I am a bit fed up, DH is being a bit selfish I think and don't really know what to do, just a moan really.

[PavlovtheForgetfulCat]

I was going to put it in AIBU, but firstly I am probably been a bit unreasonable, and he is too, and I am not in the mood for a flaming, and secondly, even if I am being unreasonable I don't really care, I feel these feelings and they are real regardless of the reasons. I just need to rant and I am sure I will feel much better!

DH is out of a job. He has been out of a job since january, he has applied for the odd job here and there, but to give him credit the job market is not good here in Devon, there are lots of people going for the same jobs. But he is also not applying for everything he possibly can. He says he is too old to start again doing a teenagers job, he has pride and why should he lose his pride?

Luckily we had a little in savings to tide us over. but it feels like he seems to think he won't have to sort out work until this money disappears completely. It was not what it was for.

I am 20 weeks pregnant. I have been working 32 hours a week since I went back to work when DD was 9 months old, she is now 3. I have suffered from hyperemesis, and have only just in the last few weeks felt well enough to stat living again, returned to work, have more energy.

Since DH has been house husband he has been responsible for DD and the cleaning/tidying of the house. He is great at looking after DD, but the housework he is useless at. The house has been chaos and I have not until recently had the energy to clean it (we also have building work going on so it is messier than normal due to storage issues). DH has tried in his view to keep on top of it, and he has looked after me, and it is not a skill of his, cleaning. He cleans, but not tidies if you get that. And he cooks most days for both DD and us, although often DD gets a quick thrown together something.

But my problem is that he does not spend all day every day cleaning, socialising DD (she is not at nursery as we had to withdraw her before she was 3 due to finances), looking for work. But he goes out to see friends, our friends, they come to visit, he drinks lots of tea, and he spends a LOT of time on the computer playing his computer games, probably does around 1 hour of cleaning/tidying/washing/etc a day if I am lucky, I come home from work and have to do more, to keep on top of it. DH does enough to feel justified in getting arsey about it when I moan, he feels he looks after DD and that is enough. He does not spend much time looking for work at all, I have no idea how much time when I am not here, but I know I often point out jobs for him, and he does not always bother to apply.

He goes out a lot in the evening, and since I have been ill it has occured more and more. We have argued extensively and had some arguments that came close to us splitting (he threatened to leave as he did not like my attitude). He promised he would not go out all the time, and when he is in we would spend more time together.

Anyway, we had a great weekend, we went to Hyde Park festival on sunday, got back late sunday night/early morning, I had the day off work, I then worked hard for DDs birthday, went out shopping for bits while he 'looked after DD' at a friends house, in the garden drinking tea. The next day, he went out to finish off and DD and I slept for 3 hours as I was exhausted and he was very pissed off that I had slept all afternoon instead of preparing for DDs birthday party the next day.

Tuesday (same day) he went out in the evening for a couple of hours to help a friend move.
Wednesday he went out to visit a friend for the evening 'so you can have an early night, I know you are tired'
thursday he went out to visit a friend as he has not seen him for a while.
this afternoon (after I worked an additional day at work) he asked for some 'me' time, sure I said, and he then came up to the park with DD and I. He then said 'i am going out for a bit ok?' and I said 'where' and he said 'to the xx pub to sit in the beer garden and have a beer with friends'

And I felt so jealous. He has such a social life, is spending our savings as all my money is going on bills, he does not do enough in the house for my liking, he is not looking for work. He is not providing for his family. If he does not work soon I will have to forfeit some maternity leave.

He always makes out like he is going out to 'give me space' 'he knows I am tired' or he is on the computer, and when I challenge him he says I am paranoid and he gets defensive and we argue and he turns it around, he says I am ungrateful for what he does, he does more than I realise, He thinks I want him to stop seeing people, or having a life, because I don't have one, because I am too tired in the evening to go out myself. I probably do to be honest.

God that was very long and its not even half of what I feel. If I say anything to him we will just argue. There is no way I can stop an argument, I cannot seem to explain to him what I feel without him turning it around.

ipiratethief - tot side - A.

Pavlov - I see what you mean about the resignation - he really does need some sort of firework to get him going again. I'm not excusing his selfish behaviour at all, but I guess I can understand how it could grind you down if you had tried and tried and not found anything. And as you say, he has slipped into a pattern. But it only takes two weeks to break a habit of a lifetime, let alone six months.

If he'll acknowledge that he's not happy being out of work and with things as they are, could you pick a day or a weekend to do something a bit different from the norm and sort of draw a line under the way things have been? Fresh start as it were, with both of you agreeing to make some changes? On other threads people have talked about them and their partners writing down the things they would like the other one to be doing, as a means of healing rifts between them. If you could find a way to close the door on the recent antagonism and agree to start again, perhaps he might feel more able/willing? I know, I'm probably being hopelessly optimistic here - I know it's not that easy - but just trying to think of practical 'things' he might try . . .

and so you bloody well should.

I am trying to answer without my experiences to influence too much. Yet i used to enjoy being 'mum, protector, organiser', and thats the pattern it fell into, until shit hit the fan and he ended up totally useless.

I was just ebing 'me' tho, and will not balme myslef for 'enabling' him, cos i know now I was just enabling the wrong person, a person who naturally was never going to change or be the storng, productive one. Unless it was for his own means, or to make himself seem happier.

word thats a bit freaky cos the ex i speak of frequently here, is now in A, too.

ah well, there's always 2 sides to every story he tells!

I agree, ipiratethief - Pavlov shouldn't have to do ALL the looking after. It's a two-way thing!

Wordweaver - but we have 'drawn a line' under it and moved forward before in the last few months, except we don't move forward. We have not done the whole writing down thing, I am not sure he would buy into that, but anything is worth a try

In the meantime, I will go look for a rocket to stick up his backside.

If things really did work well for 10 years before this rocky time then surely they can work well again?

However I think you do need to make some radical changes to avoid it all spiralling downwards even further. I would suggest that your mat leave may give you a big opportunity to fix things. Maybe dh could do a PGCE whilst you are on mat leave alongside a bit of casual work - or maybe he will feel happier with 2 adults in the house and more able to find a job?

I think there may be a surplus of teachers in the SW so make sure there is employment in your area before changing career to teaching! He could get a career dev loan for this - but it would also be a better use of your savings than doing nothing...

Well, there are plenty of 'characters' here, ipirate - I haven't seen your other posts so don't know the background, but sounds like you are happy to be rid of him . . . ?

Pavlov, regarding the pride issue, do you think that he might agree to set a deadline on the length of time he's going to hold out for a job that's worthy of him ? Because as you've said, it's now eating up your savings and that can't go on indefinitely. You have a say in what happens too, and you don't want to ask relatives for money. So would he agree that if he hasn't got a suitable job by x date, he will start applying for everything and take the first thing that comes up?

Wordweaver - that deadline passed months ago.

Yes agree he needs to check re teaching, but he is not thinking so much a 'good' school, perhaps more a city school where there is more need, and where he might feel he can make some difference.

Thing is, as long as you make excuses for it, his behaviour will continue.

Re-read your posts. Almost ALL of every one of them is about him and his wants and needs.

He's thinking of teaching, he's not sure which school, he wants to make a difference, he needs to have a life, he said he'd do XYZ, he wouldn't be too keen on writing things down, etc.

No wonder you feel so frustrated and powerless! You've handed him all the control. He's got everything on his terms.

No wonder he's never in the mood to discuss a change and labels you selfish, nagging and a harpy if you bring it up.

Just had a 'chat' with DH about teaching, I looked up entrance criteria and told him that he might be able to go down the route of untrained teacher, and get trained on the job so he would get a wage, said it appeared to be about £15k a year or so but only an estimate would need to look into it more. He frowned and said 'hmm, thats not good is it'. I said, it would not be forever and you would get paid to become trained in a profession, how often does that happen?' and he said, how long will that take? 'i don't know, a year? not sure' 'a year would be fine, but its 3 years or so I would be less interested, i don't want to commit to something that I might get fed up with half way through' and I said 'in that case you don't want to be a teacher' and then said 'it seems like you have already decided it might not be what you want before trying, before even looking into it, are you making an excuse not do it already?, There is no quick fix to this situation, you got to be in it for the long haul if you want to make permanent changes, or else you will continue getting jobs you are unhappy with' he got angry, said 'don't lecture me, I am a big boy' and I said 'well start acting like it' his response 'what gives you the right to talk to me like that, think you are great don't you? It is nasty and rude, to talk to me like that just because I don't think the way you do, or do things the way you do'

Before this, he was running me a bath, which I said over and over again I did not want (i have been unwell this morning, and he has been quite sweet about it) and insisted a bath would help me. And he then said after a little tiff 'your bath is ready' 'i don't want a bath, but thanks' 'fine. DD? lets go have a bath, and he has huffed off to have a bath with DD and shut the bathroom door. So now I am also ungrateful for not wanting the bath he run for me, even though I said I did not want one, before he ran it.

I know my approach is not the best.

He sounds like a complete arse, sorry. I thought expatinscotland was being a bit harsh but I think you need to sort this out.

No, your approach is not hte best because the best way to handle a selfish person like this is to leave them to their own devices.

Why did you bother looking up the entrance criteria for him? He IS a big boy and if he really wanted to be a teacher he's capable of looking it up by himself. Given his past I'd have just assumed he was talking the talk again about it.

As for the bath, I'd have told him, 'I don't want a bath. If you draw one, I won't get in it,' and left it at that.

You're ill and he's being 'sweet' about it?! FFS, Pavlov, you're carrying his child!

I feel really sorry for you, Pavlov. It seems you two are in a really negative pattern here.

But the bottom line is he doesn't want to find work.

So you need to sort of work from there on what you want and need out of life.

Sure, we'd all love to cut back on hours and spend more time at home and such, but sometimes it doesn't work out like that.

God, he is really jackyll and Hyde about it all. He just came out of the bathroom for towels, and he is fine with me, talked about swine flu, and now he and DD are happily singing the tune to wonderpets .

I was not frosty even though I want to just tell him to fuck off when he like that, as I don't want to antagonise him. If I do that I will never be able to talk to him as his defences will stay up.

He needs to decide what he wants to be when he grows up, but in the meantime, he needs to get a job, even if he feels it's beneath him. I worked throughout college and post grad. Really hard work, but I was determined.

He is being rather self indulgent. Yes, being happy in work in important, but sometimes you have to get a job while you are (re) establishing a career.

And nothing like a bit of hard graft....

Expat - problem is I guess, I can't help looking for jobs for him. I have always looked for jobs, forever, I quite enjoy it. When I was uni, I looked for a job, when I had a job I looked for a better job. When I finished uni I searched for jobs and became quite good at it. Then, when I started working where I am now working, in a junior position I spent time looking at how to improve where I was, what training, what routes, where to go, who to talk to and followed it through, applied for jobs internally (got all that I applied for internally, bar one, and I was gutted!). The only reason I have not continued upwards is due to unfortunately needing to go downwards and across into training first and cannot afford the drop in wages right now. But that will happen in time.

When I was happy in my job situation, I sort of missed looking for work, I would look for work for my friends, find opportunities, and did the same for DH. I guess he has become reliant on me, and does not do it as he knows I will.

Seriously, Pavlov, you need to quit bringing this up re: the work thing.

It is his responsibility to look for work, not yours.

If he doesn't do it, he doesn't, and let's face it, he won't.

It'd probably be more constructive for you to focus on you and what you want and need long-term.

You can want, want, want a person to be a certain way from now till the world ends, but unless they want to become or be that way, it ain't gonna happen.

The only thing you can change is you.

'I can't help looking for jobs for him. I have always looked for jobs, forever, I quite enjoy it.'

It doesn't sound like he's enjoying your doing it for him, tbh. You don't enjoy how he goes out, he doesn't enjoy how you keep putting jobs in his face (because it's likely he doesn't want to work), so one thing you can change and that's in your control is to stop looking for jobs for him.

ilovemydog - I actually like a bit of hard graft. I like the feeling of working, that is why I don't want to think of relying on others to bail us out. I worked an additional day this week due to being needed in court, and instead of feeling resentful of it, I felt quite pleased as I got the result I wanted from the day, got to wear a nice dress, felt like 'me' for a few hours (and I can take the day back again when I need/want to next week or week after).

When I just finished Uni, I had debts and could only get an agency job, then I got an evening job too, and I worked 8am-10am monday to friday to stop getting further into debt. And although the jobs were shit, and I was so tired it was unbeleivable, i never considered not doing it, and I look back with pride that I did it. But DH just does not seem to have the same work ethic. At All.

My mother does this. Looks for jobs or suggests courses of action for me and DH.

I can't tell you how much it pisses me off.

I know she's trying to be helpful, but it implies that what I'm doing right now isn't good enough and that I'm a lazy slacker.

I've told her time and again to knock it off because it hurts my feelings.

'But DH just does not seem to have the same work ethic. At All'

He doesn't. Sounds like he never had and he probably won't ever have the same as yours.

You need to accept this if you want to move foward.

You think I should back off a bit? Maybe if I do that he might do it himself, and then if he does not then what - walk? I just feel like I need to do something to try to save us.

I know I cannot make him be what I want him to be, but its not like I am trying to change something that has been inherently wrong from the beginning, his work ethic has always been different to mine, and that has been fine as it meant I concentrated on my career and we did things to promote that somewhat, like moving to another area for my job before children. He has never been this selfish before.

What I want? To stop being sick completely in this pregnancy, for this baby to become the most important thing in our life apart from DD, just as she was/is. I want to be able to take my full maternity leave, and to have a tidy house from time to time when I come home from work so I can sit down and rest my old granny feet.

Oh no expat - i have turned into your mother!

I have not in the past done it without being asked, I would never force it upon people, but friends would ask me if I knew of any opportunities and I would look for them. Same with DH, but maybe now he thinks I am smothering him with it, and I should stop hassling him, see what he does on his own.

Shame, as I just got a great job opportunity for him to apply for at work, it is perfect for him

'Maybe if I do that he might do it himself, and then if he does not then what - walk? I just feel like I need to do something to try to save us.'

He may, he may not. BUT your approach certainly isn't helping, tbh. It's just causing more rows.

What you do if he doesn't do start looking and applying himself is for you to decide.

You've already done what you can and are doing that now still.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

Besides, you've been doing all this looking for him since January and it hasn't worked, has it?

He still doesn't apply for the jobs.

So why not do something else with your time?

Sounds as if you want to be able to rely on him as an equal partner. Sometimes a relationship isn't always 50/50; sometimes it goes 90/10, 30/70 etc, but you don't always want to be the one who schleps to work and is the sensible one.

Sorry, but he's being insensitive especially as you are probably feeling vulnerable being pregnant, doing a full time job and looking after your DD (and him!)

I couldn't respect a partner who is capable of working, but doesn't work.

Well, I agree with you there, ilove, and I consider looking after children and housework and cooking as work.

I stay home just now with our three - hopefully will also be back to working 16 hours/week, too, got my interview on Monday and yes, it's housekeeping hotel rooms in the tourist season despite my having been a degreed professional in the past - and I wouldn't feel right not doing housework and the like.

Sure, there are some days when not much gets done, like when we all had swine flu or if DS has a bad day teething and just wants picked up and cuddled all day (he's 8months and weighs 30lbs. so I need two hands to cuddle him!), but not looking after my home is being disrepectful to it and to the hard work my husband does for our living.