*UPDATE* on the DP 'finding himself' trip to India. We had 'the talk', did not go well...

[stellamel]

Original thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=relationships&threadid=799173-DP-is-going-on-39-finding-himself-39-trip -to

....went worse than imagined

It started off all nice and calm, well on my part anyway. I asked if I could chat about a few worries I had regarding the trip, which he grudgingly agreed too, he didn't see what needed to be discussed, as I'd already agreed to the trip. Anyway I pushed on regardless. I asked him straight out what his reason was for going, was it this make or break deal, this finding himself trip, but he said that was what I wanted it to be, it wasn't anything like that for him, he said he was doing the trip because 'he fancied it' , it was something he'd always wanted to do. When I pointed out that I didn't think he could justify an extended trip, to a danger zone, at a large expense just because he fancied it, he just replied 'why not?'.

Anyway it all went down hill really from there really, to condense a very long and exhausting evening into a readable post, he basically said it wasn't to be a one off, he intends to do more of these extended trips to exciting locations. He also refused my compromise of a couple of weeks a year to himself to go off climbing or running etc somewhere (a damn fair compromise I thought). He also refused to turn next year's India trip into a family affair, I tried to suggest we go as a family treking somewhere (we are big hiker types) instead of him doing India. He said no, if we could come on bikes, or possibly canoe down the Andes (what with a 6mth old and a 4 yr old!) then maybe, otherwise there was no point. When I pointed out that I didn't know anyone who thought this was a good idea amongst my friends and both our families (men as well as women), he said he couldn't care less and that everyone of his mates at work thought it was a brilliant plan, and they wished they could do it. He then said the most negative thing ever 'All men are held back by their families'!

He basically accused me of being selfish, of not understanding because I have no desire to travel, which I said was extremely unfair, I do and would, but I have to put my children first, and I am not even a earth mother type - I just know that my kids have to come first and foremost now, and that doesn't mean I have to sacrifice myself in the process, just that I have to work around the fact that I am a mother with responsibilities. I conceded that family life can be mundane and tedious, and I too feel the need to escape at times, but that can be done without fecking off for weeks and weeks to the other side of the world at great expense.

He is blatantly unaware that his going away heaps massive pressure onto me too, that I need to stay behind and hold the fort as it were while he just swans off.

He told me that this is how he is, that he is a free spirit etc and he'll never be any different.

I pointed out that it sounded like he was trying to escape being a parent and a partner, he replied by saying hypothetically speaking what would that mean if it were true. I told him it would make me feel very insecure and question his commitment to me, and was it worth carrying on. He got angry with that, and said he wanted to be in a relationship and be a Dad.

Ho hum, things deteriorated after that, much of the same going round in circles, with him not understanding any of my fears and worries. I gave up in the end and went to bed.

We are still ok, the trip is still going ahead, with my blessing (he's going regardless, I may as well be included in the build-up, so I can get a grasp of the risks involved and the precautions taken). I have a lot of thinking to do. I have discussed the above with a mutual friend and his mum, and feel that he his possibly never going to compromise and it's down to me know to decide what the future holds. His mum did say, he once came to her quite upset after another failed relationship, he told her he felt he would never be able to have a long term committed relationship because he couldn't find anyone who wanted the same as him. His mum told him that most women will happily coast along for 3 years, but after that they want some show of commitment. He just didn't get it.

So there you go, not positive, but at least I now have a better insight into how he works, and hopefully I can make a choice that is the best for everyone.

Stellamel - you have created an addictive thread here! Everyone has had their say and offered their own stories. But this is your life and your decision. Regardless of whatever you decide, I think there is an awful lot of respect and admiration for you given that you are determined to try everything that you believe to be right and proper to come to an informed decision and not just do what everyone is screaming at you.

I assume from your post, that the conversation won't take place tonight as DP is going out - but I'm equally sure everyone's thoughts and hearts will be with you for when the time comes.

I agree it's not helpful to shout at Stella. She is listening to the advice here and accepting all our comments with good grace. Thanks for listening Stella!

"Did you not read ErikaMae's post? About how her mother's living with a man like your DP affected her? Do you realise she's a young woman in her late teens who is pregnant to a 33-year-old man and both of them have issues with self-harming and other mental health issues? THAT is what having a father like your DP can do to your kids."

Expat I think you were rather out of line. I won't deny that my anxiety and paranoia probably has roots to some degree in my father leaving, but I feel now as if you're taking my circamstances, and making them into an incredibly negative read. I am happy with being pregnant. I am happy with my partner. And 1 in 4 people suffer from mental health issues. 1 in 3 people self harm at some point in their lives.

Stella, I'm sorry people are lashing out at you. You have to do what you feel is right for you and for your children. Whether that is to stay with your partner or not, has to be entirely up to you. But I really hope you find some strength in how much you've managed to do so far, to talk to him again. And I really hope he comes round, and at least compromises. Keep your chin up

Would it help to imagine or play out the various futures that might be yours in your head? Pick a fixed point in time, not too far ahead - say three years hence - and think about what that might look like for you. But don't make the mistake of imagining a future that involves someone else playing a role they don't want to play and have clearly indicated that they are not prepared to play.

Your DP has mapped out his future for you. He will be a photographer, earning pin-money, and travelling away for a couple of months a year. He will be lucky if he earns enough to fund his jaunts.

You, on the other hand, will be earning the money to keep the house and children (and possibly him) afloat. You will be doing the practical stuff at home and you will be doing the majority of the parenting.

That might well be the future that you settle for, but you absolutely owe it to yourself and your children to take care of the financial practicalities even though it is probably the last thing on earth you feel like doing right now.

Erika, you are right. Because really, some people are meant for each other.

Custy put it best, as she usually does (and SGB, of course).

I'm off.

he's now 33 inches and 30lbs., Quattro, thanks for asking!

he is crawling, but currently watching his sisters jump off my stepper in the hallway and then run the length of it.

very entertaining.

Sorry for hijack but huge congrats to expat when I was last an MN junkie you were newly PG...awww that has made me smile

The comment "All men are held back by their families" was beyond awful. Stella, you are clearly a much nicer person than me. What a shame that nice intelligent women can end up saddled with such ungrateful selfish emotionally-retarded manbabies.

for stella. i think you are being a real brick about this, and very dignified. i do wonder, however, if your impressive fortitude is part of your problem with dp.

some men are held back by their families.
my dad, for instance, stuck 30 odd years in IT in several miserable jobs he hated. To provide for us, his children,keep the mortgage paid. Now my dad may have indulged in the occasional selfish moment in that 30 years, spending more than he should e.g on camera gear (with ensuing ballistic rage from my mother) but never handed in the towel in anything like the way your DP wants to.

Lets put it this way: reading your post, I respect my Dad far more than ever before.

would it be okay to x-post this to a photographers forum for their opinion? they tend to joke about wives and girlfriends good-naturedly, (objecting to the outrageous cost of lenses etc) but i think leaving their lady-love, work and everything would be viewed as particularly bad even by guys who would want to do it themselves.

then maybe with a tide of male opinion against him, he might rethink?

Stellamel, could you do me a personal favour and read "The Sociopath Next Door" by Martha Stout. Especially the case studies.

The parasitic lifestyle (willingness to live off others), inflated unrealistic life goals, lack of remorse, contempt for others who aren't as 'special' as him, need for stimulation and excitement, irresponsibility, and the way that he assigns his own behaviour to you (He accused you of being selfish - it's a classic sociopath mindfuck, he's doing something unbelievably selfish and his argument to you is that you're being selfish not letting him). Also the 'gaslighting' of saying everyone at work says it's a brilliant plan - so that it makes you sound like the only crazy person who thinks it isn't. But they didn't say that. Possibly when he said 'It's a brilliant plan, isn't it?' they mumbled 'Erm, yeah.', but that's not the same thing.

I'm not saying he's a sociopath - I've never met him and am not a psychologist. But I'd feel better if you read the book and decided for yourself whether he is. If he is, there's no point putting effort into saving the relationship, it's just a waste of time.

Good luck tonight stella. It sounds as if you have a good idea of what you really need to talk about. It is always easy to give objective advice but so hard to take when the person on the receiving end is you. Only you can know what parts of your relationship you accept and what you need to and/or want to change.

One thing I will say however is do not ever sell yourself short.

Stella, I do think you sound lovely, but I'm not sure you are particularly strong.

Strong women don't usually agree to something they fundamentally do not want to happen. You have been coerced into this decision by his emotional blackmail and you now have to extricate yourself from the bullshit.

Just get to the point, let him know that you are not happy with him going, that it will force your hand in terms of staying with him and that unless some kind of compromise is reached you cannot see a future.

Stop feeding him BS - he is not going on this trip with your blessing, he is clearly not going with your blessing, why are you continuing in this deceit.

I hope you are gaining strength from the strength of female opinion gathering at your back.

Sherlock Holmes, for example, was a heroine addict... (as well as being fictional, obv. And probably gay).

As many women as men are 'held back by their families'. If you have responsibilities, you have to abandon ridiculous, barely-thought out ambitions. But you don't have to give up on things you really, really want to achieve - just work out how you can do that while supporting and looking after your children. That's what grown ups do.

And anyway, ALL photographers are being 'held back' atm by the economy. That's real people who are trained and experienced and have been earning a living from the job. Those who merely think oh, I'd like to be a photographer have no chance at all.

Edam - does that mean Sherlock Holmes enjoyed a good Georgette Heyer novel

a heroin addict a heroine addict would be something quite different! 'Darling, you were absolutely heroic back there, rescuing all those people from the capsizing lifeboat, fancy a shag before I move on to the woman who saved dozens of children from that burning flat?'

James Bond is another good example - I'd fancy the idea of him, but he'd probably be crap at remembering to take the rubbish out or walk the dog

Good luck stella with planning a better future for yourself and your children.

Trans-Siberian would be awful, believe me.
I lived in Russia and the odd 24 hour journey was enough. All you see is birch trees, all you hear is dreadful Russian pop, all you see is people getting pissed. The toilets would also be like something from a horror movie.

I don't know about you but whenever I'm tearing my hair out with little dc, trying to keep the house straight, wishing for a decent night's sleep, highly hormonal, exhausted and pregnant then it would take superhuman effort NOT to feel utter SEETHING RESENTMENT for anyone who could swan back from a major jolly overseas, with that windswept look, lovely tan, tales of excitement and fun.

They would look at you with your boring domesticity and the only way for them to cope with such a mundane existence would be to plan another adventure.

If your dp does not enjoy spending quality time with you and your dc then it is because you all bore him and he realises that he does not want to waste his life being curtailed by a nagging woman and yowling kids.

It's his way or the highway kiddo. He knows he'll get his way because you love him more than he loves you.

maybe his friends said it was a great idea and wished they could do it as they know there is no point arguing the toss with a narcissicist who is willing to leave his family for weeks at a time and thinks that his partner and family hold him back?

I suspect actually his colleagues said: 'Blimey, is your wife OK with that?!' And some of them, especially anyone who knows what it's like to spend weeks on end on a motorbike, will be thinking 'what a tosser, he doesn't have a clue'.