No sex, no choice - living with enforced celibacy - anyone else?

[IrritableGrizzly]

Now I know I'm not the only one as I've read a few threads recently about this subject, and I wondered if anyone who's also going through this would like to have a support thread so we can talk about it.

Here goes - I'm 35 and dh is 44. We've been together 14 years and have two sons. In the early years our sex life was brilliant; he couldn't get enough of me and we were quite adventurous. Now I know that sort of thing isn't sustainable and I could accept that, but now we don't have sex at all.

When we were ttc ds2 (17 months) he did make the effort, but it was purely a baby-making thing, not erotic at all, and now we have him dh has completely lost interest. He just doesn't want me. We tried once earlier this year but he couldn't keep it up, and seemed relieved when we gave up.

I have tried to talk to him about it so may times, and he's always full of the same excuses - he's so busy at work, always tired, of course he still loves me etc etc. He is quite overweight and is on meds for high blood pressure, which I'm sure affect his libido, but he won't make the effort to do some exercise and get fit (he gets home from work, eats his dinner in about 3 minutes, and then gets out the sodding laptop and starts working again.)

I really don't know what to do. I can't see myself living the rest of my life like this, and at the same time I can't imagine breaking up my family for such a selfish reason. But my God, I want to be fucked so badly, sometimes it's all I can think about. I asked him if he'd mind if I went out and had a one night stand - he said he would. How crazy is that? He doesn't want me but he doesn't want anyone else to have me. I don't want an affair, but just the knowledge that someone wants me, and the purely physical sensations...shit, I've almost forgotten what it's like.

Well, I seem to have gone on a bit and I don't even know if anyone's going to read it...never mind, I guess it helps to get it all out sometimes. If anyone does want to chat about this though, that would be really cool. Sometimes I feel like I'm alone in this, even though I know I'm not the only one.

Irritable Grizly - yeah, hope you don't mind but I copied and pasted a old post of mine from a previous thread cos i thought it was relevant.

Thanks Malifience, DH is one 3 drugs listed on your link!

Could you try showing your DH this thread IG?

Op - you have my sympathies. It's a difficult one, that's for sure. I don't think is an easy answer, depends on the couple. But you're certainly not alone, and there are lots of couples in sexless marriages or relationships on mumsnet, who will be nodding away as they read your post.

justgave up - thought your post sounded familiar Glad I'm not going mad!

Come on SGB, where are youuuu? We need you here!

I must say that I'm taken aback by these people who think that they have a right to enforce celibacy on someone else. If they don't want sex, fine. Not on for them to get the shits if their partner does.

oh, IG, fab post from JGU who speaks from bitter experience, sadly

I don't have any advice to offer you other than what's been given

but you are making too many sacrifices here

including the most fundamental one of being expected to give up your sexuality

I feel sorry for your DH, but really, this is not good enough

from what you say though of his lifestyle, I would dig a little deeper into whether there are any other enemies of your marriage eg. infidelity, or a past infidelity at least that is now crushing his physical affection for you

just a thought, and please don't take offence. It is just that there are few red flags in your posts

all the best to you, and if you feel you have no choice but to walk away, I feel you are fully justified

Does that help in the meantime, CheerfulVicky?

I think you need to let him know that this situation just isn't viable if he is unprepared to go for some help. If you don't give this situation a bit of a prod, I feel you might eventually end up having a hurtful affair, or just waste years trying and failing to be happy- neither of which is a desirable outcome. I wish you the best of luck with it, it sounds like a very painful situation.

I would add that as a married man, I can relate to the feeling and comments from Grizzly and Justgaveup. This situation works both ways...

You said your DH snores and you now sleep in seperate rooms.This happened to us, my DH had no sex drive, diabetes(I don't think yours has that)couldn't maintain erections and snored louder than anyone could imagine.I was lucky that my Dh wanted our sex life back,after 2 years of trying pumps,cavijac injections (OUCH!poor dh), viagra etc he was sent to the sleep clinic . They monitered his sleep over 3 seperate occasions and now he uses a CPAPS machine all night .No more snoring,no seperate rooms and he can more than maintain an erection!
I do hope you can sort this out

This is so sad. With a genuine desire to sort things out, you can get back on track, but both partners have to want to do whatever is needed, whether that means making lifestyle changes or seeing the doctor or whatever. I know things can work again because we have been there, done that and got the t-shirt as they say. But, we both had a genuine desire to sort out that side of our marriage. If your DH is not prepared to make the same level of effort in this as you are, then, IMO, he loses the right to your total fidelity. I Think it is desperately unfair that one partner holds all the cards when it comes to sex. It is not reasonable for either one of a couple to say' I don't want to/can't fulfil your sexual needs but will not allow you the freedom to have that need fulfilled elsewhere. I believe 100% in being faithful to my DH and I do expect the same from him, but I do consider that a healthy sexual relationship is and should be part of a healthy marriage and if one person withdraws from that part of the 'contract', then they no longer have the right to hold the other one to the 'remaining faithful' part of it.

Does your DH know just how awful you feel about this? Does he understand that it is something that could bring about the end of your marriage? ( I am not certain, but I believe that witholding sex can be regarded as unreasonable behaviour and therefore almost grounds for divorce). Maybe you have to be that blunt with him. Of course, if you do that you will have to be prepared that he might call your bluff. So I guess it depends how badly you want to have a full relationship with him or whether you are prepared to sacrifice your own happiness for his selfishness. Because , make no mistake, he is the selfish one here, not you.

I was going to make the same suggestion as Octavia. If your DH is snoring constantly at night he may well have sleep apnea. This will mean he is suffering from exhaustion and is in a vicious circle of being too tired to exercise, hence increasing putting on weight, increasing blood pressure and meds that make the erectile problem even worse. I know several people who have got a cpap machine and say it really does change their lives. Waiting lists for sleep clincs are massive but he really should go to GP and insist, or if you can afford it, go private. Don't want to give you false hope but it might really help him.

Things are not great really, as the sex thing seems to be casting a shadow over everything for me - I don't feel like making much effort with him as I feel like he's always rejecting me. We don't watch TV together as he works on his laptop every evening.

In the last month we've had two nights out together - this was for the first time in about 3 years so was a big deal for me. I took a lot of care over how I looked and thought I looked pretty bloody fab. Both times we had a nice time (one was to the Grand Prix, one was to a Cuban music concert) and we went for a drink afterwards. While we were out it felt like old times. Then we got home and he checked his emails and started yawning ostentatiously, so off we went to bed (separately.) No mention of sex.

In answer to ScaryFucker's question, there hasn't been any infidelity. THe only thing I can think of is quite often I question his parenting of our boys, sometimes in front of them. I know this is a bad thing to do, and you should always keep a united front, but I really don't like the way he is with them sometimes and as I'm the one who's there all the time I feel like I should be on their side.

He's not abusive or cruel, but he is very heavy handed with 7yo ds1 and comes across as authoritarian and insensitive. I've tried explaining in private that his approach is really not working, and gave him "How To Talk..." to read, but he's too busy for that..so I do feel forced to tell him straight off if I don't agree with something he's said. Do you think that something like this would be enough to put him off me sexually? I hadn't connected it before, as surely if he had sexual feelings toward me he may be annoyed about the other thing but it wouldn't stop him wanting me in that way. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know.

One other thing is I don't really find him attractive at the moment. I know this seems idiotic, complaining that he doesn't want me when actually I don't fancy him, so I want to make sure I phrase this properly. I've always fancied him like mad, even when he started putting weight on, even when the sex was getting less and less. But how long can you go on thinking about someone in that way when they are basically sexless and show no interest in looking after their appearance or health? If he made a change, started exercising and showed that he was actually a man with real man's thoughts and feelings, I know I would fall for him all over again, but right now it's just not there - I can't let myself feel like that, for my own self-preservation. I hope I've explained that okay.

Well, I've written an essay there - I hope I haven't scared everyone off!

not scared, no

and I don't think you picking up on his over-zealous parenting is the likely culprit

I am sorry to say this, but I think your relationship has run its course, tbh

you are just not into each other (to borrow a phrase)

how do you think he would react if you started a conversation about seperating amicably ? Perhaps he would be relieved ?

Sorry you are going through this.

To me , the bottom line is this : you can think your way through all the whys and wherefores of why he does not want to have sex, but that is helping him take responsibility for his side of the relationship.

Until he knows that this is unacceptable to you, he has no incentive to change. You are not being selfish. He is.

BTW, I am not unsympathetic to him, so sorry if it sounds that way.

Has anyone suggested Relate yet? They offer Psychosexual counselling as well as couple counselling and their sex therapists are very used to your situation (it's not uncommon!) and may well be able to help you... can you suggest this to your DH? I really think they may be able to help you.

Ignore scaryfucker, Im sure her intentions were good.But you've got to have been there.

You have my sympathies big time. My DH and I have not had sex for 18 months or more now. He is on meds for a long term condition which may or may not be an excuse. He has no energy generally 'due to his meds' which may or may not be an excuse too.

At the end of the day I love my DH as I think you do yours. Im not leaving him. Sex has to be pulled out of the equation since my DH is a good bloke, good dad.

But I do fantasise about an affair.Some days I can rationalise it as a 'It would keep us together' sort of thing. But I do also think these things get complicated. But I would love a rampant, guilt free, no ties shag-athon.

Probably hasnt helped...but I do at least know where you are comign from.

well cheers, oldernotwiser

you might be older, but sarcasm is not a valid response (and I very much doubt you are older then me)

I think you will find my opinion is as valid as anyone else's

and it comes from a sympathetic place, if you look at my posts further up thread

Really sorry scaryf, I didnt put that post very well at all. It does read as horribly dismissive I was actually only referring to the 'your relationship has run its course' comment since some of us do have good, strong but celibate relationships. I know tho that this can seem very odd to those who do have loving sex lives with their partners and so I guess I was just trying to say that you need to have been in that situation to understand how it can work, it doesnt have to spell the end.

But sarcasm really wasnt my intention, honest. I actually was, in my warped mind, simply putting another point of view! Having re read my post tho it does look like I was having a go. It was a very crappily put post. Will slope off now in an 'Eeek! Ive never offended anyone on MN before' sort of way....

All I can say is, IrritableGrizzly - are you me??
I didn't post about my situation because it wasn't at first sight similar to yours. Because I have stopped fancying my DP, so I thought nothing I could post would be relevant to you.

But it sounds like we are in EXACTLY the same situation. Blimey.

For me, there are enough positives to keep going - for now. DS loves him, I like hanging out with DP even though we are more like friends. It's normally quite calm and pretty alright. But I never know whats round the corner or what will happen: the future seems blank to me. I don't expect we will do this forever but I don't know what we will do. So I just live in the present 100%, and so long as the present is good, that works in a strange way. The times when I miss someone touching me with desire, or being made love to or whatever, yeah then I am unhappy. But I tell myself that it won't always be like this. It feels right to stay for now. I don't know if it always will. It's hard to say what will happen.

Relate didn't work for us, but might with you? We saw a regular counsellor not a psychossexual one. But as others have said, your DP needs to WANT to take care of himself, want to be closer to you. Sounds like he can't be bothered, and that must be very hurtful to you. Perhaps you could go to Relate alone, just to talk through your feelings. You might come to some conclusions of your own in a supportive environment. Not that MN isn't supportive We are groovy.

I wish you all the luck in the world with this. I know how lonely it can be. Like being single, with none of the perks, and all of the crap bits

no worries, olderbutnotwiser

nice of you to come back and apologise < offers hobnob >

I lived with enforced celibacy.

I really don't know how on Earth Ds2 happened.

In the end, the relationship fell apart. But then, I think exp's not wanting to have sex with me stemmed of not really wanting me.

And there is noting like feeling like an unpaid domestic donkey to make you feel unloved.

He used to tell me he loved me, but wouldn't, erm, put out. And I have a high sex drive.

Now I have a weekend boyfriend, who is miles away. But when I go to see him, I get mauled. And it's fantastic.

Hobnob gratefully received scary. Better that in my mouth than my foot, methinks....

To me , the bottom line is this : you can think your way through all the whys and wherefores of why he does not want to have sex, but that is helping him take responsibility for his side of the relationship.

Just looking back and realise my post it should read "... but that is not helping him take responsibility for his side of the relationship "

He needs to know quite how unhappy this is making you. (I speak as someone who used to be the one who avoided sex). I don't really want to go into that here, just to say that there is an opportunity there for him to feel better about himself and stop taking you for granted. It's not just about sex, it's about intimacy.