DH's anger

[lilypuss]

his is my fist time posting (long time lurker). I'm really at a loss as to how to deal with my dh.
Little background - we have 3 dc under 4.5y.I'm a SAHM now, DH hates his work and seems to be unhappy/angry a lot of the time.
Our youngest dc wakes early every morning (9mo) and I deal with her usually until the others wake up (7.30am). At the first hint of noise dh starts shouting (will they ever fing shut up etc, for fs sake, I never get any sleep etc). Our youngest is still waking 4 times/night for food so I am pretty wrecked too. I find it pretty hard to have to cope every morning to him swearing/ranting on top of everything.
Our dc are great really (from what others say) but as with all children they squabble sometimes and are rude.
This morning, after DH has been ranting around I heard him say to ds 'I'll smash your face in if you do that again' ds had made a face at DH - the same horrible face he sees DH make when he is in one of his rants I might add.
I was shocked, I can in to the kitchen and DH tried to change it to 'I'll slap you if I see you do that again'...
We have never slapped in our house - mainly because I'm afraid of DH's temper.
DH keeps going on about discipline and how our dc will not respond to anything else - he does, but of course their behaviour is difficult when DH is ranting everyday.
How can I deal with DH?
I'm really struggling here with his moods.
I can't keep all 3 children quiet all the time.
I usually try to take the kids out of his way for a while every weekend to give him a break but it's not enough obviously.

Sorry for the rambling post - I just don't know how to deal with this and I don't want DH to lay a finger on our dc.

yes and no - it's silly in that he is a parent too so should shoulder the responsibility, but because of the way he's treated you, it's all you can do to keep plodding on

the fact is, you are never doing enough because when you're doing everything, he will STILL find something else to criticise. Every Time. No Matter What.

The problem with not telling anyone is that you will constantly doubt it - you'll go away tonight thinking you should just put up and shut up because, hey, let's face it - he did the washing and let you lay in once in a while... that's fine, surely.

I wonder if you could just ring WA to talk about it all? They won't pressure you to leave or make plans or anything because you are not ready for that, as far as I can see ... they'll just go through what is and isn't reasonable behaviour from him and help you see the wood through the trees (or is it for the trees? I get it wrong all the time...)

sorry, I retract my sarcastic comment of 22:43

He's not going to change, Lilypuss. He doesn't want to change. It suits him perfectly well to have you and his DC as punchbags, he doesn't think you are people at all. The police will come and remove a violent man from the house and you can get a court order to keep him out of the house, even if it's his house and your name is not on the tenancy/mortgage - because it is the children's house and they are entitled to live in it without a violent man there endangering their health and wellbeing.

By the way, your mental health issues will almost certainly disappear once you have got rid of him. They probably all stem from being in an abusive relationship with a person who is quite literally 'driving you mad'.
Interesting that your therapist thought you shouldn't marry him.

Your comment was spot on anyfucker, even if it did hurt. That's the problem. I want things to change desperately but I constantly hope that things will change by themselves.

I just looked - it's his own laundry.

I'm not in the UK but we have a WA here, I have been thinking about phoning them but wasn't really sure whether I was over-reacting or not. I'm going to have a shower in the morning and I will talk to DH again tomorrow.

why talk to him again tomorrow? can you see it is an utter waste of energy (emotional and physical)?

he will not change - you aren't even a person to him. You are his thing - his "woman", there to service him and placate him and nothing else... SGB does that speech way better than me and I wish she'd do it now but the point is the same... he doesn't SEE you as human, you are "woman" and that means you are lower than him in his eyes and that will never ever ever ever change

SGB is right.

It's probably not conscious. He probably thinks of himself as a decent man struggling to cope with an inadequate dw & ghastly, badly-behaved dc, all of whom need keeping in line - physically, if need be.

His thinking is false & dangerous, & it's prone to escalate, simply because it is childish & selfish, & that's what children do - he'll push the limits until one day you & the kids are gone.

You know his thinking is skewed & unfair. But he's not going to hear that so long as you're still there when he gets home.

If you're still thinking in terms of helping him, think in terms of breaking the malign 'everything's OK, it's dw & the dc who are the problem' spell he's under.

Get to somewhere safe, & talk to him from there.

Lillypuss. Get help. National Centre For Domestic Violence: 24 hr emergency number: 0844 8044 999, general day time number: 0800 9 702 070 for free legal advice, support, etc.

or text NCDV to 60777. www.ncdv.org.uk web link

If you want to "blame" yourself, think of your behaviour as being co-dependant or enabling his. However, the fact is, he is abusing you and you need to get yourself and you dc's away from him / him away from you and dc's before they and you experience any more of his abuse.

Ooops. Just seen that you're not uk based. Forget the phone numbers etc.

At least you have WA where you are.

SGB - I'm seeing the psychiatrist again at the end of august, I know I can see him earlier if I need to but I don't know if he would appreciate it as it's not really a mental health issue related to pregnancy/birth (he's attached to the maternity hospital).
I might tell him about this when I see him and see what he thinks.

I've also realised that whenever I've had a depressive period that things get really bad between us. I've always blamed myself for this really (as it must be difficult to live with someone with depression) but now I've started thinking that during these periods I would have become less accommodating and that this is what starts off his anger.
As it happens I've actually been pretty well for the two years or so - well enough to do lots of thinking at least.
Even without me being depressed there are other stresses - me being a SAHM now with little chance of getting a similar job to previously, given ecconomic climate here, money, his work, his family, trying to sell our house etc. the list seems endless really.

Raven - I'm getting a bit teary reading your post - I think that's exactly what he thinks. I just don't know how far away from that he is.

Am I being completely unrealistic by hoping that if I do draw a line under it and absolutely not tolerate any behaviour like this that he will realise?
even as I post this I'm wondering how I can police his behaviour and trust him.

Sorry my posts are so garbled. It is very hard to deal with.

are you forces at all lily?

had to say something here. I was in an abusive relationship for years with anger, swearing at me, punching/kicking doors, but the physical violence against me was very infrequent and 'tame' (ie pushing me about, not hitting me). He also refused to talk about any incidents, making me doubt they happened.I never realised til I was out of the relationship that I had been treading on eggshells for years, that I was afraid of him. I held on for years, hoping he would change, that things would get better, and of course they never did.

Now I am a single parent, and my house is happy, lighthearted, and so much easier than it was. I used to change my behaviour too, to avoid confrontation etc, and never realised I was doing it. Or preferred it to the fallout.

It still seems unthinkable, that I was in an abusive relationship. I am intelligent, independent and strong, but I was still being treated like that by my partner. I was shocked when I found out what other people's partners did for them - I thought the relationship I was in was normal, but it was far from it.

And my depression I had was on antidepressants on for has since disappeared too...

There is a better life for you and your children outside of this relationship.

Am I being completely unrealistic by hoping that if I do draw a line under it and absolutely not tolerate any behaviour like this that he will realise?

in one word............ yes.

I'm sorry you're feeling so bad, lillypuss. Being a parent is a wonderful gift and you only get one chance at it, you can't go back and erase the past, but you can move forward and make your children's lives the best that they can be.
Your son may always live with the memory of being told by his dad that he's going to smash his face in, are you also going to let him live with the memory that his Mum appeared to do nothing about it?
You need to stand up to this man and protect your children, if doesn't matter if he carries through his threat or not, what he did is abuse and if you continue to allow it to happen you are aiding him, by not stopping him.
How do you know that this hasn't happened before? Saying you are afriad to leave him with his own children speaks volumes.
As a Mum, you're first priority is to your children. Pack your bags come home and make yourself and your children happy. Nothing should come before your happiness or safety and that of your children's. Who knows that might be just the wake up call he needs.

Lily
It sounds like my dcs early life.
No joy in the house from him. I loved being pg and babyhood but he(ex) did just like yours is doing now and more. I didn't leave til they were 10 and 12 and I should have done it sooner, I really should have.
You cannot change him only he can change. The only thing you can change is how you react to him and put some joy into havinmg children!

Lilypuss,

Re your comments:-

"I don't want to tell my parents, we are very close but they would be so shocked and upset and worried".

FGS tell them!!!, abuse as well also thrives on secrecy. They will hopefully be supportive; they have likely had their suspicions about him for a long time.

"I don't want them to think that badly of him, I still want things to work out, if I tell them everything changes".

This is unrealistic and at heart you know it. He will not change because he simply does not want to. He's happy for things to remain as they are. You cannot force change or make him change.

It is also interesting to see that your pysch was concerned about you marrying this man. Why did you marry this man?. Really, why did you marry him?. He is not your pet project to rescue and or save. Perhaps you subconsiously thought you could save him and or rescue him from his own demons. Well no.

You have come through much adversity; maybe you thought that your own experience would somehow help him pull him through. Again, no. Many people have rubbish childhoods but they don't all end up acting like your H is doing. Its a poor excuse and you seem trapped in this "rescuing" mindset.

DO NOT entertain the idea of any more joint counselling with your abusive H. As others have correctly pointed out, no counsellor worth their salt would see such an individual.

Who comes first now - him or you and the children?. You have a choice re him, your children have no say in the matter.
At present you are enabling him which ultimately helps no-one least of all you.

Lillypuss, remember that it's OK for people to think badly of this man. Because he IS a bad person. Whatever may have happened to him in the past, he is an adult, and if he is unhappy and tormented he should seek professional help for whatever is making him unhapp.
THe fact that he is choosing to abuse you and his DC instead means he is a BAD PERSON and has forfeited the right to sympathy and indulgence from other people. He could be put in prison for what he has already done to you. There is no need to shield or protect him from the consequence of his own behaviour. There is no need to 'love' or like a person who mistreats you. Put yourself and the DC first and get rid of him.

You can also love the man he was, but not the man he is today. You will grieve for this marriage, because it sounds as if it is already over,(?) it is horrible but really please talk to someone in rl and get some perspective on his behaviour towards you and your dcs.

thank you so much for all your posts.

I know I seem to be paralysed, but this has been a gradual process even to get to this stage.

It was easy enough to shrug off DH's behaviour to me, but it is not the same when it is directed specifically against our dc.

He still thinks that he doesn't need to talk about it.
I'm not letting this go.

I'm wondering if I put how I feel down in writing to give to him would it help.

We have been together since our teens, except for a big gap in our 20s - I moved abroad to do a PhD and he went to australia.
We met again when I was 30 and inbetween jobs and we then had a long distance relationship for 2 years while I was in the US. Then I came home and we had our first child 2 years later.

The rescuing thing is probably pretty accurate unfortunately. My parents didn't approve of him when I was younger but have since accepted him completely. He is good with the children most of the time. I also never let my parents know too much about our actual relationship. I might have muttered something about having a 4th child but that's about it.

His own family is highly disfunctional (parents separated when he was young, father a rich tyrant, mother died from alcohol when he was in early 20's, difficult 'step mother' etc. etc.) whereas mine are completely normal and extremely supportive. I have always made allowances for him on this basis.
On the other hand, I have suffered from depression for ever it seems and he has often told me that I am the mad one that needs therapy.
But I have dealt with my depression, I have had therapy, I do take the tablets (usually) and I have been proactive now in getting help when things slip.

Dc were great this morning, so no need for shouting - I could tell that he was on good behaviour though.

I've written down how I feel in an e-mail to DH including a link to this thread.

I'm going out this evening with my father.

I'm hoping that DH will read it and understand how I'm feeling.

Is this a big mistake?

I haven't sent it yet.

Hi Lily,
I don't have experience of this, I am sure someone will be along soon who has a more informed view.

I wouldn't send the link to the thread. I think abusive / angry men are often very controlling and that he would fly off the handle if he knew you had been discussing this with others.

Please keep yourself and your DCs safe.

i doubt it will help unless you have posed it as specific questions /things you would like him to do... or specific timelines - please go to the GP about your issues next week... even then, i doubt it...

things i worte to my exP he just deleted or ignored if he didnt like what it said. or turned aroudn to make it my fault "but you never told me, how could i know it was upsetting you, i did it for your own good. i did it for the dcs good"

i would like you to help with dcs on this time/these days
i would like you to xxxx
i would like you not to xxxx

if just outpouring of your feelings* he will ignore and/or turn it back onto you - make it your own fault.

but see what happens....

• unless maybe you clearly spell out

"i am scared of you when you xxxxxx"
"i am afraid of you when you xxxx"
" i will not be able to continue living with you unless xxxxxxx"

maybe an "i am leaving you today because...." letter would have most impact....

Personally, I wouldn't send the link with your email.....

If he's abusive/controlling, then he wouldn't take kindly to it.

I'm more concerned about your kids than anything else.

no, don't send the link

I imagine it will enrage him that you have been discussing your domestic situation with strangers

Personally, I think you are wasting your time whether trying to talk to him or write to him

In his mind, you will just confirm even more what a useless, over-reacting pain in the arse you are, always whining and ruining his day

I think what you need to do is put in clear terms what you expect to change and if they don't what the consequences of that will be

And mean it

If he realises you will not follow through on any threats, you will undermine your position even more

Lily I second not linking this thread.
Hope you open up a bit with your dad this evening.