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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Please help, where do I go from here? If indeed you think I should go anywhere

94 replies

OnYGo · 13/09/2009 17:21

DH and I haven?t been getting on particularly well for a long time now, we haven?t been at each other?s throats but nor have we had a loving relationship. Basically we just haven?t made time for each other, haven?t been affectionate with each other and, really, haven?t been a couple.
A few weeks ago he announced that he wanted to leave. I persuaded him to talk, we realised that really we wanted the same things (a secure happy family unit) and agreed to both make an effort to improve our relationship.

Things were greatly improved for a while, then one day about 2 weeks ago he came home and told me he?d been looking at the nhs choices website and he thought I should get the implanon (one of the main reasons he has been holding back emotionally is because I want more children and he doesn?t). I agreed to look into it, said I?d look at all the options, talk to my sister who has it to find out more but I?d prefer not to do it immediately because I had only just stopped breastfeeding my youngest and wanted 2 or 3 months before I put more hormones into my body (I have reacted badly to the pill before). I made it very clear that I would get some kind of contraception after a) I?d had a chance to look at all the options in more depth and b) after no more than a couple of months of not being either pregnant or breastfeeding (my dc are very close together so have been one or the other for the past 4 years). He then said ok I?ll make you the appointment to get it tomorrow . I explained again that no I wanted a proper chance to research it and reiterated that I wasn?t refusing to get it, just it wouldn?t be immediately.

After that he stopped making any effort again, then on Tuesday as he was leaving for work his parting words were ?oh by the way I?m seeing the doctor to get a vasectomy today seeing as you haven?t done what I asked? then slammed the door.

Late morning I came down with a very bad d&v bug and was vomiting all afternoon to the extent that I fainted twice. DD called him to tell him that ?mummy is sick and sleeping with her head in the toilet? (I?d already phoned him to tell him I was ill and that I?d blacked out) and he called back an hour later to see if I was better before agreeing he?d come home. He eventually arrived home half an hour earlier than usual, so basically my three year old and one year old were unattended all afternoon because I was passed out in the bathroom and he still expected me to take care of them. (His job is very flexible so he could have come earlier without any trouble)

Wednesday morning he sent the dc in to me at 7am and expected me to get them dressed, breakfast while he got himself ready. He did this without even asking how I was. I managed to get dd dressed but the smell of ds? nappy sent me straight to the bathroom again and I then felt very dizzy again so lay back down. He came back in and said ?oh haven?t you give them breakfast yet?? took them downstairs, fed them, dropped dd at preschool then went to work.

Wednesday evening he went to the pub with a neighbour came home around 11.30 then said he felt sick at around 1am. He was sick once then went back to sleep. I meanwhile got up to ds twice, dd once and had to clean his sick from all over the bathroom where he had somehow sprayed it everywhere. All this while still feeling very ill and being extremely dizzy and weak.

Thursday morning he felt much better so went to work though he did come home a bit early feeling sick. I felt sorry for him because I knew how ill I had been feeling and how awful it was so fetched him drinks, toast etc as well as looking after dc and doing some basic housework. I got up four times to dc in the night then got up with ds at 6.30.

I was finally not feeling sick on Friday morning (though exhausted) so didn?t really mind getting up but when it got to 10.30 I started to feel a bit pissed off that he was still lying in bed. When he came downstairs I said (yes, sarcastically)?enjoy your lie in?? and he started yelling and swearing at me saying ?aren?t I allowed to have a lie in to recover? I?m still feeling sick you know, didn?t I do everything around the house on Tuesday evening when you were sick? Are you telling me I didn?t help out?? Trying to calm things down I said ?yes you did, I really appreciate what you did, I only meant that I haven?t had a chance to lie in and recover myself, I wasn?t having a go at you, I?m just tired and jealous? A bit later on he sat dd up on the kitchen worktop, she kicked her feet and smashed my mixing bowls onto the floor. As I went in to clear it up he lifted dd down from the side and put her on the floor. I yelled ?don?t put her on the floor she?ll cut her feet? wiped off dd?s feet then carried on sweeping it up. Then I asked dh to make sure he wiped his feet before going out of the kitchen to make sure he didn?t walk any shards through the house. He walked through the house before wiping his feet, I muttered something along the lines of ?or you could just ignore me? and hoovered where he?d walked. He came right up in my face and yelled that he hated me and that it was over. I felt physically threatened at this point.

A few minutes later he came upstairs, on the phone to the letting agent, telling them that our marriage had broken down and enquiring about getting out of our lease early. I thought maybe he was faking the call so went and asked him if he had really been speaking to them. He said yes and I asked why he had done that without us at least discussing things. He said he had nothing to say to me and that he had made his decision and I just had to take it. He then yelled again that he hated me.

I quickly put nappies for ds, our toothbrushes and a couple of other bits in a bag and walked out with the dc. I didn?t know where I was going or even if I was staying out but just had to get away. He then came to the door and yelled ?thanks for taking my kids away from me on my day off, I will never forgive you for this?. Both dc started crying for daddy and I was feeling such a mess that i didn?t even know where I was going plus I realised that by walking I was as bad as him so I went back.

During the course of the day I asked him several times to talk to me, each time he said he didn?t want to talk about it and his mind was made up so there was no point. I asked if he really meant it and he said did I think he would joke about something like that, I said no but I wondered if it was just a reaction and he would change his mind once he?d had a chance to talk about it. He laughed and said if i thought that I was crazy and that it was a ridiculous suggestion.

He went out that night and feeling very alone and needing some support and advice I text a couple of my closest friends and my sister to tell them that he wanted to leave. ALL of them replied saying they were sorry and giving suggestions of how to get him to talk to me. They all said they hoped it wasn?t final.

Yesterday I asked again if he was ready to talk. He said it wasn?t a case of being ready but he had nothing to say but I could talk if I wanted. All the time I was talking he avoided looking at me and stared at the tv. In the end I asked him to please look at me because I found it really difficult to talk to him when he wasn?t looking at me and I thought it was actually quite disrespectful. He said that was why we had no future because I treated him like a child. I said that i didn?t consciously do that and sorry if the way I spoke made him think that. He still didn?t make eye contact. I felt like everything I was saying he was twisting back to be my fault eg I didn?t feel like we had had equal chance to recover from our illness, it?s my fault for not showing him I appreciated him helping; I felt like he was bullying me into getting the implant, my fault for not just going and getting it etc. We finally agreed that it was worth giving it another chance and the rest of the afternoon passed fairly quietly. I got dinner ready and me and the dc sat down waiting for dh to come and join us. After about 5 minutes he stormed in and shouted ?I see you told all your friends what happened, I looked through your phone, why did you do that, how dare you tell them, it?s none of their business. I never want to see any of them again? . DS started crying so I picked him up and dh said see you don?t even have an excuse, you know you were completely unreasonable. I said that no I didn?t think it was wrong to tell a few friends that my husband wanted to leave me and that i had turned to them for support when something life changing happened to me. He then went to storm out raised his fist and said get out of my way before I hit you (I was still holding ds). As he left he called ?Now you?ve made me shout and swear in front of the kids and I said I?d never do that and it?s all your fault?.
All morning he completely blanked me then this afternoon I got him to talk to me and he basically says that it is my fault, he does x because I say y, he does z because I?ve done a etc. He says even if we do stay together he never wants to see any of my friends or my sister again. We are supposed to all be going on a family holiday next month but he says he isn?t going and if I go he knows I?ll just be telling them everything about him . He thinks I completely overreacted to tell anyone, whatever he says to me now he knows he is really saying to all my friends. When I tried to explain to him that I don?t tell them about every argument we have but that to me him leaving me was different he just cut me off and said that i should have known he hadn?t fully decided and that I have humiliated him and made him feel naked. He is now back to ignoring me and I know he is fully capable of keeping it up for months, after dd was born he didn?t speak to me for almost a year other than to ask how she?d been that day, if I?d been to m&t, if we?d had dinner etc-so conversation yes, but no real communication.

So where do I go from here? On the one hand, I don?t want to break our family up, on the other I can?t see us ever being happy together unless things majorly change. I?m sick of being blamed for everything and it always being my fault.

OP posts:
BalloonSlayer · 14/09/2009 13:22

If you do find yourself having to speak to someone from the local branch, if you mention your fears about this friendship they will make sure that things are OK.

It must be in their training that one day someone they know, or the wife of someone they know, is going to pass through their doors, and that they will be expected to deal with it professionally.

AnyFucker · 14/09/2009 14:10

OnYGo, I would like to answer for MrsBoogie in case she doesn't come back to this thread

I am sure she meant to type SAHM (stay-at-home-mum), rather than SHAM

A typo, but obviously with very different connotations

cestlavielife · 14/09/2009 15:33

go to a counsellor yourself

read the lundy bancroft book

call womens aid national helpline

one of the key things for me was being told that "abusers do not abuse 24/7" - it is cyclical, they use the "being nice" phases too.

and he can be a good dad - but live separately.

but be prepared - these people dont go quietly... you will need support. he will continue to blame you...

my ex was always "you are full of sh$t" you do this you do that - clearly he was unhappy with the relationship logic would dictate that an amicable separation then on the cards...but no - because it was about control.

he is still calling me names on tthe back of msgs about arrangements with the dcs (so i have to read the msgs) etcet cetc...bl;aming me for everything...etc.

but i can see light ... and certianly is a heck of a lot better than living under same roof

OnYGo · 14/09/2009 21:27

Did I type me leaving him? I thought I put that HIM leaving wasn't an option. As in I didn't think he would just agree to go that easily...

Anyfucker, I knew that (hence the wink), but thanks anyway for clearing up a possible misunderstanding

OP posts:
AnAuntieNotAMum · 14/09/2009 22:07

Have you had a read through the thread on narcissistic personality disorder? It's a long one but you might find it very useful. Of course one can't diagnose your H on the basis of this posting but there seem to be strong traits there, what jumped out at me was him blaming others, ability to cut off from others...and most of all, the possibility of an absolute inability to tolerate shame, hence his extreme reaction to your friends and family knowing how he is behaving. I say this because this type of person is extremely difficult to treat in therapy and would need a really skilled person to deal with them.

Meanwhile, for you. I'm outraged at this man puking all over the bathroom and leaving it for others to clean up/get infected!! Talk about a graphic representation of the way he is treating you! I'd say you really need to be asking yourself why you accept you not being properly looked after when you're ill, yet make excuses for him all of the time. I'm also wondering why you had a second child with a man who was so unspeakably rude and cruel to you for a year after your first baby?

It sounds great news that your sister says that she will support you.

theworldsgoneDMmad · 14/09/2009 22:48

He can make as many appointments for you as he likes. You're not obliged to go to them and with any luck, the clinic will clock on that he's a nuisance and raise a red flag.

If he really wanted a vasectomy, he'd get one without even having to mention it. He mentioned it because he hoped you'd back down so that he'd change his mind. Call his bluff. As lovely as I'm sure your existing DCs are, if you want to have more, you don't want them with him!

Don't wait on him, ill, or well, ever again.

Walking wouldn't have made you as bad as him. That's just what he wants you to believe.

Him being allowed to tell the letting agent your marriage had broken down, yet you not being allowed to tell your friends about it, is unfair. Of course he doesn't want to see any of them ever again: he's ashamed and rightly so.

Him not joining you on the family holiday is fantastic news in my book Very presumptuous to think you'd all be talking about him though!

Arcadie · 16/09/2009 17:59

OnYGo I just want to cry for you. I'm so sorry it's come to this. Will write more when I haven't got a house full reading over my shoulder and will pray for some wisdom for you in the mean time....

Hope you're safe currently.

claraquack · 16/09/2009 19:08

I wish I still lived in the UK as we were close to where you are and I could come and see you in person.

Reading your post, my the lasting impression is that you are living with a bully. And if you don't think he is going to change then you have to get away from him. C, the most telling piece of information for me is what you said about him before the dc's were born. A lot of marriages do go through a bad patch when you have babies, but this is obviously a behavourial pattern which started long before then.

I think there is some really good advice on this thread. You need to get your head sorted out before you do anything, but I do think you need to do something. Going to see citizens advice is a really good idea, find out about what rights you have to the house etc. Getting the full support of your sister and other family and friends is another good idea. Is there anyone you could go and stay with for a bit while you try and decide what to do?

Don't worry too much about the impact splitting up would have on the dc's. Of course it will be hard but children this age ARE adaptable and hopefully they will still get good contact with their dad. As others say, better that they have two happy parents living separately than two unhappy ones together.

I'm sorry I can't offer any more advice than this. If you need to "talk" more contact me on FB, I can offer you emotional support if nothing else. Thinking about you, x

suey2 · 16/09/2009 19:23

I can only agree with all the other posts: you have to get away from this man. Your children willbe better off for it. Must be hideous: you sound totally worn out. Your self worth also seems to be in your boots. Nobody deserves to be treated like this.

brightredballoon · 16/09/2009 19:32

Oh OnYGo, this is just awful reading what you have had to put up with. I know leaving wont seem like a possibility right now but that's probably because at the moment you still have things planned like family holidays away, no plans to leave. If you take the steps now to put yourself in a good position then when the time is right you can leave. Giving the passorts to a friend is a really good idea, he sounds very unstable and I would worry he would go back to his country of origin with the kids.

One thing is for sure though you are a great Mum and noone will take that from you. You will look back in years to come and be so glad you reached out and got things sorted. Loads of hugs, thinking of you.

macdoodle · 16/09/2009 19:41

oh OnYgo It sounds awful but I do understand this worrying about over reacting - I still do it 2 years after seperating !
I am so sorry but your H is an abusive aggressive bully, how is he a good parent - I missed that bit totally
He has no respect for you or your family, and bullies and threatens you
He is trying to isolate you from your friends and family!
Please please read some of the EA threads on here, abuse doesnt just involve hitting!!

And I tell you the one thing I do agree with him, the very very last thing you want to do is have another child with this excuse of a man Go and have the implanon and when you meet a lovely wonderful man who loved and respects you (and trust me they are out there), you can have it taken out!

You have 3 choices I see - (1) stay....be miserable and worn down and sad forever, let your beautiful DD and DS imprint a horrible abusive relationship for their furture relationships

(2) make him leave - not so easy I know have been there

(3) leave yourself - you may not think you can but you can!!! Your family will support you, you will be able to claim more as a single parent and it will be fine - it will be!!

FWIW my XH is actually a better parent now we are not together!

You know who I am, I have been in a similar position to you and I truly know how hard it is...feel free to CAT or FB me!!

macdoodle · 16/09/2009 19:44

Counting oh FGS, I am really pleased you sorted your marriage out I really am, I am glad your H has changed!

But please stop expecting that everyone is the same, the very worst thing to do in a realtionship like this is go to Relate - he will totally blame the OP, get the counsellor to collude and agree with him, make it all the OP's fault and give him carte blanche to carry on, with the poor OP feeling even more that it is all her fault and there is no way out!

spiralqueen · 16/09/2009 22:00

OnYGo - I don't think you can take much more and that will make everything even worse for the DC's. I'd also be worried about DH's bullying escalating.

Do try and get away like Clara says and there is loads of useful advice on the thread.

Take care of yourself and your DC's. You are a lovely person and you deserve so much more than this.

BouncingTurtle · 17/09/2009 07:48

OnYGo,

I'm so sorry you are going through with. Your H is using emotional blackmail on you and is bullying you, and you and the dcs should not have to out up with this. As primary carer you do not have to leave your home.

I really think you should seek legal advice to find out exactly where you stand

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Arcadie · 17/09/2009 11:05

Hey OnYGo. It does sound as though you've given this your best shot... is there anything else you can try? Would his family have any sway with him?

It is just so sad to see anyone's relationship break down and I would love to be able to come and sit you both down and try to help you fix it, but it doesn't matter how much YOU want to fix things if he really doesn't I guess.

THe part that worries me is the "you've pushed me to behaving like this" - I have NO first hand experience of violence in a relationship, but it sounds like the kind of phrase that a very physically abusive partner would give to justify his actions.

He is being a bully. He is behaving like a child. He ISN'T being a good Dad or a husband who is supposed to love his wife more than himself. He is NOT being true to any vows or promises that you made together.
If a calm (mediated) sit down talk it all through and come up with a plan to help you both isn't going to work then I guess you have to go. Because HE is no longer in your marriage, HE seems to have emotionally abandoned you a long time ago and if he won't make any steps to put it right then you can't go on. I feel sick typing it because I really believe that marriage should be forever and that two people can work out any issues. But that's the problem, it's not TWO people trying. It's only you and you can't do it by yourself. Get all the support you can from those near you. Get the legal advice and calmly explain to him what you have to do.

And tell us how you're doing, we're worried for you. Love Arcadie

hettie · 17/09/2009 12:09

Macdoodle- Relate counsellors have very specific and comprehensive training to ensure that this does not happen. In fact they have a very clear mandate on how to deal with emotionaly or physicaly abusive partners, none of which involves colluding with anyone or blaming anyone. Not only that, but they have regular supervision and and reviews of their work with couples.
If you or anyone has had the kind of experience you are describing then the counsellor in question will have broken very clear guidlines and needs to be reported.

becklespeckle · 17/09/2009 14:08

OnYGo, so much to say here but in general I agree with most of the other posters, he is a bully and his behaviour will most likely get worse. By telling you it's over and then changing his mind (after making you suffer) he feels he has control over you. Theres a good chance he doesn't actually want to leave but he wants you to beg him to stay.

WRT contraception, if he doesn't want anymore children then he should deal with it and not force you to. He is also using this to bully and punish you.

It also sounds as though he is trying to cut you off from your friends and sister - of course he doesn't want you to tell them he's being a shit! Isolating you from people who are close is another way of controlling you.

Raising a fist to you while you are holding DS is shocking, IME violence starts off as threats but gets worse a little at a time, you can't make allowances for it, particularly not in front of your DCs.

Bits of his behaviour could be forgiven if they were one offs but put them all together and they do amount to bullying.

I hate to see a family break up but from what you say it sounds as though he is not really a part of your family - no support or consideration at all. Your DCs will probably have better quality time with him if you were apart, sadly this often seems to happen when relationships break down. More to the point you could relax, be yourself and look after your DCs with the support of your friends and family.

From someone who has been in a relationship with a man like this (albeit a long time ago and no DCs involved) please don't stay for the sake of the DCs or a 'nice home'. Look into yourself and see what you want, work out if it is possible and if not, find another way - happyness (and family) comes in all different guises.

xxx

Doctorskidaddle · 18/09/2009 13:52

OnYGo

Only just seen this So so sorry you are going through this. You know you can come and stay with me if you need to - I really mean that. I am not too far away and have a spare room. I know you have your sister but if for any reason you need to leave and have nowhere to go, just let me know.

I think you have had really good advice on here and it is very clear what everyone thinks. You have given it your best shot, his behaviour is becoming increasingly aggressive and I absolutely agree with everyone that you need to leave.

Like someone else said, you are a fantastic mum, you have two beautiful children and no-one can take that away. I'm sure it doesn't feel like it now but you can leave and you can make a new life for yourself and your DC. Get legal advice, leave the house (if he won't leave) and take all the support and help you can from friends and family. You will get through this and find happiness and you will be so pleased that you have.

Please keep us updated and good luck xxx

buzzybee · 19/09/2009 05:26

OnYGo Beckle is spot on as usual.
When I read your post it brought back all sorts of memories for me and I have to say that what shone through for me was you asking permission to leave. And you absolutely do have - it sounds like you have quite low self esteem at the moment but you have to believe that YOU can do it and that your kids will still have a great relationship with both of you even if you are living apart.
You may also find that once you say "yes I agree" the tension goes out of the atmosphere and you can sit down and fairly rationally discuss how to make it happen.

OnYGo · 21/09/2009 13:13

Hi everyone and thank you for all your responses and support.

Attila I'm sorry if you feel that I am putting up self made barriers by not wanting to contact WA locally. It isn't that I am not being proactive, but it really is a difficult situation. I will contact them if I have to, but I'd rather try to do it without involving them if I possibly can.

A couple of sites that I've looked at have said how important it is to get the support of family and friends and to make sure they know the full story so that they can help in the right way. I've told my sister everything, and some of my friends, as well as some people who 'know' me on MN. I fully expect these people to give me a kick up the backside if I do lose focus.

Already that is helping me, I have had a tendancy to assume that I have overreacted once an argument has passed, to gloss over anything that I have felt is abusive and to feel that things aren't so bad really. Starting this thread was extremely difficult for me and I was fully expecting a whole host of replies taking his side. Seeing that most of you are actually horrified by his behaviour is stopping me from accepting it and glossing over it.

I am going to CAB tomorrow to find out about money, housing etc. There is a WA person there at the same time so I may speak to them if I need to. I was going to go last week but he had a meeting in the same building so I didn't dare.

Housing will probably be the hardest because so many rentals are no dss but I do at least have a deposit and my sister is willing to act as guarantor if it will help.

OP posts:
cheerfulvicky · 21/09/2009 13:23

Hullo OnYGo,
I have been following your thread, and you can add another vote to those appalled by his behaviour. I just wanted to mention about rentals: you may find you have no problem in that area - especially with a guarantor. And maybe even without one. When I moved out for a bit earlier this year, I found the rental market had changed dramatically. It is flooded with people wanting to rent their property because they cannot afford to sell it, and they are needing to be increasingly competitive to secure a tenant. This often involves being open to DSS where before there was no need to consider it. So, don't lose heart! You may well find a place easily. Chin up.
x

Doctorskidaddle · 23/09/2009 11:38

Hi OnYGo,

How did it go at the CAB? That is great you have your sister fully behind you. Could you stay with her for a while while you get something more permanent sorted?

Well done for being so strong and going through with this - you should be very proud of yourself x

claraquack · 23/09/2009 19:13

OnYgo - I agree with skid, well done for doing this. I hope it went well with CAB, remember we're all there for you and happy and willing to give you that proverbial kick up the backside if you need it x

OnYGo · 24/09/2009 10:50

Hi

CAB was ok, the man was a bit vague and wishy washy to begin with, gave me lots of leaflets and talked about Relate and solicitors.

Then he looked at benefits etc for me and said I needn't worry about money because I should be entitled to full benefits (he also said I should get the highest rate of CTC too which surprised me because I didn't think a single sahm would get ctc-anyone know?).

Basically he said I could do one of three things
1)Get H to move out
2) Move into a refuge and they will help get everything organised
3) Move out and start up on my own- I can claim benefits from the date I leave and they will backdate them to that date though it will take a few weeks for them to come through.

I am entitled to claim for 2 bedrooms, I've been looking at places on rightmove both here and in the SE but most 2 bed places have one small double and one single-I suppose the dc could share the double and me have the single but it's not ideal, especially as ds still ends up in with me quite a bit. Need to keep my eyes open for somewhere with 2 decent sized bedrooms-I know they do exist!

OP posts:
buzzybee · 24/09/2009 12:00

That's great OnYGo - you've taken the first step.
Do you think you could stay with your sister until the benefits kick in?
I'm sure you'll find a decent 2br place eventually!
Keep positive and we're all behind you.

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