just found out DH having affair and I'm remarkably calm!

[scodgie]

I've been in a bit of a loveless marriage for a while. A few months ago I asked him outright if he was having an affair as all the signs were there and he looked me in the eye and said 'no'.
I did a tiny bit of digging today as his behaviour recently has been odd to say the least and found an incriminating email which he can't lie about.
My only dilema is to divorce or not to divorce???? We have 2 lovely DS and I don't want them to suffer. I am not considering divorce because of affair but because of being shut out and lied to. Any thoughts?

Scodgie, I hope you were able to get your DH to talk last night. From all your posts it sounds like you have thought this all through, and are already "uncoupled" from your DH. I suspect that your DH has avoided thinking through the issues raised by his affair. My DW (I guess ex-to-be-DW) said that throughout her affair she was in complete denial about its implications, and fully expected its intensity to just fade away.

how was the chat?

Hope you are OK.

Well I found out my husband had been having an affair 2 years ago this Xmas.

I decided to stay and make a go of it.

Big mistake. 2 years of utter misery and hell.

No matter how hard he tried I just cannot forget although weirdly I have sort of forgiven.

I just dont see him in the same light. He has let me down. He is not the man I thought he was. He has a selfish side to him I never saw before .

It was the betrayal in the lieing and snooping around side of it that hurts alot more than the putting his cock inside another woman. The betrayal was the final nail in the coffin for us.

If I had my time again, I would have gone the day it call came crashing down. God if only, I may have been a divorced woman by now.

Mrs Lemon, that's how I sometimes feel: it would've been cleaner. But then, wouldn't you have had doubts about not having tried to save your marriage if you did?

I'm glad I am giving it a go, because at least I can then say I tried... but tbh I am also (one year on) getting very sick of always thinking about it and yes - for very much the same reasons as Mrs Lemon -just thinking that he is not the person I thought he was.

The man always had a selfish side - but I put up with it simply for the reason that I thought that whatever else he did, he would never hurt me or the dcs. Which he did - and it's the bad behaviour towards us and what he told her about our relationship while it was going on that I can't forget. He totally turned against us as we were just a hinderance to him and what he thought he wanted...

It's a shame as he is a much nicer person since, but I'm not sure I can live with the knowledge that he just didn't love us enough to say no.

OP - I am sure the fact you have evidence will be a nice surprise as he is probably still convincing himself he can get away with it...

We had our chat, and he did try to deny it, until faced with my evidence, funnily enough he has become rather apologetic and remorseful....but I guess they all do. He said he wants to be with me and DC's, not her. I have asked him to give up his email account and iphone which he did straight away, but I'm not stupid enough to think that's it.
I have decided to consider giving it another go as it's too easy to give up and walk away but the very second I find his behaviour has reverted to his selfish ways then it's over and at least I can say I tried. We still have much talking to do and he will find himself making many sacrifices to make it work....how hard does he want to try in order to keep us? I'm not about to start playing games but I want some attention, affection, respect and love and he will find that if he can manage that he will get the same back.

Scodgie, I'm about six months down the line from you and I really recommend going to Relate. Find out what went wrong/is wrong with your relationship on both sides, how to communicate better and how to move forward.

Me and my DH had about 4 months worth of therapy and it really helped us to understand where it went wrong and how to put it right.

It is a hard path to choose and our marriage is still a work in progress and I'm still having "meltdowns" though not as frequently.

I also recommend this site www.beyondaffairs.com It helped me understand what I was feeling was perfectly normal and it will also help your H understand what he has to do to help you. There are several articles on the "need to know" which I found very helpful as my DH was relunctant to talk about the affair.

He needs to be an open book to you now and lose any right to privacy for the timebeing - a person with nothing to hide, hides nothing. This is the very first thing that has to happen.

Good luck.

Wow, MrsLemon - I could have written your post!!

For me it is 2 yrs next Friday and I so wish I had kicked him out the night I found out because once you start just putting up with a bad relationship, you sort of get used to it and then you need a big push to end it.

To scodgie, I think you sound like you are ready for the end of the relationship. I hope you can sort this out as soon as possible as dragging it out can be so damaging.

I've just come back from a counselling session and counsellor said that the hardest person to deal with post affair is the cheated on spouse as 9 times out of 10 they want it all to be about the cheater and the affair and not about the relationship. Please bear this in mind if you go the counselling route.

If you really, really want to stay together then think long and hard about how you want your future to be and what sort of relationship you want. Can you and your Dh actually achieve this ? Be brutally honest and brutally realistic. And give yourself time.

If you decide to go ahead and stay together, don't make recovery just about the affair and focus too sharply on this. A lot of people pay lip service to exploring their behaviour in the build up to affairs - they might make the right noises but deep down they just blame the cheater for it all. Explore all the other issues about your relationship - because you sounded unhappy regardless and there's no point embarking on this unless you 100% want to. If you are not committed to the changes you and he will have to make it won't work and you will be left bitter and resentful.

Re - reading your earlier posts where you seemed so positive and focussed, I can't help the words ' knee -jerk ' and 'reaction ' coming into my mind - and this applies to him aswell as you. Sorry.

You have both been handed a gold plated get out of jail card if you want to end things. Just because the alternative is scary doesn't mean its not the right thing to do. Keep an open mind - because once you start investing time and energy into rebuilding and fixing, you will be loathe to give it up even if deep down you know its not what you want.

Best of luck.

Scodgie - thanks for coming on and updating. To me, it still sounds as though you are in shock though. Either that, or this hasn't been as awful an experience as it would be if you really loved him - I just can't tell from what you write.

I'm not surprised he continued to deny it until confronted with irrefutable evidence - this is his shock and fear coming out, plus lying and deceiving becomes a habit that is difficult to break. At least some of what he tells you now will not be true, because of his fears for the future (self-preservation) and simply because lying is now habitual.

We can all help you on here, if you want that. But to advise and comment properly, let us know your true feelings about this.

All I will reiterate at this point is that it would be a massive mistake staying with him for the kids' sake. Stay with him because you love him and can't bear to live without him - these are the only things that will sustain you on what is a hellish journey.

I agree with Tattoed that at some point, you will need to review your whole relationship - and not just what he did. This is terribly important to develop a shared understanding of what happened and also to affair-proof your future marriage. But in these early days, I don't think that's appropriate. You are still in the dark about the whats, whens and circumstances of the affair - and in my view, this needs to come out before you can analyse why it happened. We are all different, but for me, it was terribly important for me to know everything - then I could make an informed decision on the future.

Scodgie, excellent advice from WhenwillI (as usual). I agree that it is very unclear from your posts whether you still have any feelings for your husband although I appreicate that this may be a result of you feeling a bit numb at the moment.

You are very succinct in your comments that your Dh is going to have to "work hard", "make many sacrifices", cease his "selfish ways" and the attention, affection respect and love which he has to now show you. However, I think that anyone on these boards who are genuinely trying to make a marriage work after an affair will tell you that it cannot work if it is just about holding the cheating partner up to an impossible standard of future bahaviour. You have as WhenWillI says to look at your whole relationship and how it got to this stage, including what you need to do differently and better. Your marriage does not exist for the sole purpose of making you feel good.

As a child whose parents marriage was impacted by infidelity (not to mention my own marital brush with it) when I was very young, I can tell you that it was not much fun watching my mother's everlasting insecurity and constant blaming of my father affairs for all their problems and my relationship with both parents was impacted by this.

Bloody awful spelling and I appear to have lost the "," too. Sorry

Thank you to countingtoten for the advice on looking at www.beyondaffairs.com.
This has helped me to consider things I hadn't and to constructively consider how to talk about all this to my husband.
Since my discovery things have been ok but I keep feeling so much anger that he put another woman ahead of his own family.
We went away to a spa with friends, at the weekend, which was already booked and he did sacrifice a round of golf to walk and swim with me (previously unheard of!)and understands that similar sacrifices are to be made forevermore.
We still have talking to do and he is a long way from forgiven but I'm feeling optimistic. Old relationship gone, new one beginning!

Scodgie - thanks for the update, but I still haven't a clue how you're really feeling. I accept we all react differently, but it still sounds as though this is about him doing penance rather than reaching understanding. That said, I'm glad he appears to be putting you first - but did he give up the round of golf because he wants to be with you, or because he thinks that "sacrifices" must be made?

How did he end it with OW - assuming he has?

Not sure about my feelings today! I wouldn't be giving it another go if I didn't want to and didn't think it could work.
My feelings have ranged from hatred and anger to not caring at all. The thing I am most upset about is not the affair but his attitude and behavior leading up to and during it.
I have written him a long email today explaining just how much his behavior has hurt me and what I am expecting for the future.
he has told me he will do anything at all to save our marriage (I'm resisting the temptation to start demanding 2 hour back massages every day, after he has thrown rose petals at my feet!).
We are going to work at the friendship, respect and affection bit and see how we go from there.
He has told OW he's been caught out and my snooping indicates he's had no further contact. He is happy to submit all aspects of his life for constant examination forevermore to satisfy myself this remains so.
OW is married with 2 children and thankfully lives hundreds of miles away. Do I tell her husband????

It sounds as though you've decided to remain within your arrangement rather than in your marriage.

I don't think there's anything at all to be gained from telling her husband btw. Please don't.

Scodgie, expect your feelings to go from one extreme to the other. It sounds like your H has had a big wake call and hopefully has learnt his lesson. Think about going to Relate or similar, I found it helped having a third party, independent perspective on it all.

And FWIW, I would leave OW well alone (although it is tempting to reek revenge), I know she was equally responsible as your H but it is up to her whether she tells her H (if he finds out another way at least you know you had no part in his or her childrens' unhappiness if makes sense). I could have got the OW sacked from her job in my case but I took the view that she was a single mum and her kids didn't deserve the fallout (even though she and my DH had put my kids through hell). She managed to get the sack anyway though not through anything I did - karma always bites you in the bum eventually .

Good luck

I'm not disagreeing with all those who declare that divorce is the way ahead, but I would like to make a couple of comments before you choose that route.

Divorce is not automatically a means to a happier life. It is in itself hugely upsetting, and once you are divorced, you are left on your own. No-one else to help with your life, or with the children; rather, you have the added difficulty of helping your children come to terms with Daddy not being around any more.

I know several women of my age who are still looking for someone to appreciate them and make them happy. Singledom isn't filled with hoardes of available men waiting to demonstrate that they would be better. It's filled with rats and love cheats, men who are married or gay but don't tell you, and so on. It's hard enough when you are single to meet nice men, it's even harder when you are older/have a couple of children to consider.

Whilst you are still married to this highly imperfect man, you at least have one thing. You are married. And he is the father of your children. This is something. Maybe a starting point. Once you are divorced from him, you do not have even that.

I once worked for a lady who was going through a divorce. He played some dirty tricks on her, met other women and it was all a bit unpleasant. However, all these tricks slowed the proceedings down, and with time, they started to see that in fact they were better off staying together and rubbing along civilly than completing the divorce. 20 years later, they are still together, the children are grown up, and they look back on a bumpy life together. I would actually say they are happy.

All the best with whatever you decide; I hope you find a happy way to proceed.

Just a quick alternative view to the 'don't tell the OW's husband' advice. I did let the husband know, and I am very glad I did. For one thing, I think he deserved the truth and should not be left living in the dark about what a delight his wife was. Turned out it wasn't the first time she'd done it, though in the previous case the OM lived in her home country so she couldn't actually arrange a PA, just an EA - and this also helped my H get over it very quickly as it was clear then that she'd lied through her teeth about herself and her supposed values. Her H even exposed a story about someone close to her dying that she'd used to bond with my H at the very start and on which much of the affair was built - all lies, think she was a bit of a narcissist really.

It is also much easier to ensure no contact takes place if there are two of you watching out for it. Personally, I'd always want to know if my partner was cheating, so yes, i applied my values to what I'd have wanted if I was her H. But that's up to you - this is just something to balance what othes have said.

I suppose I would be protecting my H if I didn't tell her H (no enraged man turning up on doorstep etc - especially if affair over). I don't know really I suppose, honesty is the way forward and I know I wanted to know about my H but to be the "messenger" of it all, I don't know......

Tough call Scodgie.

After much thought, I agree with Abedelia on this one. I feel very strongly now that keeping people in secrecy denies their choices in life and with hindsight, I now wish I had ensured OW's H knew, if only to let him know the truth about his wife before he had children with her.

If they had already had children, I suspect I would have still have kept quiet, but this time for the children's sake. Such a decision would also be affected by whether I thought the affair was ongoing - or had resumed - and also the behaviour of OW after the affair had been discovered.

The bit of your post OP that didn't resonate with me was when you said that you sometimes felt you didn't care...are you sure of your reasons for trying again?

I think it would be very, very selfish to say anything to the other woman's husband. Totally wrong and selfish - for all everyone knows they have an "agreement", he has had affairs or there are other things going on. Their marriage/relationship has nothing to do with anyone else. Also, if there are children involved, then perhaps they have decided to "do their own thing" but keep a family unit. This is perfectly understandable. No-one should meddle in anyone else's relationships. The problems within a marriage or relationship are between the two people involved - that is where the discussions should be taking place - anyone else is there because someone in the relationship wants them to be. So the discussion needs to revolve around that issue with whoever wanted an extra person in the relationship. No good will come out of throwing sh** into someone else's family life - sometimes people have turned a blind eye - and it is their right to do so.

Hmmm, then again he might be on ADs owing to his wife's poor behaviour and denials. If they have an arrangement they'll ignore her. How can you discuss something you know nothing about, barring a massive feeling things aren't right. And what about his sexual health, if nothing else?

Abdelia: because you (generic 'you') don't know the OW or her husband and more importantly it's not your business. And barging in waving the monogamist flag has the potential to do far more damage than sorting out your own relationship and leaving other people to deal with theirs.
Shiner: 'being married' but being in a shitty marriage (for whatever reason it's shitty) is NOT an advantage, it's a prison sentence. It's perfectly OK to be single, and being single is always and inevitably better than being in a miserable relationship.

I think in these types of situation the primary responsibility lies towards the children and protecting their right to a stable home environment. If they are very, very lucky that will be two responsible mature adults who are proper parents and also are also in love/love each other. That is the ideal scenario. Sadly, I think it is probably relatively uncommon.

So - next best scenarios - couple who live together providing a reasonable stable home environment but are not necessarily "in love" and my, possibly, think about other relationships or more, with or without knowledge of partner.

Couple who have reached a point where they can no longer live together to provide a reasonably harmonious environment for bringing up children - therefore decided to separate for a bit, maybe longer, maybe eventually divorce. Both parents maintain reasonabl relationship with each other for the sake of the psychological health of their children.

Other scenarios are less attractive.

In this particular case the husband is presumably not yet at a stage where he feels able to discuss the issues that have lead to the "triangle". However, removing the extra person from the triangle will not make the issues go away - just the symptom. Likewise, telling the other woman's husband will be precipitating a cascade of events - which may or may not lead to the "desired conclusion" whatever that is. Again, you can remove the lover from the equation but that does not resolve the underlying issues.

Also, if you "tell" you are taking on the role of judge and jury - you will most likely not be thanked for it - by anyone at all.