Soo angry at OW's text

[helpmeoutofthismess]

Apologies if this comes up twice- having computer probs.

Basically my H who left me 3 months ago following an affair, has recently told me he'd like to work on our marriage and asked if I'll take him back.

We have a 9 month old DD who we both absolutely adore and we have really bonded over her and despite everything there is still a deep affection between us and we spend alot of time together despite being "separated." We were together for 10 years before his affair.

The problem is, I still cannot trust him. I know he's had contact with the OW since he left and the timing of his affair was absolutely awful- I was 9 months pregnant, an discovered it 2 weeks after my DD was born.

Anyway, perhaps stupidly, I texted the OW to ask if they were still involved. I had her number still from nasty texts she sent me after I confronted her initially in my shocked and devestated state.

She texted back denying any current involvement then the next day sent me a really nasty text accusing me of being the "final nail in the coffin" in her marriage and that because of my texts, her husband was leaving her. No remorse, no guilt, no apology, just pure hatred from her to me.

She sent my H similar texts, blaming him for her H leaving her and lots of abuse with it.

I know my H is responsible for breaking OUR wedding vows, but surely she is responsible for her own marriage???? She has a child, which is why I caould never forgive her part in it when she knew what the first few weeks of being a new mum is like but she didn't seem to care.

I've felt sick ever since, as if I've been dragged months back in time when she initially sent me nasty texts when I discovered their affair. Texts which made me feel I was responsible for my H's infidelity.

I can't believe someone could be soo selfish and nasty as to blame the wife of the man you had an affair with for the breakdown of your own marriage.

Just soo angry at her- can't seem to let it go. Feel she got off VERY lightly as I never contacted her H or caused alot of bother for her. I kept it between me and my H and hence we subsequently separated while she stayed with her hsuband!!!!!

Help me to let this go please.

I really hope that you guys bickering and arguing between yourselves regards to other posters intentions will help the OP.

Why dont some of you step back five minutes, give the thread a rest, and re-read what has been said?

Nobody has flamed OP (perhaps moondog was a bit brusque though).

It is exactly the same issue. The OP asked for help to move past the issue of being hung up on OW, so my interpretation of that is that OP knows she shouldn't blame OW but wants our help in getting her head to take charge of her heart.

So us saying 'you shouldn't blame OW' is more helpful than saying yes, OW is vile and to blame, which would further confuse OP and isn't based upon rationality.

Actually your own unsympathetic post triggered mine. Have a look at yours QS. It must be so unhelpful to have your behaviour, that you are appealing for help in changing, questioned and described as strange. It was all in the OP.

helpme Of course you are angry with her, she has behaved badly, as of course has you husband.

Draw a line under her now, wipe her number from your phone, do not ever be tempted to contact her again. If she continues to text you then see about changing your number? There is nothing so frustrating as trying to wind somebody up who is just not responding. Be the non responding person, the better person.

I hope you are doing okay, you will be in a much better position to work on what to do with your marriage either way if you do not contact her again. Not only that your self respect will remain intact.

I hope you are okay. What you are going through is very, very painful. Go easy on yourself.

It's horrible, isn't it, to be treated so unpleasantly, seemingly without good reason or so disproportionately. And, rational or not, we are human and can become fixated on this.

I think sometimes we get into the trap of thinking that we have to find a peaceable resolution. So we get stuck in a dissonance, where we think, 'I've done everything reasonable, why is the other person not responding reasonably; how do I fix this?'

I'm guessing that this OW's own issues, which have nothing to do with you personally, mean that she is never going to behave like a civilised being and communicate with you nicely.

And I think you're saying that you realise this but that you need some mechanism to allow yourself to accept this rather than remaining stuck in your own head in the (perfectly understandable) cycle of trying to resolve the conflict with her.

Things that other people have said to me in the past to help me move past some impossible piece of work of a person have included:

"Adult communication with/apology from x? It just ain't gonna happen"

"Noone knows what x's problem is, but it's his/her problem - you mustn't allow it to become your problem"

Hope this helps - good luck

Can't see much of an issue with what Dittany and Moondog posted here. Mewling and cossetting people has it's place but then so does speaking plainly

Sqalland - I think that's an excellent post and goes to the heart of what the OP is saying. We all tend to place our own values on how other people might behave - and it is sometimes a bit of a shock when they don't.

I'd also like to say to the OP that I understand your conflict and turmoil - and I also respond to what Anifrangapani is saying. People going through the pain of betrayal have some judgements to make. In making the enormous decision of whether to stay or go, it seems completely rational to me to weigh up whether the affair defines that person. In some cases, I have no doubt that an affair is just another manifestation of a pattern of emotional abuse - in cases like this, as Dittany seems to be saying, the decision is more clear cut, though still painful.

In other cases though, the affair and the behaviour just before and during it are truly aberrant - which is what I meant by the statement that good people do have affairs - and affairs happen in happy marriages. It clouds the issue so much if previously, one's partner was kind, faithful and loving - and because of this, they fall from such a high pedestal when discovery happens. The shock is enormous.

So for the betrayed spouse, they must do some sums - and weigh up whether the affair defines (or confirms) their partner as an awful person - or whether they were an awful person "for a while". Their behaviour after the affair is also key to this - if they take full responsibility for the enormous hurt caused and do everything in their power to restore esteem and nurse the terrible hurt in their partner, then that tells you something about whether they are truly sorry and worthy of a second chance.

Betraying spouses are not all the same - just as all OM and OW are not the same. And people have different needs met by affairs - and this has changed in terms of gender expectations over the past 20 years or so. There is now a wealth of sociological and psycho-therapeutic evidence to suggest that whereas in the past, men's affairs were sex-driven and women's affairs were emotion-driven, men and women these days are confounding those stereotypes, so more women are having "fuck buddies" (loads of evidence on these boards to suggest that) and more men are engaging in emotional affairs (likewise).

Similarly, the role of the OW has changed. Stereotypically depicted as the needy, essentially kind woman who fell in love before her lover revealed he was married, often wasting years of her life (and her child-bearing years) waiting for the man to leave his wife - a victim, in other words. But society has moved on and we now have the full range of human behaviour displayed in women - which is what you'd expect in an emancipated society where women own the rights to their sexual behaviour - it is as it should be. Women don't want to be victims - and quite rightly don't see themselves as such.

But that means that other aspects of behaviour change too. So we have women engaging in "guilt-free" affairs with married men and they feel no guilt or compassion towards their own partner or their lover's. We have (other) women like the one in this case, who sees everything
as a competition between women and sometimes, affairs are actually a means of hurting fellow women - that's often why they behave the way this one has done. And then we have other women who genuinely fall in love, feel terribly hurt when it ends, and retreat to lick their wounds and learn from the experience - but they feel no need to go on hurting the wife. And of course we have all this behaviour being mirrored in Other Men too.

People are all different, but the hurt for the betrayed spouses remains much the same, I'd say.

For you OP, I'd take your time and try to do those sums I was mentioning earlier. And don't sacrifice yourself or your dignity for this relationship. Where I always agree with Dittany is that you have a greater duty of care to yourself than to your relationship. The future marriage needs to enhance your life, not suppress your needs. Post-affair relationships are often better because at last, people who have previously suppressed their needs on the altar of their family or their relationship, learn to take time out for themselves - and put themselves first for a while.

People are human and fallible and often do truly terrible things to the people they love most - but if that behaviour is not truly endemnic to the person's character and previous actions, it is possible to move on and create an even better marriage, one less innocent perhaps, but wiser and richer.

Human and fallible is one thing but people do not knowingly or deliberately do vile things to a person they truly love and respect - I will always maintain that a man who can cheat on his pregnant wife is no kind of man at all and will always put his selfish "needs" first and foremost, it is absolutely the worst thing a man can do to his wife and unborn child, the ultimate betrayal.
The OP needs to search her heart and ask herself why she thinks she needs him in her life (as her partner) when he thought so little of her and their baby - when he cheated on her (repeatedly?) it was a cold and deliberate act, not some human and fallible "mistake". She says she can't trust him, how can she, ever?

Thank you for everyone's responses. I have to say I was surprised to sign on tonight and see so many! I really appreciate all the advice that has been given.

I understand it is a very precarious situation and that I have to learn to hold my husband responsible for his betrayal entirely and not focus on the OW if we have any hope of moving on.

I think I'm just a fairly trusting and naive person by definition and am still truly shocked and scarred by the way this woman has behaved towards me.

I don't know any females in my circle of friends who would behave like this, but then I guess life is full of surprises. And yes I wouldn't have expected it from my H either for that matter.

In my mind my anger towards the OW doesn't take away the feelings of hurt I still feel regarding my husband's betrayal, but rather enhances them if that makes sense. That is why I want to let it go.

My H was a very caring, thoughtful and considerate partner for 10 years before his affair. The trust has gone at present but I'm not quite prepared to give up on our marriage altogether at this stage, if there is any hope of salvaging it with time.

That's how I feel at the moment but your responses have certainly made me think about things from a different perspective and I will definitely take my time before I make any decisions either way.

Thank you all for your thoughts and helpul posts.

It really bothers me that you have a happy 10-year relationship with someone and as soon as you are pregnant - with HIS child, he goes off and starts shagging someone else.

And you say you have bonded over your child. Really? While you were up all night breastfeeding a new baby and he was off shagging someone else?

I would seriously be questioning the benefit of getting back together with this man. He has let you down horribly and he will probably do so again.

Yes, the OW sounds awful. But the key is that your H violated your relationship and your intimacy by actively bringing her into it. I would try to save your anger for him -you will feel more dignified later on as well.

I guess what also doesn't help is his lack of judgement in the person he chose to have an affair with. He has chosen someone who does sound quite barmy.

Good luck in your decision making.

I think you have to think about why, rather than take your H's word for the fact they are not in contact, you felt you had to check it with the OW. That clearly shows you have no trust in him, or what he says.

I'm not surprised about the reaction you got - if you put the shoe on the other foot, what would you be saying to your H if you found an accusatory text from the OW's H asking whether they were still seeing each other? That's not to say you should feel sorry for her, of course not, but it really shouldnt be a surprise that she hasnt responded nicely and politely. Your text has no doubt re-ignited all this in her house, and her H has obviously had enough.

Having been the OW (although unlike the OW in the OP's case, I was single) I was put in the position more than once by his wife of confirming or denying whatever stories he told her about us. When I said what he'd said was true, she didnt believe him. However she equally didnt believe it when she had proof of his lies either (albeit not from me). That's no way to go on. They are still married, both unhappy, he has no freedom (probably deservedly) and she has no trust. You cant live a life like that.

I think you both need counselling, and he needs to re-earn your trust over time. Or call it a day. Life's too short to be constantly second guessing what someone's doing, or if they are being honest etc.

HelpMe you have loved your DH for 10 years and had a child with him whereas your only experience of OW is this negative experience. Your feelings toward her are therefore bound to be much less ambiguous and unequivical than your feelings towards your husband. In some ways this makes them easier to deal with (less confusing) but no less intense. In a lot of cases the OW is just a shadow but having had the misfortune to actually deal with her, you also have had a genuinely unpleasant personal interaction with her. Of course this enhances your feelings of hurt in your DH - not only did he cheat but with a bitch to boot!

But it is misdirected to focus your feelings on her. As you acknowledged, it was a mistake to text her. What you were looking for from her, you need to think about how to get this from your DH if you are to try and make it work.

No excuses for her but often people behave the worst when they are coming to terms with the fact that they have done something wrong.

Delete her number - she sounds decidedly odd. I'd also be a little concerned that your husband bonded with someone who behaves like this. No doubt she was upset by the end of her affair with him, but to text you nasty messages just after you've given birth???????????????? Erm........me thinks she sounds loopy.

Happens, though - my H worked with the OW for 3 years and thought she was a lovely, helpful subservient woman. Yet she told him all sorts of lies, inventing dead people, claiming he was the only person she'd slept with bar her husband (arranged marriage), yet later admitted to an EA and posts I found on t'internet after show she'd certainly tried her hardest to have a PA with various talkboard types (her husband said she'd done more, why he took her back yet again I will never know). Oh - not to mention pretending to have various hobbies, qualifications and liking everything he did (convinced him thanks to Wikipedia).

Affairs are built on lies, not sensibe judgements about character - that's what they are, lies. Bet he's just as surprised she's this much of a bitch as I'm sure she presented herself as an angel throughout (though the fact she could go through with it knowing he had a pregnant wife says a lot about her, and I won't even go into what it says about him...).

Oddly, on another topic - my H was always a selfish git before so having the affair definitely validated my confirmation of his worst traits. But his response after and his realisation of what it had made him was like a slap in the chops and has actually made him a better person. You never can tell...

Did your DH really bond though? I know when my DH had his fling, he did it with someone that he had no emotional bond with whatever. And, despite what I'd always assumed about affairs, he found the sex revolting. In fact, he took out a lot of his anger at himself on her, subtly, but also struggled to cope with seeing his shabby standards reflected back at him in her - but part of him was out to damage himself, so he felt that was all he deserved.

What he got out of it was the one thing that was missing in our relationship - time together. We were ok for sex, but I remember him saying that he felt the sex with her was expected of him (and he took something because he physically wasn't attracted to her) and basically thought "all I have to do is ejeculate, then I've got someone to listen to me".

I suspect she didn't enjoy the sex either, and that her motives were more to avoid being single than borne out of genuine feelings for DH.

And for several months afterwards, I fell apart because she'd been so unpleasant to me and my DC's. The one email she sent to me referred to my children's physical/mental safety, and several months later, she followed up threats to these by frequent communication. That she knew about me, that my time was filled with dealing with child's SN's, that she contacted me to make nasty observations about my child's disability during her few weeks with DH....yes, I probably obsessed with her for a while. That she could give me such hatred while helping my DH destroy his marriage, and no, she didn't know that I knew what was going on. In fact, having a stranger threaten to harm your children is what probably cracked me up. It's so against how I could behave, and to put a 10yr old child in counselling because of it, it is tough.

And, of course, she'd had a DH who'd cheated on her, so part of me was thinking that she knows what it's like to be on the receiving end, so how could she? Alternating with, now DH has told her it's over, will she be truthful (no, she just tried to inflict more damage on Dh's family).

That there's not been a lot of time between the Op's DH's fling and now is probably why she feels that she can't trust him. But if her DH is genuinely supportive of her and genuine about his reasons for staying with her, that trust will return. We're 2 years on, now. And I could see from my DH's behaviour during the fling (when I wasn't supposed to know!) and when he finished it, and since, that he's genuine. We've got a much more balanced relationship, and this last year has been brilliant.

I still struggle to cope with things like the OW knowing he wasn't going to work (because he was with her - some of the time, and using work as an excuse to avoid her the rest, but still not going to work! He was trying to destroy everything in his life. So how could she have supported this? But then I think she's so emotionally unaware on many levels that she just couldn't see it).

What bugs me is that she knew him and knew that his behaviour was out of the ordinary (threatening to harm his kids, then demanding physical affection from me, not going to work, lying, he was cracking up - and we know the reasons why, and he's addressed them). And it was her that pushed for commitment, made his solicitor's appointment etc.

I actually pity the OW now. She's leapt into another relationship within weeks of DH telling her to clear off. And, as with DH, I'm sure she was declaring love within days, ready to move in with him within weeks etc etc.

But, that's her problem. And until she addresses it, it will continue to foul her life. (so if I wanted revenge, she's doing it for me!). In the same way, OP's OW is in a situation of her own making. Nothing to do with OP. And OP, it might help to think of it as her now getting the hurt/inconvenience that she might have been inflicting on you. Karma? And leave it at that.

She'd also been tracking us through our marriage (she was his ex from a long time back) and even got a copy of our marriage cert/ the DC's b.certs (and mine). There really are odd people out there....and I also feel she's got off lightly, as, whatever she's telling people about her few weeks with Dh, I bet it's not the truth. She told Dh that her Ds was conceived because her then Dh raped her. That's news to people that I've queried that with, who are close to her family/friends. For a long time, I felt that I knew just how awful she was and that it wasn't fair that people around her might believe her lies.

And at no point did I give Dh an easy ride - I've held him fully responsible for putting such evil in my life, and damaging the DC's. And our relationship is very different. But, I'm lucky, in that he did all the rectifying himself (so got himself counselling, supported me, built a relationship with his DC's). I'm not demonising the OW, but know how awful it is when the OW is unnecessarily vicious.

My Grandfather used to say - 'Some people will hate you, just because you're there'.

You'll have to deal with a few nutters like this in your life, just accept their loathing as a weird sort of compliment and keep the hell away from them.

I hope it all works out for you.

Interesting that anon's H is yet another man for whom the sex was not driving the affair - this is far more common now and like I was saying earlier, confounds all the stereotypes we probably all grew up with about why men in particular, have affairs.

And interesting to read that anon also felt that the OW didn't have genuine feelings for her H - but that didn't stop her behaving monstrously to anon and like the OW in my case, even verbally attacking children, was acceptable to her. Likewise, the OW in my case had suffered infidelity at the hands of her husband - twice.

I already thought - but independently my H's counsellor observed - that women like this are actually very damaged individuals and the motive behind their behaviour is very often to hurt other women, especially those who appear to have happy lives with loving and faithful husbands. Their lives are defined by competing with other women all the time - so they don't have strong friendships with women (and so often, other women sense something about them, and back off) and they also tend to flit from drama to drama - it is an extreme form of attention-seeking.

I know in my case, the OW's only close female relationship was with her mother - and her entire working life has been full of employment tribunals, malicious and unfounded bullying allegations, complaints against colleagues etc. She has literally left every place she has ever worked, under a cloud.

As the OP says, when you have lived your life as a decent person with life-enhancing female friendships - and when no-one you know would ever behave like this, it is really shocking.

And I profoundly agree, it does make it worse that your husband ever got involved with someone this awful. But as Abedelia says, affair partners (men and women) are masking the unsavoury aspects of their personalities. At some point, the rose-coloured specs DO come off - I know in my H's case, reasonably quickly, it started to dawn on him that OW's beliefs and attitudes were abhorrent to his own values. He'd also started to heed warning bells - the lack of female friends, the whopping lies she told, the contempt for other women.

But I reiterate, this is not the case for every OW at all, just some of them. Ultimately, OW who behave like this are very unlikely to have happy lives, unless they recognise that they are damaged and actually need help.

And I also want to reassure the OP that despite us all recognising the particular awfulness of your DH doing this to you while pregnant, it is astonishingly common. Psychotherapists have identified several life catalysts for affairs and the birth of a child is right up there - as is any event that forces someone to "grow up" and take responsibility. Similarly, deaths of parents often provide catalysts for destructive behaviour; the comedian Lenny Henry is a celebrity example of this.

I think you are wise, OP, to take your time with this and you acknowledge yourself that it will take time to trust again. You are right that your focus should be on him and what he has done and like Aussieng says, you have known him for a long time and therefore have the benefit of seeing his good qualities at other times - whereas your only interactions with OW have been horrible and negative.

Even if she hadn't behaved this way, chances are you would never have chosen this woman as a friend and eventually, you will focus less on her. You will always harbour negative feelings about her I suspect - it would be very strange given how horrible she has been to you (far beyond just having an affair with your H) if you didn't, but it might help to diminish her power by acknowledging how much happier a life you are likely to have - with or without your H. You have a wonderful daughter, a circle of lovely friends and the thing that no-one can take away from you, your innate decency and humanity.

That's a great post Normal. She sounds to me like she's really walked the path: they separated, they are trying again, she hardly has rose-coloured spectacles on. It's a shame for moving on to be undermined by bitterness that you seem to have no control over, against someone so utterly without scruple. It's not as if there aren't enough difficulties anyway.

Some really good posts Normal. I think my dh's mistress was/is a very unhappy woman, and I know that dh was not at all happy when he started his affair (another emotional turned to physical). It certainly wasn't a "cold calculating" act, but more of a combination of something that crept on them, plus something more like a teenage crush (dh wrote her poetry fgs!). Many affairs are purely escapist fantasy (well many of the ones that are regretted anyway). They were both incredibly stupid IMO, and I of course was wonderful . The latter is not really true of course, but I think that's the zone you need to be in to cope with this sort of event. I felt that morally I always had the upper hand, and that after the affair it was me that was making the decisions about what next. That's actually quite empowering, although also lonely if you are used to thinking through things together, or if you loose your best friend along with your lover, as I did.

I had a lot of counseling after dh's affair, which helped me to work through all sorts of issues and behaviour patterns I had got into. I lived on my own for the first time (dh and I got together at 19) and generally we both did a fair amount of growing up. So although obviously I would have rather the affair never happened, I can look back now without any great angst (occasionally something brings back the horrible feeling, but really not often now).

But I really would say at least for the first year you are going to have big mood swings and great changes in the way you think about your future, your dh and yourself. Wait until those feelings settle down a bit before making any big life choices, so that you are sure in yourself that it is the right thing to do. Also your husband probably needs time on his own to reflect. I don't think that mine took in just how much he had hurt me for a good six months or so, because he was too tied up in his own emotions, and the fall out from realising that he wasn't the good guy that he had always thought he was.

WWIFN - re your reference to "competition". One of the things that the OW said to DH during their fling was that "Anon is my competitor". And a misguided sense of her own situation/position "As your mistress, I have the right to expect you to stay overnight with me at least once a week". Both things I still find odd! The good thing about these comments was that DH just found himself looking at her and thinking "you cold cow". So if there had been a chance of a real emotional bond developing, her being herself prevented that. And he was in that mindset about her during a day out with her (the day after they first had sex) which was only about a week after they'd first met up with each other.

Actually, I've just remembered, she kept all of DH's emails/texts etc. When he queried this with her she said something along the lines of "You never know when you might need them". (possibly did me a favour though, because DH told me absolutely everything, every meeting, sex act, conversation that he could remember!).

I would have said that it was possible that her DH's affair could have done the damage to her, but the signs were there prior to that, as she tried to get back with DH shortly after we first got together by sending his mum a "friendly" letter, that was clearly meant for him. Upset his mum terribly. (and she said to me at the time that she always found her "demanding and very young" I regret cutting that conversation short in a way, but did so at the time thinking that I wouldn't want her to think it's ok to be negative about her son's previous partners to current ones!).

She did a similar thing after the fling, too, contacting his mum "worried" about DH. Upsetting his mum, trying to provoke DH into responding to her, when her (many) phone calls etc were going unanswered.

She's obviously not a happy individual - as in deep down settled with herself, aware of who she is etc etc. And at the moment, the Op's OW is looking for someone to blame/refusing to accept responsibility for consequences to her actions. Try to feel sorry for her in view of this. The anger does go (but in my case I admit that when I think about it, which is rarely, I just get confused by it. I really don't understand HOW, even though I can understand the theory of WHY someone would behave like that!).

Normal, your posts are so familiar to me. And so clearly written. It's refreshing to read opinions which aren't just "Your partner is scum, once a cheater, always a cheater".

You said yourself OP, it was a huge mistake texting OW. I read a comment further up about you not being able to trust your husband because he must be being untrustworthy at the moment ... I do not agree with that in the slightest. You cannot trust him at the moment because of what he has done in the past. Following an affair, trust is not rebuilt over night. It can take years of hard work from both partners. He might be being completely honest with you but that doubt can still be in the back of your mind.

I also do not think you are passing the sole blame of the affair onto the OW. I don't think it's unreasonable to feel that part of the blame is shared with the affair partner if they knew about the betrayed spouse. Just like me thinking the OW was jointly to blame for the affair with my H doesn't take away any of the responsibility my H had ... I don't think having to blame the wayward spouse 100% should negate any responsibility of the affair partner. Especially when both were betraying their spouses.

No you have no part in her marriage breaking up. It was all down to her and your husband's actions. Personally I think she is treating you like this because she is using you as an outlet for her anger. She can't pass the blame to anyone at home. She can hardly blame her husband. So she'll blame you.

I think it's natural to be angered at her texts but now you can delete her number and sit back and think "what goes around, comes around".

To my "face" the OW in my situation was apologetic.

To her friends, I was the evil bitch.