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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Am i the most selfish person ever? very long sorry

98 replies

amy64 · 11/11/2009 12:04

Right here goes. Think you are all going to hate me.
I have been with my dh since I was 15 am now 45. Quite an achievement. Half of that time he has worked away. We have 2 dcs 14 and 16 and I practically bought them up myself. He really didnt have much of a bond with them when they were smaller and it used to be harder when he was here when he was away sometimes.
He really loves me though, is secure and dependable but we have had a lot of bickering and arguments in the past. He can really talk down to me sometimes and the kids. We are very different people to when we met. He is a plodder, I am outgoing and extrovert. I lost my dad 18 months ago while he was relatively young and now think lifes too short, go for it.
I thought we were ok, got on with it but in the past couple of years have been looking more forward to him going away than coming home, much as I dont want to admit it.
Well, the inevitable has happened, I have met some one else, it is like a light has switched on in my life. He is in the same boat as me, has been with someone 25 years, not married, kids grown and gone, is leaving her to be one his own to show commitment to me, says he would wait years for me to make the right decision. I so want to be with him. We have been seeing each other, yes it is so wrong, but I have been so unhappy, have lost a stone in weight, can't sleep with the guilt and the sadness. Do I throw it all away to be with him? I have everything to lose, lovely house, dh that loves me. the kids in a family unit, but I am not happy and I know that I am making everyone else unhappy. If it weren't for the dcs I would tell dh tomorrow, but am so worried about splitting my family just because I want someone else.
I got myself in such a state I went to the Drs and got counselling. It helps, but whereas I thought they would try to help keep the family together, it seems to come outh the other way.
If I stay in 2 years time will I regret it and think why did I let someone like that go?
If i go, do then I throw away 30 years.but will I always resent dh. While I am typing this the phone just rang and my dh is now going away to work for 2 weeks and told me he loved me. I just did not feel the same back, but suppose I always thought I did until I met this other person. We are so alike and in my brave moments I am prepared to risk it all. The right thing to do would be to be on my own and sort myself out, but I dont want to upset the kids any more than I have to. I get through it knowing he is away and we have the place to ourselves. I think if dh was home all the time I would crack up.
Sorry it is so long.Just never ever thought this would be me. Have never been on my own since I was at school and perhaps thats the problem.
An affair, as I know it is, is so utterly wrong but it has happened. What a mess my life is, i am an idiot.

OP posts:
veryconfusedandupset · 11/11/2009 12:18

Amy - there are quite a few of us on here who have had this experience or similar. How long have you been involved with OM? and how long has he been talking of moving out to show committment to you?

I know all the feelings you are talking about but perhaps the first step is to try and establish whether the new relationship is likely to be one that will work out even if you do decide to go with it.

amy64 · 11/11/2009 12:40

I have been involved with the om since March. He actually told me in May that he would leave to be with me, but I said no way am I splitting my family up because at the time I never thought in a millon years I would.
In the summer we both tried to break it off, said we owed our partners more than this, but we were both devastated, i think he tex me first and off we went again.
Om works away as well would be on my own a lot but am used to that, quite like it.
Dh is starting to talk about quitting working away and that thought fills me with dread. Om is away now, phones regularly, is actively looking for place to rent. Says he is 100 per cent committed. I know actions speak louder than words and I am not going to make a rush decision, but I know that I am not the person dh thinks I am, and when he tells me he loves me I feel sick with guilt.
I do think if I go with om and it all goes wrong, then I have lost everything, yes but that would be my own fault. It is the dcs I worry about even though they are getting older. Once he gets his own place, we will be able to spend more time together and see from there.
You say there are other people in this situation? Do you know of anyone who actually made the break?

OP posts:
veryconfusedandupset · 11/11/2009 13:01

No, can't think of anyone who made the break who posts on here regularly, but there might be. There has been a thread where people have said they began their relationships with present partners when with someone else - and there are some happy endings there.

If you don't get a lot of flack over this the usual advice that is given is to both move out but live apart for a while to be sure it is what you both want, the idea being that if your marriage is unhappy you should bring it to an end and then decide what to do next.

I am very cautious about all this because when I started my affair in very similar circumstances to yours my OM wrote me poems, said he couldn't live without me etc. etc. and then finished with me, just as I'd begun to have very strong feelings for him - which has left my life a bit of a mess at present.

There is one lady who posts very useful advice who made the decision to leave, told her dh and then was let down by OM on the very day they were supposed to leave to be together. All this has made me feel very jaded about affairs turning out happily. The statistics apparently are that very few of them turn into lasting relationships.

I have decided to concentrate on my marriage for the next 6 months and then decide if I want to stay or go, though I must say that since relationship with X ended life at home has been much improved and can't see myself going if things carry on like this - and yet 6 months ago I just wanted to give up on it.

Suspect the fact that you have been with DH for so long makes this very difficult for you, I married later than you and had had my heart broken a number of times - I just thought that things could not hurt so much when you are 50ish as they do at 15, I was very wrong about that.

I'm sure that later on today all the posters who usually give good relationship advice will be along to say constructive things to you - and I'll seee if I can add anything then. Might be an idea to think about a couple of sessions of counselling - that way you can talk your head off about it all and might be able to see the answer. When OM ditched me I did that just so I could have a good cry and a moan without getting someone who might spill the beans involved. Keep strong.

diddl · 11/11/2009 13:08

Is it just because it is new & exciting?

Might this end up as your marriage after time?

Can you see youself growing old with this man?

piratecat · 11/11/2009 13:08

Well my mum did for one. I was 14, sis was 10. She didn't go looking, but our dad worked abroad, and they drifted apart. Mum left dad. Pretty devastating allround.

amy64 · 11/11/2009 13:13

Thanks, have been to three counselling sessions so far and talked and talked. He is 50 himself and has said that there is no way he would mess me around, would be with me for the rest of his days, would not split a family unless he was totally committed. He has a 25 year relationship which he said same as me, he would have probably plodded on with and did not realise how unhappy he was til he met me, so he has a lot to lose as well.
Serves me right, but i feel like I will never be happy again.

OP posts:
amy64 · 11/11/2009 13:17

I ask myself if it is because it is new and exciting, but as soon as I see him I jut want to be with him. I don't feel like I want to grow old with dh at the moment tho, even thoough he has not really done anything wrong.
Piratecat your post makes me sad. i did not go looking but I worry so much about my dcs.

OP posts:
JodieO · 11/11/2009 13:19

You can't stay with someone just for the kids sake as it really doesn't benefit them to see an unhappy relationship. They need to learn about loving relationships and that doesn't always mean staying with one person forever. Would you want for your dc to be in an unhappy relationship? I think you need to make the most out of your life as we only get one chance; not to be selfish but realistic and to realise that your needs matter too.

If you stay for the children, for some ideal that rarely, truely exists then what happens when they leave home? You are stuck in an unhappy place with someone that you don't love. You owe yourself more than that.

For what it's worth, I left my husband over a year ago now and have been divorced since May this year. We were together for 10 years and had 3 children, 7, 6 and 2 years old. It was an abusive relationship and I'm glad I finally left. My children and happier and I'm happier. Best decision I made.

amy64 · 11/11/2009 13:23

Thanks Jodie. The thing is my dh hasn't really done anything drastically wrong, I just feel like I have outgrown him, that sounds awful. We have argued a lot in the past but obviously there have been good times. I suppose I have never known any different.
I am glad you are happy now. Good for you!

OP posts:
WhenwillIfeelnormal · 11/11/2009 14:03

Amy - I for one am not going to flame you. I remember your posts on another thread and the thing I admired most about you then was your honesty - that until OM came along, you had thought that you were "happy". You are not doing that "re-writing history" thing that so many people in affairs do.

It looks like an unholy mess at the moment, but I sense what you're looking for is clarity.

A few things strike me from your posts. You mention your Father's death and the "live for today" feelings it left you with, but I suspect there are other issues surrounding his death that as yet are unacknowledged. Deaths of parents are recognised as a catalyst for affairs, so one of the first things I'm going to advise is that you consider some bereavement counselling.

The second thing is for you to see some unpleasant facts about your situation. I know you will baulk at the notion of "playing", but please consider this and bear with me. At the moment, you are idealising OM, which is understandable and of course, he is playing to win here. He loves you, wants you and is therefore playing a "blinder" in that he is exerting no pressure, appears to understand your turmoil etc.

However, the truth here is that you cannot know the real him yet - it is entirely possible that he will turn out to be selfish, lazy, manipulative and a whole host of other things, once life settles down, the crisis is over and he has "won".
You mention that you believe yourself to be selfish, but please see that OM is also being very selfish here. The unselfish thing to have done in his position would have been to acknowledge the attraction between you - and withdrawn completely - what he did in effect was to deliver a death knell to a marriage that needed shaking up, but was not irrepairable.

Very often, the reasons that relationships borne out of affairs do not survive is because the very behaviour that caused the affair to happen (deceit, selfishness, abuse of spouse) emerge again in the new relationship.

The other issue is that at the moment, your husband is not playing to win because he has no idea he is in a competition. This is a grossly unfair, un-level playing field. However, never under-estimate the corrosive damage you are doing to him - it is insidious and IS affecting him in a myriad of ways. He probably knows something is wrong, since he knows you very well. He can't think what it is, so he's trying to find ways to "fix it" (i.e. giving up working away etc.). But he is suffering, believe me.

The most noble thing you could ever do in this situation would be to tell your husband that you are having such major doubts about your marriage - and that these have been created in the main, by the arrival of the other man. However, as a pragmatist, I understand that to you, that could mean burning your boats before you are ready. So at the very least, can you tell your H that you have grave doubts about the marriage and are thinking of separating? This at least gives him the opportunity to realise how imperilled he is - and to make some changes?

In fairness to him, while you are letting him make those changes, could you insist on a "no contact" rule with the OM? If he loves you, he will understand this and will wait for your decision. This will be very hard, I know - and for a while you will grieve his loss, but you really do need to see how much of this marriage is salvageable before you wave it farewell. If you will bear with me a little longer with the competition analogy - the OM has had his time to pitch for you - now it is your husband's. If you find that some feelings for H really are returning, then at some point I would tell him about this affair. Secrets destroy intimacy and for your marriage to reach its true potential, real honesty is needed, if not at first, then later.

I imagine that for you, prior to OM turning up, all you wished for was that you and your H rediscovered your feelings for eachother and enjoyed a revived relationship now that the children were getting older. The children's welfare is clearly a priority for you and I sense you believe as I do that children want most for their parents to be together and to be happy.

You might therefore get what you wanted in the end - a revitalised marriage and very happy children, but it means being very rational now and very fair to everyone involved.

If after this period of OM being totally out of the picture, you decide that nothing can revive your feelings, then at least you can look back and say you tried to do the right thing, that you made such a life-changing decision after much thought and considerable effort. Your H and the children will still hurt, but will ultimately respect you for the efforts you have made.

Also do bear in mind that very often, female responses to affairs differ - this is not biological but conditioning, I'm afraid. Women often convince themselves that the affair partner is their soul mate and that their marriage must be doomed to failure if they are having an affair. The truth is far more complex - very often women's reasons for affairs are no different to men's. They are in a passably happy marriage, but after so many years together it has got a bit dull. They don't feel adored, desired and respected by their spouse and along comes someone who is offering all that - plus "different" sex. It's no wonder the effect is so enormous, but it doesn't have to mean that the marriage is doomed or that the affair partner is the solution.

roxi09 · 11/11/2009 14:17

WWhat a fantastic post WhenwillI, the last paragraph especially is so true (in my case).
Really good advice there, and the no contact thing really does help to get things straight in your head.
To the OP, if it were me and I thought I would be truly happy with the OM, I would grab the opportunity with both hands. You are at a time in your life when it's ok to be selfish. You have had all the years bringing up your children and although they are still dependant, very soon they will be off and running.
I'd hate to look back and regret staying, life is too short to not be happy.

Lilyloo · 11/11/2009 14:18

What a great post whenwill.

AnyFucker · 11/11/2009 14:25

wwifn "plays" a blinder again...

I have nothing to add to that

NearlySilver · 11/11/2009 15:23

Hi Amy
Another one here who isn't going to hate you. I am on the same journey as you, maybe a few steps ahead but just as uncertain.
With DH since 22 now 49, three teenagers growing up, silver anniversary approaching!

Met MM 18 months ago, had 3 month passionate affair then he woke up in a cold sweat and thought what the hell am I doing? He feels very guilty, says it was just for sex and would never leave DW and DC. Whether his DW would keep him if she knew what had happened is another matter. We have kept in touch and things have sputtered along but are now pretty much at an end as it is going nowhere.

I realised I felt absolutely no guilt, nothing for DH except irritation. So I signed up for counselling and have been going for 2 months now. I realise we have drifted apart and at the moment I have no wish to work on our relationship or get closer to DH. The counselling has revealed years of buried anger and resentment as I tried to make everything okay in the family. DH is not a bad person just a little selfish and devoted to his work and prone to depressive episodes. Somewhere along the way while looking after his needs I lost myself.

MM has taken himself out of the picture to try to give me up. I know he still cares but have to be realistic we don't have a future together. I am weighing up what happens next.

I have told DH we have a problem and we are planning to go to Relate in the next week or two to start working out what happens. He is desperate for me to say all is well and back to normal.

I hope they will have a magic wand to wave that will make me fall back in love with him for everybody's sake, but have a sinking feeling that it may not be that easy. I am facing the possibility that I may need to leave him and be on my own.

If I could turn back time I would still have taken the actions I did. I have come alive again after years in a state of numb resignation and although it is very frightening and I can't see ahead very far I would rather have the chance to be happy again whether with DH or someone else.

I think having taken a wrong turn having the affair I am trying now to work my way back to a place of honesty and integrity where I am not lying to anybody, especially myself. If anyone wants to hate me for that that is their choice.

I think this is the most helpful thread I have read since I started reading mumsnet, thanks WWIFN, inspiring post!

AnyFucker · 11/11/2009 15:36

ns, you are pretty inspiring yourself !

NearlySilver · 11/11/2009 15:53

That is a surprise! Thank you.
I have been giving myself a hard time for a year for being a selfish bitch and not thinking of DW or DH sooner.

My counsellor has been on at me to ease up on the self flagellation and look at my own needs. I think I have lost the habit of looking after myself.

What do you think OP? Do you look after yourself or put the family first all the time? This is the price for neglecting what you need too.

veryconfusedandupset · 11/11/2009 15:54

I am so pleased that MN seems to have become a more tolerant place since August, when I got a load of abuse for posting on a similar matter.

It is so easy to fantasise about life with the OM and although it sounds very cold one thing that helped me was making lists of pros and cons - becuase you will not just be going off to a brand new lovely life with OM if you go but will have all his baggage and your own. You will accumulate his relations ( who may not be too impressed) there will be his children, your children coming and going. Work, money problems possibly and all the other stuff which might make the new relationship very easy. At one point I did think small flat with OM would be great and stress free - but even with that there were 3 dogs that were non negotiable whatever else came and went.

It probably isn't right to compare your marriage bnow with the fantasy of life with OM to make decision because firstly as has been said, you maybe looking at OM with rose tinted glasses. Also people tend to withdraw from marriages when an EMA starts up and so your current situation will be less engaged, enthusiastic and committed than usual. There is lots of useful stuff on the internet about styles of love and styles of attachment which can help you work out if you are compatable with OM too.

veryconfusedandupset · 11/11/2009 15:55

oops - "not very easy"

countingto10 · 11/11/2009 16:10

I think we all make the mistaqke of looking to other people to make us happy whether is our DH, OM or in my H's case, OW. If there is one thing I have learnt from the last six months in my life (DH left me for OW but came back) is that nobody can make me happy but myself and my DH has learnt that nobody can make him happy but himself. We have both had to work on ourselves and in turn our marriage together.

DH is "self flagellating" atm - the guilt has really hit him etc but we are be totally honest with each other now in every respect and hopefully heading towards an extremely happy future together.

Amy listen to what Whenwill says, she has some very wise words. Try and seperate yourself from OM if you can. My DH said he said everything to OW that she wanted to hear because she was making him feel so good about himself (admiration, respect etc), he had no real emotional attachment to her which was apparent from the moment I found out, no grief for her when he left etc, just pleased to be away from her. She met a need in him at the time though this sounds very callous when put in black and white.

Give yourself time and space.

Good luck.

NearlySilver · 11/11/2009 16:12

Good point VCAU. When I think about a future life with MM I recognize that he is probably impossible to live with and his DW is possibly as fed up with him as I am with DH right now. He is emotionally unavailable both to her and to me, and prefers to go off on his own to get "space" from family. He has accepted a lot of psychological help from me over the last year, and has become a lot more aware of his own emotional state. I think this is more than typical male oblivion as he has had a fairly crappy arly life and doesn't communicate well about feelings. In the long run that would drive me bonkers and I don't think it is my mission to heal him. Also he has now a track record as a cheater! So not a great catch ironically.

However I am probably just talking myself out of love as I can't have him and have to get real over that.
I read somewhere that to fall out of love with someone you have to dwell on their bad points and annoying habits.
Three dogs would put me off, were they his or yours?

AnyFucker · 11/11/2009 16:13

vcau, to be fair, your problems were a little different back then..

countingto10 · 11/11/2009 16:15

BTW OW was married in my H's case - ended her marriage to make way for my H .....

sunshiney · 11/11/2009 16:16

whenwill - got to commend you for that post. OP you're fortunate to see that brilliant advice and food for thought, i have been in something similar which is all over now, and i'm glad to read that post even now.

OP - i don't judge you in the slightest either. It comes over in your post you are trying to do the right thing. many, many people have been in this predicament.

I think you need to give everything you've got to seeing if your marriage can work, because if you leave it for another man and it doesn't work out, how will you feel knowing your family was split up? I think you need to be at the point where you would leave your husband anyway and being alone would be acceptable to you. I think your OM must have no part in your decision to leave your DH.

Break off contact with OM for the time being, give yourself time to think without being swayed by what he has to say.

Give yourself time to realise that your OM is a fallible, normal human being and the grass may well not be greener.

NearlySilver · 11/11/2009 16:18

So sunshiney did you stay or did you go?

sunshiney · 11/11/2009 16:32

i stayed, and every day i see proof i made the right choice.
the speed at which things improved once OM was out the picture was startling.
all the best to you NS

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