Our 6th visit to the Stately Home.....

[oneplusone]

Hi all, took the liberty of starting a new thread. Keep on posting!

Pinky

I would fully agree with the responses of BoptheAlien and Smithfield (hello!) to you. Your Mother is pulling out all the stops on the emotional blackmail front now - its typical toxic parent type stuff to pull all that nonsense. Such toxic people are depressingly predictable when it comes to pulling such blackmail.

Its not your fault she is like this; she has been hardwired thus likely by her own parents.

If you haven't already done so read "Toxic Parents" written by Susan Forward. Your H may also find it helpful to read "Toxic Inlaws" by the same author.

With best wishes

Attila (another year older today!)

P.S have a piece of virtual birthday cake on me!. Smithfield and Bop (well infact everyone who posts on this thread) you're all welcome to have a piece of cake too.

P.P.S V annoyed with parents this past weekend re them breaking a long standing arrangement to sit DS although they did seem remorseful. As DH said at the time though my bro comes first yet again!.

Atilla- Happy Birthday to you!!! I will gladly share some cake. Thankyou

I hope you know (although I'm certain you do) that it is their or more 'particularly' your mothers problem and has nothing to do with who you are Atilla.

Recently a post about a mother feeling rejected by her baby pushing her away made me think of you. I connected finally with how your mother emotionally (and physically) abandoned you and how painful that would have been. You 'are' the lost child aren't you.

But it was not your fault and not your job to meet 'her' (your mother's) needs.
Makes me .

Hopefully your ds was not too affected by his grandparents let down? He has his lovely mum as a buffer and thankfully so.

Sorry to interrupt but I was directed this way by Atilla (and happy birthday by the way - I baked a coffee and walnut cake yesterday and though it's a bit burned at the edges, I'm sending you a virtual piece...)

I've often lurked on this thread and it's predecessors but they get so long that it takes eons for them to download and they crash my computer, which is why I've rarely contributed to them. I see they are a sanctuary for people who've experienced similar things from their parents and my goodness, when I read your posts I feel like I've come home in a way that nobody has ever been able to understand or empathise with me before. I'm sure you all feel the same.

I suffered years and years of emotional abuse at the hands of my (very toxic and manipulative) mother and despite this have managed to become successful as a wife and friend and as a mother. I have been helped by counselling and psychotherapy (about 8 years worth in total) and by books such as toxic parents and "when you and your mother can't be friends" which was recommended by someone on one of these threads.

I am pregnant with my second child (am overdue by three days and a bit emotionally vunerable as a result) and I have gradually distanced myself from her since Christmas. We exchanged emails in February in which she accused me of all sorts of stuff (mainly thoughts about her, such as being ashamed of her because we "move in different financial circles"). I finally had enough of her and told her she needed professional help (which she glossed over and didn't acknowledge as you rightly predicted Atilla). I didn't say I didn't want to see her, I told her I needed "time and distance" and was finding her behaviour increasingly hard to cope with.

She subsequently cancelled a magazine subscription she had given me as a birthday present last December (her attempt at revenge). She also got my sister to email me saying I should be nicer to her because "I've only got one mum". My sister is 15 years younger and did not suffer any abuse.

At the beginning of this month she contacted me via email, which I had predicted would happen because she would have known the baby was due in June but would have forgotten the date. Her email was dressed up as wishing me well with the baby and I didn't respond to it, partly because I feared what I might say but mainly because she took the tack "I'm sorry we are not friends any more", which failed to acknowledge her own behaviour (or cancelling the birthday present).

She has now started contacting my friend via facebook to ask them if I've had the baby. I'm feelign very upset and hounded by her. Would appreciate any support and advice.

Thank you Smithfield and Attila.
And Happy Birthday Attila

Yes I've read the Susan Forward book, I ticked nearly all the boxes on the charts, and that was when I knew I needed to get help. I will find the other book for DH, thanks for the tip.

You are right, this is a fairly predictable pattern for my mother. The big differences is that I have not capitulated and apologised, in order to return to the status quo. And this is really the first time she has shown other people (ie my DH) her really toxic side. She usually keeps that for me, in fact she has always been very good at keeping up her public face.

I have not rung her today.

It's been really hard. I was quite brave in that I took a phonecall from my sister, but weirdly she was being really friendly and made no mention of my mother.

I could convince myself that I have made progress with my sister, but this again follows the nice/nasty pattern. This could just be a blip.

I just never know what I'm going to get.

If I am not ringing my mother, how long am I not ringing her for? Do I wait until she calls again, or so?or maybe just wait a day

I can see I'm not 'getting it' am I? There is no way to rectify the situation and I'm still trying to create positive outcomes for my relationship with her. I cannot bear the idea that this is futile.

I do know how much happier I am when she is not around. I have space to processs my own thoughts without constantly having to worry about how to manage her, how to keep her happy, and to meet her constant demands to know every detail of my life. It is like I am back to square one, where my real life is just the background to the main act- keeping my mother happy.

Mogwai as you may gather I am only about 6 months into this process, and prolly not much help, but you have my sympathies.

pinky- Just take it one day at a time. Any more than that and you will feel overwhelmed.
Of course I understand only too well that awful dawning that there is no positive outcome. Well, except there is, by not dancing to your mothers tune you will create more space for YOU. In turn your 'new' family can only benefit from that.
You are right I think in not being completely trusting with your sister.

mogwai - I read your original post about your relationship with your mother and my heart went out to you.
Your mother really is a piece of work isn't she
This is 'all' about her Mogwai. All about your mother and 'her' needs STILL.
She needs to uphold her image as the caring mother, not just for the benefit of others but for her 'own' benefit. Underneath it all there lurks a very frail ego which she has protected all these years by casting 'you' as the villain while she gets away scot free.
When finally you say '..no more' and she cant stand it because her whole existence has been built around this lie that somehow you are the problem.
She is continuing to role play in your absence isnt she. Poor mum
The most important thing currently is YOU. And of course the baby. But the baby depends soley on YOU, so we are back to your needs and this alone is what you must currently tend to.
I would ask your friend to please not tell you if your mother makes contact that you dont want to know. Once the baby has been born and you are less vulnerable you can think some more about contact with her. But not now.
Does this friend know the background to all this? If so why is she telling you about your mother's contact?

Pinky, so glad that what I wrote helped. It is a real change to come on here and find that what I say is appreciated and valued when it does hit the mark in some way, after the years and years I had as unpaid counsellor and confidante to my mother (and my father, to a degree), with no thanks or acknowledgement at all. Looking back, I realise that although my mother dumped on me endlessly (about her husband - "your father" and her MIL - "Grandma", and her work, primarily, when I was just starting secondary school myself), and I listened, took it all in, took it all upon myself and tried desperately to find solutions for her, she never ONCE - not ONCE - said "thanks Bop for listening, it really helps me to have the chance to offload" or "thanks Bop, you're a really good listener". She NEVER acknowledged that I was doing anything useful at all. So not only was I her dumping ground for all the things she didn't want to deal with in an adult way, it also made me feel like a complete and utter failure because of course I couldn't solve these situations for her. And she would just come back time and time again with more of the same stuff and so I thought it must be all my fault because I hadn't worked it all out. With hindsight I see that she had no intention of ever actually addressing any of these issues, because she totally lacked the courage necessary to take any of them on; offloading to me on a regular basis helped her to function, kept her sane, and so that was ok by her. The effect it had on me was completely irrelevant; she never had to trouble herself to think about the effect it had on me because in her unconscious mind she had relegated me to a variety of sub-species that didn't actually have any feelings or needs of its own, which was terribly convenient for her, and a genuine tragedy for me.

I am boiling over with rage at her and i still don't know what to do with it. (have tried the whacking pillows etc and tbh unfortunately it doesn't work for me.) Actually, the thing that works the best is chucking out the things she's given me over the years, and i know i have to keep going with that.

Pinky, another thing i thought - if her world is falling apart, it is HER responsibility and not YOURS, and the fact she has made it your responsiblity to keep her world together for her for all these years is emotional abuse in itself. Of course my mother did the same to me.

Smithfield, thanks for your comments - I have dealt with it better than in the past but it's still had a terrible effect on me, and I can still barely bring myself to admit the rage I got in with DS and myself today. It is terrifying to have borne the brunt of so much anger and then to find it all still circulating in your own system. And when she ignores my expressly stated wishes not to get in touch, she triggers it all again. In this respect I still feel powerless - even this simple request she cannot concede. She doesn't want me - she's never wanted me - she just doesn't want to lose her self image as a "good mother". But that is one area I am standing absolutely firm on. She can maintain her self image and her image of her husband as a good father, and her son as a good brother; but she can't have all that AND me and my family as well. She has to choose. Typically, she wants to have her cake and eat it - she wants the image to all stay intact and me to just fall into line making it easy for her like I was supposed to. Well she can f* off. I have actually now got to the point that some others on this thread are at - after years of being frightened of her dying while we are estranged, because of the guilt that would ensue, I would now almost welcome it, I would welcome the relief of knowing she's out of my life for good. Because the more I see through her, the worse she appears, and the greater the damage I realise she did me, and still does me when she pulls stunts like this.

Attila, thanks for the cake! and happy birthday!

Mogwai, the manipulation sounds very familiar, my mother always does that thing of pretending she doesn't understand why we have "fallen out", despite my having wasted copious amounts of energy and precious years of my life trying to explain to her, back when I still thougt she wanted to understand. It's also a way of minimising the whole situation. Acting like it's just some kind of best friend's tiff. Bitch bitch bitch from hell (you can take that to mean your mother or mine, whichever you prefer!!). Anyway, fwiw, I totally support you in not contacting her, it sounds like she's yet another one who will never actually be reasonable, so what is the point of being reasonable with her? I found with my mother that if I did try to talk to her, I ended up degenerating into the same kind of mad drama bullshit that SHE is so comfortable and at home with. I totally empathise with your feelings of being upset and hounded, it really is close to the knuckle and at a time like this too - my mother went through my whole pregnancy without contacting me and then sent flowers when DS was born, as if it were the most normal thing in the world. I have written before about how a lot of the upset comes from the false hope that these moves can engender - the abandoned daughter in us still DOES want mummy to come back and say "of course I love you and fron mow on I'm going to look after you properly and be a real mummy", and speaking for me, I know that every time my mother makes a move, all that hope comes to the surface, quite unbidden, and when of cousre it turns out that she's only offering the same old lies and manipulation as always, it hurts like hell and the place where it hurts is so deep I still haven't healed it after nearly 20 years of trying. BUT... I am getting closer to it. I wish you well with all this and the birth, my advice would definitely be to keep her away from you if at all possible, if that's practically and emotionally feasible, but even if not, to do whatever work on yourself you can (as if you'll have the energy/time, lol!).

Back to me - would appreciate any support in coping with this rage. It was dreadful today. It is so hard to be an authority figure and have someone's life in my hands all day, every day, when I was brainwashed and emotionally abused into thinking I was completely and utterly useless and not to be trusted with anything, and that brainwashing was so deep it prevented me from leading any kind of functional adult life till I was in my 40's, and then only after years and years of work. I am so, so angry with them but of course when it's just me and DS there's no room for those feelings, and I get very little space/time to work on them. When I DO do the work, it's very effective, but it's so hard to create that space. DS not given to watching a DVD happily by himself for any length of time! Nap times I need to eat/rest myself, and he wakes up a lot anyway. I feel between a rock and a hard place.

bop- On a postive note. I think this anger is good, albeit difficult to manage.
Its a tricky one and one I dont cope with rage well either. I seem to constantly engage with my rage re my mother in bouts and yes it is incredibly difficult to deal with when you have small children to tend to and there is no respite.
My one and only suggestion is one I have used and Im not sure I should recommend it. It depends on wether you drive or not. But I have been known to drive down motorway on dh's return from work, radio on full blast and scream at the top of my voice.
Other than that writing in capitals(like shouting) helps or writing a venomous letter that I will never send.
BTW-Totally relate to being the emotional dumping ground. I could have written that part of your post myself.

Bop you are fab, not useless at all. The rage is so hard to deal with. AT the moment I often end up shouting at DH, shoving him sometimes, too. I do housework really quickly- this helps, though I have broken cupboard latches in my temper.

I hate it, and it becomes another thing to hate myself for.

I am managing to absorb myself in my day to day life much more recently (well until yesterday). I have a tendency to rant about her whilst sewing or suchlike in the evening. I can't go out because DH is at work most evenings, but have yopu tried running or suchlike? I always took myself off for long and very fast walks before I had my children.

I am sorry I am not much use to anyone, when you give me so much support.

I just hate myself for taking thigns out on DH. I don't do it often, but last night I was in a right state and I pushed him (he didn't move, he's considerably taller and stronger than me). I ened up beating a pile of pillows up. But still I feel like crap for shouting at DH.

I bet you all think I'm horrible now.

Hi Smithfield and all

Smithfield, re your comments to me I have put my responses underneath:-

"Atilla- Happy Birthday to you!!! I will gladly share some cake. Thankyou"

Thank you all for your birthday wishes; I only wish I could have given you some cake personally.

"I hope you know (although I'm certain you do) that it is their or more 'particularly' your mothers problem and has nothing to do with who you are Atilla".

Oh yes Smithfield, I realise that. Learnt that years ago mainly after the birth of DS. They are an abject lesson in how not to behave. On a wider level I hope the others who post here realise that they should not take ownership of their parents' issue.

"Recently a post about a mother feeling rejected by her baby pushing her away made me think of you. I connected finally with how your mother emotionally (and physically) abandoned you and how painful that would have been. You 'are' the lost child aren't you".

Neneh Cherry sangs "I was lost but now I'm found, I've got my two feet on the ground". It's strange really; it was only years after the events that I fully realised what they actually did. They won't take any responsibility though. Basically I was trusted, well left really, to get on with it from my late teens. There was no real closeness from either of them since that time. Have come across others in similar situations, am not the only one by any means.

"But it was not your fault and not your job to meet 'her' (your mother's) needs".

Exactly, that's not my role. Have wondered where it all came from and I have to link it back to her parents, particularly her Dad who was always a dour sort. Her own Mother was smashing though and her death left its mark on me.

"Hopefully your ds was not too affected by his grandparents let down?"

Yes DS will be alright and we have alternative sitters (the dreaded inlaws unfortunately but DS gets on well with them). Its not every day that Bruce Springsteen plays at Hyde Park (this was the reason why I asked them to babysit).

"He has his lovely mum as a buffer and thankfully so".
I can only but at that kind comment.

With best wishes

Attila x

Pinky

I don't think you're horrible at all. Well done also for taking your anger also out on a pile of pillows, it helps. I am certain your DH is and will remain understanding. He knows what your Mother (and goodness what a nasty piece of work she is) is like.

Be kind to yourself.

Attila x

Attila, Happy Birthday! I hope you had a nice day.

Just wanted to say hello all, am back from my little break and feel so much the better for it. I managed to switch off from all of this for a few days, but it all hit me with a vengeance yesterday. I guess i wasn't switching off, more like bottling up. Anyway, saw my counsellor yesterday and cried for most of the session but felt so much better afterwards. I hadn't seen her for 3 weeks so there was a lot of stuff i had been holding inside.

As usual, there is loads and loads for me to catch up on, will have to try and do my best to read all the posts over the last week or so. I managed to have a skim through just now and what struck me is how predictable toxic people are in their behaviour and responses. All our parents/siblings may say/do different things in each of our individual circumstances, but essentially the message is always the same: none of them ever seem to see or hear the real you, they never seem to be able to understand how you feel as a result of their words/actions.

This is one of the things I was talking about with my cousellor in relation to my sisters. My sisters confuse me because they can be quite 'nice' at times. ie we talk pleasantly on the phone, when we meet we usually have a nice time. But, as soon as I start being the 'real me' ie talking about my feelings and how i have been hurt/upset by things they or somebody else has said/done, their 'niceness' evaporates and they in turn show their 'real selves' and each and every time they show me how much they don't care about the 'real me'. They only 'like' and want the 'me' that always ignores and never says anything about their nasty/careless comments towards me, the me who never complains about being treated as second best/an afterthought.

Recently, when i have finally had the courage to reveal my true feelings to my sisters and thus the real me, i have had from one sister the message that i should put up and shut with being treated badly and cruelly by others and that i am being oversensetive (how many times have we all heard that one from our 'families'?); and from the other sister that she has done nothing wrong and it's all my fault as i am viewing things in a 'negative' light.

The more I am able to see the pattern of behaviour with my sisters and the way they treat me the more i am able to take a step back and start to feel 'detached' from them as opposed to 'attached'. And i know it was my unhealthy attachment to them that was constantly drawing me to towards them, seeking something that they could never give me and therefore always ending up hurt/upset and disappointed.

I feel that by being detached, i can still have a distant relationship with them, but without them being able to hurt me anymore, because i am no longer hoping for something from them that they are unable to give me. The analogy of constantly looking into an empty cupboard and always hoping it contained what you wanted but always finding it empty comes to mind. Perhaps I have finally realised the cupboard will always be empty and i have stopped looking. Far from making me feel sad and lonely, it is a liberating feeling, realising that i was hoping for something from my sisters that they will never be able to give me (unless and until they address their own issues caused by their childhood which i feel is very unlikely, i think in our case i was the only one lucky enough to be 'gifted' with the ability to go on this journey).

I can see my sisters are still totally locked in their particular roles, acting our their particular 'dramas'; completely unaware how their past is controlling them today. I have the intellectual knowledge of the pain and hurt they have caused me over the years and perhaps i have felt some of this pain emotionally, but not all of it, i am sure there is still a lot of pain still trapped inside me, until something triggers and releases it.

I feel so much better today. I have more energy, my eczema is improving daily, i feel i want to do things instead of just hide away at home because i feel too scared and vulnerable to go out and face the outside world. But it's a gradual process, i know it is two steps forward and one step back, i am sure i will still have down days.

Everybody .... and breathe.....

I've not been on this particular thread for a few days as I've been trying very hard to deal with my own feelings of extreme stress due to work-related issues.

I've been catching up on all your posts and wonder if anyone can work themselves into a situation (bear with me) of erecting a glass wall between them and their toxic mothers/families etc? I ask this because as you know, I have an odd Mum who complained that I rejected her as a baby and then for the rest of my life so far, has at very important times, let me down emotionally (ie. when my OH died).

Since that happened and the birth of my daughter 3 months after my OH died - which goes without saying, left me very emotionally vulnerable, I have managed to think about what happened during my childhood/growing up/being grown up. I mentioned that I turned my back on my family to concentrate on my little family unit.

I have got to the mental state of having a glass wall between me and my mum. She will continue to let everyone down because of her lack of self-awareness and because any situation is "all about her". But, I can now shrug my shoulders because I don't feel responsbible for how she is. I'm responsible for me. If she is still going to live with her glass half-empty, that's down to her. My glass is still half-full. I've now got to the stage where I can just shrug my shoulders at her and say to myself "whateverrrrr" and dismiss it and think, well, that's your loss....

The latest incident happened this morning about half an hour ago. She ate something last night which didn't agree with her. This is a very, very frequent occurrence. So, she's still in bed feeling unwell. As a result, she's probably going to miss my daughter's first sports day tomorrow. At the end of the day, she's the one wasting her life and missing out because she can't/won't change. I absolutely refuse to let this affect me to the extent that I waste my precious emotions/energy. I will not waste any more of my life worrying about it all - my life is my life and I aim to spend it with a little less stress in it than I had previously.

I'd also like to say that I don't think that anyone on here is horrible, terrible, etc. As Louise Hay says "when you know better, you do better"..... and everyone is on that journey....

PS: Atilla Happy Birthday!
PPS: OPO my bit about putting up a glass wall, was another expression of "detatching" as you were mentioning in your post....

I also know I have a lot of anger and pain inside from the past as a result of things DH has said/done. I'm not sure how to deal with these buried feelings, I feel i need to address them as they are causing a barrier between me and DH even though I pretend everything is ok and I don't think he is even aware of how i really feel inside. But sometimes he does something to trigger me and i 'explode' at him and i can tell he is wondering why i am exploding so furiously at the thing in the 'present' which is relatively minor. I know it is all the past anger and pain that is being triggered but I don't know how to talk to him about it.

Just briefly going back to my sisters, i think 'freeing' myself, or detaching myself from them will also, hopefully, lead me to making more friendships. I feel i have always been quite closed until now with people that i meet who i could be friends with because somehow this attachment to my sisters was holding me back. I hope things will be different now and that i will feel inclined to make more of an effort with the people i already know and new people that i meet. I have always had very close friendships for most of my life (although i can see now they were actually unhealthy attachments on my part as i was looking for what i wasn't getting from my parents at home), but i feel now i don't actually know how to 'conduct' a friendship in RL. I don't want to appear too keen, nor too reserved, i want to be open but not too much; i don't really have, and never have had, a healthy example to follow in this respect.

In the past i know i have got too attached far too quickly to anyone who so much as gave me a second glance or was nice to me in the tiniest way. But now i realise i can and need to be a bit more discerning in who i decide to have a relationship with, i don't know how to actually conduct that relationship once i have decided that the other person is someone i like and trust and respect and where my feelings are reciprocated.

Writing this out makes me realise that my one remaining friend from years and years ago is not somebody that i trust, like or respect, and yet i feel i cannot let her go. Again i realise i probably developed an unhealthy attachment to her when i first met her almost 25 years ago. She befriended me really, but i think now it was because subconsciously she realised i had low self esteem and self confidence and so she could dominate me and be in control and that made her feel good. Again she is somebody who does not know the real me at all, i have never trusted her enough to reveal the true me to her, and that in itself is very telling. I shouldn't even really call her a friend, she is really just somebody i have known for a long time.

Lemon, hi, yes i understand what you say about putting up a glass wall. We can see the wall and know it's there but the people on the other side, your mother and my sisters don't know about it. They will keep trying to get through it so they can get to us, but the wall protects us.

I think your attitude towards your mother is spot on. It is her loss if she misses your DD's sports day. Your DD i am sure will simply want you there as you are her world.

Perhaps the cupboard analogy would also help? Your mother is an empty cupboard. Every time you look to her for something, you will not get it as she is unable to give it to you because she doesn't have it in her to give. So the only way to avoid constantly being hurt and disappointed by her is to stop looking to her to give you anything that you need.

It sounds simple and easy, but it has taken me a long time to reach this point with my sisters. It takes a lot of courage to detach and finally give up hoping your needs will be met by people who are simply unable to give you what you desperately need and have needed since you were born. But by detaching from these people, you close one door and thus allow yourself the possibility of opening new doors, behind which the things that we need may exist and be within our reach. I am sure that there are many other people in my world who are able to and willing to give me what i need, but until now i have not been willing to open any new doors because i was desperately clinging to the old familiar doors, perhaps because they felt safe compared to a scary new door, but the old doors had nothing behind them. And the new doors may be scary, but they hold so much positive potential and we all deserve to allow ourselves the chance to see what is out there.

AN - It would appear you want to finish it with your therapist before he can finish with you. You could abandon him before you could be abandoned. He accepts you for what you are - rather like your parents/family should have done. But why are you projecting onto him? You're trying to double guess what he thinks - Don't - because the sessions are "all about you" and not all about him. They're a chance for you to think about you and have someone help you do it. This is your chance to break out of the habit of having to double guess someone to keep yourself out of trouble or confrontation.

Get out of the habit of calling yourself a soft and drippy child, will you? Rather, substitute the words for a gentle and sensitive child. They're much more positive words and you shouldn't be beating yourself up for being that way. No-one should have to "toughen" up before their time. I certainly won't let it happen to my son. It happens when it happens. You shouldn't be forced.

Your posts above make me repeat what I posted here a while ago - everyone is so so harsh on themselves and beat themselves up for things that they were powerless to do anything about.

The fear you feel is a reflection of the fear you had as a child - it is not real fear and again, I'd mention the Healing the Child Within book - if you haven't read it, you might like to get hold of a copy in a shop and have a look at a few pages.

You will eventually make some sense of your session today - when you've had some time to let your thoughts settle down.

Regarding the long car journeys with your DH. How long is a long car journey for you? 10 miles? 20? 30? This could be broken down into manageable chunks. Its all about ways of dealing with the fear and rationalising it. Regarding bad things happening to your children, what are bad things? To some people, a kiddie falling over is a bad thing, to someone else its something different. Can you be a bit more specific? With our "odd" childhoods, some of us have become "fixers" which is a coping mechanism. Maybe those of us who are "fixers" can help to find coping tools for everyone to use? Does that sound patronising? I hope not, it's certainly not meant to be - I think that it's my way of dealing with things because I didn't have my parents there to fix it.....

Hello everyone.
Attila- thank you. I got myself into a bit of a state last nigth. When DH came home he sort of laughed at me, in a nice way.

I think it is part of the effect she has on me- I start with the whole I am actually a bad person thing- I still want to excuse her behaviour by blaming myself.

She is not havign a nervous breakdown, nto at all. She sent a round robin email of holiday snaps today, with a little aside to my sis about some aussie thign they had found on holiday- so clearly she has had perfectly happy conversations with my sister, and prolly my brother. I know she gets stressed if my sibligns don't contact her for a week or so, but I know they don't get the barrage of crap for it that I get.

Oh God. So she is here, not physically, but here in my head again, taking up so much of my thoughts. Ringing her won't make any difference, will it? In fact, it will probably make thigns worse, because no matter what I actually say she will know that she asked for me to call and I called- she would settle for that for a bit, I'm sure. But I don't want to do any of her bidding. Is this wrong?

AN as regards your therapist. I go through this sort of 'shall I stay or shall I go' routine eveytime a session becomes iminent. I would not just stop, if I were you. Maybe see how you go for these weeks he is away. Even if you just went once a month it would be better, but aside from that, what Lemony said sounds liike good addvice.

Hi everyone!

I had my little girl on the 16th June. She was born in water and weighed a whopping 9lb 8oz! I have named her after my birth mother.

I am tired but elated and I have already bonded so much better than I did with my son at this stage. Thank you all for listening and helping me get through this pregnancy.

I will keep posting when I can. My adoptive parents are coming up a week today so I will let you know how that goes. I feel strong at the moment and know they can't manipulate me.

Bye for now

Oh wow that's great news Rosability! Congratulations.xx

Roseability

Wooo!! Hoo!!! Oh, congratulations!