*UPDATE* on the DP 'finding himself' trip to India. We had 'the talk', did not go well...

[stellamel]

Original thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=relationships&threadid=799173-DP-is-going-on-39-finding-himself-39-trip -to

....went worse than imagined

It started off all nice and calm, well on my part anyway. I asked if I could chat about a few worries I had regarding the trip, which he grudgingly agreed too, he didn't see what needed to be discussed, as I'd already agreed to the trip. Anyway I pushed on regardless. I asked him straight out what his reason was for going, was it this make or break deal, this finding himself trip, but he said that was what I wanted it to be, it wasn't anything like that for him, he said he was doing the trip because 'he fancied it' , it was something he'd always wanted to do. When I pointed out that I didn't think he could justify an extended trip, to a danger zone, at a large expense just because he fancied it, he just replied 'why not?'.

Anyway it all went down hill really from there really, to condense a very long and exhausting evening into a readable post, he basically said it wasn't to be a one off, he intends to do more of these extended trips to exciting locations. He also refused my compromise of a couple of weeks a year to himself to go off climbing or running etc somewhere (a damn fair compromise I thought). He also refused to turn next year's India trip into a family affair, I tried to suggest we go as a family treking somewhere (we are big hiker types) instead of him doing India. He said no, if we could come on bikes, or possibly canoe down the Andes (what with a 6mth old and a 4 yr old!) then maybe, otherwise there was no point. When I pointed out that I didn't know anyone who thought this was a good idea amongst my friends and both our families (men as well as women), he said he couldn't care less and that everyone of his mates at work thought it was a brilliant plan, and they wished they could do it. He then said the most negative thing ever 'All men are held back by their families'!

He basically accused me of being selfish, of not understanding because I have no desire to travel, which I said was extremely unfair, I do and would, but I have to put my children first, and I am not even a earth mother type - I just know that my kids have to come first and foremost now, and that doesn't mean I have to sacrifice myself in the process, just that I have to work around the fact that I am a mother with responsibilities. I conceded that family life can be mundane and tedious, and I too feel the need to escape at times, but that can be done without fecking off for weeks and weeks to the other side of the world at great expense.

He is blatantly unaware that his going away heaps massive pressure onto me too, that I need to stay behind and hold the fort as it were while he just swans off.

He told me that this is how he is, that he is a free spirit etc and he'll never be any different.

I pointed out that it sounded like he was trying to escape being a parent and a partner, he replied by saying hypothetically speaking what would that mean if it were true. I told him it would make me feel very insecure and question his commitment to me, and was it worth carrying on. He got angry with that, and said he wanted to be in a relationship and be a Dad.

Ho hum, things deteriorated after that, much of the same going round in circles, with him not understanding any of my fears and worries. I gave up in the end and went to bed.

We are still ok, the trip is still going ahead, with my blessing (he's going regardless, I may as well be included in the build-up, so I can get a grasp of the risks involved and the precautions taken). I have a lot of thinking to do. I have discussed the above with a mutual friend and his mum, and feel that he his possibly never going to compromise and it's down to me know to decide what the future holds. His mum did say, he once came to her quite upset after another failed relationship, he told her he felt he would never be able to have a long term committed relationship because he couldn't find anyone who wanted the same as him. His mum told him that most women will happily coast along for 3 years, but after that they want some show of commitment. He just didn't get it.

So there you go, not positive, but at least I now have a better insight into how he works, and hopefully I can make a choice that is the best for everyone.

Get really good insurance on him so if something bad does happen at least you will have money.

He is a prize twat.

You could meet someone really nice in the 6 weeks he is away, and change the locks

I don't understand why you feel you have to support this trip; to do so is betraying every single need you and your DC have. Don't feel beholden to pamper to the whims of this spoilt brat! You might indeed think it's 'okay' for him to go off (although IMO it's not and I think most people on here would agree) BUT it does sound like your 'permission' is making him 'gain an inch and take a mile'; if you appear to him that this jaunt is okay with you, then his argument is going to be 'but it was okay before - why are you being so unreasonable and hypocritical this time?' when he wants to go off on bigger, longer and more dangerous sojourns in the future. I think you should tell him it's immature and unacceptable and categorically NOT okay with you and make sure that if he does go, he is going in the full knowledge that he is being incredibly immature and selfish and doing it at the expense (literal and emotional) of the very people he claims to care most about in the world. And that doing so is an acknowledgement that he only cares about himself and is absenting himself from his family. Sorry, but if he really did care and was truly committed to being a partner and father, this nonsense should never have got past the fantasy stage.

When someone is being unreasonable but twists things so that they make YOU seem the unreasonable one, you have to be 100% black and white and put the ball in their court: get him to explain how, by any stretch of the imagination, what he wants to do shows any love, care, thought and commitment to you and the DC. Get him to explain how he would feel if you did the same. Get him to explain what message he thinks this gives to you and the DC (or will do, if he keeps it up when they're older and more affected by it).

And above all, get him to explain why he thinks the fucking world revolves around him and what he wants! He sounds like a spoilt brat who's never been said 'No' to. Well, he's turning you into his mother by expecting you to pander to his selfishness in this way, so put your foot down and say NO. Someone's got to. Sounds like he's not entirely aware that other people have needs too.

You deserve better. But I think you know that. Good luck and keep pressing him.

stellamel.
He is a great Dad, he is lovely with our DD.

I want what I obviously can't have, I want DP to compromise on a few weeks to himself a year, to interact with me and DC when he is home, and to be sure of his commitment to me, without seeing it as all as a ball and chain.

You said both these things. No-one is perfect, we all have off days, the truth is often somewhere between the extremes. Only you can say how close to the first or second the reality is.

I really get where you are at. You want to be sure, really sure that if you've come to the end of the line, then in the future when your DC's ask, you can hold your head high and say that you truly did all you could.

Here's the thing. They'll make that decision for themselves, no matter what you do or don't do, and no matter what you or he says as they grow up.

You love him, and that's the hardest part.

I was never comfortable with how my ex treated her own DD (my DD's half sister), so I said my piece and left it at that. Afterall, I loved her, and surely our situation would be different once we had our DC?

What made it easy(er) for me to stop forgiving my ex for all the rubbish things she did to me was when she started to extend / impose those things to our DD.

As someone on here said to me: As the childs primary carer your priority is providing stability, a loving home environment and always being there for her. Part of that is to recognise that a birth parent is not always the best parent.

I would add, as has been mentioned previously, that another part is to take enough care of yourself in order to be the primary carer your child(ren) need you to be.

Men like this always have a radar for steady, intelligent,strong women who consistently earn money'.

Exactly CrushWithEyeliner.
He wouldn't be with a partner who's immature like him. That would be disaster. The 'Odysseas' needs a Penelope.

Sorry, only read first and last pages of this atm so am sure this has already been said x1million, but:

he sounds like he hates you.

How can you bear to be near someone who sounds like he hates you so much? And I'm saying that in a sad tone, btw, not the accusatory tone it might look like. You seem so normal, sane, intelligent and calm. It depresses me beyond measure that you are tied to such a miserable, spiteful, hateful man.

Well done for talking to him about it though, it can't have been easy. Be proud of yourself for that.

dittany is right.

Stellamel - I just spoke to my DH about this and am amazed at his reaction - he agrees with the MNetters on here. Now for me to explain a little more, my DH is the one who always wants his boys trips away, indeed when our DC2 was 10 days old, he went off skiing for 5 days with his mates, which I was not best pleased about and created merry hell! However, for HIM (the ultimate lad) to think that your DP is totally unreasonable (actually his words were "he is obviously a prick") should be evidence enough..... well, of course it won't be because you don't know him - but you get my gist!!

Oh dear stella. Well thanks for the update.

You do know that he doesn't actually care about you don't you? Not because he doesn't want but because he can't.

When your next baby comes along it will be worse.

He is commitment phobic and nothing you or your children can do will ever change that

Blimey Lynne, that was unforgiveable too.
Why would he not want to be with his new baby??
I'm afraid I couldn't love or respect a man who did that.

Moondog - just name changed from lynneevans51, don't be confused! It certainly was unforgiveable and broke us for some time. In fact, I cannot even remember why we got back together - had a very rough few years. Have to say though, that things now are great, never better - about bloody time!! FWIW - I did change the locks and chucked him out at the time and got a solicitors letter hand delivered to him threatening to bleed him dry so he wouldn't be able to afford his lads jaunts in the future. Think it worked!!

Oh, good for you.
Unbelievable on his part.

stellamel whatever else you do do NOT get into debt to fund his trip. He'd be essentially stealing the bread out of your children's mouths. Sadly he's not bothered about keeping a roof over their heads or clothes on their backs - you are, so you have to resist any attempts by him to make that even harder.

He sounds a bit like my Dad (only worse) - likes to have a family in the background so he can play at being Daddy when it suits him, but not actually prepared to do any of the donkey work or take on any responsibility or allow it to cramp his style in any way. We sussed that out at a pretty young age. And it didn't give us a great deal of respect for him.

Fortunately our mother did everything she could to be both parents, to protect us and provide for us (and she kicked him out). I'd have had less respect for her if she'd colluded with our father and enabled him to be crap.

Good point Edam.

Not read all of both threads so forgive me if repeating.

OK practicalities before I say what I think of your partner.

1 Make sure that any loan is taken out in HIS name, that it is not gaurenteed against any property/thing that you have a financial interest in. Also that it comes with insurance to pay it off if anything happens to him and no one can come chasing you for a single penny of it.

2 Make sure that he has adequate life insurance (that covers torture, kidnap, rape whatever else may happen to him in a war torn country) that will provide something for both your children until they are at least 18.

From what I have skimmed of these threads you are supporting your partner working plus raising a child and pregnant whilst he fannies around waving his hanky in the air pathetically.

So who is actually going to pay off this loan when he comes back from his trip? Sounds to me like it will be you.

So what next? You clear this loan in a few years only for him to take another one out for another trip away to 'discover' himself.

This is not a man. This is what has been described on this website time and time again as a cocklodger.

How do you intend for your children not to grow up thinking that this is a 'man's' right. You want any daughter you have to think this is the way a relationship should be? You want any son of yours to be so selfish and treat his women this way?

My husband has just read that entire thread.

Below are his observations:

• He says that the guys in work are all for it - to be honest, you only have his word for that.

• The guy sounds like a total jerk. Quite frankly any guy who isn't prepared to go out and get a job and earn money for his family isn't worth the paper his birth certificate is printed on.

• If he insists on this trip then you MUST insist on his having life insurance to give you money in the event of his being injured or killed. Regardless of whether you are still with him, he is the father of your children and needs to stand up to his responsibilities.

• I'd make sure that you move money out of any joint accounts to ensure that he doesn't extend the trip on your buck and dime.

• To be quite frank with you if he is such a "free spirit" he'll never be there for you (and to say that "all men are held back by their families" is an insult to all the rest of us men!) - if it was me then I'd look at leaving him and finding myself someone who actually cares about my feelings.

Btw, my husband is 28, so young himself.

Are you confident that he will be faithful to you whilst he is away?

This may have already been said so apologies but in trying to sort this out, take a step back and consider what you would think/advise if you'd stumbled across this thread on MN rather than being the OP.

I don't know if it's possible - this is only a vague memory - but think you may be able to put a note on your credit file that would mean any loans are red-flagged. Since you have financial ties to him, that might stop him being able to raise money on your joint accounts/backed by your house without your knowledge.

I'd speak to a financial adviser, tbh.

Love fades pretty quickly when you are out on the street with your kids.

(Sorry, I mean it fades if the situation has been caused by the selfishness of one party, not that couples who sadly lose their homes automatically split up.)

Ledt him go, with a bit of luck he wont come back and you can find a grown up to spend your life with not a spoilt child.

Free sprite = selfish, feckless waster.

There is an air of unreality about the whole trip.

It takes a lot of planning well in advance, and he seems to be operating on the assumption that he will be able to show up at the border and be allowed into the country. War torn countries are not the same as Europe/North America/Australia/NewZealand.

What happens when his motorcycle breaks down? What about provisions such as water and food? Language barriers? Communication? Unless he has a satellite phone, he won't be contactable.

Maps? It's very difficult to get up to date maps of the areas he's proposing to travel. As a hiker, he should know that basic navigation is crucial.

Has he applied for visas? Is he doing any preparation at all?

Riven pretty much read my mind.

He'll use you as a doormat and then ditch you for a younger 'free spirit' when he gets bored.

Agree with whoever said - he is taking the bread from your children's mouths, and the clothes off their backs.

At some point in the future you will have to choose, your children's home, security and emotional wellbeing, or his desire to twat about the world.

i'm afraid that happened to a friend of mine. no kids, but they'd been together for yonks, had a house etc etc. he got itchy feet, she went travelling with him, the minute he could he was off with a nineteen year old called something like Freedom or Spirit and my pal was all alone half-way across the world. mid-life crises are depressingly samey.