SIL does not let her children play outside - they are pale and miserable.

[talking]

Briefly, my SIL is obsessed by cleaning.
I briefly visited her today and left after 20 minutes.

Her 4 children have been indoors all day - watching TV. They are all under 13. They have a garden and a patio.

Their mother is scared of the outside world.

The oldest has just started her period and she is having cramps. Her mother would not let her do anything today and gave me the impression that periods are an illness. She was indoors all day and I said that fresh air and walking in the garden would help.

My DH (we are married to brothers) will not say anything - despite being a medical Dr - and I have been warned off saying anything cos I will be "talked about" behind my back. The family refuse to see that there is a problem.

What can I do to help these poor children?
The mother is passing her phobia onto them.
They are already being laughed at by their peers.

Hi talking

Fair enough with 4 dc's it's a lot to cope with. What about her DH would she leave them with him for an hour or so? Does she have any time off?

Does her DH have any say in what happens to the DC's, would there be any way to arrange for him and a couple of the grandparents to throw her out of the house for a couple of hours off? Perhaps a bit harsh and a bit of a shock, come to think of it for her.

I do think the kids need to get out more but it's finding a way round it that is the problem. Do they all go to school? At least you know they'll be out and about there.

Good luck and I hope a solution is found.

Hi. Whilst i agree that she has to want help,before anyone intervenes, the dc are still caught up in this situation.
As an adult, she can choose to stay indoors, and try to deal with her anxities, or ignore them.
But, I think whomever you are talking to, are missing the point-it is not just your SIL that is being affected-what if she refuses help all the while the dc are growing up? Her difficulties should not become her dcs problems.
My SIL has been abusing subtances for a long time now, and it has affected her mental health badly-she is not in touch with reality much of the time. If it was just her, fine-she is an adult. But, she has 2 dc who have/are being affected by her choices. One can only listen to so much info. before making a decision that someone needs to intervene. This has now happened, and outside agencies have become involved-not for her sake-she refuses to change, but for her dc.
I dont know how you will choose to proceed-maybe your SIL will open up to you, but it is the dc that really need the help.

The children go to school but do not do any after-school activities. They did have swimming lessons for a term. I don't know why this was discontinued. Maybe it was the cost. It may have been that the mother and children needed a lift to get to the pool and a lift back.

Unless her husband is willing or able to intervene, then the situation will not change. I cannot act alone.

The professional body who I spoke to said not a matter for social services as children are not abused and are going to school - it's more a case of a distressed mother who needs help. They have no grounds for entering the case.

It sounds like your SIL needs some community psychiatric nursing support really urgently. I wonder if you/your dh could write to her GP, if you know which practice she goes to. Of course they shouldn't discuss her with you, but information like that is definitely taken on board in any decent practice, and in some practices they might write her a letter saying it has been a while since they saw her and ask her to pop in for a review, which might end in a referral. Practices do vary in how they would react though.

Perhaps an organisation like homestart could provide some support - a volunteer could help her take the kids out so she feels more confident. www.home-start.org.uk

before you speak to the NSPCC and escalate things, which may lead to SS getting involved etc.. i think you need to speak to your BIL about it. it clearly sounds like these are big and deeply entrenched issues and a gradual approach may be much better than a more dramatic/interventionist one.

I spoke to NSPCC (the body I referred to) earlier today. They actually don't want any identifying information when you first call.

I think contacting her surgery is a good idea. We attend the same practice.

The thing with entrenched difficulties is that it can be easier for people to ignore it than deal with it - as they may not know what resources are available to help and may lack the skills to access these resources - even making a phone call is a huge step.

The youngest is at full-time school, so Homestart isn't an option. I was recommended Homestart by Mumsnet and I had a volunteer help me for about 10 months - wonderful, wonderful woman .

Agreeing the with Mystic - it sounds to me like the appropriate first step is a major intervention with her H. What is his attitude to all this?

Forgot to mention that when SIL has been to my house on two occasions, she has said that she has a stomach-ache. I asked her if she had breakfast, she said no - only coffee. I offered her fruit, toast, biscuits, but she refused.

I think I will take DD to her house, expecting her to be tired and the children to be indoors, so I'm not shocked at what I see, and simply find a time when we are alone to say to her, "I'm worried about you, you've lost so much weight. Is there anything I can do?".

Her H won't discuss matters with me - I'm viewed as an outsider by DH's blood relatives.

Forgot to say that DH is from another country and they speak their mother-tongue in front of me, despite me saying repeatedly to DH that I don't like it, as I feel excluded. If MIL is not there, then no excuse not to speak English.

You can call social services and ask for an anonymous consultation. During this call you can tell them the details of the case but don't have to give them identifying details of yourself or anyone concerned. They will then suggest the best course of action and whether or not it is something they can deal with. The fact that one of the children has had blood tests due to underweight should be a concern to them, as would the lack of social interaction when they are not at school. This needs to be reported. You have no idea hat else could be going on and have a duty of care for the children.

I totally agree: I do have a duty of care and I will not let this matter drop.

The ironic thing is, the parents took all 4 children to Europe for a few days on a driving holiday. I find the idea of a holiday with 4 children a lot more taxing than going to the park!

I don't know... the idea of calling SS makes me quite uncomfortable tbh. it seems quite obvious that your SIL has mental issues- depression, OCD, who knows. quite clear that she needs help, but if SS were to intervene you risk creating a lot of upheaval and recrimination whcih might not necessarily be beneficial.

I think you should at least discuss this possibility with your DH, and agree a course of action with him... sure you're seen as an outside by his family but surely not by him?

I've just read the thread and come to the same conclusion as a few others that sil has significant mental health problems that are affecting the children and they all need help.

You say that dh does not want to interfere as it were. Can you lay it onto dh that this is also his business and his duty of care towards his brother and family. It is likely your bil recognises that there is a problem but either feels powerless to help his dw or is ignoring the situation.

From what you describe, the childrens physical health is starting to be affected. Can you get your dh to recognise this - as a dr that may start to trigger alarm bells.

I also wonder if your ils are from a culture that views mental illness as a weakness and a stigma? Perhaps they all recognise their is a problem but choose to bury that thought as it would be a source of shame?

From what you say I think trying to support your sil as you hae said already is a good idea, but you also need to start persuading dh that this is a problem that he should be supporting his db over. He does not need to say anything to his dm so therefore there would be no talking.

Hope that didn't ramble too much and I think your sil is fortunate to have someone who actually does care about her and her familt

family that is

Have said to DH today that SIL has lost a lot of weight. He agrees with me. Maybe he has said something to his brother but brother has not done anything.

Another thing: I went with SIL and her 4 children to park during wintertime. When we got indoors she took a knife and scraped the shoe-soles clean, going into the nooks and crannies. It was a cold day and I would have put the kettle on before doing anything else. The shoes didn't have mud on them.

Inlaws (incl DH) view mental illness or needing help from an outside resource as a shame. I have been told different things about family events from different people.

If your DH is a GP/medical Dr surely he must realise that not getting enough weight bearing exercise, sunshine and proper nutrition before the age of 20 (iirc) is storing up health issues - such as osteoporosis - for the future.

This may be a less contentious way of addressing the issue as it sidesyeps SIL's obvious mental health issues and the fact she is damaging her DC's MH as well.

Unfortunately, DH is reluctant to intervene.
I don't know if he has tried to and has been ignored or if SIL has ignored him.

Am getting increasingly worried about the situation.

10 year old (who had a blood-test as underweight) was lying on her bed. She pulled back the duvet and smoothed and pulled the sheet straight. It looked fine to me. Maybe I'm over-reacting about this but given the context, maybe not.

Same 10 year old was told off for "making a mess" for using a pencil eraser while sitting at the table.

The overall feeling I get when I'm there is that the children cannot do anything as it "makes a mess".

If your SIL's a foreigner in the UK, this could make her fears worse, as she probably feels very isolated.

If the family doesnt want outside help, then its fairly difficult to force it on them. You can help a lot, be being part of your nieces/nephews lives, and letting them see your (different) outlook on life.
btw, I also have 4 children, eldest being 12, and it really isnt that hard to take 4 out. The eldest one has to look after the youngest.

What's your BIL's role in all this? Why isn't he doing something about it?

Totally agree: Oldest one should look after the youngest but I can't see SIL letting her do this.

Don't know if BIL has tried to deal with all these issues or if he's stuck his head in the sand (maybe he doesn't know what to do, maybe she won't listen to him, maybe she's unwilling or unable to change).

Her 8 year-old has said to me that I take DD out and has noticed the difference in her home life and my home life.

Her girls have long hair cos MIL thinks it's feminine, despite it being a lot of work for SIL (washing and drying) and 2 of them want shorter hair. Shoulder-length is not short! (Have told DH that DD is not having hair to her waist). Seems to be a lot of control issues here.

DH said BIL was coming around to look at our building work. I told DH I was worried about SIL. I told him that when she came round to me during the wintertime, she said she had a stomach-ache, hadn't eaten but refused fruit, toast, biscuits, anything I offered her. He refused to talk to his brother. I went upstairs as I didn't want to see BIL as I was so angry.

I asked him why BIL wasn't taken children out today (it's sunny and warm in this part of the country). DH said that his brother works hard and doesn't have energy to take his children out!