleeting way, I hope it might make him think it would be worth a try).

I feel stronger now than I have for a while, of course this might not last. But I am beginning to see that I might possibly be better without him in my life. I think he is realizing this and it just might cause him to think a bit harder.

Sofa again tonight, and then I am at work (away overnight) for couple of days. I might even stretch it until Friday and stay away two nights. I think some space for him to think is as vital as space for me to try and get my head together.

I don't know if I can do this all again. I feel as though I am ready to split up and don't want to go around the same circle. But he is the father of my children and I have loved him (faults and all!) for a long while. I just don't know.

gonna, you have had really brilliant advice from some wise ladies who have been through this and felt the horrible pain and confusion

I would just like to add one thing

it is ok if you don't want to carry on

you can give up any time you like

just because you started to try and rebuild your relationship with him, doesn't mean you have to follow it through at your own personal cost

had you considered actually physically separating for a while ? (not just couch-sleeping)

you just seem terribly overwhelmed and his presence in your home doesn't appear to be helping

just a thought