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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Am i the most selfish person ever? very long sorry

98 replies

amy64 · 11/11/2009 12:04

Right here goes. Think you are all going to hate me.
I have been with my dh since I was 15 am now 45. Quite an achievement. Half of that time he has worked away. We have 2 dcs 14 and 16 and I practically bought them up myself. He really didnt have much of a bond with them when they were smaller and it used to be harder when he was here when he was away sometimes.
He really loves me though, is secure and dependable but we have had a lot of bickering and arguments in the past. He can really talk down to me sometimes and the kids. We are very different people to when we met. He is a plodder, I am outgoing and extrovert. I lost my dad 18 months ago while he was relatively young and now think lifes too short, go for it.
I thought we were ok, got on with it but in the past couple of years have been looking more forward to him going away than coming home, much as I dont want to admit it.
Well, the inevitable has happened, I have met some one else, it is like a light has switched on in my life. He is in the same boat as me, has been with someone 25 years, not married, kids grown and gone, is leaving her to be one his own to show commitment to me, says he would wait years for me to make the right decision. I so want to be with him. We have been seeing each other, yes it is so wrong, but I have been so unhappy, have lost a stone in weight, can't sleep with the guilt and the sadness. Do I throw it all away to be with him? I have everything to lose, lovely house, dh that loves me. the kids in a family unit, but I am not happy and I know that I am making everyone else unhappy. If it weren't for the dcs I would tell dh tomorrow, but am so worried about splitting my family just because I want someone else.
I got myself in such a state I went to the Drs and got counselling. It helps, but whereas I thought they would try to help keep the family together, it seems to come outh the other way.
If I stay in 2 years time will I regret it and think why did I let someone like that go?
If i go, do then I throw away 30 years.but will I always resent dh. While I am typing this the phone just rang and my dh is now going away to work for 2 weeks and told me he loved me. I just did not feel the same back, but suppose I always thought I did until I met this other person. We are so alike and in my brave moments I am prepared to risk it all. The right thing to do would be to be on my own and sort myself out, but I dont want to upset the kids any more than I have to. I get through it knowing he is away and we have the place to ourselves. I think if dh was home all the time I would crack up.
Sorry it is so long.Just never ever thought this would be me. Have never been on my own since I was at school and perhaps thats the problem.
An affair, as I know it is, is so utterly wrong but it has happened. What a mess my life is, i am an idiot.

OP posts:
Campingqueen · 11/11/2009 23:55

Amy64, put the OM to one side for a moment, and do some thinking about your situation and yourself. Give your feelings for OM time to die down, absolutely no contact, if you see him in the street etc no eye contact nothing. You can't think straight and make decisions with the emotional intensity your are no doubt feeling.

This situation (with OM and being bored in marriage) has not happened overnight there is no quick fixes. It will take sometime to sort out what you want and whether your marriage can be revived.

Have you considered all the possible consequences of leaving your Dh? You owe it to yourself to explore fully whether your relationship with your Dh is in anyway salvageable? Is your Dh aware that you are going to counselling? I think that you both need to go for relationship counselling, maybe individually at first, before going together.

The relationship with the OM is just a symptom of your boredom and possibly a reaction to the death of your father (someone earlier mentioned breavement counselling, it would really help I think)

Yes you have strong feelings for OM and he you, but as many others have said the grasss it not always greener.

Please take the time to carefully consider things from every angle and avoid at all costs rushing into ending your marriage because of OM.

Best of luck x

SolosScrapingUpForXmas · 12/11/2009 00:01

Only read OP.

The grass is not always greener on the other side, but I hope you make the right choices and are happy. Good luck.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 12/11/2009 01:07

Amy, I'm sorry to be the one that says this, but I think from what you are saying, the die is cast.

You are saying that you won't take a break from the OM, won't tell H you are having doubts and certainly won't tell him the truth. You don't believe you will ever feel the "right" feelings for your H. You recognise that it is likely that your H will find out about the OM and that it will be much more hurtful if this emerges later on.

You are saying that the counsellor, much to your surprise appears to be saying "go for it". It would be much to my surprise too, if any counsellor implied this in your situation - I wonder whether you are putting your slant on what you are hearing, or whether you have got a rogue counsellor?

You often say that you can't believe you are in this situation - almost as though this is all happening to someone else. I sense you want someone to come along and tell you it will be alright. Which ever way this situation pans out, there will be enormous pain and hurt - you yourself think that you will never be happy again, now this has happened. But you can try to limit the damage by making some fair and rational decisions now.

I think when you are in the midst of a situation like this, a sort of paralysis sets in and therefore you will do nothing until someone or something forces your hand. Forced decisions of any kind cause more pain - and often aren't the right ones to make.

If I were your counsellor, I wouldn't judge you, but I would try to get you to face up to the responsibilities you face while trying to balance your right to happiness. I would be asking you to list the real consequences of all this - and trying to get you to project the future.

To me, there are two worst case scenarios here. The first is in my view a bit worse then the other because of the shock it will cause, but they are both bloody awful.

The first is that you continue to deny your husband choices, then get rushed into a decision to leave (either by OM's insistence or when your H finds out). You leave and the children are devastated and torn about who they elect to live alongside. Your DCs hate the OM with a passion and refuse to meet him, out of respect for their Dad. You still believe that love conquers all and try to be happy with OM, but the hurt and recriminations get in the way. You start to resent him for the fall-out and start to notice things in him that you are currently blind to. And of course, he is going through the same thing - a devastated partner and kids and all of the above. Eventually, you realise with some clarity that this isn't how it was supposed to be at all....

The second worst case scenario is that you continue seeing the OM, until one of you gets cold feet and breaks it off. You never tell your H about all this and continue with a relationship that is by now much more lacklustre than it was before the affair. The secret lingers over you and you find it impossible to feel anything approaching intimacy with your H. You secretly resent your H for your predicament and wonder all the time "what if?" You are both unhappy in your own ways and other affairs for both of you are now entirely possible. Your children pick up on the simmering resentment and learn some awful lessons about how adults relate when they are married.....

I think you imagine this is how it might be, perhaps not in all its awfulness - and this is paralysing you. But there is a vast middle ground here you know, Amy. If you do nothing but submit to what you see as inevitable, the above scenarios might well happen - and in all probability you are right, you won't ever be happy.

Going for the middle ground (some honesty with your H, a genuine attempt to cease contact with OM) is difficult now, but it actually gives you and everyone else involved (not least your children) the chance of actually being happy in the future. You will feel that having started this all off with a great wrong, you tried your best to avoid the wrong causing more damage than it needed to. This all requires enormous courage and very adult behaviour - and real clarity about the consequences of metaphorically pulling the duvet over your head and hoping it will go away. I'm the same age as you - and I think we all have a moment in life when we have to tell ourselves: "I'm a grown up now - I've got to take responsibility for my choices."

As you can imagine, there are other equally likely scenarios, but only if you do the right thing now.

It could be that this affair provides the wake-up call that both you and OM needed to revitalise your primary relationships. After some pain and much honesty, you find that you have a much richer relationship with your H and your kids benefit enormously.

Or you try very hard to separate your feelings about OM from those towards your H, but despite being honest with your H that your marriage is in peril, you and he are unable to rescue the relationship and you part. OM has made the same efforts in his own relationship and reaches the same conclusion. You get together and you are happy - sorry that your relationship started by deceiving others, but satisfied that you tried to minimise the hurt and damage as much as you could. Your kids know that you tried your best, because you are honest with them - and tell them what happened and why. Your (now ex) H is hurt that he was ever deceived, but grudgingly admits that he got the chance to win you back and that you tried to rescue the marriage.

I understand that this is terrifying - and I sympathise, but if the die really is cast, then all you can do is to start being honest and understand what those choices might mean - and take full responsibility for them.

FWIW, I don't think you've got anything like enough information about your true feelings for OM in order to make this decision, but I also don't think you've got enough information on your true feelings for your H either. Inertia won't bring you that information though, positive action now is far more likely to achieve that.

I really do wish you well.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 12/11/2009 01:47

Amy - just one other thing that you may or may nor have considered. If OM does leave his partner and goes down the hackneyed route of insisting to his partner that no-one else is involved, she won't believe it for a minute. She will get her evidence by hook or by crook and will feel entitled to expose you to your H before you might be ready for that exposure.

Even if he does the decent thing and is honest with her about you, she might have the same reaction.

And of course both your H and his P are currently wondering whether there could be someone else and my money would be on her finding out first.

Finding out from anyone other than your partner makes things immeasurably worse, because the shock is truly debilitating and is akin to post-traumatic disorder, with horrible flashbacks about how this was discovered and deep resentment about being exposed in this way.

You might be sure that you are managing to alleviate suspicions in your DH, but the unknown quantity in all this is the cautiousness or transparency of OM - and the sleuthing abilities of his DP.

Please don't let that happen.

Allets · 12/11/2009 02:08

Whenwill

FABULOUS post. Having been through this myself and come out the other side with an intact marriage, every single word of your post rang true with me.

FWIW, DH and I are happier now than we have ever been. We accept our marriage for what it is. A happy, dependable, loving union. One that I will never, ever risk again in the pursuit of some excitement.

Life is about living well, being honest and good to those closest to you. When I realised my mistake and went from a deceiptful, exciting, tantalising affair back to the reality of my life and accepted it for it what it was, it was like a weight was lifted off my shoulders.

Allets · 12/11/2009 02:16

I should follow that up with the fact that DH found out about the affair. It totally devastated our family.

Destroyed any remaining trust - he wasn't stupid he knew something was going on, so to find out that his instincts had been right after months of asking the question and being told that he was imagining things, was a terrible blow.

Amy - after 30 years with your husband, think of him with kindness and afford him some honesty. You can't sit on the fence on this. Your family deserve better.

I am not remotely judging you, because that would be the pot calling the kettle black. I just think that if you take WW's advice and remove the OM from the picture, and start being honest with your DH, you may remember why you are married to him. Ask yourself this - wouldn't it be lovely to live a truthful life, without the burden of the lies? Ultimately - is this other man worth it?

mrsjammi · 12/11/2009 02:47

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mrsjammi · 12/11/2009 03:10

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amy64 · 12/11/2009 08:51

Thanks so much for all your messages. Mrsjammi am about to take a look into steparenting. Whenwilli those 2 scenarios you describe are truly terrifying.
I feel so bad today have taken day off work, have been awake all night getting myself in a right state.
I think one of my most difficult things is that dh and om both work away often at separate times. I get to spend a lot of time on my own, I go to work though i dont need to. The dc have their own life and are always out and about. The temptation to see om when dh is away is so great I would have to have such willpower.
If we do go about this we will have to do it properly in fairness to our partners and our families. I just got tex from om he is away at the moment and all I want to do is speak to him. We must be the two most horrible people alive to do this to our families.
Allets yes you are right I do owe my dh more than this. God I am confused, i hate myself.

OP posts:
amy64 · 12/11/2009 09:37

Also dont want sex with dh. For a while have had to had a bit to drink before i did. Sounds bloody awful, even before affair, like he just doesnt do it for me anymore.
Never used to be like that, but I just can't sometimes feel like we met so young that is has all just sort of happened and I never really knew what else was out there. Honestly, it has been a couple of years the last couple of years that I can say that I have wanted it to be over as quickly as possible. I don't want to live the rest of my life like that.
I think even then, about 2 years ago I felt restless in my marriage but you sort of get on with it. You have a row, never really sort it out, they go away, come home and it gets sort of forgotten about. But the resentment is still simmering I suppose. Maybe I am just trying to think of everything bad to justify myself.

OP posts:
sunshiney · 12/11/2009 09:38

hi amy64

from your post it seems that you are feeling pretty bad right now - you shouldn't be so hard on yourself. You are not the first person to be in the situation and you won't be the last.
the fact that you are so cut up about it shows you are not a heartless, selfish person.

You just need to be brave and face up to your responsibilities, you need to do the right thing by everyone but that doesn't mean you have no right to happiness.

If you can't face any major decision making at this moment, I feel strongly that it would be helpful if you were to have some time to yourself to get to that point, without speaking to your OM.

Truly if you just send him a message saying something along the lines of you are feeling a bit confused and you need a bit of space for several days or so, what's the harm in that? He's not going to decide to abandon you, and if he did, well, you'd be glad he'd gone.

The path to peace of mind lies in you taking the bull by the horns and proactively making your decisions so that you know you did your best to treat everyone involved with the respect the deserve.

mrsjammi · 12/11/2009 09:49

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amy64 · 12/11/2009 09:50

Yes you are right sunshiney. I am in a right state its so lovely that there are people like you out there.
He tex me and told me he loved me and I said that I felt bit down today, that was all.
He is the one telling me to be sure, says he will back off to give me time to think he loves me that much and he wants me to be so sure and its me saying no please don't go. Its like I am on a path to self destruction.
We are going to have to have serious talk, with honesty, all of the facts, everything. I wish I could look at him and tell him I don't love him but I can't would be so much easier if I could. At the moment I look at dh with guilt and sadness as I just don't feel like I did. And of course the dcs are so important.
I know of someone who has been married for years, had left and moved in with her lover and left her 8 year old dd and 16 yr old ds. She seems happy and don't know what state he marriage was in so it happens, but how do you leave your kids. I could not do that. Yet my kids can sense i am not happy am sure oof it so I am affecting them now.

OP posts:
mrsjammi · 12/11/2009 09:55

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amy64 · 12/11/2009 10:10

thanks mrsjammi, your first line made me smile, first time in a while.
Ok I am not a bad person I suppose, or i would not be in such a state.
Yes OM would be away a lot but when the dcs are couple years older there would be times when I could go with him. But yes I would be on my own a lot especially to start with though am now with dh working away.
OM has very glamorous job, could end up eventually living abroad my life would be so different, but I did not know that when I met him, that is not what attracted me.
I think like I say I have had itchy feet for a couple of years but have not wanted to admit it, though have been increasingly living my own life when dh is away. I have never had dh living here 24/7 don't think I could stand it would drive me mad. But i know I owe him loyalty, he loves me so much.
I know I have got to decide whether I would be without him without om so am trying to get my head round that.

OP posts:
sunshiney · 12/11/2009 10:11

amy64, i really do feel for you, i've been there. the highs and lows are exhausting. This is why i say try and clear your mind of it all for a little while so your own thoughts and feelings have time to come to the surface.

you say you wish you could tell your husband you don't love him - well of course, that would be impossible because you have been together for so long, but you have fondness and respect for him. of course your feelings for your dh are not going to be the same as what you feel for your OM, those intoxicating feelings are temporary though. If you got together with your OM, once that infatuation had gone, do you think you two would be compatible long term? think practically about that.

You say 'how do you leave your kids' - there's no reason why you would be leaving them. Yes, depending on what happens circumstances would change, they would need to see their father and therefore not be with you, but you would need to adjust to that too. wanting anything else would be wanting to have your cake and eat it too.

after reading your last post carefully, i just want to bring something up - you say your OM tells you he will back off and give you time, etc. That is a classic technique to get the object of your desire to wish to be ever closer to you. I am not saying he's manipulative, just that these are the dynamics of attraction.
Say to him, yes, lets get some space in here for a little while. take him up on it. take control.

of course i don't know the full extent of your situation, but my feeling is be very cautious about letting go of a 30 year marriage for what may right now be infatuation, something that is untested by the stresses and strains of daily life and reality.

hope your spirits lift soon - remember you not a terrible person, just a confused one right now!

amy64 · 12/11/2009 10:29

Thanks sunshiney. Perhaps it is infatuatiion am so sure its not though.
I have got so much to think about because I cannot go on like this, so yes am going to try to be sensible, talk properly to om sort this out before I crack up. He tells me he loves me but he could be infatuated, swears hes not but yes we have got to sort this out.

OP posts:
sunshiney · 12/11/2009 10:43

i don't mean to say it's 'just infatuation' and dismiss the feelings you have. infatuation is normal, and can very well go on to a successful relationship.

it's just that the trouble with infatuation is it prevents you from seeing clearly if a relationship, a person, is all that you think it is.

amy64 · 12/11/2009 11:01

oh i know you didn't mean it like that. At one point last summer we were texting each other when he was away constantly, literally hundreds of texts, that was infatuation then, now we tex two or three times a day, sometimes not at all. But i think about him constantly. Wish I was with him. When dh is away I don't miss him, not done for a while, before this. Perhaps I just take dh for granted and if realistically he wasn't there I would miss him, but at the moment it doesn't feel like it..

OP posts:
countingto10 · 12/11/2009 12:59

Just a word of warning Amy64 before you give up your 30 yr reltionship, my DH told OW what she wanted to hear, that he loved her, wanted to spend the rest of his life with her etc. He admits now that he did use her however manipulating she was. Affairs are not reality. When the reality hit him, he found he couldn't handle it and in effect he had no real emotional attachment to her, it was just fantasy etc.

As one poster has pointed out, your OM is being slightly manipulative and you do really need to step back from him and maybe start giving a little bit to your DH. Someone on another thread helping a poster get over her H's affair, suggested doing two nice things for him a day. Maybe you can do that for your DH, something to think about and concentrate on (and your DC too). To get the thoughts of OM out of your head.

butterballs · 12/11/2009 15:10

I honestly think your situation is quite common - not that it makes it any easier. I think it is helpful to see it as part of life's journey. I don't think it is necessarily realistic to "cut out OM" and all that stuff. Eventually this situation will be resolved, one way or another. I think honest communication (or as honest as is possible given the circumstances) is the way forward. I am in a situation where I am very fond of my partner, have lovely children, a stable home life, but I know that there are huge gaps missing - I don't really fancy partner and have never been in love with him. Remarkably, we have had conversations about this and he accepts how I feel and that I might not be faitful.

Given my position, I accept that he might want to look elsewhere, but he doesn't, although he has had a few flings in the past. Strangely, that doesn't bother me that much as long as he is a good father and a good friend - we do get on very well. I think each person and couple is unique and every situation has to be seen as unique. There is no "one size fits all" solution and sometimes other people come into your life and the challenge is to find a way forward.

amy64 · 12/11/2009 15:43

countingto10 yes I hear what you are saying, actions speak louder than words. And yes I know what you mean about fantasy. Real life is so different.
Thanks Butterball, yes I suppose it is part of lifes journey. I think relationships are hard when partners work away.
I imagine dh in bed with someone else and I honestly do not know what I feel. Yes I would be jealous in a way but if I was happy with om don't think I would, whcih makes me horrible.
I am going to find a way forward, god knows how, but it has really hit me today that the most important thing is that I am a mum. Maybe it won't be long til my dcs flee the nest, I was 18 but they are still my children.

OP posts:
amy64 · 16/11/2009 14:54

Feel so utterly messed up today. Dh and om both away at the moment and all I do is cry. It is like I am a shadow of my former self.
How did I get in such a mess? I truly feel like I love 2 people. My marriage is not really unhappy, it is just me that has changed although obviously dh has good and bad points but who doesn't.
At the moment feel like I am safe from om as he is away tho he texs me. He tells me if i want him to stop texing and ringing he will but so far have not been strong enough to. He has told me he will wait for as long as it takes and as soon as I talk with him I want to be with him and when I see him about it is so hard.
But I am racked with guilt over dh and my family. Am sure I still love dh,he would be devastated. I am scared that if i stay, i will always wonder what my life would have been and regret it, or if I go will I make the biggest mistake of my life and ruin my family? I know I should truly be on my own for a bit but as dh works away i spend so much time on my own anyway. Thoughts are whirling round my head and I think I am on my way to having a nervous breakdown.
How can you work at your marriage if someone is telling you that they would wait years for you, loves you and has left their partner for you. If i tell him to go he says that he will but will always be my friend and will tex me occasionally but I cant see how you can do that. It is very hard to see what I want when they are both away so much.
In my heart of hearts am sure I want to be with om but do not know if i can break our family up just because of what I want.
The thing is I thought I was reasonably happy before but it is like I have met someone special.
I feel in utter despair.

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 16/11/2009 15:00

no further on then, amy64 ?

oh dear

you need some help in RL

or make a decision and stick with it

it seems you really do want it all

unfair on everybody, including yourself

your poor dh, while he works away to support his family you are mooning after another man

you cannot go on like this, can you ?

amy64 · 16/11/2009 15:05

No you are right, I can't. I am petrified of making the wrong decision and yes poor dh, i don't deserve him anyway.

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