Brainwashing within an abusive relationship.

[poshsinglemum]

Has anyone experienced this?

By brainwashing I mean giving up your values and interests in favour of his. This normally happens subtely.
Is gas lighting a form of brainwashing.
Are partners with npd more likely to brainwash their partners?
Are certain types pof women more likely to be brainwashed?
Why do us women put up with the abuse?
Why is it so hard to leave?
How can we guard against future abusive situations?

I have writen before about my abusive relationship and I am still finding it hard to forgive myself for staying. I think that I was brainwashed as I took on a lot of his ideals as my own were squashed and ridicules. I feel like such a mug.

Janos, my self confidence has plummeted too. Today's not been great and I've been thinking that I can't imagine ever having another relationship, I just can't imagine anyone wanting to be with me after how H has made me feel. I don't feel attractive or desirable in the slightest right now even though I'm well aware it's just conditioning and not rational. It's such a tough pattern of thought to change.

I often feel like that too tiredofrain. My friend was saying last night how gorgeous I am and a lovely person (she ould if she was a bloke, LOL). And yet inside I do not feel that at all. It's like on some level, the abuse is carrying on because I'm still carrying round 'his' opinion of me.

I don't know how you feel, but broadly speaking I like being on my own at the moment. I enjoy being able to do my own thing, not tread on eggshells, not have to answer to anyone else - apart my from lovely DS obviously! Of course there are moments of extreme loneliness but I feel that is preferable to being with my XP.

However underlying that is a basic lack of trust in men and I feel that is to do with XP. I'm also aware logically that it's not 'right' to feel that way but it goes very deep.

I'm also aware that when I get into/have been in a relationship, perhaps because of my conditioning, I almost unconciously start putting their needs first and that is unhealthy and the wrong thing to do. I know I need to break that pattern and assert myself.

Something else I've also realised is that I've nbever, ever approached a man first. They always, always approach me.

Thinking about a recent situation in particular, I've been involved with a man on a very casual basis. He more or less bullied his way into my life (I DO NOT mean he forced me into anything at all). It strikes me that there has been a similar pattern in all relationships I've had, with a more forceful personality imposing themselves on me and that's not healthy either. It's all been about what they want.

What a lot of waffle - I'm in a introspective mood this weekend!

Janos- my toxic ex bullied his way into my life too. It's frightening.

Hope you all feel better soon.

I think they often do PSM. I remember my XP (years ago) saying that he would have found a way to 'get' me 'whatever'. At the time I was really flattered, now it just sounds creepy.

The bloke I'm referring to above is someone I keep at arms length. Oddly enough, we were having a conversation and he mentioned an ex who accused him of bullying his way into her life in really full on fashion then pissing off.

Oddly enough that's one of the things that got me thinking.

Oh, and did I mention that it was ODD?

I do think these arseholes are just great at sensing vulnerability. They have an almost animal instinct for it.

Funnily enough I met XP when I was feeling vulnerable.

When I think back to it Janos, my ex followed me around but I didn't really fancy him. I remember he begged me to have sex with him.

When I broke up with him the first time (because there was no spark) he was absolutely distraught. I remember the tears but he somehow remained my friend and he turned up in the pub whenever I was there etc. He just couldn't move on.
Eventually he wormed hi sway back into my life.

The hardest thing is I have to take responsibility for my actions and I just don't get myself at all.

Funny you should say that PSM cos I didn't fancy my XP that much to start with either.

He persisted and I allowed myself to be taken in, (even now I am unsure whether I was ever in love with him or not) because hey look - I had a proper boyfriend! Validation! I wasn't a complete fuck up!

Yes it takes a while to learn that men shouldn't validate us. It's deeply ingrained in our psyche.

I actually realise now that my ex tried to devalue me if that makes sense?

I agree PSM and I think SGB often makes that point when she posts. It's a gard one to get over because it is driven home more or less constantly from birth...the idea that women need a man to look after them.

Of course we don't at all, and that perception is changing a lot now which is good.

The devaluation thing does make absolute sense. I often talk to my mum about XP. She distinctly remembers him singing my praises, how I was cleverer than him, better looking and so forth. We do speculate on whether he felt I needed to be brought down or kept under control for those reasons, because he was threatened by it or whatever.

Does any of that ring true for you PSM?

Sometimes would tell me how amazing I was blah de blah (but never more amazing than him mind). I remember when I got better a-level results than him he called me a bitch when a real boyfriend would have been proud. He was jealous.
I remember feeling shocked that he called me that and I really wanted to end it then but I didn't know how.

Straweberry I there's such a difference between self esteem on the one hand and malignant optimism or a misplaced sense of pride that makes someone keep on trying at a 'realtionship' and refusing to accept 'defeat'.

I really recommend a women's self defence course and then a martial arts course just for women if anyone feels their self esteem is in the toilet. Martial arts is all about being conscious of respect, for yourself and for others. It can teach a lot subliminally about your boundaries it's not about karate chopping anyone who looks crooked at you and make you conscious of defence and self protection while still being open to new experiences. Plus you won't feel vulnerable, physically, afterwards.

I have the It's My Life Now book too, would recommend it to anyone has hasn't yet picked it up.

I am eldest of 3 girls, with twso toxic parents: adepressive self obsessed mother and an alcoholic abusive father (cut father out of my life). I was shouldered with responsibility too early (emotional and household), and was defiantely brought up to be a caretaker type. To be compliant and put my needs last,to speak when spoken to, etc.

I too am very happy on my own right now, just love having my own space. I am in no rush to bring another man into my life right now, and when I did I would be very cautious and it would have to be someone pretty amazing. Now and again I feel lonely, but I am trying to counteract that by building up my friendships and family relationships a bit more.

I want to look into some counselling and courses, has anyone else done this??

I think you are being really tough on yourself PSM.

I've seen a lot of your other posts and your XP sounds like a really nasty fucker. That's really and truly not your fault.

It's not my fault he was a fucker but it was my fault that I stayed with the fucker I am a bit self-pitying atm.

Well, I was with mine for nearly 10 years and had a child with him!

I was lucky to have (and still do have) a lot of support from my family. That's what helped me the most (plus ADs) and I think it's crucial.

What sort of support network have you got in place PSM?

Coming back to the OP, if you have extricated yourself from an abusive relationship, give yourself a pat on the back and feel proud that you are a survivor.

Don't waste any more time - life is short, this is the real thing not the dress rehearsal. Life can be fabulous, and even little, mundane things, can give you immense pleasure when the dark, oppressive cloud of an unhappy relationship has been lifted from your view.

Please, look forward. Do not feel guilty or regretful. Analyse what happened in the relationship if you feel the need - and to spot the warning signs in future relationships - but don't feel that this is how it always has to be. There are good and kind men out there, and if you don't happen to meet one, better a life as a happy single woman than a cowed and miserable punchbag.

And if, down the line, you decide to embark on another relationship, spend lots of time shopping around - we spent more time looking around houses and test driving cars before we make a purchase, and yet we often rush headlong into relationships.

Good luck with your future life.

Mum and dad are great sometimes but manipulative and controlling at other times.

I really apprechiate their support but we don't have an easy relationship. They are a bit toxic, conditional parenting types.

Yes the future is a good place.

Yes, I wish every single day that my sister would see that the future could be a good place for herself, and most of all for her impressionable children, without her freak, but unfortunately it seems she can't.

There have been several false dawns when she's managed to extricate herself from his control and mainipulation for varying periods of time and given us hope to believe that she can see it that ther can be a life beyond him but sadly, she has just taken him back again - for the umpeenth time.

So, we're here asking outselves yet again, when is this waking nightmare that we find ourselves in ever going to end...?

strawberry- have you confronted the freak as a family?
I know that it's not supposed to be the family's business but I wish that my parents had told my ex to bugger off even if I'd hated them at the time. Mabe you shou;d point out to said twat that his behaviour is unaacceptable?

Can I just ask why being an eldest child is so relevant and prevalent among us? Is it because we feel more responsible? The eldest child is supposed to take care of everyone-right?

I have been thinking that my ex's mum was especially involved in supporting his abusive behaviour. She used to join him in slagging off my parents, critising my career choices and generally spouting bollocks. It makes me livid actually even though I did really attached to her. When I broke up with my ex I also broke up with his mum but I can see now how influential she was!

I also feel that she eroded my belief systems and replaced them as her own so she was very involved in what went on. The cow!

ATA, just going back tou your Sunday night post. Lots of WA branches do local courses on The Freedom Programme which gets excellent reviews and is free. Try and do it before you go back to work, as I now can't go because of the double whammy of work and childcare.

I have a bizarre family and grew up in a toxic, alcholic, NPD family. My ex definitely has some sort of PD, I echo all that idealising and contempt stuff.

So my GP completely by chance has spent the last two years working with Women's Aid on a project raising domestic abuse with GPs. He referred me to a specialist WA worker and she was really great and also put me in touch with a local collective of therapists (it's a bit hippy where I live). I've had an assessment and am seeing a therapist on Friday - feel free to ask me about it if you want to know any more.

Partly I've just turned 40 and I don't want to spend anymore time feeling bad about myself or regretting the past. On a more practical note, I've got quite bad PTSD from my repressed memories about what my ex did to me coming back and it's making life a bit of a struggle.

I also didn't fancy my ex, probably part of the reason sex was such a struggle yet I still went on to have two children with him. How can we all be so similar?

The problem is it doesn't matter how unacceptable we find his behaviour. She knows precisely how unacceptable his behaviour is herself and is quite happy to regail us for hours and hours on end with tales galore about exactly how unacceptable hi behaviour is when she's feeling strong enough to get rid of him and is there promising us that she's never going back for more of the same.

We've told him to bog off and it makes no difference and will never make a difference even if we tell him 10 times a day every day. Sh gets very defensive of him when she is actually with him and would chose him over us any day of the week.

No, unfortunately until such times as she develops the ability to be able to tell him to bog off for good and really mean it, he knows he can carry on as he pleases because for all her so-called shows of strength and puting her foot down, he knows he has the upper hand really and that although she may reach her limit and have the balls to sling him out from time to time, he will work his evil magic and soon have her dancing to his tune again.

She can be strong initially when she slings him out but the problem comes when her initial resolve wears off and she starts feeling lost without him. Then the old "he's the best man I've ever had, I love him so much and you can't just switch your feelings off and if he didn't have these problems he'd be the ideal man for me blah blah blah" lines start coming out. He gets on the 'phone to her for a few 4 hour calls late into the night with all the weeping and sorries and all the good work done by family in trying to support her and help her to stay strong goes out of the window because this freak seem to know all the right buttons to press to get her back on side.

It's like a triumph of evil over good every time and it's shattering.

At the end of the day it's not always that easy to blame him because he only does what he does because she makes it so damn easy for him to do it.

She's most recently had 2 months apart from him - 2 months!!!! and has had sooo much help and practical and emotional support from family in that time and seemed to be so strong but after all that he's worked his evil magic and she's had him back yet again because, unbelieveably, yet again he's managed to convince her that he's had counselling and changed this time. Funny, he's had counselling before too and she said he even manipulated the counsellor! He didn't change after that and he won't have changed this time either. He's a psycho who she should never have in her home with her children.

So please tell me, someone, anyone, what can you do...?

Oh gosh- that sounds terrible.

My friend is in a very similar situation and has an abusive partner. She has done the freedom programme, knows what abuse is but keeps going back for more. He threatened to kill her once, she left him then he started with the repentance, I love you bollocks and she was sucked back in. I despair.

I guess this is proof of how persuasive these fuckers are.

I hope that your sister snaps out of it.