I think this is the end of the road. DH is at it again, but now I need hard evidence

[nanog]

I have a very practical question, but I think you should read the background to fully appreciate the extent of my pain. I've had to think long and hard about posting here, because I'm having to face up to the facts that my 11-year marraige may be over.

Some of you may recall my previous post in Aug, when I shared my devasting experience of finding DH naked in the garage, videos on his phone pleasuring himself and calls to a massage parlour. Here is the thread.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=relationships&threadid=580184-am-i-being-paranoid#11842572

It went on, until I was ready to confront him with my findings. DH totally clammed up and denied doing anything wrong. He couldn't answer any of my questions and basically wanted me to forget about the whole thing. This led to mass apologies and DH reasssured me he was just messing around with his friends at work, who we're all phoning massage parlours for a laugh (on my bloody expense no doubt!)

Anyway, since then we've been trying to rebuild our relationship, not to say our sex life. We have sex at least two, sometimes three times a week. However, I recently recognised that same pattern again - DH being extra nice; DH going out everyday (he's been made redundant) for frivolous things.

So, I checked his itemised billing. (I can get access to our mobile account online) and my suspisions were confirmed, when I found a number to a massage parloour. However, there is a key difference - You see before, he'd be calling a massage parlour and the itemised billing would show DH had been speaking to them for about 4-15 minutes. This time, he calls a landline number (i searched it in Google and it leads to a massage parlour website, advertising it's services) and then he disappers for 45-min to an hour. I think DH is going to the massage parlour for sex, blow jobs and whatever else they might offer.

What pisses me off, is not only has he betrayed and lied to me, but it's like he can come back home and then expect sex from me again!

Since I discovered these calls, my behaviour has changed. I can't be my normal self around him, espeially when I think he's sleeping with escort girls (or whatever they're called). He knows my behaviour has changed too, because I tried to log onto the mobile phone account this morning and he's changed the password. I asked him what the password was and he said he couldn't remember. So now, he's denying me access.

I'm no longer speculating about what he's done. I'm confident he has been paying for sexual activities?! but I need to track his wherabouts, so then he doesn't have a leg to stand on when I confront him again, because no doubt I will only recieve the same response as last time - complete denial!

I now know things will never be the same between us. To add to my trauma, I lost someone very close to me in tragic circumstances three months ago and I'm having bereavement counselling. DH knows this. He sees me crying to sleep most nights, yet I discovered the calls to this new massage parlour started during the week of the funeral. How could he be so insensitive and selfish. I just can't bring myself to share a bed with him anymore. He has hurt me so much.

I'm trying to keep it together for now, for the sake of our DC. I feel physically repulsed when he comes near me. Not sure, how long I can keep this going? I know when the time comes and I reveal my evidence, he is going to be so desperate to keep me on-side. What I need is hard evidence. Because without this, we'll get nowhere near the answers. I need to track DH's wherabouts to prove he is cheating on me and I'm willing to pay whatever it takes to catch him out.

Can anyone offer any advice please?

[nanog]

Thanks Kally and as for bethoo - you're so right. Why am i so afraid of admitting this marriage is over to DH? I think it's because I feel he's let me down again, he's betrayed me in the worst possible way, yet I don't want to believe it. I can't quite comprehend his reasons for paying for something so sordid.

Why would he jeorpidise our marriage, everything we have worked so hard for? We have estbalished such good friends and his family adore us. This will all change.

I have to recogise that our marriage is well and truly over. I know, from this weekend, nothing will ever be the same again. My life will no longer be normal, but I expect to be treated with respect and I can't trust DH anymore. Trust underpins our relationship and he's taken that away from me.

I should not expect things to go smoothly. I know I have to remain strong, esp. since I think when he sees i'm being deadly serious, he'll want to make my life very difficult.

There is going to be huge void in my life. Is that feeling normal? Maybe it's because we've been together for 11 years. How do i start again? Do i move away? Stay here?

Sorry for all the questions, but my head feels like it's going to explode. I can't seem to focus on anything else.

[abedelia]

With all his family about, if there is any way you can move then I would say that's a good idea. I can't wait to get out of the house we are currently renting as it reminds me of bad things. Also, you won't bump into him unexpectedly... Of course there will be huge void and it will be hard at first, but remember - he turned out not to be the man you thought he was, so the future you imagined could never exist (his fault).

It can only get better... good luck and I think you've done the right thing. PS Go and see a solicitor before you make any moves, and make sure you close down any joint bank accounts so he can't run up debt etc in your name. If he won't give up the home then he will have to give you your share of the money, and if that means selling then so be it. His problem.

[warthog]

good luck for tomorrow nanog.

[beanieb]

nanog, I jut wanted to offer my sympathies. I left a relationship after 12 years (thankfully no kids) and it was hard. Even though I was so happy to have left I felt a lot of guilt for quite a long time and it was hard starting my new life but, now that it has all passed, I am so happy that I finally made the move.

I found that moving on with all the practical and legal issues was something I avoided at first but in fact knuckling down and getting all those things sorted, though hard, was what kept me sane and it was so much better to bite the bullet and get on with it - kind of a distraction in a way.

Good luck. My mum told me that guilt is a wasted emotion but it's quite easy to get trapped by it. As others have said sorting out the legal stuff is really important.

[nanog]

DH response: Yes, i have been calling massage parlours and chatting online, BUT has not slept with any prostitutes. He deeply regrets the calls and knows he has screwed up. He wants me to forgive and re-build our relationship.

My response: No bloody way! I know he's lying, but without that hard evidence, all i can say is that i don't believe him, i don't trust him and I don't have the strength to re-build a relationship when this is the second time it's happnened.

He wants me to give him another chance. I do feel guilty. Do you know, he initially said, 'so what?'. AAGHH! I was so angry with his blase attitude, but after he'd had time to think and seen exactly how serious i was, he now wants me to make a decision about our future.

DH said he'd do anything i say, as long as we're together. TBH, i really don't think I can move on and live a happy life with him after what's he's done. And frankly, i don't believe him when he says he's not slept with them. He even offered to show me the bank accounts, but he has plenty of cash lying around the house, so the bank accounts don't prove anything.

Would appreciate your thoughts.

[Dior]

'DH said he'd do anything i say, as long as we're together' - perhaps he should have thought of that before he did anything. And, if you are sure that him disappearing shortly after making the calls is right, it sounds as if he has been doing something there doesn't it.

I think you need to go with your gut.

[nkf]

If you want to divorce, you need some legal advice asap. You don't need beyond reasonable doubt type evidence of infidelity. Massage parlous and online chatting might well count s unreasonable behaviour given your history. What do you want to do?

[nanog]

Right now, I want DH to give me some space. To leave me alone. To stop attempting to cuddle me or to grovel. I need time to think and perhaps, come to terms with the fact our 11 year marriage is over. God, this is sooo awful. He's hurting now. But so am i. All due to his stupidity.

[KiwiKat]

It seems that the trust has gone, so you would question everything he says from now on, whether he's telling the truth or not. Would be completely exhausting and frustrating for you both.

[Ronaldinhio]

He isn't hurting
He is a calculating liar who is jeopardising his marriage and the security of his children over his own selfishness
He doesn't believe you are worth an honest answer

He won't stop
He has no respect for you, your marriage or your family life.

[Doha]

Oh dear nanog--l really feel for you.

This is now twice that he has badly betrayed you. If your gut feeling is that he has visited these massage parlours- you have to go wth that.

He obviously des not think its a big deal with his "so what" attitude but it is so obviously for you, and would be for me too, he is hurting now probably because he has been found out.

Could you forgive him now twice? Could you trust him again ?
Only you can decide what to do--the ending of any relationship is hard but faced with that or years of wondering where he, what is he doing or who is he doing it with it should be an easy choice.

He is trying to lay the blame and responsibility of ending this mariage on you, making you feel guilty. You have done nothing to be feeling guilty --this is all his own doing and he has no one but himself to balme.

Is there anywhere you can go to get time and space to process your thoughts.

You must do what is best for you .

Thinking about you.

[nanog]

He's hurting cz he's now afraid of facing the consequences of splitting up - the family's reaction, the DC, finances, his repuation etc.

I am finding him just a little suffocating. He keeps asking me 'what we're going to do now'. There's a lot to think about and I've asked him to give me some time, but by no means expect any quick answers. I think i'm going to ask him to move out.

[Ronaldinhio]

Or...he's shitting himself because he thinks he might have just gone too far for too long and you won't pretend that there is nothing going on anymore

you deserve better
so do your dc

I'm so sorry that this is still going on in this way. I was amazed that you allowed him to behave in the way that he did in the first place...with regard not answering your questions, pretending you were a bit mad or just ignoring you.

Ultimately you decide how you allow yourself to be treated and if you aren't ready to go yet, fair play to you but try not to kid yourself about your husband or his motives.

BTW have you ever heard of anyone phoning a massage parlour for anything other than an appointment? They are not a sex line afaik...

You don't need to catch him with his penis inside someone to know that he is doing something wrong.
I can understand that you aren't ready to face up to it or aren't ready to go and need an excuse but you know now what you knew then and I honestly think you deserve a whole heap better

I hope you are ok

[MrsMattie]

Sounds like he has some serious issues he needs to resolve - nothing you can do about that. Whatever - the trust is completely broken between you. I think you need to talk to a solicitor.

[nanog]

Ronaldinhio, thank you for your advice. The calls only last about 25-45 seconds - enough time to make an appt and bugger off to the place. I know this and I believe it, but DH keeps denying the sexual acts, because he knows I don't have the hard evidence (i.e. photos of him at the parlour) i need to throw in his face, so he does think he's in with a chance of starting again.

I don't need the evidence anymore. I've seen the pattern of behavious, the calls, followed by DH leaving the house.

I know him too well. I know when he's lying. He's now gone off in a strop, because I won't talk to him.

I need to make sure my next actions are clear in my head and I can articulate them, without breaking down and giving him the opportunity to prey on my vulnerable state.

Your right. I deserve better than this, but it's going to be a long and very painful journey for all of us.

I must thank all of you for the support and strength you've given me to keep fighting on. Will keep posting.

[Ronaldinhio]

It's so, so difficult.

He is unlikely to admit having sex with a prostitute on the day of your son's bd though isn't he.

If you had photographs of him going in he's say he had a bad neck ffs.

You know what you know it's a pity that he doesn't have enouh respect for you or your relationship to honour you with a titter of wit and tell the truth for once.

See a solicitor and get your legal standpoint clear. Do it on your terms thinking of yourself and your dc only. This doesn't concern how he, his family or his friends feel about the situation.This is your life.
Once you have all the legal facts especially concerning your marital property you can make some decisions.

Sorry to be so straightforward but I lived through this with my mum and it was a grim erosion of her entire being by a lying, callous, tosser

[Dior]

I would have thought that the proof of his calls would be enough for 'unreasonable behaviour'. I think you need about 5 instances and need to be able to date them.

[Jenice]

Forget about how he is hurting. Was he thinking of you when he was calling them. What he has done is unforgivable and you deserve so much better.

[Dior]

I think his wallet is probably hurting at all the money he has spent. His brain is hurting at thinking what he is going to lose. He is not hurting. Don't feel sorry for him.

[blahdiblahblah]

I really feel for you.
I think you are handling it well.
If the thought of throwing him out for good feels too much for you, maybe just ask him to move out "temporarily"and then once he has gone, tell him you don't want him back?
He is trying hard to make you doubt your gut instinct.... but - seriously - does he honestly expect you to believe that he went for a little massage every time? We ALL know what that means, don't let him take you for a fool.
Stay strong
x

[nanog]

Dior, Jenice and Blah, thanks for your posts. My serious message is finally beginning to sink into his brain! He's terrified of moving out and having to reveal everything to his family. He keeps pleading for me to forgive him. He thinks we can work this out. We did before, and we can again. But I don't have any respect for and I don't trust him.

He's sticking to his story of never having visited the parlour, but I just don't believe him. I then asked for the grubby details re. the calls. What could he possibly be speaking about when the call only lasts between 25-40 seconds. This is DH's response:
'I don't know...i say hello..who is this...and that's it'

And it's exactly that kind of response that infuriates me. He thinks I'm so stupid. Even though I've never called a massage parlour myself, i'm sure the calls would be of a very different nature.

DH then came out with the killer line - 'Don't throw away 11 years of our marriage. let's try again for the sake of the DC'

So, here begins the guilt trip, as if the decision i'm now making to end this marriage is somehow my fault in destroying our marraige. DH did that all by himself, without any single thought to my or the DC feelings.

He wants to continue 'talking'. I've asked him to leave me and DC alone. I like your idea blah, of asking him to move out on a 'temp' basis. There is so much to sort out and I need to be able to do this, without him under my feet.

[monkeyfacegrace]

This is so sad sweet, but you are being so strong. My husbsnd left me, as I never had the courage to do it myself, even though he was the one cheating. Its the hardest thing to do, but I think once you realise its change you are scared of, and not being without him, you will be fine.
If it helps, I called the job centre, and was told that the DSS (or similar) would pay the interest on my mortgage (Change to interest only then obv you haven't got to worry) as my exH was refusing to pay it. That way I was able to stay in the house. Then in time, my dad bought him out, then when I met my new partner, he bought my dad out and tada, now Im still here but own it with my boyf!!
Good luck x

[nanog]

Wow! That's incredibly inspiring. Thank you monkeyface. We too, have an interest only mortgage and because of the current bank of england rate, we're not actually paying anything towards the mortgage. We've been saving a quite a lot each month and the plan is to put a lump sum down at the end of each month.

When the bank of england rate goes up (and so does our mortgage) I doubt the DSS will pay the interest, as I work 37 hrs a week. I may have to reduce my working hours and pay for childcare. currently, i rely on MIL, and I'm hoping they'll want to continue with the current arrangement, but this will depend on whether I want to continue living here or moving away from them.

Long term, i'll probably move, because I'll need the distance from them. Short term, prob good to have them close which may help to keep things amicable.

[Pennies]

Nanog - I remember your previous thread well and I'm sorry to hear that it has now started again.

It sounds to me like he has quite a sex addiction going on here - do you think that if he sought some help with that then you might be able to maybe work on rebuilding your relationship?

In addition maybe Relate might help too for both of you?

[monkeyfacegrace]

I obv dont know your circumstances, and I was a stay at home mum so of course, becoming single I had all benefits under the sun thrown at me. Proud to say I was off them within 6 weeks though! But, now I live with my accountant boyf, and work 16 hours a week too, I still get 80% of my nursery fees paid by tax credits. Again, this is all done on circumstances but might be worth finding out about?
Though, if she has an ounce of worth, the MIL wont stop the current arrangement, as she gets time with grandkids, so try not to worry.
But logistics aside, there is life outside of a marriage breakdown, and though it takes a while to find, its FANTASTIC when you do!
In hindsight, I wonder why I stayed for as long as I did, and you will too.
Stay strong, and keep your head held high, you sound like a great mum x