The tale of a second child and a relationship emergency

[Gizmo]

I wasn?t sure whether to post this in relationships or conception, so here it is. Apologies for the length:

DS is now 3.5 years old and such a joy. After he was born I was adamant that I was not having any more children and had a Mirena coil fitted, but over the past 18 months I have changed my mind. Sadly for me, DH has not. He feels that another child would stretch our lives very thin, that we would have trouble in giving him/her the time and resources they should have and DS has had. He is dead set against it, for very sensible reasons, and I know that, even if I somehow forced him to go along with me (by emotional blackmail, for example) he would always have such severe reservations that it could have a terrible impact on our relationship and his relationship with any child.

Worse still, a large portion of me actually agrees with him. I had PND after DS?s arrival and have no wish to relive that, plus I?m not really a baby person and so don?t really look forward to a dose of maternity leave with any great joy. The financial stress would be inconvenient, although not disastrous, and I know that the quality of life we have worked out with DS would take a big hit, for a short period, if not permanently. DS might hate his sibling.

But, but?..I make birth plans in my head. I see programmes with babies in them and cry hopelessly. I wonder whether another baby would be a boy or girl, blonde or brown, my eyes or (God forbid!) DH?s nose . I plan outings for two children.

So I?m torn in half. If I side with DH and my sensible inner half, then I?ll always wonder what I?ve missed and I think, barmy as it sounds, I?m going to have to deal with some grief. DH is worried I?m going to end up resenting him and it will drive us apart (to which part of me responds: ?duh, no sh*t Sherlock!? so he may well be right). If I force things through, and have a baby with an unenthusiastic DH, then, well I don?t need to join up the dots for you, do I? Every time the baby wakes us up, it?s my fault. Every time DS is upset because we can?t do something because of the baby, it?s my fault. Every time I am exhausted and unhappy with two small children and a full time job, it?s my fault and I really can?t be looking for much sympathy from DH.

Either way, this has the capacity to do some real damage to our relationship. I?m loosing control emotionally here, and hoping mumsnetters might have some coping mechanisms for me.

How do you deal with the grief if you can?t have another child? Do you think I might be able to find some other way to subdue my babylust? How do you move a relationship forward when you have a fundamental disagreement about something so serious as whether to have another child?

My thinking is going around in circles so anything new is going to be helpful. Please help?

No SP, I'm the only child in the relationship. DH has an older sister. You might be on the nail with about the depression issue, though. DH is naturally a bit depressive himself whereas I am the opposite and I think it was a dreadful, dreadful period for him after DS arrived.

I think if DD had accepted the breast and things had been easier on that front then I wouldn't have spiralled downwards so quickly (more of a long drawn out kinda thing!) but who knows. The lack of sleep and fearsome responsibility of looking after a small baby, and the slow dawning realisation that life would never, ever be the same took it's toll. There won't be that huge lifestyle change this time as we are already members of the parenthood club. (Lifestyle - what lifestyle??)

Let me know how you get on!! I have brought it up in a joky way on numerous occasions, only to be met with a point blank negative. I will have to draw up the pros & cons for a serious sit down if I have any chance at all I suppose....

Gizmo - my DH also tends towards the depressive at times and I know that the first year were a black time for him and he nearly went over the edge several times. I can understand why he would never volunteer himself for that again and why I cannot force the issue either. We could only do it if I were to stay at home for the full year and possibly beyond. This impacts on our finances considerably... and I don't know how I would cope as a SAHM. Working saved me last time... It is not just a straightforward yay or nay decision...

dinosaur - was it different second time around??

'Accidentally' falling pregnant is NOT a good solution, as Gizmo in her wisdom has already found. Imagine how you'd feel if someone did that to you? Especially if you had depression.

Counselling is really the ticket here.

Glad to hear it!

Gizmo, I haven't read the whole thread but just wanted to say that I talked dh into having ds2 soon after ds1 by arguing that it would give him a playmate and hopefully a friend for life, and that after we were gone he would at least hopefully have one close blood relative.

One day when ds1 was playing by himself I said to dh that this is what his childhood would mostly be if we didn't have another.

I really hope you can talk your dh round as I know how you must be feeling.

hi there. What you dont say is how old you are. Is it possible that maybe with you saying that you are not a baby person that you are lookign for a baby to fill a hole - when did you recover from depr. If you are young enough surely you have a long tme ahead and a some point in the future you may be in a better pos. has he ruled it out comp????? good luck, i dont think that there are any easy answers to your quest as he has as much right as you to determine the size of his family but i hope you find the happiness and satisfaction you and youre family deserve.

Thanks everyone, I shall have a quiet think over what you say and draw some conclusions before talking to DH.

Prettyfly, I'm 35, I have plenty of time, but really don't want to leave too big a gap between DS and any sibling.

We're having a nice evening, atm, just talking about a holiday and chilling, so I don't think I have broken our relationship quite yet with my unreasonable demands

Hello gizmo, im sorry to hear you are having such a hard time with this! i havent had chance to read every single post here so i hope i dont double what other people have said to much! My poor sister was in almost this situation a few years ago, only she had 2 already and wanted a 3rd, to her whatever her dh says - goes! - and thats that even if he told her to jump of a cliff edge! he said no more children and she never argued with that only she desperatley wanted another and would confide in our mum only about it! when my other sister found out she was pregnant my first sister used to walk to my mums sobbing - she was so sad (happy for my other sister of course) she did eventually discuss it with her dh and he still refused and its been about 8/9 years now and she has her 2 other children at 18 and 20 so she knows she wont be having one now she is also 44 and wouldnt even try now as she feels she is too old, but it has very very much put a wedge between her and her dh! they are still married but she resents him greatly and doesnt have the love and respect for him that she used too and to make matters worse he has recently said it might have been quite nice to have had another! (i dont think he realises the extent to which she wanted another) i really dont know how this could be resolved in any relationship, but as she has said since, the risk of having another is worth taking over how much emotional damage can occur from just one of you denying yourself a child you desperately want! I really really hope you can sort this with your dh!!! please let us know how you get on! xxxx

Well, funnily enough I had a long chat with a counsellor type this morning?.
She?s meant to be a business coach I see for work reasons but she also has a background in family counselling (has worked in Relate for 15 years) so I shamelessly ?nicked? the session (well, I do work with DH, so it could be said to be relevant to my working life ).

Of course, she said roughly the same things as you lot ? you are wise (except that she reckons two children are 4x the work of one ? well, everyone has different experiences!): whichever way this decision goes someone is going to lose out and therefore it?s crucial that we understand why we?re doing it. The alternative is just storing up trouble for later in the relationship ? rather like your sister, AnotherHelen.

She has volunteered herself as a counsellor and I feel safe with her, so now all I need to do know is deal with any objections DH may have?.wish me luck!

let us know how you get on & best of luck that you can resolve it and that everyone wins!

Good luck hunny! fingers crossed for you! xxx

Well folks, this morning I think I have married a really good man ? they do exist.

He?s agreed without a single wriggle that it might be a good idea to see a counsellor. His only reservation is that is he is dead worried about his depression (it doesn?t help that he is going into a down swing right now) mostly because when in depressive mood, he thinks some vile things about me (well, duh, like I hadn?t noticed!) and he?s scared that if these come out in a counselling session I will leave him.

So it might help him if we put some boundaries on the session, and not use it as a general discussion about our relationship. I don?t know if that?s possible, but I?ll ring Relate this morning and ask their opinion. The one slight downside is that he would prefer to work with someone we are both new to, so he doesn?t want to work with the business coach lady I spoke to yesterday.

We both understand that whichever way our decision goes, it will mean some pain for one of us. The question we can?t answer yet is who is going to have less pain? And, assuming they are the person who will have to compromise, what can we do to reduce the pain?

I don?t know why it makes me so happy, because the hard work and pain are really all in front of me ? I?m a bit scared now, in fact. I do know, though, that DH is prepared to put in the work and that we?re both working together, rather than against each other. Makes me feel it will be worth any pain.

Just a quick update, really.

We saw the counsellor at Relate (a novel way to celebrate your wedding anniversary ). She was pretty good - good enough that DH was quite open and relaxed. My only gripe was that she seemed to have an agenda that DH's position was slightly unreasonable and that counselling might help him to move it.

Now plainly this is good from my selfish pov, but actually what I am looking for is not someone to give a judgement on our problem, but to help us work out between us which person is going to have to compromise, and how they are going to deal with it. There were moments where she seemed to have decided that for us and I'm quite surprised it didn't alienate DH.

Anyway...we agreed further counselling would be helpful and she is booking us in for Relate sessions, although we will try to find a private counsellor more quickly, as DH wants to find a resolution.

It was great to talk like that, and we've been able to maintain a really positive vibe since, so I'm hoping we will find further counselling productive.

And on a confusing note...yesterday DH said to me: 'so when are you going to the doctor to get the coil taken out then?' . His story is that he just wants to take this process in babysteps and that moving onto a different form of contraception is one way of doing it...I'm very confused as this just sounds like he may be coming around to my way of thinking...except for the different form of contraception....

Are you actively looking for things to worry about Gizmo?
He likes the counsellor who thinks (quite rightly, that he is being a tad unreasonable). he isn't alienated by her and wants more sessions.
He is up for you taking your coil out.
This is GOOD! It means he IS THINKING THAT IT MIGHT BE NICE TO HAVE ANOTHER BABY WITH YOU! It is what they call a Result!
Don't knock it! (unless you are suddenly having cold feet).
Get down the doctors today to get that coil out!

OK, you're right Aloha.

I shall repeat it slowly:
It is good.
It is good.
It is good

Just a bit disorientating to think that DH might actually change his mind: it's so convenient to label him as 'stubborn'

Anyway, I had a happy broody half hour in Mothercare at lunchtime, working out how much it would cost us to replace all the baby kit we threw away, and I shall be down the docs first thing next week, before he changes his mind!

Oh Gizmo, your post sent tingles down my spine. I'm very happy that this is moving in the right direction for you.

I'm in a very similar situation to your first post - except don't feel desperate to have a second right now this minute. But I do want no. 2 and I know that if dh doesn't change his mind within the next year or two I am going to end up resenting him terribly or maybe even leaving him. Plus I'm 36 so I don't have more than a year or so to wait before (I feel) as if I need to start trying.
Dh cites all the logical objections - less money, less time, doesn't have the stamina for any more broken sleep etc. etc. etc. He's also suffered from two periods of severe depression - in fact is on Prozac at the moment (to do with work, not baby - but feeling insecure about work not the best basis for trying to conceive). I don't think he really understands quite how much this matters to me. I find myself doing calculations about do I have enough time to leave dh and find another partner who wants kids if he is immovable on this. I really don't want to leave him and I don't want to take ds away from him... but I desperately do want ds to have a sibling sometime in the next couple of years. And want to have another baby myself, not just for ds of course!
Both dh and I have siblings but he's not close to his sister, whereas I'm extremely close to my sisters. My mother's an only child and I know how hard that has been for her, especially as both her parents died when she was in her very early 20s so she's been on her own in terms of family (apart from us) for a long time. I don't want that for ds. And I think horrible things about what if something happened to ds, how would I ever forgive dh? Awful thing to even comtemplate, and how selfish of me to think about anything else other than how distraught I would be about anything happening to ds... but I guess the drive to have babies is really strong.
Maybe I should arrange some counselling as you are doing... or maybe I should just start by sitting dh down and explaining all this to him. Doesn't feel like the right time now with his depression though.

really glad things are looking a bit brighter Gizmo. FWIW we were in a simiar position. we have one DS (3.5) and it was only last year that DP would even consider us trying for another one.
12 months on we've not been successful yet but hopefully it won't be long.

Oh Edam - have you tried telling him how you feel? I mean really telling him? I burst into tears when I said I wanted another baby as I was so worried dh would be against it (broken nights, money, age blah-di-blah) and he just said, "OK". I think he was a bit surprised by the tears! And it has been fine - really it has. She SLEEPS!
I wish you lots of luck.

Edam

I do feel for you. I guess you won't be surprised (given what I have written below) to hear me recommend Relate? I know it's not easy living with a depressed man (oh boy do I know it ) regardless of anything else, and if your DH is sad and down, it could be good for you both to have an outlet where you can talk about the effects it is having on your family.

Is he having counselling as well as the ADs?