*UPDATE* on the DP 'finding himself' trip to India. We had 'the talk', did not go well...

[stellamel]

Original thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=relationships&threadid=799173-DP-is-going-on-39-finding-himself-39-trip -to

....went worse than imagined

It started off all nice and calm, well on my part anyway. I asked if I could chat about a few worries I had regarding the trip, which he grudgingly agreed too, he didn't see what needed to be discussed, as I'd already agreed to the trip. Anyway I pushed on regardless. I asked him straight out what his reason was for going, was it this make or break deal, this finding himself trip, but he said that was what I wanted it to be, it wasn't anything like that for him, he said he was doing the trip because 'he fancied it' , it was something he'd always wanted to do. When I pointed out that I didn't think he could justify an extended trip, to a danger zone, at a large expense just because he fancied it, he just replied 'why not?'.

Anyway it all went down hill really from there really, to condense a very long and exhausting evening into a readable post, he basically said it wasn't to be a one off, he intends to do more of these extended trips to exciting locations. He also refused my compromise of a couple of weeks a year to himself to go off climbing or running etc somewhere (a damn fair compromise I thought). He also refused to turn next year's India trip into a family affair, I tried to suggest we go as a family treking somewhere (we are big hiker types) instead of him doing India. He said no, if we could come on bikes, or possibly canoe down the Andes (what with a 6mth old and a 4 yr old!) then maybe, otherwise there was no point. When I pointed out that I didn't know anyone who thought this was a good idea amongst my friends and both our families (men as well as women), he said he couldn't care less and that everyone of his mates at work thought it was a brilliant plan, and they wished they could do it. He then said the most negative thing ever 'All men are held back by their families'!

He basically accused me of being selfish, of not understanding because I have no desire to travel, which I said was extremely unfair, I do and would, but I have to put my children first, and I am not even a earth mother type - I just know that my kids have to come first and foremost now, and that doesn't mean I have to sacrifice myself in the process, just that I have to work around the fact that I am a mother with responsibilities. I conceded that family life can be mundane and tedious, and I too feel the need to escape at times, but that can be done without fecking off for weeks and weeks to the other side of the world at great expense.

He is blatantly unaware that his going away heaps massive pressure onto me too, that I need to stay behind and hold the fort as it were while he just swans off.

He told me that this is how he is, that he is a free spirit etc and he'll never be any different.

I pointed out that it sounded like he was trying to escape being a parent and a partner, he replied by saying hypothetically speaking what would that mean if it were true. I told him it would make me feel very insecure and question his commitment to me, and was it worth carrying on. He got angry with that, and said he wanted to be in a relationship and be a Dad.

Ho hum, things deteriorated after that, much of the same going round in circles, with him not understanding any of my fears and worries. I gave up in the end and went to bed.

We are still ok, the trip is still going ahead, with my blessing (he's going regardless, I may as well be included in the build-up, so I can get a grasp of the risks involved and the precautions taken). I have a lot of thinking to do. I have discussed the above with a mutual friend and his mum, and feel that he his possibly never going to compromise and it's down to me know to decide what the future holds. His mum did say, he once came to her quite upset after another failed relationship, he told her he felt he would never be able to have a long term committed relationship because he couldn't find anyone who wanted the same as him. His mum told him that most women will happily coast along for 3 years, but after that they want some show of commitment. He just didn't get it.

So there you go, not positive, but at least I now have a better insight into how he works, and hopefully I can make a choice that is the best for everyone.

Rive, you will be able to go on that Trans-Siberia trip, just believe that you will and it will happen.
Does your council not provide any respite care? Is there no-one that can help you out?
Keep your dream alive.

Riven, not now of course, but maybe in a few years time. Can the trip be done in stages?
Do the bit closest to Europe first?

Its all been said really - but the only photographers I know have large private incomes.

OP it sounds as if he has sucked you into beliving that he is special and talented and therefore he isn't bound by the rules that apply to everyone else. Am I right in thinking you met him when you were both very young? I went out with someone like that once and it is painful realising that he is indeed a twonk and the rest of the worlds opinion of him is in fact correct. How this realisation must feel if you have built a family with such a man I cannot imagine. You have my sympathies and sound lovely.

Just wanted to add my tuppenth about the photography thing. i work for a major publisher who publishes books on photography (amongst other things), and i'm responsible for dealing with submissions that come in. They are full of people who go on round the world trips and think they are brilliant photographers. We never ever take any of them. EVER.

Having said that, a break can be good in its own right. Would he allow you to do the same while he looked after your children? (sorry if this has been answered before).

Of course he wouldn't allow it, wheniwish...., as stella isn't a free spirit like him and she wouldn't leave her kids for 6 weeks with an idiot who probably can't look after himself properly never mind 2 young children.

In fairness to the OP's DP, he did apparently state that she could do the same.

Except she wouldn't (of course)

Not being a free spirit ...

Sorry. Your DH isn't a free spirit. He is a free loader.

Hope you don't just upset yourself even more with your chat this evening. I have to say, I'd be fascinated to see what you wrote on your list of 'pros' abour your H. From what you've written, all I can see/hear are 'cons'.

Yes he did, but she would prob either have to take the children or get a nanny to look after them

thing is, she loves him, i'm sure he has many good characteristics. he needn't be the worst person in the world, it's enough that he's not the man that stella needs as a husband. these are monumental decisions she's making, i understand her reluctance to toss everything up in the air. but i think she is seeing that his behaviour is not on.

AitchTwoOh - spot on. stella's first thread was just her looking for a bit of support about her letting him go for what he thought wasn't a long time. It quickly became clear to her that almost all of MN and their DP's thought her p was way out of line.

Thus, from just wanting a bit of a pat on the back, she's now contending with the thought that he may be is a total arse, and that her relationship with a man she clearly loves is rather short of what most others would describe as an acceptable and functional. And that things are likely to get worse, not improve.

Though I would add the obvious - that stella's p is not only not the man she needs as a partner (as from this and the previous thread it's all too clear that he falls short of that), he's also not the man his DC's need him to be.

On the upside, even when posters have become somewhat voiceferous, I'm sure stella has seen that it all comes from a desire to help and support her through this time and beyond.

right, having had a good think about it:

what you have is a DP who is essentially telling you he doesn't want to grow up. Alot of men do this in various ways.

If he was travelling for a paid-up commission, he wouldn't need to be bankrolled by you: can he get such a commission? If not - then i don't think he should see it as any kind of entry into a new job. It is a holiday.

What is worse: i think if you could easily afford it, and it was 6 weeks only - then maybe i'd say it would be ok for him to go, if you were happy managing on you own - after all my DH went away for a while whilst my daughter was tiny (though for work) and i was fine with that.

i doubt there is any travel insurance for this, though there might be generic life/critical illness/accident insurance (read the policy careful for exceptions). Whatever. He would probably come back in one piece, having worried you sick. making a will (if you are not tenants in common on your house) is an essential. some have said ctake his name off you property - i doubt your morgage company will allow you to do this.

Many people work in careers that demand they leave home alot. It is difficult to live with these people as it means being alone for long periods of time. But he is asking something different to this, he's asking you to risk your financial security (which sounds tenuous already) in order for him to have a holiday. Not acceptable. He needs to -

1. agree that he will not ditch work for this. few employers are hiring now, it is not a good time to make yourself redundant. his employer may well be sympathetic and offer unpaid leave - if you can manage with that.

2)work out how he is going to pay for this.
expecting you to take out a loan isn't right - you will have two children to look after!! You should still be on your maternity leave when he's planning on going...and he should be supporting you as it his baby you are giving birth too.

getting in debt like this is not an investment. It is a liability.

furthermore - i think marriage is the very last thing you should look for now, as it increases your legal ties. (note: although it reduces your entitlement to maintenance from him in the event of a split, a decent man would help you anyway, a less decent man will not be forced to by the court judgement)

I am very very glad we had just paid off our car loan when my DH lost his job (6 months now, 1 interview for a job at half his prev salary!) - and that was a necessary expense.

Your Dh is 40? one thing i do know: the world of work is deeply ageist. If he loses his job, he will be lucky (however qualified etc etc) to get another one. Employers generally are only interested in sub-35 yo people who already have jobs.

now, he might come back, and settle into the pattern of home life again. Or not.

the fact he'd let you go on a similar trip is irrelevant - you wouldn't do it anyway!

i really feel for you as you are pregnant, its such a vulnerable time and (well, it felt this way to me) all your emotions are so much less in your control, it really is awful for you to have face this heartache now. >big hugs<

accusing you of selfishness....gahhhh. wrong.

but that's all pie in the sky, oom, it's never going to happen. it's a con, the whole thing, an engineered crisis. he's getting out, one way or another.

i stopped short at saying that he wasn't the dad his children need, juju, because, well, children all over the place put up with a lot of shite from errant fathers and still think they're wonderful. if stella were to ask her child about her father, i have no doubt that love would shine from her eyes. it's sad, and it patterns a lifetime of bad relationships for young children, but there you go, it's not that unusual. i do think it's possible to be a good father without being a good husband, therefore, but for stella to be happy i think she needs a good husband first and foremost, or to officially go it alone.

I think that the terms of this relationship are not what you previously thought they were.

I don't think the relationship therefore needs to end, just that you need to think through the newly established terms and you are quite right not to make decisions before you have had enough time to work this all out.

Give some thought to creating some safety nets for yourself. Hopefully you won't need them.

This whole thing isn't really about the trip to India anymore, is it?

It's unearthed a shed-load of things that Stella had not really acknowldeged/realised/knew about her dp, their relationship and herself.

In some ways the most recent converstaion they had (described in the OP) revealed a great deal of things that make the whole relationship much much more dodgy now. So it's a been a huge shock to her and there's a lot to take on.

But now a lot of information is out there now and sitting between them, whereas before it was implied prehaps in his actions but wasn't explicit. And there ahve been literally hundreds of voices on the past few weeks telling her their opinion of the situation, which is what MN is for, but which is slightly surreal as the unravelling of a relationship usually takes many more weeks, months, years, etc.

It is going to take a long time for Stella to absorb all this. The writing seems to be on the wall for the majority of us, but it's her decision and her life so she has to act the way she sees fit, bit by bit. It's really awful for her

@aitchtwooh

you may be right. in a way, it doesn't matter - if the op isn't ready to let go of her DP a million people on tinterweb won't change that. I hope we have made it clear she is not in the wrong at least, that she needs to look out for herself and her kids.

Aitch/OOM

I agree with OOM that if the relationship is coming to an end (a big if, which the OP doesn't seem ready for) it's absolutely vital that she shouldn't ever allow herself to guilty.

He doesn't make you happy. Why don't you be alone until you find someone who does. Or not. It isn't so bad, honestly.

Just wanted to send virtual hugs and support to Stella and her children, whatever her decisions now and in a year's time.

It's perfectly possible to be a good parent and a not-good partner (or indeed not the right partner for your co-parent).
But a good parent takes care to ensure that his/her children are reasonably supported financially.
It's possible to be a good, reliable, decent, honest person and parent despite wearing funny clothes, having tattoos, rejecting heteromonogamy, or not fitting into the corporate mundane world. You can take a boring job that has awkward hours, for example, and work hard at it while you are in work, in order to fund the rest of your life.
What you can't do and be a decent human being is expect other people to fund your creative, alternative, special life in return for you occaisionally remembering to say that you 'love' them.

Stella you have fallen in love with a man who doesn't really care or want what you want, and you will always be the one to get blamed if his life isn't as he wants it to be.

How does that make you feel? The trouble is he thinks he deserves your savings to be spent on him, or for you to shoulder the financial burden with him. This is what he expects.

It is fantasyland but you are the always going to be blamed if it doesn't go as planned, or if you're not as supportive as he thinks you should be.

The fact that you are pg, have responsibilities etc does not factor as real concerns to him if it is going to hold him back.

In fact he doesn't care. That is the real issue. You are, in his eyes, the selfish, unreasonable one.

You are causing him this misery by holding him back if you put any conditions on his trip at all. You also 'cause' the arguments, over it.

In light of his disregard for your needs and happiness,I would say your expectations of a happy ever after fantasyland too.

You cannot force someone to love you and care for you in the way that you want so your only way of holding on to him is by submitting to his demands.

You know as well as everyone here you will give give give he will take take take. That must have been in evidence in your relationship before now.

Do you think you have such a hold over him that will prevent him enjoying flings while away?

Do you have a hold over him at all? As what he's expecting of you now is sheer emotional blackmail.

He will use that on you for the rest of your partnership together to get you where he wants you. Of course he's a good looking, charming man it would never work otherwise.

I hope you can see through this blackmail to put you and your dc first as it is certainly not in his best interests to treat you kindly or value you as he expects you to value him.