Brainwashing within an abusive relationship.

[poshsinglemum]

Has anyone experienced this?

By brainwashing I mean giving up your values and interests in favour of his. This normally happens subtely.
Is gas lighting a form of brainwashing.
Are partners with npd more likely to brainwash their partners?
Are certain types pof women more likely to be brainwashed?
Why do us women put up with the abuse?
Why is it so hard to leave?
How can we guard against future abusive situations?

I have writen before about my abusive relationship and I am still finding it hard to forgive myself for staying. I think that I was brainwashed as I took on a lot of his ideals as my own were squashed and ridicules. I feel like such a mug.

sorry about errors. Am knackered!

I've experienced this, but have no answers, I'm afraid. It was a long, long time ago. Just one bit of advice for you.

The abuse is still continuing, because you're doing it to yourself now. STOP beating yourself up over it. Put it down to experience, draw a line underneath it and be kinder to yourself. I really, really don't mean to sound harsh, so apologise if I come across that way.

hear hear lemony

posh, forgive yourself and make sure you don't make the same mistake again, love

i guess i can forgive myself as the nature of abuse is to keep us hooked!

have you read the books that are commonly recommended for this kinda stuff on MN, posh ?

can't remember the titles (just check out any abuse thread, there are plenty )

they certainly seem to be very helpful in convincing people who have been the victim of EA and gaslighting etc that they were masterfully played by very clever individuals

never anything to blame yourself for, except to accept that is what happened and learn lessons for the future

Posh, you can move on and reclaim your own life. I really recommend reading about abusers, seeing the patterns, and realising how predictable they all are. They try it with everyone. Lundy Bancroft's Why Do They Do That was a real eyeopener for me. After slogging through it and seeing my ex in virtually every chapter, I stopped taking his behaviour personally. Of course, he was gone physically from my life at that point, which made it easier.

By 'personally' I mean that I realised there was nothing about me as an individual that could have controlled or changed anything he did or said, at any time. He was on auto pilot in many ways. So I was off the hook. Abusers all have the same script, say the same lines, do the same things, in predictable patterns. All of them, with small individual variations. Books can help because you can see it wasn't you, it was him. And you can use the information to spot the next one in your life and avoid him.

A lot of them have NPD or BPD. Some are sociopaths or even psychopaths. None of them respect boundaries -- they don't know where they stop and other people begin.

Gaslighting and ruining your self esteem happen because they are emotional vacuums. They can only exist in a relationship if they are sucking the life out of their partner. They can't live with someone on an equal footing.

there ya go

Excellent post math. As well as Lundy's book I can highly recommend Power and Control by Sandra Horley.

Yes, yes and yes to your original questions.

Definitely read the Lundy Bancroft book or Living with the Dominator by Pat Craven (Bancroft is better). Also speak to Women's Aid and find out if they do the Freedom Programme in your area. I think this could really help you.

Jump on the 'anyone else with an NPD ex' thread and read it through. I ignored it for ages because underneath it all I knew it was true. When I did it took me several days and made me see things more clearly.

And, if you want, feel like a mug for a little bit. But decide when you're going to stop - next Monday? Then you can move on and start getting him out of your head.

But it certainly isn't you, it was all him, him, him (probably just like the relationship itself was).

this all sounds very interesting on the books. did anyone find they helped a lot?

I am glad I came across this thread, thanks for the books suggestions that I may very well pinch.

Without wanting to hijack the thread, what is the consensus on a woman/person that seems to attract this type of man/partner?

It is just that my three major XP's have all been master manipulators in different ways, but with each of them I basically gave up my life and friends to immerse myself in them and their friends and families. Each of them also seriously threatened me with his suicide if I left and as a healthcare worker (inc. mental health in the later years) I couldn't have that on my conscience. 2 of them did swallow a load of pills and had to be admitted to hospital after I tried to leave.

Does that reflect more on me or them?! Would the books recommended above really help?

Again, sorry for the hijack posh

Yes, I think this happened to me too.

I too find it hard to forgive myself and am very wary of getting close to anyone again.

I've often thought about getting the Lundy Bancroft book and never quite got round to it. Think I will - it's been recommended on here so many times.

Sorry - don't want to hijack but what is 'gaslighting'?

Vengefulkitty: My bet would be that you have (for various reasons, probably starting in childhood) an overactive conscience which means you think that other people's happiness and wellbeing is your responsibility. Unfortunately, this is something abusers can almost smell and so they target you. Maybe some books on assertiveness/self esteem might help you kick the next one through the nearest window?
GOod luck.

Thanks SGB.

I will certainly have to look into getting some books. I cannot repeat this pattern again. I have more than just myself to worry about now. I can't bear the thought of DS growing up around that kind of behaviour

mmrred - if you google "gaslighting", it will give you a good explanation - it's basically someone doing things to try to make you think you're going mad.

Vengeful Kitty - Like you, I've been in several relationships with emotionally unavailable men. My last relationship was with someone who was emotionally available and it opened my eyes to how a relationship really could be. Unfortunately, he died and even when I get past the grief and everything, I think I'll pass on getting involved with anyone else as I don't think I could stand the fall-out of making a mistake and getting involved with someone who was emotionally unavailable.

SGB That's a really, really good explanation. Quite often, people with an overactive conscience are the child of an alcoholic parent/s or the child of a parent with a serious illness. What's you've said has condensed "Healing the Child Within" into a nutshell!

The french government has just opened the debate on this and the aim is to pass a new law against "psychological abuse" which would become a criminal offense.

They propose to define it as:

repetitive behavior or words that lead to alteration in judgement in the victim; financial pressure, sexual harassment, blackmail, swearing, be it public or private and that isolates the victim from his/her professional, social or family environment.

It was announced by the prime minister on the 25th november.
He said: « La création de ce délit va permettre de prendre en compte les situations les plus sournoises, ces situations qui ne laissent pas de traces à l??il nu, mais qui mutilent l?être intérieur des victimes »

This translates into: creating this new category of criminal offense would allow to prosecute the abuse that does not leave a visible scar but mutilates the core of the victim's being.

He hopes parliament will take this to the vote during the next session.

Tis about time. This is definitely something that would well be worth enforcing through european institutions as well.

At the moment though, it still all wishful thinking.

You've given me a bit of a lightbulb moment, SGB. I had a very loving childhood, and my parents have a great relationship, so I thought that getting involved with ex was just bad luck. But I do have a bit of a saviour complex and you've helped me to see that part of what attracted me to ex was the way he was damaged. I first met him when I was doing something to help him, so he was able to read me loud and clear.

And I still get sucked into doing things because I feel sorry for him (eg. yesterday I stopped claiming child tax credits so he could claim instead). He then responds by treating me worse (ranting/threatening behaviour today).

The odd thing is that I do actually have good self-esteem. I just feel sorry for people who've been less lucky in life. I'll have to learn to reign in my tendency to ride to the rescue.

It seems so obvious now! I kind of half-knew it, but what you said helped to clarify it.

Which leads me to muse - on the threads discussing DV (including EA) I see a lot of very helpful responses from people who've undergone this experience. So are quite a few of you like me, eager to rush in and help when it seems needed? And sometimes, therefore, used by the wrong man?

I do think the world needs more altruism, not less, but people with these tendencies need to develop good instincts for self-protection too.

The world definitely needs more altruism, for sure.

I think that women are brought up to nurture and in those with an overactive conscience, takes them a bit too far in that direction. For my part, I was never taught to self-protect by my parents, which I think was some of my problem.

As the child of a very ill parent, I was not guided emotionally as well as I could have been. In fact, it would border on neglect. By the time my parents did get round to it, it was a little too late.

I've now got further in the process through reading books and doing a lot of work on myself - but it's taken me donkey's years!

Interesting, lemony! I've got that eldest child over-conscientious thing going on.

I'm the eldest too - on top of all that! Sob, sob.....

Another eldest child! Any others out there?

Five posts ago I should have said "rein" not reign. How very Freudian...

I am an only child.

I remember feeling like I wasn't loved as a child. Parents divorced at 3yo and both worked long hours. I now have this urgent need to feel wanted, loved and needed. I recognise that much.

And the thing is, with all the XP's that I immersed myself in, they gave me what seemed like all of their being. They would open up to me and tell me their whole lives including how emotional they were.

It wasn't until it became controlling, I realised I had no friends and that I was letting them get away with things that no partner should, that I started to see what was going on.

All three still claim, to this day, that they love me and want me back. And I am so scared of being alone that I have gone back before.

And the worst thing is, I am the first one to recognise things like this in others and urge them to get out!

ARGH!

It's My Life Now (Paperback)
by Meg Kennedy Dugan (Author), i found useful "survivors know that leaving is not the end of the nightmare -- it is the beginning of an often difficult and challenging journey toward healing and happiness. It?s My Life Now offers readers the practical guidance, emotional reassurance, and psychological awareness that survivors of relationship abuse and domestic violence need to heal and reclaim their lives after leaving their abusers. "

it has some CBT type exercises in it too.
including addressing How can we guard against future abusive situations?

tho lundy bancroft is more cerebral/analytical ...

agree with lemony - "be kinder to yourself" .

i found group sessions with a fammily therapist on dealing with being divorced/separated useful too - being in a group of women dealing with vastly different - on the surface - but strangely similar situations... women who also wanted to answer those questions and move on...