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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Our 6th visit to the Stately Home.....

988 replies

oneplusone · 19/05/2009 11:52

Hi all, took the liberty of starting a new thread. Keep on posting!

OP posts:
wanttostartafresh · 18/12/2009 13:19

Am going to apologise for the following about me,me,me. Only have limited time and have got to get this stuff out of my head or I will explode.

Was younger sister's birthday recently. The night before her birthday I was in bed about to fall asleep when i suddenly sat bolt upright feeling terrified. I thought that it had been her birthday that day and that I had completely forgotten about it. I had only been planning on sending her a text anyway, but i thought i had forgotten to do even that. I was terrified that she would be very angry and annoyed with me and that she would no longer want anything to do with me. Then I realised what day it was, that her birthday was the following day, that I hadn't forgotten to send her a text. Then i felt angry with myself for feeling so terrified when i thought i had in fact forgotten her birthday. And i realise now this whole thing relates back to many years ago when I am sure i hadn't forgotten younger sister's birthday but she seemed to think i had and she was very angry with me as a result. I think the incident from the past was one year when i hadn't got her a card or a present because i was away around the time of her birthday but had still remembered and called her to say happy birthday. But because i hadn't got her a card/present she had thought i had forgotten. Just shows how ungrateful and arrogant she actually is. Every other year i had always been generous with presents and cards and this particular year i was away with my boyfriend at the time and i suppose i was very wrapped in him that i hadn't got her a card/present. But i hadn't forgotten altogether and i did call her on the day to wish her a nice day. But she was angry and annoyed at the lack of present/card and didn't hold back in telling me so. She didn't appreciate that i had at least made the effort to call her.

So back to this year. I sent her a text on the day, just literally saying Happy Birthday and nothing else and she didn't even send a quick thank you back to me. And i feel a bit upset about that and once again i am wondering if she hasn't replied because she is annoyed or if there is some other completely unconnected reason. The fact though that her non-reply is bothering and worrying me means there is still some attachment there on my part, to her. I wish there wasn't, i wish i was indifferent to her and she did not have the power to affect me in any way. But i'm not there yet. I love the description I think PM gave above, about how even once you have got out of the tin of treacle which is your family, it is still a long and hard job getting all the sticky mess off yourself. I have managed to get out of the tin but still have treacle on me. It once again makes me realise how hard it must have been for me, as a child, to reach the point of complete detachment and indifference wrt my parents, but i know i got there as that is all i can remember feeling about them now, absolutely nothing.

Re DH; I have begun to feel recently that he is rather toxic, unsurprisingly giving his mother. He completely lacks the ability to empathise and instead blames me of some negative trait if i mention something that bothers me. Eg. I sometimes feel quite sad and upset at how my life has changed since i had the DC's and became a full time SAHM. Before that i had a good job, lots of friends, good social life, would regularly meet friends/colleagues for nice lunches or drinks/meals after work. All that has now completely stopped and yet for DH life is much the same as it always was. He still goes out for lunch, meets friends after work and goes to nice restaurants. But if i ever talk to him about how i feel quite sad and even a bit depressed about the loss of my own work/social life, he just thinks i am jealous of him going to nice restaurants for lunches/dinners. He immediately casts me in a negative light, seeing me as jealous and ungrateful for what i've got rather than seeing and understanding the genuine sadness i feel at how much i have given up for the sake of our DC's. He also accused me of being jealous of younger sister's big house when again i'm not jealous of her house, it's more a sadness for myself at how i have to struggle and work to get to where i am and she has had such a smooth ride with help and encouragement and support all along the way from my parents, not being dragged down all the time like me. Perhaps that's too much for DH to really understand, but i feel very hurt by his willingness to accuse me of jealousy. It makes me feel he has a very low opinion of me as a person and i am wondering why i would want to be with somebody that thinks of me in that way.

I know now that I don't love DH and i know i never did. When i met and married him there was a part of me that knew he was a solid, decent reliable man who would look after me and at that time without realising it i think i needed a 'safe' place to be, away from my family, where i would no longer be exposed to their abuse and i knew he would provide that for me. And that is exactly what he has done. But now that i am stronger and healing from the abuse, i am starting to look at him a bit more closely and notice more things about him and finding that there is a lot i don't like about him. Until now i think i have ignored many things about him as i couldn't cope with dealing with him as well as my family issues. But now that i am able to focus a bit more on him, unfortunately i realise there is a lot i don't like about him. And i am finding it so hard to pretend i do in fact love him. He seems to love me, he tells me that his love for me is what has kept him here throughout all the difficulties we have been through. But i don't love him and i don't think i ever have, not in the way you are supposed to love your DH. Or perhaps i love him but i don't like him. I'm really not sure which it is.

I got in touch recently with a friend whom i had stopped contacting about 2 years ago because she hurt me quite badly. She was very apologetic about her behaviour and i accept that she was going through a very difficult time herself when we fell out. Before we fell out we were very close, she was probably the one person i confided in the most, especially about all my family stuff. But i think now i was expecting far too much of her, far too much of just one friend. I realise i was wanting her to fill the 'mother' gap in my life and i think i had probably developed an attachment to her subconciously hoping she would give me what my mother hadn't. Of course she was unable to fulfil my expectations and i ended up hurt and disappointed although aside from that she did behave horribly to me for which she readily apologised. I suppose i am saddened at what i realise has been going on all my life. The whole time, i have been looking to the various friends and people in my life, including my sisters, to fill the huge gap left by my mother. There is not such a huge gap left by my father, as despite the horrible abuse, there were times when i felt he geniunely loved and cared about me. He is definately mentally ill which is the cause of the abusive behaviour. I think i have even looked to DH to fill some of the gap left by my mother and to a small extent he has filled the gap.

It just goes to show how essential and crucial and important it is for there to be a secure attachment between mother and child. It is the lack of that attachment that has been the cause of all my problems throughout my life, even though i have not always recognised that i have had problems. I thought i had some very close friendships as a child/teenager/young adult, but i realise now that from my pov, i had developed an attachment to these friends, in place of the attachment i should have had with my mother. And for many years, i always seemed to have this substitute attachment figure which must have sustained me in some way, even though i must have felt hurt and disappointment as well, as the friends that i had would never themselves feel attached to me like a mother would and so would never have fulfilled the needs i was looking to them to fulfil. But they did stop me from feeling the full impact of the hole in my life for many years. I am only really feeling it now i suppose when all the relationships that previously sustained me have fallen away. It feels painful to know there is such a big gap in my life, but i feel better knowing about the gap rather than blindly hurtling headlong into relationships which would only end up hurting and disappointing me. Knowing myself means i know what i want and need and am looking for and that feels good. Before i had no clue whatsoever and thinking about that feels scary.

BeginningAnew · 18/12/2009 13:35

Message withdrawn

PinkyMinxyPie · 18/12/2009 14:12

WTSA I hope you can find a way through this confusion of feelings wrt your DH.

I am finding this whole Christmas thing very difficult. My christmas card from the one auntie left who is still in contact with me has no mention of 'love' in it. The one to my children does. Every time a card comes through the door I begin to feel anxious. i had considered trying to see this auntie whilst my parents were away over Christmas but I'm not sure now if I dare try. I fear the rejection.

I hate feeling like this. And it makes me feel so much new anger towards my mother and father. What are they playing at? I just do not understand thier motives. It's a bit like your sister, WTSA, I know mine are very similar - they think it's ok to demand that someone wishes them a happy birthday- how bizarre is that? My sis is a bit like this with me- say you love me you horrible person- and she really cannot see why that would be wrong- she is so justified in her mind. I think that is how my parents think, too.

I'm sorry I chewing everyone's ear off at the moment I am just struggling so much with this- I don't want it to blight my fammily's Christmas.

I am not looking forward to this exchange of presents my mother wants to do. I prolly won't have anything at all (not even for DC) from one Auntie and I just don't know now from the other. It's silly becuase I don't really mind if DH's Auntie rmemebers or not- because there is no hidden message in it- I knwo that when I see her she will be fine with me. Gah I WISH i COULD GET THESE PEOPLE OUT OF MY HEAD.

roseability · 18/12/2009 18:44

someone mentioned here about attachment to friends. I can so relate to that. I always craved a 'best friend' but no one seemed to see me in that way. I have always had friends, but never a really close friend. I think my problem is twofold. I think firstly like WTSA said I expect too much (a replacement parent). Secondly, and I am ashamed to admit this, but I used to attention seek with men quite a lot. I would flirt, get drunk and doll myself up with the sole intention of getting men to look at me. I realise now that this probably put women off being close to me. Who wants someone who is trying to compete with them re attractiveness?

I am no longer like this. I never really thought I was attractive but actually was inherently insecure. My parents are very narcissistic, only perfection will do. You are either better than everybody in the world or worse than everyody in the world. I internalised this belief that I was only worthy based on my successes. I found it hard to really get close to people because I was always trying to be better than them

It makes me sound horrible doesn't it? I have changed so much since I realised I was abused. I find it easier to make friends now and I feel this is because I am being myself and not trying to compete. Sure I would love to lose a couple of stone and of course I would be flattered if another man looked at me but I don't 'need' this to feel worthwhile IYSWIM

My DH fancies me and that is enough and I now have other dimensions to my life e.g. my kids. I am so glad I stepped out of the treacle can, it has made me a nicer person and I was in danger of being quite narcissistic myself (of course the fact that I have this insight means I am not really narcissistic!)

I have lost friends and almost my DH because if my outrageous flirting and I will always regret this. I know I was wrong and ultimately I am responsible for my own actions. However having worked on myself through therapy I know my behaviour was influenced by my inherent self hatred which was internalised from my adoptive parents. My adoptive father would call me fat and I suppose I thought if men were looking at me, then it proved I wasn't fat.

Ironically now I am bigger than I have ever been having produced two beautiful children, I feel more secure about my body than ever before. This is because I am slowly getting rid of the last bits of treacle that is my hideous adoptive father and his internalised bullying voice

wanttostartafresh · 18/12/2009 18:56

BA thank you for your post. I am confused about my feelings for DH. I definately don't like him, but perhaps i do love him? I really don't know.

PM, I know how you feel "Gah I WISH i COULD GET THESE PEOPLE OUT OF MY HEAD". Me too! Ever since the non-reply from my sister the whole thing has been bothering me and I am constantly thinking about why she hasn't replied. It has taught me one thing though, I am NEVER again going to put myself in such a vulnerable position. I am not going to initiate any sort of contact again, be it phone/text/email etc. I might reply to them if they contact me but I am not going to initiate any sort of contact again. The next thing would have been new year's eve. I normally send Happy NYE texts to friends and my sisters. I can just see myself texting my sisters this year and recieving no reply and then me stewing over that into 2010. I am not falling into that trap again. I am not going to text them and i'm not sure whether i will even reply to them if they text me first. Although i'm absolutely sure that if i didn't reply to them they certainly wouldn't waste even a split second worrying about why.

I keep reading horrible stories in the paper about children being abused/mistreated even murdered by their parents. And each time i end up crying. I can imagine so easily the pain, bewilderment, confusion and terror these children must have been feeling whilst their own father abused them with their mother nowhere to be seen. The stories i know are triggering emotional memories from my childhood where i was 'attacked' by my dad, with my mother doing nothing to help me.

I feel right now that there are a lot of emotions in me which are very close to the surface but i'm not sure what exactly they relate to and they seem to be triggered by almost anything.

roseability · 18/12/2009 18:58

Someone mentioned their father playing the dog lover even though he had been horrible to animals in the past

This is classical narcissism I think. My adoptive father and grandmother play the animal lovers and try to insinuate that I am not as caring about animals as they are. They are all over my cat when they come and love us to notice that he sits on their knee. My adoptive father treats him like a baby!

However they forget that I remember when I got my first kitten and my adoptive father would shut her outside and not let her in even though she scratched and howled at the door. She ran away never to be seen again even though I used to beg him to let her in

They got two rescue cats a while ago and would never take them to the vet for routine vaccinations or when they were ill. They claimed this was because they couldn't get them in the basket. Well my cat hates it too and sometimes I have to really grapple with him. It is all fake and they like humans have only ever been about narcissistic supply

I know my adoptive father rages at them when they don't comply with this image of animal lover. They have actually been very nervous animals and I wonder why? They haven't even got names

smithfield · 18/12/2009 20:53

wtsa- Someone mentioned on here that you are possibly grieving now for your relationship with your sisters. I think this is probably the case. Certainly way back when my db had his christening for his boys, that is when it dawned on me that I was never going to have the relationship I so badly craved. It was like falling of a precipice at the time.
It is incredibly painful and it is such early days. I think your realisation wrt your sisters is so recent.
Give yourself time and space to work through this.

As an aside I totally relate to the texting thing. Another mind hash. Everytime I communicate (in any shape or form) with my family I know I am laying myself open to rejection and it is so so painful. This is not how 'normal' family reaction should be surely.

BopTheAlien · 19/12/2009 00:07

Sorry to barge in. Have to just debrief a bit for myself. Had two therapy sessions within 5 days last week, both 2 and a half hour ones, and some really deep stuff is moving and coming to the surface. I am going back to the place that people have talked on here about before - the place where as a child you feel that to not have your parents' love will lead to your annihilation. Well, you don't feel it as a child, because you have to coat it in denial, but it is there - this primal terror.

I am "making contact" with the child I was who was so, so, so, so desperate for mummy's love, who felt that her life depended on mummy loving her. Genuinely. And I think that's really true, in a physical and emotional sense. I could not be sure of my survival if my mother didn't care for me. And on a fundamental level - emotionally - she didn't care about me. So my life was lived in terror. A visceral, primal fear of death, that was heightened by the fact I grew up knowing I'd had a sister who had died - so it was literally possible to be a child in our family and not to survive, physically - and also I grew up having asthma, which is a life-threatening condition. What can be more frightening than not being able to breathe? Literally not being able to draw breath into your lungs? How long can you survive without breathing? A few minutes at most. So every time I went through an attack I must have felt that I was potentially only minutes away from death, for all the endless hours those attacks went on for.

And the fear was always there even on the other days when I didn't have an attack. I had to take my inhaler every day, and I could never leave the house without it, not even to go out to play for 10 mins. The possibility of the attack that could possibly kill me was ALWAYS there, every waking moment - and when I slept too, really. And this was something in my own body. Not an external thing, but something deep in me, something tied to me forever, it seemed like, so there was no escape from it, no refuge. No place of safety at all.

Like I said, as a child I couldn't actually feel this fear, because of course the very lack of safety made it impossible for these feelings to be allowed to surface - I would have gone completely crazy if I'd been aware at that age of the extent of my feeling of unsafety, with no hope of any rescue or remedy; and the fact that there was not one single person in the family or outside it who was in any sense an ally or on my side made it even more unsafe and impossible to feel it. But now as an adult, with a life that is finally coming together, I have the safety. I have two adults in my life who care for me very very deeply and who see and know the real me and love that person - DH and my therapist. After two decades of my adult life spent living on the margins of society, I now have a "normal" life - marriage and motherhood, a stable home, a degree of financial security, friends; I have a place in the world finally. And, strangely, I have a very deep belief in myself - which somehow they never completely eradicated - I wouldn't be here today without that.

So I am finally starting to feel safe and I can now connect on a deeper level with the child whose feelings were buried for all that time, and I can finally feel what she felt but couldn't feel. I actually find this very exciting. I feel like I am owning a part of myeslf that was divorced from me; I am honouring the person I was who was so badly mistreated and misrepresented and left to suffer like a dog in a ditch; I am acting as my own champion, and I am allowing the truth to be told. You know, when I write this stuff, I still have a voice mocking me - that internalised parent/big brother who laughs at everything I do and sets out to crush any act of independence - but it's not as strong as the voice of my self belief so I'm sodding well writing it anyway.

None of this stuff is brand new for me, it's the old "layers of the onion" thing - a new, deeper level of the same old issues; a heightened awareness of things I was sort of aware of already. To those of you who haven't been doing therapy and so on for so long and who are dreading the journey ahead I just want to say - if I can without sounding pompous - that there is or there can be a great happiness in committing to the work as an ongoing thing. The more work I do, the better my life gets, and the greater my self respect grows, and the more I feel "on my own side". Why would I want to stop that process? But maybe I am a little unusual like that - my therapist has said that most of her clients stop going to her once the main thing they wanted to "fix" is fixed and that I am unusual in wanting to keep on going even now I've achieved what I originally wanted out of therapy - ie to have a normal life, to be a wife and mum.

But it's also about wanting to be the best mum I can be, and since having DS I've had even more demons come out to bite me; I don't want him to bear the brunt of that, and he will (and already has done) if I don't work at resolving things, so to me it seems clear cut: I keep working at this stuff. For my own happiness too, of course. It's hard and it takes a lot of energy but the rewards are incontesable, and the really hard stuff, to my mind, is living with the abuse and the effects of the abuse - and living with the big fat lie about it never having really happened. "but it wasn't that bad", "but we didn't mean to hurt you", "but I do love you" are all things I couldn't stand to hear my mother saying any more. Yes, it was that bad - actually it was worse - and the truth is you didn't actually care enough to stop it being that bad, and you still don't; and your "love" is entirely conditional and lacking in any protective force, and therefore meaningless. You are all still in stonkingly big denial about what really happened, who you are and who I am, and I need space from you to sort my own head out without your crazy-making lies getting in the way all the time. That's what I would say to them if there was any chance whatsover they'd listen to me; naturally they wouldn't.

BA, I loved what you wrote about your DH having instuctions to shred correspondence from your mother without even reading it or telling you. Brilliant! Can't do that myself (yet) but good to know someone can. After I sent my mother's last letter and cheque back to her, ripped up, I thought it might silence her, but no, yesterday her xmas card arrived to me and DH. So I did some work on the feelings it brought up and got all that stuff about the fear of dying if she didn't love me. It's still sitting unopened on the table. Anyway, it's good to realise that that's why part of me clings to the (unreal) possibility that she will write a real "I get it" letter one day; it's the child that needs to believe in her love or stare death in the face. Quite a potent force.

Pinky, just a word to you, because I don't think you have any idea how you come across. well, to me anyway - you seem just so sweet and caring and lovable. And the only reason you wouldn't know that or feel that about yourself is because your family did some truly horrible things to you. I often feel very protective of you when I read what you write; maybe you bring up similar stuff for me as in the child always afraid of saying or doing the wrong thing and upsetting other people, and the dread of the consequences of that.

And as usual I can relate to loads of other stuff on here too. Thanks as always for sharing, everybody. Big hugs to all you great gals on here. xx

smithfield · 19/12/2009 09:02

Pinky- can I just second what Bop wrote to you in her last post. I find everything you write on here incredibly helpful (as with all of you who write on here). Each time you write I identify and so unlock a little part of myself that might still be partially hidden.

Also just wanted to say something about the addiction thing. This is definately true of me. I was like an addict 'chasing' my family in order to recieve the extreme highs and lows which my relationship brought. If I wasnt chsing them I was chasing men who were 'equally' emotionally absent and abandoning.
It is only now that I really appreciate the peace and calm that Im beginning to exist in now. It is only 'very' recently that I have begun to let go of the craving to simulate the feelings attached to the drama that my old family brought.
I do feel that this is linked to my relationship with dh in some way also. My instincts say that part of me still craves the excitment that comes from the pull and push relationship I experinced with my parents. Therefore there is a level of disatisfaction in not having that in my relationshop with DH. This may be why I constantly feel there is 'something' lacking or missing.
There is no blood pumping, heart wrenching moments of screaming and shouting and door slamming and leaving. It is calm and it takes time to re-programme your brain in to realising that this 'is' still love but in a much healthier form.

BeginningAnew · 19/12/2009 09:06

Message withdrawn

therealsmithfield · 19/12/2009 09:23

interestingly I hadnt been able to make that connection until BA just likened it to the ex boyfriend scenario.
I would literally get into fetal poaition in a darkened room and stay lie that for days.

therealsmithfield · 19/12/2009 09:25

*'like' that- sorry many typos today- one fingered key tapping

roseability · 19/12/2009 11:19

I feel my posts make me sound so superficial. I find it hard to really get in touch with that inner child. I spoke to my therapist and told him that I feel as a child I was deeply hurting but I pretended everything was okay. That my parents were really my parents and that we had a happy, normal and loving family. I suppose like Bop said it was that survival instinct. It got me through my childhood.

I couldn't bear anything to go wrong and was so sensitive to changes in mood within people. I also found it easier to play along with what my parents had orchastrated i.e. my mother locked away in a mental institution breaking her heart whilst they played at happy families

I also have some more troubling memories coming to the surface. My adoptive father could be a little bit pervy at times. I don't remember him ever touching me but there is a feeling that he was slightly inappropiate at times. I wonder if I am making this up in my head because I need him to be 'all bad' to justify my feelings towards him. I sometimes am guilty of the dysfunctioanl black and white feelings that is so common in such families. Your either good or bad. I want them to be bad as I find it hard to equate any good things they have done with wanting nothing to do with them and denying them a relationship with my children

I know truthfully it isn't that simple and that whilst they have been rubbish parents in many ways it isn't black and white. They propbably have some good in them

One memory I have is that I always had to fight for my adoptive father's love it was never a given. When I was about seven or eight I would attempt to get his attention by making him undress me after school even though at this age I was more than capable of doing it myself. I feel really uncomfortable with this but I also have memories of feeling this would please him in some way. I cant really explain it in words but the memory feels inappropiate. On the other hand it could have been innocent regression on my part to get his attention and he just played along with it as he felt he was doing the right thing

He can be a bit pervy about teenage girls and on the odd ocassion was inappropiate to me when I was a teenager. He would make me try new clothes on and 'inspect' me or dare I say 'perv' at me. He was obsessed with my weight and hated anything that made me look fat. I know this is a bit weird as I have since noticed how other dads comment on their daughter's appearance and new clothes and they might say they look nice or pretty/beautiful but it feels right and normal

My adoptive father will often comment on young women and girls on the TV in quite a creepy way. Now I know a lot of middle aged men probably look at young women in this way sometimes and it is largely innocent but with my adoptive father it feels a bit strange. he works with teenagers and goes on about how these days if a male is in a room on his own with a girl there should be a witness/chaperone. He sounds affronted at this. He also once said that women who get raped must have been asking for it in some way

I once wrote a sex act on a piece of paper when I was eight. It was innocent and I didn't know what it meant. A school friend had probably heard it from an older sibling and dared me to write it down or something. My adoptive parents found it and shut me in my room every evening for days and I had to have my tea there. They made out I was slutty and sexualised me as an eight year old even though I didn't know what it meant. I think this is an inappropiate way to handle such a situation.
I might discuss this with my counsellor as it troubles me greatly. i want to recover memories and feel that pain that I couldn't as a child

whispywhisp · 19/12/2009 16:17

roseability.

I have just read your post from last night at 18:44.

Crikey you did have a hard time as a child didn't you.....what a young age you were to try and gain an adoptive father's love? Did he not treat you as his own child? Did he not show you love like blood-related Fathers? Do you ever look back and think you loved him as a Dad?

It's sad to think you may have regressed at such a young age (8yrs old) just to try and get your adoptive father to love you.

When you wrote the sex act on a piece of paper...rather than shut you away for evenings on end...did they not try and sit you down and talk to you? Ask you why you did it? Where did you get it from? Talk to you? How on earth can shutting you away in your room, on your own, eating your tea in your room, on your own...help?

My eldest DD (she is now almost 11yrs old) was sexually harrassed by a boy in her school a year ago. He was just 10yrs old at the time. He did some awful things towards her...he spread some awful rumours about her (things a child of his age should not even know) and kept her hostage in the girl's toilet for two lunch breaks - she sat there and cried until the bell went to go back to class.

I sat with her and talked, talked and talked. That boy was simply banned from going out to play at school. He wasn't even reprimanded at school because shortly after all this came out he was seen playing down at the local park after school.

Perhaps all those years ago adults dealt with situations differently to how they deal with them now...a bit harsher perhaps? These days I think kids get away with a lot more.

Once I realised what was going on with my daughter and this boy I had no choice but to move her schooling. The Governors of the school wanted the boy removed. The Head didn't. So we moved DD1 instead into another school a few miles away...we also had to move a very happy and settled DD2.

I have learnt, the hard way, that as a parent we must sit and listen to our kids - not shut them away. To shut them away must be so incredibly lonely for that poor child...and I feel quite sad to learn that is what they did to you. You poor thing. xx

whispywhisp · 19/12/2009 16:18

sorry...that should've read...'he wasn't even reprimanded at home'...

PinkyMinxyPie · 21/12/2009 17:10

Bop thank yuo for your words. They had a slightly strange effect on me though. I find iit very hard to take comments like that in. I find them very difficult.

But thank you you are so kind.

Not been able to get on here as my baby has HFM and has been really upset.

Rose I am sorry to hear about your relationship with youe adoptive father.
Hopefuly back later.

BopTheAlien · 22/12/2009 15:14

Just wretched today. Raging at myself and at DS, knowing it's wrong on both counts but can't stop it, the rot goes so deep. I think they all wanted me dead, my family. My brother overtly - he never concealed his hatred and contempt of me and it was obvious he would have liked me never to have been born; and my parents more covertly. They told me I was wanted, but they didn't act like I was wanted. They all acted like the world would be a much, much better place wihtout me. So I'm having one of those days where I feel like every single thing I do is wrong, or - if I do get on top of things for a short while - something else then goes out of kilter just as I'm sorting myself out, and I just start heading downwards again. Jobs that I thought were done turn out to be not done and I have to spend more time sorting them out; and all I want to do is go out and play in the snow with DS but I just seem to be stuck doing all this crappy stuff insteaad. I'm posting here now cause I can't show this face to the world, haev to try and cover it up - but I'm hurting so much inside today and I just want to feel less alone with it. I'm not looking for any solutions or being fixed, just want to be able to say that this how bad it gets. I really feel this like a physical thing, that they (unconsciously) wanted me dead, they were just always trying to suppress all my life energy, crush it and kick it out of me, it's almost like I can hear a voice in my head saying DIE DIE DIE and that voice is so hate filled, it really means it and I'm frightened of it. And I think I must have been so frightened of it as a child, even though it was so deep and unconcsious I had no awareness of it at all. To grow up feeling that hated and threatened by the very people who are supposed to love you and keep you safe. The panic/terror just seems to be extra near the surface at the moment. A lot to do with the time of year and the ramifications of that, all the family stuff; and the fact my mother sent me a card, yet again, once again going againt my repeated requests for her not to. It may look like she is trying really hard to be a loving mother, and that is how she wants it to look, but it's all about power really. she wants to show that it's her voice that matters, still, not mine. Anyway, for the first time, I managed finally to send it back to her - unopened. And that was a small triumph for me, and something I do feel entirely good about. Of course it still hurts. At this time of year especially it would be unimaginably amazing to have a really close loving family to be with. More relatives to make a fuss of DS than just his Nanny (MIL). It hurts to be this raw and vulnerable. It hurts to be not cared about. And I can see why I kept the delusion in place as long as I did that they did care really. I wasn't strong enough to cope with the truth before. I must be strong enough now - although I know there are still layers to get through - because I have got it so much more. Still hurts though. Am crying a lot today, DS still asleep for a short while longer so need to make the most of it to try and look after me for a bit.

roseability · 22/12/2009 15:31

Oh Bop I feel for you. I too am having a bad couple of days. My DS has been up the last couple of nights being sick from coughing so much and my DD is unsettled too. I have mountains of washing and ironing and I haven't wrapped a thing. I can't remember the last time I blow dried mt hair, wore make up or bought a new outfit.

I too wept this morning because when I am feeling the stresses of family life (as everybody does now and then) I have no mother of my own to phone and have a moan or to come round and give me a big hug and take some ironing away for me. SIL is up and my MIL will be making a big fuss of her and her family, they have a good relationship

I get anxious and irritable when SIL is here and I could never understand why before. She is basically nice and I get on with her. I realise now that I am jealous of her relationship with her mother. Absolutely not her issue but mine. MIL is very good to me and like a mother in many ways but when SIL is here it is like a cold, hard slap in the face that it is not the same. And I will never have that. Just little things like when I go to MILs I end up making my bed up or helping with tea. She has a very hectic life and I life closer so this is inevitable. However when SIl comes my MIL goes out of her way to make the beds up and have meals ready for her and her family.

This is my petty issue as SIL lives a lot further away and does not see my MIL as much as I do so I can understand why it is like this. But I just feel low and like you BOP uncared about. Coming to that realisation is hard isn't it? Ultimately it is liberating in that I can try and move on and stop deluding myself. It also means I owe them nothing.

You are not alone BOP and I am thinking of you

PinkyMinxyPie · 22/12/2009 18:38

Bop as Rosa says you are not alone. I got into a state the other day and started hitting myself in the head. Haven't done that in a long time. My parents are still playing games, trying to wreck our Christmas even though they won't be with us. She raged at my DH becuase he had written the tag on father's gift, not me.

SO DH had riven through the snow to get their presents to them before they went away,wished them a happy Christmas and a safe journey and his reward is a nasty phone message from my mother.

The 'gift'my brother has sent is more like a slap in the face than a present- I walked into another trap there, didn't I. DH says it is a sthough they wait for any opportuntiy to pick something up and throw it at me.

Funny though. He was saying at lunch time, 'maybe you should ring your parents before thye go away'. It was quite funny, because I realised that he was falling into the same hole that I have been in all my life. If I just do something nice for them, show them that I love them one more time, maybe it will be ok. It never works.

Well done for sending the card back.

Chirstmas is really hard, isn't it.

therealsmithfield · 22/12/2009 20:21

Gosh- and I thought it was just me.My shoulders and neck have been incredibly painful again for the last three days. It begun in ernest though last night when I was writing cards for some of 'my old' family - Go figure .
I had been thinking a lot in the last two days about stress and anxiety again and how it affects me. I tip into anger and rage a lot. Again (like you Bop) I hear the voice of my mother, looking over my shoulder and goading me. 'Oh'.. it says.'..haven't you EVEN done THAT yet!' that spiteful spiteful voice that never lets up.
My ds seems to get the brunt. Problem is he triggers me because Im seeing her.
I know logically it is his age that makes him appear (at times) self absorbed, self gratifying, and often never satisfied but still subconciously I see 'him' but I hear 'her'. The relentless 'What about ME ME ME' neediness that buggered up my childhood good and proper.

God its so bloody hard going isnt it.

Pinky- That is just the kind of thing my db would say.

BopTheAlien · 22/12/2009 22:05

Thank you all so much for responding and letting me know I'm not alone in feeling like this. Things did actually start getting better after I posted - and it saved me from ringing DH at work and weeping down the phone at him so that was good - but then they escalated again in the afternoon and I too ended up hitting myself in the head, Pinky . It's awful isn't it, it's like it's so painful and crazy inside you've got to let it out somehow. Better than screaming at DS I suppose, but not much. It is those evil voices that just attack endlessly - the ones in my head swear really badly, which my parents didn't do although my brother did - it's just a torrent of abuse, you stupid fucking c*, you wanker, you should be dead and so on. My therapist says that means that although they didn't use those exact words, that was the energy or feeling behind what they did say, endless insults and criticims, like you said about your mother smithfield. And yes smithfield you're bang on there, we see our horrible parents in our own precious children - like you say in a 2 yr old that behaviour is normal and necessary but because of where we come from it's sometimes unbearable, and I think that the way my history affects my treatment of him and my relationship with him sometimes tears me up more than anything else. But I am trying so hard to break through this and I will keep trying until I damn well crack it. Thanks again all, DH has finished work now for the hols so hopefully things will ease up a bit. If I dare say that.

PinkyMinxyPie · 22/12/2009 22:23

Glad you are feeling a bit better, Bop.

Well I've just opened my Christmas present frommy mother (and father, though he never has anything to do with present buying etc).

It's framed reprints of my dead grandparents.

Glad I didn't save it til Christmas morning.

Not sure what to make of it.

BeginningAnew · 22/12/2009 22:27

Message withdrawn

BeginningAnew · 22/12/2009 22:30

Message withdrawn

therealsmithfield · 23/12/2009 08:16

Its also about having a more balanced view of ourselves than 'they' gave us. This is also the same mummy (BA) who cried when she rubbed cream into her daugters skin when her excema was bad, wrapped her and carried her in a sling on her back when she was sick, and danced with her just a few days ago. That to me is a picture of a very loving mother, something your mother could never claim to be. I dont think you'd have any such memories from your own childhood? Your mother has therfore failed miserably. Ha to the ol bitch
Nobody is perfect. And that 'is' Ok. (this is a note to self by the way!) Simple statement but I have trouble with it nonetheless. Probably because there is parts of myself I want to reject because I deem them unloveble 'imperfect'. Just like she did. She saw things as black and white, so it follows I do too.

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