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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DP's bombshell

146 replies

AuntieMaggie · 22/11/2009 15:35

DP has just dropped a bombshell... he slept with his female friend about 8 months ago. Now around this time we argued because I said he was spending too much time with her, didn't understand why he didn't want me to go shopping in the village she lived and found doodles of her name in his briefcase.

Well, I just feel numb. Don't feel angry, upset or anything to be honest.

Is this normal or am I just a mug?

He says he wanted to be honest with me as we've been tlaking about getting married. All day I've just been going thrugh the motions and not really sure what I should be doing. DP is going out later which I can't wait for because he keeps apologising.

Not really sure why I'm telling you or what I'm expecting you to say!

OP posts:
WhenwillIfeelnormal · 25/11/2009 10:44

Think ladylush's advice is great - couples counselling would help, I agree.

It is especially hurtful and cruel if infidelity happens when you're already having a rough time. That was the case with my H too, although in my case, it was a series of business setbacks that had laid my esteem low. It was one of the biggest stumbling blocks for me in my recovery, as I know I couldn't have kicked him (or anyone for that matter) when he was down. I think this comes down to selfishness on their part - and some escapism too from the gloom. One of the things I've learned is that infidelity is always rooted in selfishness and is very often about immature escapism.

Aunt Maggie, what you're saying is that this man has had only a fortnight's break from serial monogamy since he was 17. This reinforces to me that he just isn't ready to commit to being faithful to you for the rest of his life. It might help to ask him how he feels about never sleeping with another woman again for the rest of his life - and watch his face carefully. Never having another romance again, never being wooed again? This might just induce a painful reality check.

When I said the mother issues were perhaps a red herring, what I actually mean is that it doesn't sound as though he's got anger issues towards women. I do think he's been used to being cossetted though and I suspect he did feel a bit abandoned when his family upped sticks. But that's the point isn't it? When ever his cossetting is withdrawn or diluted because of illness or just a low patch in your relationship, he seeks it from elsewhere. Might be worth finding out what needs the two women appeared to be meeting - it's often not about sex, but about adoration and respect.

I understand what you mean about his image amongst your friends as a superhuman carer - and also how he presents as brilliant Dad material. What people on the outside see is so different to the reality - and believe me, it is so different when they are your own children - for good and bad. Before we had children, our friends would have said that my H would have been the better parent - he loved kids and was broody for years in fact. I on the other hand, found children irritating. Babies did nothing for me.

When we had our own though, I fell in love with them and found them fascinating. Found patience I didn't know I had and it was the biggest surprise ever to me, my H and our families and friends. My H was and is a great Dad on the whole - but having your own kids full time, with the attendant sleepless nights and 24 hour demands is so different to looking after other kids occasionally.

The selfishness that caused my H to have an affair many years later, manifested itself in his early fathering, to some extent - and the lack of domestic support he gave me at home when the house was wrecked by having two small children in it. What I'm saying is - if someone had judged me before I had children, my "Mum" credentials wouldn't have been favourable, but my H's would. The reality was very different.

You might be the same. You're dead right that you reasoned that he was a grown man and could iron his own bloody shirts - that was always my perspective too. Except that now, as has often happened in recent times - I might be rushing to meet a work deadline and I find that H has ironed all my work shirts without asking, so as to reduce my stress. And if he's up against it, I'll do his. We help each other out and are both kind to one another now. The problem is, if the nurturing is all one way.

It sounds a bit as though your DP can't cope with putting his needs on hold for a while, when a situation calls for complete selflessness, e.g. when you were very ill, feeling down etc. Having children means suppressing your own needs too - and if he has a need to be cossetted, those needs are never going to be more unfulfilled than during the infant years.

And if he's got low self esteem issues anyway - and sees himself as a bit geeky - he's also particularly vulnerable to people who will tell him he's Mr. Wonderful.

AuntieMaggie · 25/11/2009 11:51

I want to have my own counselling first to get my head around it and try to make some sense of what I'm feeling and what I want.

We will have couples counselling too - one thing I want to make sure is that if this is the end for us that it's done in a civil way and if it's not that this is really dealt with and not ignored.

He is a bit geeky and to be honest can be a bit of a loner. I do worry about that sometimes.

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 25/11/2009 16:57

"I do worry about that sometimes."

Why do you worry about that? You are not his mother. Or are you together because you are a nurturing person and he replaced his mother with you? It might be worth having a look at what a caretaker personality can expect in relationships, and what you might represent to someone like your P. A mummy's boy needs a mummy. Women are all mummies to them. And 9 out of 10 of them hate their mothers for emasculating them, while continuing to look for mummy substitutes everywhere. And they are not capable of selflessness, because they feel they are the ones who should be looked after. When you're not filling their needs, they go elsewhere.

The mother who turns her son into a mummy's boy has not done a very good job of meeting her son's emotional needs, and has seriously stunted his growth to adulthood, for her own selfish and ego-driven reasons.

AuntieMaggie · 26/11/2009 09:47

"It might help to ask him how he feels about never sleeping with another woman again for the rest of his life - and watch his face carefully." I did and he looked at me as if I was a loon and said he knew he was never going to have sex with anyone else and that was fine with him. I then mentioned the romance thing and he laughed and said "you aren't going to romance me anymore - that'll make a change!".

I got my book anyway, and read most of it last night. As suggested in there I'm not going to make any rash decisions and we're going to work through this together - whether that means at the end of it we're together or we go our separate ways is something I haven't decided and I think it's important for me to understand why this happened before I make that decision.

No I'm not that much of a nuturing person so him.

As for domestic servicing - I'm not really sure what he's getting out of this at the moment!

OP posts:
WhenwillIfeelnormal · 26/11/2009 11:33

Maggie - that book is brilliant isn't it? Hopefully then, you will have seen that if you're going to move on from this, either apart or together, you've got to understand why it happened. I agree with you - and can see in my own situation too, that if I'd ended my marriage on discovery day or in the days following it, I would never have learned what I know now. If you do part, understanding affairs and relationship problems are beneficial to future relationships - the wonderful poster Aussieng is one of the best advocates for this.

If you decide to stay together, or while you are in the "holding phase" of coming to a decision, you also need understanding of how and why - and you'll find the chapters in the book about building the new relationship - and affair-proofing it, particularly helpful. One bit of advice re. the book - ask him to read it too. My H did - and found it painful (as did I) but insightful.

I agree that domestic servicing doesn't sound like it applies to you at all. By the sounds of things, you've always treated him quite rightly as an adult male who should play an equal part in domestic tasks. That shouldn't change at all in any future relationship.

However, you might want to consider what I was saying earlier. People living separate lives and with unresolved resentment often get stuck in a habit of not being very kind to eachother. I don't mean being unkind as such - just an absence of small gestures that would make the other person's life easier. That can become a habit and it is corrosive to a relationship.

I also wanted to pick up on something he said when you had your conversation. That joke about "so what's new?" about you romancing him, I think masks something here. But it works both ways. You will have seen from the book that betrayers often believe they are not "getting enough" from their partner - when in fact, they are not "giving enough."

This really helped us in our recovery and sometimes it's helpful to see where this starts and ends. It's often circular in nature too. My H and I agree that he wasn't "getting enough" desire, respect and admiration from me before his affair. But we now agree that this started because he wasn't "giving enough" to warrant those things. Sometimes when people aren't getting, they stop giving - and sometimes it starts with people not giving, so they stop getting iyswim.

One of the things that helps understanding is to look at your entire relationship - and discuss catalytic events and memories. Don't just focus on the affair period - the whole relationship builds the picture. Over 24 years, my H and I had a lot to get through with this one! It did really help though.

Maggie - I also wanted to say that while you're coming to your decision, don't be afraid to post on here. You are the only one who knows this man and you are therefore able to see things in him that we cannot.

AuntieMaggie · 26/11/2009 13:56

He saw me reading the book last night and said he'd read it after me without me even prompting him.

"People living separate lives and with unresolved resentment often get stuck in a habit of not being very kind to eachother. I don't mean being unkind as such - just an absence of small gestures that would make the other person's life easier. That can become a habit and it is corrosive to a relationship." Sounds like us to be honest. It's so easy with our stressful jobs to just come home and do our own thing, and this is too something that we need to work on if we are to stay together.

Yeah funny how he thought I was talking about romance between us and not about new romance with someone else. I thought he was getting at the fact that there is no romance because of things like not closing the bathroom door etc but now you mention it it ties in with being kind to each other doesn't it? I also recognise the cycle idea which is so silly because all it takes is one small gesture and you're out of that loop.

The more I think about it and the more I read I am convinced that we didn't deal with the texting incident properly and that combined with other things have led us here. The most interesting thing I've read in the book so far is how good people in good relationships can have affairs.

Thank you for your advice - I know there are plenty of people that think that I should just get rid of him but I think he is a good man who has done something he regrets. (He certainly has nothing against people with downs which I almost think is worse than him having an affair).

OP posts:
WhenwillIfeelnormal · 26/11/2009 14:00

(He certainly has nothing against people with downs which I almost think is worse than him having an affair).

Sorry Maggie, what does this mean?

dittany · 26/11/2009 15:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AuntieMaggie · 26/11/2009 16:13

There's another thread about someone whose husband is against people with downs but has been asked to be god parent to a baby with downs.

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 26/11/2009 19:50

at the idea of being for or against Downs? Do they choose to have Downs?

My exH indulged in a paid phone sex service way back when I was going through a rough patch suffering 3 mcs in a row. He was all apologetic when I confronted him with the phone bill. It would never happen again... And it didn't. He had real sex the next time he cheated. And after that it was porn while we were going through counselling.

There are patterns in relationships that must be identified and owned and stopped. The process of doing this is called growing up. You can't grow someone else up. They have to do it for themselves.

AuntieMaggie · 27/11/2009 09:56

My thoughts exactly on the downs mathanxiety.

I completely agree that he has to grow up for himself. There are other things in his life that he has to accept as part of growing up. And he has shown steps in doing that on his own.

I'm not trying to make him love me - if he really doesn't want to be with me he can leave and he knows that.

Maybe he will do it again I don't know, but I know that rather than just kicking him out I need to understand why this has happened and work through it properly. I don't want to be the victim of this kind of thing again either with him or someone else. It's not going to be easy, but you know what if I wasn't prepared to work on things I wouldn't be with him in the first place.

I know I'm not responsible for what he did - I have no doubt there. There have been times when I've been away with the girls and I could've quite easily had sex with someone but I didn't.

I know some of you will think I'm naive for even considering staying with him, but I need to be sure that he is the type to do it again if I'm going to leave him. I'm not afraid of being on my own or of him leaving - please don't think of me as the hysterical weak female begging him to stay because I'm not.

OP posts:
ladylush · 27/11/2009 10:27

AM I don't think you're being weak at all. It is sensible to try to work through what has happened and try to understand it - especially as there is a pattern of infidelity.
If you don't mind me saying, you come across as an emotionally detached person. I could be way off the mark though. The reason I say this is because it resonates with me. I have always been self-contained/tend to not rely on others emotionally. I think some men find this hard/that they are not needed. Not feeling needed can be unnerving for them and they then look elsewhere for validation. It was something that came up when my h and I had couple counselling.

ladylush · 27/11/2009 10:27

By pattern I meant past partners.

AuntieMaggie · 27/11/2009 12:13

Yes I can be quite emotionally detached - wanting more affection than I display in some instances. I describe myself as someone who thinks too much about things - always second guessing what I'm doing and what others might think about it so I hold back instead of doing what I feel like doing sometimes.

Probably part of my rubbish childhood and family relations.

The only people I feel completely at ease with are children/babies and a few close friends.

I've been lucky enough to meet someone recently who is quite similar to me and we've become good friends. I had a long talk with her last night about my situation and she talked a lot of sense.

I guess we're both (me and P) are both loners in a way, but he's more sensitive than I am probably due to being brought up by a bunch of women (his mother has loads of sisters).

OP posts:
dittany · 27/11/2009 12:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HappyWoman · 27/11/2009 18:54

he may not leave because he actually wants to stay and made amends. Of course what he has done is terrible but what if he also now realises that and wants to change and find the reason for his behavior?
All too often we see woman who have fallen for another man and it takes them a long time to come to terms with that - it is something they never thought they could do.

At least he has been honest in telling you - focus on the positive but keep one eye on him - he may do it again but he may not.

ladylush · 27/11/2009 20:44

If he is prepared to do some work (counselling) and grow up a bit, there is a chance things can work. He has to be honest with you and himself about why he cheated. I think on some level my h cheated to punish me for not appearing to want/need him enough. Risky game to play.

mathanxiety · 27/11/2009 23:15

Agree with ladylush here. And do you enjoy the feeling of waiting for the other shoe to drop, keeping an eye on him, being his keeper? To a certain degree, you are living with a bottomless pit here. How much can you throw into it to try to fill it?

AuntieMaggie · 29/11/2009 20:57

Thank you ladies.

We have just come back from a weekend away which was arranged before this mess. It wasn't perfect but it did give us a chance to talk, especially after a couple of drinks.

I don't think he wants to leave. He says he doesn't and I believe him. Life would be easier for him if he did leave so why would he stay if he didn't want to? There was also a row back when the cheating was going on when I told him not to come back - he could have left then, he was out with her and other friends that night, but he came home to me to sort things out.

There were also a few occasions at that time when he was due to see her that he cancelled and arranged to do thing with me instead - one being a weekend he took me away for. I think he was genuinely confused for a while, like he says, and that he did decide he wanted to be with me.

OP posts:
dittany · 29/11/2009 21:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ilovepiccolina · 29/11/2009 21:14

apart from this, you have been happy together. It sounds as if you want to stay with him, & you believe his reason for confessing now (clean slate).

Personally I would give him another chance, while making it very clear that if he ever let you down again, then you would expect him to leave you with the house.

AuntieMaggie · 29/11/2009 21:22

I don't keep talking to him about him wanting to leave. It would be easier for him financially, domestically and relationship wise to leave. You keep talking as if it's easy for him to be here but it isn't.

He had an "emotional affair" with her for a couple of months and had sex with her twice. Yes he still cheated but I don't think that he is a serial cheat and I don't think he would do it again. I think the lines of a friendship got blurred as happens in many male-female friendships. The more I read on here and hear from other people I think in terms of affairs it wasn't that bad. You'll probably shoot me down for that.

No there weren't any unfaithful people in my family and don't understand why you think I'm following a script.

OP posts:
HappyWoman · 30/11/2009 07:51

it sounds as if you are doing well.
Dittany - you can never know if he is going to cheat again. If any of us thought that we would not even think about continuing to have a relationship with a man again.

He may have many years of faithfulness and then 'stray' again. Who knows?

What the op needs to do is to decide whether she too can put this behind her and not let this destroy her trust completly. If she can do that she should be able to have a good relationship with him.

Either way op take your time to think about what you want and need and know that this is not your doing.
Even if you are following a 'script' you are not at fault here.

AuntieMaggie · 30/11/2009 10:07

I'm doing ok. I'm waiting for my appointment to come through for counselling and I'm going to ask either my counsellor does some couples counselling with us or she recommends someone. In the meantime we keep talking. I'm honest with him when he asks if I'm ok and I'm mulling over something, and he has been very open and honest with me. At the weekend he opened up about the whole thing and I got a bit more background to their friendship and his best mate (the three of them went to school together). I don't really want to go into details here but I now have a very different opinion of her and should have never taken her niceness to me at face value. They will never be friends again, regardless of anything I say due to what she has said and done since he finished it.

I've said it before that most people think I'm stupid for considering staying with him, but IMO if I could really give up that easily then our relationship didn't mean that much to me in the first place. And if there is the slightest chance that we could get through this and be happy together for the rest of our lives then I don't want to throw that away. I've made mistakes and there have been times when I could have very easily crossed the line the way he did with one of my male friends, so I understand how easy it is. But that doesn't mean I don't think he's wrong for doing it.

We need to find out why it happened - I need to know for my own sanity.

I've spoken to a couple of people that know him and us, people that I know I can count on to be honest with me and tell me if they think he'd do it again and the consensus is that he just made a stupid mistake. I'm not letting them make the decision for me, but its good to get their opinion.

Besides how can I be sure that I won't meet someone who sweeps me off my feet and I end up cheating on him. I don't because none of us know what's around the corner.

OP posts:
ladylush · 30/11/2009 11:09

It's your relationship so try not to dwell on whether people think you are stupid for staying with him. Your pride has suffered but months down the line (assuming things are good between you) you won't be bothered what other people think.