I think this is the end of the road. DH is at it again, but now I need hard evidence

[nanog]

I have a very practical question, but I think you should read the background to fully appreciate the extent of my pain. I've had to think long and hard about posting here, because I'm having to face up to the facts that my 11-year marraige may be over.

Some of you may recall my previous post in Aug, when I shared my devasting experience of finding DH naked in the garage, videos on his phone pleasuring himself and calls to a massage parlour. Here is the thread.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=relationships&threadid=580184-am-i-being-paranoid#11842572

It went on, until I was ready to confront him with my findings. DH totally clammed up and denied doing anything wrong. He couldn't answer any of my questions and basically wanted me to forget about the whole thing. This led to mass apologies and DH reasssured me he was just messing around with his friends at work, who we're all phoning massage parlours for a laugh (on my bloody expense no doubt!)

Anyway, since then we've been trying to rebuild our relationship, not to say our sex life. We have sex at least two, sometimes three times a week. However, I recently recognised that same pattern again - DH being extra nice; DH going out everyday (he's been made redundant) for frivolous things.

So, I checked his itemised billing. (I can get access to our mobile account online) and my suspisions were confirmed, when I found a number to a massage parloour. However, there is a key difference - You see before, he'd be calling a massage parlour and the itemised billing would show DH had been speaking to them for about 4-15 minutes. This time, he calls a landline number (i searched it in Google and it leads to a massage parlour website, advertising it's services) and then he disappers for 45-min to an hour. I think DH is going to the massage parlour for sex, blow jobs and whatever else they might offer.

What pisses me off, is not only has he betrayed and lied to me, but it's like he can come back home and then expect sex from me again!

Since I discovered these calls, my behaviour has changed. I can't be my normal self around him, espeially when I think he's sleeping with escort girls (or whatever they're called). He knows my behaviour has changed too, because I tried to log onto the mobile phone account this morning and he's changed the password. I asked him what the password was and he said he couldn't remember. So now, he's denying me access.

I'm no longer speculating about what he's done. I'm confident he has been paying for sexual activities?! but I need to track his wherabouts, so then he doesn't have a leg to stand on when I confront him again, because no doubt I will only recieve the same response as last time - complete denial!

I now know things will never be the same between us. To add to my trauma, I lost someone very close to me in tragic circumstances three months ago and I'm having bereavement counselling. DH knows this. He sees me crying to sleep most nights, yet I discovered the calls to this new massage parlour started during the week of the funeral. How could he be so insensitive and selfish. I just can't bring myself to share a bed with him anymore. He has hurt me so much.

I'm trying to keep it together for now, for the sake of our DC. I feel physically repulsed when he comes near me. Not sure, how long I can keep this going? I know when the time comes and I reveal my evidence, he is going to be so desperate to keep me on-side. What I need is hard evidence. Because without this, we'll get nowhere near the answers. I need to track DH's wherabouts to prove he is cheating on me and I'm willing to pay whatever it takes to catch him out.

Can anyone offer any advice please?

If the dc continue to live with you then you will get more than a 50/50 split btw

You could get a nannie/au pair to live in to help with the childcare.

what do you want?! Can you bare his presence around you a moment longer?

would it be worth enduring that just to have a private detective's report ?

I am guessing you didn't print the evidence from the phone bill while you had the chance?

If you have access to the mobile account then call the company and ask them what the password is. Also as you know which massage place he is contacting perhaps you should stake it out when you know that's where he's gone.

If you are willihg to pay then you can get yourself a private investigator pretty easily who will photograph him.

MAybe in the meantime start getting all legal documents you may need together, take whatever money you can out of whatever joint accounts you have, cancell any joint credit cards so he can't use them and start making a plan for when you ask him to leave.

If you had evidence what would you do with it?

is it at all possible to follow him at a distance and take a photograph? i know it sounds horribly devious...

he could help you with the cildcare, particularly as he's not working. Might make him realise that he has responsibilities too.

yes what are you waiting for?

Why do you want to track him? Are you still not convinced? Are you hoping you are wrong and you will both live happily ever after once you've cleared this up?

Really your only concern now should be with organising the logistics of seperating form this man and getting the ball rolling for a divorce. Go to CAB, see a solicitor.

Dont take your own photographs, you will look like a loon if he sees you. You can't use them in court either, afaik.

A solicitor will tell you whether photographs are necessary at all (unlikely)- all that is required for you to divorce on the grounds of his unreasonable behaviour is for you to know in your own mind what he is up to. Which you do.

I am so so sorry you are going through this- I remember your original thread.

I know I?m right. I know he's done wrong, but when it comes to presenting him with these facts, he?ll twist it, like he did before.

I?ve decided not to hire a private detective or a tracking device. I don?t need photographic evidence. You?ve all made me understand, that I know he?s done wrong. I could just call his bluff and say I?ve had him followed.

I also feel really embarrassed by the whole thing, because soon enough it will come out and I worry that DH might do something really stupid, to conceal the shame or so that I don?t leave him / separate him from the DC. That thought has crossed my mind, but this is about how he has betrayed me and the consequences is something he is going to have to deal with in his own way. I won?t have anything to do with his pain. I have to separate myself from him as much as I can. This has to be about putting myself and DC first.

I could stake the parlour out tomorrow, but it?s like really really said ? I must hang onto my self respect.

As for the mobile phone evidence - I hadn't printed them off, but i kept a little track record of the times he was going out and matched these against the time the calls were made to the massage parlour. i'll demand he gets me access to the account today. He's the main account holder, so Orange will only speak to him.

I'm going to read the lone parents section and book an appt with CAB. Thank you all for a speedy response and for helping me make some important decisions.

Maybe I'm overreacting, but if you do manage to get photographic evidence of what he's up to and present it to him, I'm a bit concerned about how he might react. He's managed to deny/explain away his actions up until now; he won't be able to do so with photographic evidence. Might he blow?

I really do empathise with you, in terms of all his family living locally, and how crap it would feel - after how he's treated you -for them to consider you at fault in this situation. I wasn't faultless in my own failed 11-year relationship, but I didn't do anything like what my ex did to make it so untenable. Still, his adoring mum and grandparents do look at me as though I must have simply been all wrong for their golden boy, even though they know everything that he did. I did rant and rave about my ex for a while, about what he did, because I didn't think he deserved others' respect - I was so devastated that I think I did go a bit temporarily mad - but it wasn't worth it. If other people want to believe your ex is wonderful and faultless, they will, regardless of the evidence to the contrary - just like him, really. And this will determine how much of his family you'll still want to see. The best thing you can do is know he has treated you unacceptably, calmly end the relationship with dignitiy, and hold your head up high. If you continue in this fashion and he's the jittery, defensive one, if his family have half a brain cell, they'll know he did wrong.

Please don't even contemplate reconciliation, BTW. You'd be living a half-life. And how could you possibly trust him again? I agree that the lessons your children will ultimately learn - that you value yourself enough to be treated respectfully, even if divorce is the consequence - will be invaluable. Your staying together would ultimately harm them more than not - imagine what they'd learn from seeing their mum repulsed by their dad on a daily basis? Good luck.

I would go to a solicitor and ask what you need for an easy time with a divorce, custory, money etc. Then get all the evidence you can. Then present him with a done deal. No denials should be necessary then.

if it was me.. and I'm only talking abou tme.. and you have to remember I am a bit strange . anyway if it were me.. and I knew but I wanted hard evidence for myself.. to know where to put my head etc. .. I would wait for him in the reception of the massage parlour with a big smile.. but that's me.. ( sick sence of justice and all that).

however... my advise to you.. is.. work out what you want and how your going to get that. if it's a divorce.. it might jolly well be easier to go for unreasonable behaviour.. have a chat with legal.. and see where you stand on everything and have a think about what is right for you.

re your concerns about managing as a single parent with mortgage etc, do see a solicitor about this. AFAIK, if you divorce him on the grounds of unreasonable behaviour, he should be contributing to your dc's upkeep, which will mean at the very least maintenance payments for them, if not for you as well (depends on your earnings, personal savings etc). If you proceed to divorce he'll have to declare his financial status, so if you have access to any joint or personal statements take copies now and from the previous year or two, as it may help to demonstrate that he has been squandering money on massage parlours - ie he can't plead poverty in terms of maintenance for the dcs if he's also spending cash on prostitutes.

I think you may be wanting hard evidence so that you have something more than "your word against his" when it comes to the family circs. I can see that it is hugely daunting to go through a split when your H's family live all around and may side with him if he's able to convince them that you're talking nonsense / it was just a bit of fun etc etc. If they know what he's been up to then - assuming they're fairly normal decent folk - they can't be anything but shocked at his behaviour surely. Again speak to your solicitor to get an opinion on how to prove this sort of behaviour before you make any decisions on whether or not to find "proof", by whatever means.

Am so sorry for you and your dc, what a horrible situation, please see that you deserve better than this man, and so do your children.

Nanog, I have no advice to offer I'm afraid but you seem to have plenty from others on here.

I just wanted to send my sympathies, I remember your old thread, and I feel for you that you have worked so hard to repair the marriage only for it to be thrown in your face.

I hope you get sorted.

I remember your old thread, and tbh, am not surprised it has turned out this way.....

You don't need evidence to know your relationship is over.

Divorce or seperate on the grounds of unreasonable behaviour. You don't need any physical proof, just the fact he refuses to acknowledge the problem would be enough for me.

Have you booked your appt at the clap clinic? I think you should.

Sorry to be blunt, but he had his chance and blew it, big-style.

why don't you just go to the massage parlour when you think he is next there. Sit in the car outside. When he walks out, open your window, give him a look, close the window and drive off.

You will not need to confront him, or discuss it or liten to the feeble crap that he will spew. He will know you know. Tell him to pack his bags and go to his family if they are all local. If he refuses tell him you will explain to his family why you no longer want him at home.

Remain calm. (if at all possible)

Hello, I remember your thread nanog. So sorry that you were proven right all along. Thinking of you

11 years is a long time but its almost been a year since he last fobbed you off. I would imagine that he can be very convincing, maybe he has even deluded himself.

Personally I would want to see my DH enter the massage parlour but I think if you can preserve your self respect and stay away, then long term you are better for it.

All the best x

or could you call the massage parlour and ask for an urgent message to be passed on when he next visits. I would say "just tell mr X that his wife has gone in to labour" and sends her love.

Its not sensible but I know I would do it. I would want to hurt him for lying to me for so long and for cheating on me with (various?) women or men?

Tell him you have an infection!!

Actually that's not even funny. Hope it's all been 'safe'

Thank you for your concern. I got myself checked out at a GU clinic the last time and thankfully I was fine. Despite us using condoms every time we have sex, I will of course make another appointment.

Poopscoop, I have contemplated doing exactly what you've suggested, just to see that mortified look on his face, BUT with my current state of mind (highs and lows since the death), seeing him coming out of the massage parlour, may just tip me over the edge.

I plan to talk to DH this Friday evening and will present him with all the evidence. As you say, it's enough. I've arranged for the DC to sleep over at my sis-in-laws. I have meetings all day on Wednesday and I want to be around at home when the fall out happens, which is why I've decided to leave it until Friday to raise this issue and to tell him it's over.

What response can I expect from DH? firstly, he is not going to give up our marital home. We made a huge commitment (financially) and for our long term future 20 months ago and bought the most amazing period home. I can't believe he would jeopordise everything we've worked so hard for, for a quick thrill - a thrill he's resorted to paying for.

I reckon he's going to beg for forgiveness, because this time there really is no excuse. He'll want to continue living in the same house, but he'll suggest leading seperate lives and beds. The reason why i think he'll suggest this, is because he won't be able to face his parents and wider family. He'll want to remain close to the DC. Do you know of any couples that have tried this method of 'seperation'? It sounds kinda delusional to me.

I'm feeling quite scared, and insecure about the future, but oddly a sense of feeling quite liberated.

Nanog - i hope you find the strengh to do what you know you need to do.
He may well want to stay in the home he has invested finacially but what about the emotional energy you have invested in this marriage??

I have no doubt he will still blame you even with all the evidence - (you tricked him ...... its not what it seems....... it was only the once.......) He will not want you to look reasonalble in this at all.

The only way any kind of amicable relationship is ever going to happen is if he actually admits he has a problem that is unacceptable to you. And it sounds as if he is no where near that yet - he may if he has to live on his own and think about it.

Also i do think you should seek solicitor advice especially about the money - as he will try and get you out of the house.

Good luck and stay strong.

I've known of two couples who lived in the same house but not together but I don't know them very well or what their reasons for doing so was but after spending several years "apart", I think they both actually got back together as it were.

You feel angry and betrayed and quite rightly so, so I imagine with the anger you are feeling towards him, it would be "easier" for you to be separated from him but your dh presumeably will say he still loves you and may not be able to distance himself in the same way.

What I'm trying to say (badly), is you need to be sure that you and he could indeed live separately but in the same house without the possibility of h thinking there's more in it for him than there is.

I'm really not coming across very well but I think it would be easier to live apart in the same house if both of you had the same feelings that the marriage had ended instead of just one of you.

Hope that made some sort of sense!

Hi Nanog,I haven't had much chance to get on here lately but saw your thread and though 'shit'... Poor Nanog.

I'd hoped it was was all sorted out and you were back on even ground.

Really when you think about it, how much time have you given this silly man. How much trust, how much forgiveness. You have lowered the belt of normaility and put up with too much. You know it will never be the same all the while he is in complete denial. You owe it to yourself to live a normal life with normal levels of respect and trust and he is incapable of giving you this.

It IS hard to separate, and go through the throes of divorce but people do do it and come out the other end wishing they had done it sooner instead of prolonging the agony. I know I did. You know in yourself that your guts are saying 'this is beyond beyond' so start re erecting your life the way you want it, and get up on the morning without stress and fear and do something to change it. Any amount of proof and dabbling in massage parlours and photographs and detectives is not going to bring you peace of mind. That is all you want - so go and get it - it's there, but not with him.

You do have the right to be happy you know.

pay a private eye to tail him.
i think you are in some sort of denial where you now what is going on but don't want to admit that if it is the case then the marriage is over.
you have let him get away with it before and he will continue to do it as long as you are in the marriage i feel.
i think it may be time to accept that he will never change.